The Killing Joke and Horse Carts - OOC? · 2:42am Aug 8th, 2016
So, I watched the Batman: The Killing Joke movie that recently came out last month. Being a big Batman fan, and overall DC fan, I of course have nitpicks of it. However, I was surprised to see what many other fans thought of the film. Now, fair warning before I continue, there will be spoilers for The Killing Joke and the recent episode of MLP. You've been warned.
Now, the main thing that people have problems with is that the characters seem to be a little out of character in The Killing Joke. The thought of characters being romantically tied to each other was apparently off putting for a lot of other watchers. I had always assumed Barbara was under the age of 18 during "Batman: The Animated Series" - same as Robin - so the sight of seeing her and Bruce Wayne getting it on is a little strange, but I wouldn't consider it out of character for there to be a connection once she was older. I've always assumed she had a thing for Bruce.
It's the same way that the recent episode of MLP went, where Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash seemed to be out of character for a lot of people. Not listening to their younger 'sisters', working too much for their own selfish goals, forcing themselves to do everything - it all seemed out of character for a lot of people.
However I believe neither events are out of character. Bruce's desires for sexual intimacy always seemed to be tied to whenever a female character was interested in something else. Whether that's a person, items, or feelings, it can always be stemmed back to the woman dealing with something other than Bruce. When it happens to Barbara, it's no surprise to me that he wants to hold on to her, and that's really the only way he knows how with women.
For the adult sister ponies, they have a strong desire to win, all of them do. It's within their personality to do so, more than Fluttershy, Twilight, or Pinkie have. They've had several episodes depicting it for Applejack and Rainbow Dash - especially the episode where they compete against each other. They've also had it for Rarity, which is why I think she fits great in this role especially. While the 'sad' memory of her losing is reason enough for kids that watch this show, I think for continuity this memory adds a lot to previous episodes like the one with Suri Polomare. Rarity has the desire to win, just in a different mind set.
Now, I also think there is an emotional reasoning behind their out of character behavior - because we, living humans, are also out of character some times. You and I act a certain way at all times around certain people, that's just called being human. Now, add in an emotion such as anger, excitement, or jealousy and you will most certainly have a different way to act. This is true for animated characters too. Batman, while known for his devoid of emotion, still feels them and acts upon them sometimes. The same with the adult ponies, their excitement has them ignoring and not listening to their younger sisters.
I feel out of character is an excuse used too often, especially in fan fiction and especially in critiques of newer material from old franchises.
To tie it all up, I think the most important thing to detail is the final scene of The Killing Joke, where Batman and The Joker are standing together laughing. This shows Batman still has emotions, he just hides them very well. He can't help but laugh at the stupid joke, after everything that's happened, because he's still that hurt little kid that wants his childhood back. The want drives all these characters, even if it stems off into something we, the viewer, see as out of character.
Oh, and for what I thought about The Killing Joke as a movie? I enjoyed it, except for that ending scene. The ending really made me hate it and love it at the same time. This is because I see it as The Joker winning. Batman, the character devoid of emotion, laughs at a joke. This is basically the equivalent to Superman killing someone (and I'm not talking about the horrid live-action Superman, let's just not even acknowledge those). For Batman to laugh, he's failed. He's shown emotion to a villain, something his whole career he's been preventing - even so much to tell Barbara not to cross that line.
So, yes, I much prefer animated superheroes to live-action. Especially because it can utilize the sweet, raspy voice of Mark Hamill.
~TheTimeSword
The scene with Barbra and Bruce was added thanks to Executive Meddling because the idea of Barbra being used to drive Jim insane was 'sexist'. And I REALLY wish I was making that up. Let's ignore the fact that SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER, just focus on the fact that a female character is being used to drive the story of a male one...
As for the ending, I've not seen the movie myself, but unless they changed things from the comic then Joker Wins IS THE POINT.In the original comic it's implied that Bruce snaps, and kills him at the end, because otherwise it would never end. Joker's final punchline, the fact that he knows he's sick, and no longer cares. Joker would never change, and things would only get worse. This pushes Batman over edge. media.comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/the-killing-joke-final-page.jpg The Killing Joke may be Joker's obituary, but it's also his Magnum Opus. The laughter stops, the lights go out, and Batman is finally "Not So Different".
This implication is confirmed by both Alan Moore himself, who never intended for Killing Joke to be part of the continuity, and Grant Morrison. Many people have argued with it, but the fact is THE AUTHOR is the one who's made it clear, Batman finally snaps, and the difference between him and his rogues no longer exists. That's the punchline of Killing Joke, Joker Was Right.
4138965 Yes, I've read the comic. They did indeed change it in the movie, as it's not implied at all that Bruce snaps or kills The Joker. If they had done that, I would have leaned more toward liking it rather than a split 50/50 of hating and loving. It reminded me more of an episode of Scooby-doo, where the gang is standing around the villain laughing.
As for The Joker winning, I personally never felt that he won in the comic. It was more of, they both lost or became equal. Something they failed to capture with the movie.
4139051 WHAT?! Ok then, not worth my money to buy it then. I'll snag a torrent and be done. That was the entire point of Killing Joke...