Musings: My Motivations · 5:09am Jul 22nd, 2016
Schorl's explanation for her actions sure were interesting to read – and her essay made me realize that I might need to spell out my own motivations more clearly as well, just to disspell some false ideas some people might have about them. Of course, I had the privilege to read her essay in advance, which means the same caveats apply to my text as well – it was written before knowing any reactions and can't take them into account, and so on. There is one sentence in her explanation in particular that made me think I owe you all a more detailed explanation of my reasons.
"If you are some FoE-hating jackass that sees what I’ve done as some “great victory for the forces of good”, then shut up and shove off, because you’re just as full of shit as a guy who declares that all women should be treated like fuck toys in the real world, and I’ll tolerate you just as much."
I'm not going to talk about that comparison itself, but rather talk about how I understand Schorl's intentions, and then use this as a starting point for talking about my own intentions, both for being a Post-Fall member and for giving Schorl's plan my support.
First of all, Schorl has a thing for being seen as the villain, and I don't see why we shouldn't grant her this wish. But that aside, I think her main point is that we mustn't misunderstand her reasons for doing what she did. Schorl did not do this because she hates the setting's themes, and she most definitely didn't do it because of some kind of moral indignation. After all, she has her own setting with similar themes, and she wants to continue writing FoE stories with these themes as well.
I think what this is about is perspective. In-universe, the defeat of Dainn, the destruction of the Crystal Heart, and the restoration of the principality are of course good things, also in a moral sense of the term – I'm fairly certain Schorl also agrees with me on this. However, to paraphrase a quip from enne: If you need a reminder that there is a difference between fiction and reality, you are part of the reason why this sentence exists. Just because Schorl's ending is a "good" ending, that doesn't mean her betrayal of non_creepy_nickname is "good" in a moral sense. She still earned NCN's trust by false pretense, and then lied to him and many others for years just to strike a blow at him.
Taking this setting seriously in the sense of believing it needs to be destroyed by any means necessary is no less silly than taking it seriously in the sense of believing it would be a good idea in real life. A certain feeling of moral indignation in the first few moments after discovering FoE's existence is probably simply a natural reaction, but I believe it is also something that needs to be worked through and overcome. Most importantly, I think any demands for censorship or for destroying or taking down FoE completely are fundamentally misguided. This might be the result of my own academic roots in psychoanalysis, but I believe that the sublimation of sexual desire by fantasy is in general more healthy than its repression – not only, but particularly if this repression is forced from the outside. I also believe that my own experiences with the setting over the last few years confirm this idea. Working through the setting helped me deal with a few of my own issues, and the new version of Freeville Chronicles will reflect this at some points.
That said, I don't even think about this matter in moral terms any more, and at least in some sense, I never really did. Even during the time of my depression, in the first two months after finding FoE, I never wanted to bring down or destroy the setting. I saw it as something I had to find a way to work through and deal with on an individual level. When it comes to my decision to keep Schorl's plan a secret and even help her with it, the question whether her plan was morally justified or reprehensible wasn't really a question I asked myself. For me, it was more a – for lack of a better term – political decision than a moral one. Of course, the fact that Schorl Tourmaline had become a friend over the months before I figured out her plan, and that I had given her my word not to reveal it, while NCN had essentially declared me an unperson, certainly helped my decision. But the main point is that Schorl and I simply saw the same issues with the setting, and our goals for it were also the same for the most part. The fact of the matter is that in the end, I'm far less morally offended by FoE than I am intellectually offended by it – but then again, I'm the kind of guy who secretly wants to be like Littlefinger from Game of Thrones and gets a kick out of reading George Orwell's 1984 about once a year. Unlike Schorl, I don't see myself as a villain, but I'm also clearly not a paragon of virtue either. In retrospect, I don't fully understand why I reacted so strongly to FoE at first.
Another reason is that I also simply agree with Schorl Tourmaline's diagnosis: the one big problem of the setting is NCN and his bone-headedness. I never wanted to harm FoE, but I did want to strike a blow against NCN’s control of it. Originally, my own plan was more or less the exact reverse of hers. My plan was to create a group of counter-contributors who would work together and eventually weaken NCN's grip over the setting from the outside, while Schorl's plan was to blow up NCN's group and show his incompetence from the inside. Her plan was the better one, obviously.
Now don't get me wrong. I didn't just see Post-Fall or its community as merely a means to an end. But as I said already, I also never saw FoE hate, as in hate against FoE's very existence, as the point of Post-Fall anyway. I believe that Post-Fall stories, i.e. stories where the caribou lose, are a possibility inherent to the setting, and one that simply begged for being explored. Similarly, I also believe that the wish to see the caribou lose is a natural reaction to FoE. But that aside, the division between core fans and Post-Fall fans was deliberately fabricated by NCN to begin with. By censoring possibilities that were inherent in the setting and ostracizing people for wanting to explore them, NCN divided the fandom into red collars and black collars for no other reason than as a means of control – and those who use Post-Fall as an outlet for merely destructive FoE hate play into his hands. (Of course, that doesn't mean that I think people shouldn't express their disdain for FoE. As I said earlier, I think sublimation is a better way of dealing with emotions than repression.)
In this sense, Post-Fall is a necessary, immanent part of FoE itself – and in some sense, it could be seen as the more authentic FoE. Now that Bruised Apples will probably not be canon any more as far as NCN is concerned, and that it effectively fits all criteria of Post-Fall, it could be argued that there is not a single really good canon FoE story any more. The good FoE stories are all Post-Fall stories: Bruised Apples; Ekhidna's Judgment; O's Though Hell Should Bar the Way, and so on. I hope my own story will eventually fit into this list as well, but I leave this to my readers to decide. Of course, one reason for this is that NCN's grip on the canon stories effectively prevents the authors from doing anything interesting with the setting, as Schorl already mentioned in her essay, whereas Post-Fall authors didn't feel this restraint and could therefore explore the possibilities of the setting more freely. I will release an essay about a few concrete examples of the negative influence of NCN's meddling with Bruised Apples soon, with Schorl's permission.
Of course, now that Schorl has created an opening by demonstrating the weakness of NCN's grip on the setting, the task of reconstructing it still remains. Schorl and I will both continue to write stories in the setting, as will Rylasasin and others. In the end, the best thing to aim for is probably a variety of different styles and settings, from parody and light-hearted fetish silliness to darker, more dystopian stories like Bruised Apples. My own story will be somewhere in the middle, having some very light-hearted scenes, but also touching on some of the setting's darker themes. Now that NCN's grip is weakened, we can hope that more people will explore the possibilities of the setting more freely. We might get a few more good stories out of it – maybe even a few stories who transcend the two rather narrow categories of FoE and Post-FoE.
I hope this clears a few things up.
Addendum: There is one person I feel I owe an apology to.
Akinyi, I asked you for permission to use Deepest Desire in my story, but I left you in the dark about Schorl's plan. I couldn't have told you, for obvious reasons. I'm genuinely sorry for that. I hope it won’t endanger your friendship with <name redacted>. It is the last thing I would have wanted.
So, she trusted you enough to know, hm?
Well, this does clear some things up, though I knew most if it as it were.
Just one thing I want to note here: The initial divide between Post-Fall and Fall wasn't NCN's pitch. It wasn't meant as an exile, either. It was a thing both sides applauded. That it became centred around fighting FoE as a whole... Well, there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg issue.
And I do really mean that. Not saying the main group didn't have some serious problems. I've disagreed with how things have been handled in FoE, I've argued on your behalf, and I still think booting folks just for writing Post-FoE stuff is stupid. Maybe that's where things started getting really hostile. I wish that practice never happened.
That said, Schorl deserved to be booted. As much as I love her stories and have worked with her in the past, as much as I don't want to think like this... What she did was kinda sh*tty.
4105911
Yes, but you have to understand that I initially figured out her plan by myself (with a little bit of help from Rylasasin). Over a year ago already, as a matter of fact. You know I read Bruised Apples over and over again in 2015, and studied it very closely, and after Seeing Red, it clicked. The pieces fell into place. I remembered how Big Mac wrestled the warbeast, and how Schorl brought up the fact that he had pulled an entire house once, and a few other things. And then I had to think of the fact that he would face Dainn soon.
I didn't get all the details right, but the rough idea of it. It was me who confronted her, not the other way around, and she admitted to it only after I had explained my theory about what she would do at length. To be honest, the video about Superman's World of Cardboard speech you linked to me in the Sacred Order group might also have given me an idea. You couldn't have known about this, so it was purely by chance.
That said, I agree that the removal of Schorl's stories from the Main group folders was both expected and absolutely appropriate. When it comes to NCN banning Schorl from the group, I think that was a strategical mistake on his part - but I may be wrong.
4105921
Heh, well, you get serious props for figuring this out in advance.
4105933
Thanks.
4105921
You know what's interesting? I kinda think the opposite.
Other than Bruised Apples, her stories fit the FoE mould perfectly. That's part of why this stunt came as such a surprise. Deleting them from the main folder is a mistake since it's fuelled by the author's actions but directed at the stories; that is, unless Schorl decided to take them from FoE, which she absolutely has the right to.
But keeping her in the group wouldn't have worked. She left a lot of folks very bitter over there. Nobody would've wanted to work with her after that. Nobody would've felt they could trust her. And she kept picking fights with folks. From what's said and what I saw myself, very ugly fights.
No team can take this kind of climate for long and not suffer.
Addendum: I peek into Post-FoE now and again (I have no idea why) and I get a sense Schorl is indeed getting the kind of celebrations by the sort of people she expressed some very negative opinions about in her explanation chapter. Irony.
4105963
Interesting perspective. You may have a point.
As for your last point: Sure. That was to be expected.
Tarvoc already knowing Schorls plans. Tarvoc, are you a James Bond villain?
4105983
One final note, perhaps: In her explanation chapter, Schorl promised she would keep writing FoE stories.
FoE stories. Not Post-FoE.
Maybe she doesn't see a difference and every story will be in the vein of Bruised Apples from now on... Or maybe some will be more akin to every other Fall-related story she published so far. And if that were the case, I wonder how the folks at Post-Fall will square this circle.
4106082
Well, from what I understand, Bruised Apples will still be canon for all of Schorl's other stories. But even Bruised Apples focused more on typical FoE elements than on typical Post-Fall elements. She does like FoE's kinks, and I'm fairly certain she will continue to write stories that make liberal use of them. She gave me some general ideas about some of her story ideas, but I don't know exactly what she has planned.
4105963
I agree here. Going only by the world Schorl presented, and not by her choice to emphasize certain aspects of the world like Mac's strength (I forget if his strength was even that emphasized in the story), had the gala scene actually played out, it would have been nigh impossible for what happened at the end of Bruised Apples to have actually happened. I know it's weird talking about what would actually happen in a fictional world, but the idea is that if you removed the author's meddling, which is seen in the gala scene as just sheer amounts of stupid good luck on the part of Big Mac and AJ, and were able to run the scene through many times, only rarely would you be able to produce the ending that we got.
I think Schorl even explicitly admits this in her explanation, that since the ponies got themselves into this mess by holding the idiot ball, it would only be fitting for them to get themselves out by doing the dumbest thing at that time, i.e. Mac strangling Dainn in front of everyone.
4209872
I'm not sure if I agree with this, but at least it should be pointed out that non_creepy_nickname agreed to everything in the first six Gala chapters that came before the killing itself.
4209872
I more or less put Bruised Apples out of my mind by now. The hassle isn't worth it.
4209938
I still don't fully understand your reaction. Sure, Schorl used the ending to cut her ties with NCN, and I understand that you feel betrayed by the way she did it, but I can't see how that diminishes the story itself. I remember a time when we had long conversations and debates about the newest chapters, and I remember that you enjoyed them just as much as I did. I know it's more complicated than that, but did the ending really change that much? After all, one can still be a fan of Schorl's stories and NCN's setting. I would like to have these conversations with you again, Derpsby. Maybe when Schorl starts releasing her next story about Trixie...?
But I understand if you need time. If you want to talk to me again eventually, you can do so any time.
4209953
Yes, we did, didn't we? In the end, though, your interpretation is more accurate, considering the overall path the story's taken.
I actually don't know what's in the very last chapter. I can't read it. In fact, even looking at the pictures having to do with it isn't fun anymore. Whenever I try, it just reminds me of how it became an elaborate "F*CK YOU", how people flocked to it and jeered and crowed and celebrated like it's a decisive blow in the war to kill the setting and how they could finally make it hurt and...
/Sigh
This has only little to do with the story's quality, if any. It's still got my upvote, because it's still good. But it's not in my faves anymore, because that would've been a lie. For now, I would rather fill my time with something else.
It's not a very rational reaction, is it? I'm sorry for the trouble it's causing.
Incidentally, the above is also why I'm hesitant to join the Clocktower Society group. Normally, I'd jump at something like it, but... the tone so far has been so holier-than-thou...
4211601
There still seem to be quite a few people who misunderstand Schorl's intentions. She said in her explanation that she doesn't want to kill the setting, and will continue to write stories in it, with the usual themes. Schorl did her thing to get back at non_creepy_nickname, and I think she had good reasons for being upset about him.
If I understand you correctly, Schorl took away the light-heartedness of the setting for you. Maybe that's also where our outlooks differ. To me, Fall of Equestria never was a light-hearted setting to begin with.
It might not be exactly in line with your interests either, but maybe you'll eventually give Freeville Chronicles another chance. I remember that you had quite a bit of fun with Star Charmer's antics in the old version, and while I haven't introduced her yet (she'll be introduced in the next chapter), by now I have quite a few other new, quirky characters you might like, particularly Shadow Amethyst and Deepest Desire, maybe also Ivana.
4212232
No, that's not really the problem. Most FoE stories are deathly serious, canon or no. What's bothering me is that, as you said, it became a vehicle to get back at someone. A real person. It was done to be hurtful, and in an underhanded manner; at least the regular Post-FoE stuff is open and up front about what it intends to be. The sheer glee about it that followed sealed the deal. That why even the associated pictures feel upsetting now. It's... I don't know.
It's not even like I don't understand why she did it. You've read Thtiger's plans to include the Clocktower Society into his works, right? After going over some of the posts there, I was actually imagining how things would play out if the Society's leadership happened to be made up of... well, judgemental ponies. But that's not his vision, and I don't know if I want to be the kind of person who goes behind his back and does it anyway.
Honestly, this is probably me just being a thin-skinned idiot. If it keeps me from some very nice things just because I'm too wrapped up in this lingering resentment, you should not feel bad. I don't know if you do, of course, but if so, please don't. It's on my head. Let's just hope I get it out of my system quickly!
4213485
When it comes to Bruised Apples, I'm not sure if it's even about getting back at a person. If NCN wasn't so hell-bent on forcing his vision onto everyone whenever possible, even where it really doesn't make much sense, while at the same time trying to censor whatever doesn't fit his ideas, this might not have happened. I may be wrong, but from what I understand, it was more about subverting his position.
But then again, Summer in Equestria was a more direct attack against Twipet as a writer. I won't deny that Schorl can be spiteful. I think her critique of the shortcomings of Sun's Setting are spot-on, but maybe there could have been another way to present it. But tnterestingly enough, Schorl showed Summer in Equestria to NCN right after writing it, and he actually said that this was his preferred way of criticism. The only reason he didn't allow Schorl to just publish it back then was because it had females with strap-ons and symbolic female domination and "male" submission (with the male characters being played by female actors), which still didn't fit his own preferences and his ideas for what FoE should be about.