"You have to do a lot of talking. I'm good at talking." · 12:18am Feb 7th, 2017
There was some writing advice I'd heard, I can't quite remember it. Something about how a dialogue scene should be doing 2 things at once. I can't remember it. I tried to search for the quote on google, but instead all I got were clickbaity lists of "X writing tips" or "Y mistakes to avoid". They were all disappointing. Is this really how other people learn?
The non-lists were possibly worse. "Motivation-Reaction Units"? MRUs? what the....? 
Even in reviews and feedback on Fimfic I see the same terms tossed around. Talking Heads Syndrome, Saidisms, As You Know Bob, Character Voice. None of this necessarily wrong, but still so vague. Buzzwords that point out common mistakes.
This is why I wish I could find that exact quote, which at least tries to provide a path to follow. I still found it a little confusing though. What 2 things am I supposed to do? Am I following a checklist?
I talked about Skins a few posts ago, and since then I've compulsively been rewatching it multiple times. The scene in episode 2 where Cassie talks to Sid in the cafeteria is a popular favorite, but I started noticing how cleverly it works into the structure. There's a lot of obvious points here, such as revealing Cassie's character and her eating disorder, as well as being charming and funny, but the strengths of this conversation scene is what it's doing subconsciously. I feel I've learned more from studying this clip over and over, trying to figure out why it works, than any random internet advice.
(most of the scene is uploaded here, though I'm not sure if the full impact makes sense without the surrounding context. I'll try to explain it anyway.)
First thing is, Cassie has a clear reason to talk to Sid; she needs to tell him that this guy who really hates him has his ID card. Yet she doesn't bring this up at all at first. She hints at it during her magic trick, and doesn't directly say it until they're interrupted and Sid's already gotten up to leave. The dialogue doesn't only exist to advance the plot, but it's not entirely pointless chit-chat for pleasure either. It develops naturally, without being too obviously one purpose or the other.
(I'm reminded of a lot of poor Tarantino imitators who think having characters talk about random trivia will make their story into the next Pulp Fiction. He writes entertaining conversations for sure, but there's always clear reasons for the characters to talk about these things.)
Second thing is that it serves as character (re-)introduction. Sid has barely appeared in the episode so far, and this re-establishes what we need to know about him. Particularly the lines about Tony.
Cassie: You love Tony. You always talk about him.
Sid: ...Do I?
Cassie: I mean it's cool you've got someone to look up to.
Coincidentally, episode 3 has a very similar scene to introduce Sid again.
Jal: Is that all you do, Sid? Hang out with Tony?
Sid: Pretty much. Oh, and Michelle too.
Jal: Yeah, Michelle. *scoff*
Episode 4 does it again in Chris's bedroom, but I better not quote what they say here.
Cassie sympathizes with him. Jal thinks he's pathetic. If you missed episode 1, now you know Sid. If you've been watching since the beginning, you're not given redundant knowledge, but new context of how the other characters relate to Sid's relationships. In both cases, it's not that relevant to the current episode, but it'll pay off in a huge plot point later in episode 5. Drilling it into your head by repetition, without being boring.
I'm reminded of some debates I saw over Star Wars: Roger One, about how it makes little to no reference to the original movie's setting and mythos (I HAVEN'T WATCHED IT). Casual viewers might be lost, but fans argue that it's targeted at passionate fans who aren't seeing this in a vacuum. They don't need a recap or explanation, because they know everything by heart. Blatant recaps are boring, right?
I think I disagree with this approach. Good writers can introduce an episode to new viewers, and do it invisibly. I pointed out before how every episode of MLP does this, with the intro scene before the title song. Later seasons have more complicated plots, requiring more recap and foreshadowing, but it's very clear in season 1 where the characters were the main focus. Rainbow teaching Fluttershy to cheer, Rarity and Fluttershy at the spa, Pinkie Pie working too hard to entertain her friends with invitations. You learn how the characters act, as well as their relationships to each other, and their differences. It's not boring or distracting to established fans, because you're learning new things too.
Speaking of differences, that's the third thing I noticed about Cassie's scene. Contrasts between characters and behviors. Sid and Tony are polar opposites, from the food they eat to their academic drive. Cassie distracts everyone with smiles and lies, but opens up the truth to Sid. Everyone is polite yet patronizing toward Cassie, while Sid speaks directly and honestly to her. The human brain loves finding patterns and differences, even when not actively thinking about it. That's what makes the difference between boring chit-chat, and dialogue where the brain can't help but pay attention. We learn about the characters without having to be told everything directly.
And those differences lead me to the fourth point. This is important character progression. At the beginning, we already know Cassie is friendly towards Sid, but it's more like sympathy for a fellow unpopular misfit. By the end of the scene, she's starting to have a serious crush on him. In his moment of unguarded honesty he tells her that he cares. And she knows it's not calculated pity to avoid upsetting her, like everyone else does. When Tony interrupts the scene, they subtly defend each other from his insults, though they didn't have to. Through the course of the scene, it's clear to follow why Cassie's feelings have changed. She starts falling in love precisely because Sid treats her differently, while forcing her to confront the problem she keeps running away from. It's not teenage lust or love-at-first-sight, but the beginning of genuine romance.
Too bad Sid doesn't notice it himself. 
This has been self-indulgent, and it's just one little scene, but I really did learn a lot from trying to organize my thoughts on this. I love this show's writing.
I believe the traditional advice is that dialogue should be both advancing the plot and revealing character.
4412085
there we go!
I still think it's vague.
4412092
Well that's why most writing guides tend to offer examples... much like you're doing here
4412094
yeah well those don't even count. because I don't know how to read.
Whenever I try to figure something new out and all the search results I can find are those; it's so totally crushing and demotivating, because it doesn't give me any idea of how to start. I need more video game style tutorials that handhold me through every step –once I've actually done something it starts being way easier to figure out what worked and what didn't and how to improve, I think. (...and ironically, less of those in actual video games.)
I think the secret solution to this is that other people just don't learn, though.
I agree this is seriously underrated, yeah. I cringe whenever I see someone criticize an opening descriptor of a pony in a fic, because "we all already know who Twilight is, geez" or whatever. I know it's meant as earnest advice, but that makes it all the more insidious. Re-establishing character elements is good form, because it stresses what information is important for the audience to know for a story to work, even if strictly speaking they already know it. Plus, with how sprawling and headcanon-y and filled with alternative characterizations that people don't even realize are alternative, it's hard to say what's even going to be true about a canon character in any given work around here, nowadays.
With how you've talked up this series, I really want to enjoy it, but, uh, just going by that clip I'm not sure I can get through the teen british production values and acting.
Plus I just never get around to watching even things I really want to watch anyway... time management is hard. 
4412370
Hrmm, now there's an idea.....
Welcome to FimFiction, You Suck
I don't have the credibility/horsefame to even try that though.
Oh right. That's completely true. and with certain fandom-created characters like Lyra or Derpy, one can get a lot of frequently asked questions out of the way up-front.
oh, whew. I'm terrified that someone I respect will actually listen to my recommendations. then they'll have to come back and say, "Haze, you were wrong. That show sucked!" and I'll feel awful for wasting their time.
.... I think all my friendships have traumatized me
4412477
well, there's no way you respect me, so even if i end up wasting my time you'll be safe, right?
It's not like I haven't given out my own share of misaimed recommendations, though, so don't worry. (Sometimes they're not even on purpose!!)
I've never heard of skins, I must have missed that blog post.
Dialogue is tough, but it can really convey a lot. My personal analogy for it is that it's like an unrehearsed dance. It's social, self-expressive, and each person is trying to impress/put their best foot forward, or cover parts of thelselves. I think that's why people who imitate Tarantino fail. They forget dialogue is about the people speaking, not what's in it.
4412085 That's probably what hazey was thinking of, but I'll plug one of my old posts as well. One key idea there, which was not mine, is that a dialogue must have at least two motives, because it must have at least 2 characters talking, and they both need a motive to be talking. It's tempting to write dialogue thinking only of why the protagonist needs to have this talk, but the other person needs a reason, too.