• Member Since 6th Dec, 2012
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Aristagtle


There's always a lever. You just have to find it.

More Blog Posts33

  • 150 weeks
    Freeville Chronicles: A ruin in the forest

    There are a lot of reasons why Freeville Chronicles failed, some of them in-universe and some of them connected to real life events, but the most pronounced in-universe reason is probably the impossibility of its beginning. Some very simple and basic considerations inevitably lead to the conclusion that Freeville and its inhabitants and characters are impossible. They cannot exist for a

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    8 comments · 380 views
  • 196 weeks
    What were my plans for Freeville Chronicles?

    As I mentioned in my last blog post, Taking a Step Back from Fall of Equestria, I had the rest of Freeville Chronicles as well as a rough concept for a sequel mostly planned out. Since I'm likely not going to finish it, but I think it was an interesting concept and possibly would have

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    12 comments · 530 views
  • 198 weeks
    Taking A Step Back From Fall of Equestria - pt. 1: Announcement

    This decision has been a long time coming, but due to recent events, I have an announcement to make. I am taking a step back from my involvement in Fall of Equestria for an unknown period of time. I’m still in the process of determining what exactly that means, and whether it will be permanent or just temporary, and I already have the help of some of my good friends in the fandom in figuring it

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    1 comments · 550 views
  • 270 weeks
    Musings: How to read and understand prophecy and vision in a fantasy story

    “Three crowns had the First King of the stags. One for the sun, a crown of baleful gold. One for the moon, a crown of mournful silver. And one for the earth, a crown of fateful bronze. Three crowns shall the Last King have, too.”
    - Cardinal: Fall of Equestria, chapter 1: Three Crowns, One King

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    4 comments · 440 views
  • 287 weeks
    Outline of the caribou invasion of the Redux

    As promised, here is the outline and time frame of what the caribou invasion would have looked like in the Redux invasion story. Before we provide our own outline and timeline we had planned, I would like to give a quick rundown of non_creepy_nickname’s original timeline, so the problems of it become apparent. This will show how we solved most of them, and also the few issues we weren’t able to

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    0 comments · 544 views
Jul
22nd
2020

What were my plans for Freeville Chronicles? · 2:14am Jul 22nd, 2020

As I mentioned in my last blog post, Taking a Step Back from Fall of Equestria, I had the rest of Freeville Chronicles as well as a rough concept for a sequel mostly planned out. Since I'm likely not going to finish it, but I think it was an interesting concept and possibly would have been a story worth telling, I'm going to give you a rough idea of the concept I had. Instead of going chapter by chapter, I'm going to split this into two parts - one about the main arc about Ari and his personal development, and the other about the sub-plot about Monolith's and Fluttershy's romance. I might provide the ideas I had for the sequel at a later point in time, but for the time being, the plan for my next blog posts is to delve into the published parts of Freeville Chronicles again, analyze them, point out what worked and what didn't, and find explanations for why the story started to feel stale to me. I have no real time frame for this, and in fact, long times might pass between the individual blog posts, simply because of how busy I currently am.

I'll put everything behind spoiler tags, just in case I change my mind and do finish the story after all, and also for all those of you who haven't read through the existing parts yet and don't want them spoilered.

Main story:

In the next chapter of the Ari subplot, Ari and Spring Breeze would have met up with members of the Resistance, including Apple Slice. Notably, Sunset Shimmer would be absent. This was one of the few stumbling blocks for me, actually. While it was important to establish connections between Freeville and other resistance groups, the chapter itself felt really unnecessary and contrived. In fact, in retrospect, I regret including Apple Slice in the first place. She was originally the main character of Aerial_Dash's story Fall of Equestria: Crucibles of the Carrier, where she would have had a brief Amour Fou of sorts with Ari - who at this point still works as Captain of Vestri's guard, subsequently sells Slice out to the caribou, including putting a black collar on her, but then has a change of heart and helps her escape again. Back at the time, I thought Aerial_Dash's story idea was pretty solid, and I already collaborated with them on the story, so I felt it made sense to make this an official part of Ari's backstory. But then Aerial_Dashs's insecurities about their writing started to mount up, and eventually, they pretty much disappeared - and in retrospect, hamfisting Slice into Ari's already established backstory within my own story also felt incredibly forced. As a result, I felt less and less sure about what even to do with this chapter. My editors and I discussed for a long time about what to do with it, and I would probably have ended up cutting it altogether.

One evening, Bruna would have then joined Ari for a night of fun, and would have acted unusually masochistic around him this time. Ari would of course having been skeptical, getting the impression that maybe something isn't quite right, but he would have played along. This part likewise ran into a bit of an issue: It would have worked better if Deepest Desire hadn't already revealed to him that cows are empaths. It's a solvable problem, but it shows once again how difficult it was for me to time and pace everything correctly. I think one of Freeville Chronicles' issues is that from the very beginning, I vastly overestimated my abilities as a writer, and thus aimed for a concept that was simply far too long and complex for my own good. I'll get into that more in later blog posts.

Later in the same night, he would have had a nightmare where he would see himself as an Emperor, presumably ruling over Equestria and having enslaved most of his own people while putting ponies and a few caribou close to him into positions of power. Everyone in the dream would have been a twisted version of his real-life friends and acquaintances, with Spring Breeze turning into a hyper-dominatrix pretty much enslaving Baldr for real, Star Charmer turning from a brat into a bit of a doormat towards him, and Bruna turning into an Empress with a sadistic streak towards her slaves - actively asking him to teach her how to take away other people's "levers" for their own amusement. Ari would have gone on torturing a good few others of his acquaintances, including Hrathr and to a lesser extent Gunne, and then he would have seeked out the lowest of his slaves, an albino cow he calls Hermia. I had planned for an excruciatingly long scene of him and later Bruna abusing the poor creature to exhaustion, while at the same time showing Hermia herself as practically worshipping him like a God. Of course, the chapter essentially serves the purpose of finally confirming that the White Cow is indeed real, and of also giving first hints as to her true nature. Ari was also going to wonder if the strange white trees have something to do with his dream, but that was meant as an intentional misdirection - the Everwood have nothing to do with the White Cow.

Eventually, he wakes up, with Bruna still in his arms. Remembering his dream in vivid detail, not unlike the dream he had previous to the story about being tortured by a white-coated demon, it would have caused him an extreme panic attack, with doubts about his own virtue and moral integrity practically pushing him into a full-blown depression. Bruna, immediately realizing that something isn't right, first assures him that it was just a dream, then tries to distract him, and eventually accidentally reveals to him that she can read. This actually manages to catch his attention, since a cow with that level of education is unheard of. He asks her to read one of his books to him, but she tells him that she can't, it isn't the right kind of book. He realizes it's written in Equestrian, and presumes Baldr probably taught her runes. She denies this, and insists that what she can read is a writing system invented by ponies that Baldr started teaching her some time around the Lindisbarne takeover, though one not frequently in use. Ari is highly confused about this and inquires further, eventually revealing that what Baldr taught her is essentially Braille - a writing system based on touch instead of eyesight, designed for blind ponies. Ari begins to realize that the minds of cows place a higher emphasis on touch than eyesight or hearing when it comes to cognitive processes, memory formation and learning - but he also immediately begins developing plans for trying to teach Bruna conventional writing systems by using Braille as a starting point. This new project would distract his mind enough to get him out of his depression.

Eventually, the days of the Grand Galloping Gala arrive, and Ari - being obligated to attend both as Magistrate of Freeville and as Fluttershy's handler - would have travelled to Ponyville first in order to spend a night at Gunne's home, taking Monolith and Fluttershy with him as well. Baldr and Bruna would have likewise accompanied them, though only to Ponyville. While the men would have spent the evening with Gunne, getting somewhat an idea of Gunne's biography, though a more reluctantly given, more vage and less in-detail one than the one he told Big Mac in Bruised Apples, Bruna and Ginna would be locked up together, Bruna using her empathic abilities (which she's now becoming increasingly aware of) in combination with some clever questioning to find out that Ginna is essentially ashamed of being alive and causing her brother so much grief and harm due to the stigma, and that she wishes she was never born. Of course, this is something directly taken from Bruised Apples, where Applejack stumbles into finding out about it practically by accident by being her usually honest and straightforward self around Ginna. Bruna, being a more empathetic person than Applejack, would have found out without causing Ginna to tear up, and would have generally been more suited for comforting her. Later, Ari would have fetched Bruna for the purpose of "taking her to bed with him", and she would have clued him in on Gunne and Ginna in private.

On the next morning, a few hours before the departure, Ari would have come across Gunne taking care of Ginna, complimenting him on his gentleness towards his sister-slave. Gunne comments that he rarely comes across other stags with this sentiment. Ari takes him aside and asks him what she means to him, and Gunne tells him she’s all he has and he wouldn’t know what to do without her. Ari then introduces him to the idea that Ginna is ashamed of even being alive. Offended by this, Gunne shuts off the conversation and says that they need to get going for the Gala if they want to be punctual. After parting with Baldr and Bruna, who return to Freeville, they then deliver Ginna to Big Mac’s farm, with Ari driving the carriage and Gunne and then Big Mac taking place inside, and Fluttershy being stowed away alongside Pinkie and Twilight in the back. Of course, this is also how the first Gala chapter in Bruised Apples begins.

The next chapter or chapters would have taken place at the Gala, switching between Ari's, Monolith's and Fluttershy's perspectives. Of course, Fluttershy is taken away by Gunne along with the other Mane Six for preparation. Ari commands Monolith to keep an eye on her and keep her safe, though not to intervene unless there is actual danger to her life. He then begins to mingle, converse, and search for potential allies, while also handing out tourmaline amulets to any stallion he speaks with. He eventually runs into Shining Armor, and despite Ari's disgust over Shining's current policies, he maintains his masquerade, and the two get into a high-brow, but friendly conversation about the challenges of being in charge over a province of Equestria. Ari manages to convince Shining Armor that the two of them are in fairly similar situations, with him having taken over the task of building an entirely new settlement and province, and Shining Armor being tasked with ruling over a province that only recently reappeared and still needs rebuilding from the devastation left by Sombra's reign. He eventually ends the conversation by handing him a tourmaline amulet just the moment Big Macintosh approaches and ropes Shining Armor into their conversation that can be found in the Gala chapters of Bruised Apples. Ari then makes his way to a tied-up and restrained Luna, trying to communicate to her that he is on her side and that the old Equestrian diarchy has allies even among the caribou - with questionable results, but without causing any incidents.

During the finale of the Gala, Ari essentially acts as an observer to Dainn's death by Big Mac's and Applejack's hands, and then decides to leave the city so as to inform the rest of Freeville of the events. They take a side exit to escape the chaos and then run into Gunne, who is on his own way to an unknown destination. Ari asks Gunne what he's up to, and he replies that he's in the process of fetching shock rods. Ari reminds him of Ginna, of the other caribou's feelings for her and Gunne, and of her own feelings for both him and herself, and then tells him to pick the right side. Gunne says he has thought about it, that he will do whatever it takes to keep his sister safe, and that he has already chosen the right side - and then outright accuses the other stag of being the legendary rebel leader "Ari" that he's heard rumors about (which was already mentioned in one of the earlier chapters of my story). Ari admits to it and then says that one traitor can hardly accuse another of disloyalty. Gunne agrees and they both part and go on their respective ways. Right before leaving the city, Monolith stops Ari and convinces him to let him stay, since he still has business to attend to in the city. Ari gives him permission, and then returns to Freeville on his own. Later, Monolith returns to Freeville as well, bringing Fluttershy with him and revealing that the ponies have won.

A bit later, Luna appears in Spring Breeze's dreams, informs her that she has formed a new provisional government, and that she is aware of the exact nature of the Freeville community, and then tells her that she's going to come to Freeville personally in order to negotiate their surrender. Spring Breeze immediately calls a plenum meeting, where the stags express their wish to surrender unconditionally, but the mares insist on negotiating conditions and eventually outvote them even though some mares vote with the stags.

Luna comes to Freeville along with Twilight and a contingent of Royal Guards, and the mares welcome her, informing her of what exactly has happened here in the course of the last nine months. Luna barely believes it, but her resistance intel confirms it. They then begin their negotiations. Luna demands that a contingent of Royal Guards will be stationed in the castle and that the stags will be confined to Everfree forest, saying that this is necessary to at least officially make Freeville look like a detainment camp. In exchange, Spring Breeze demands that the mares will be allowed to stay there if they wish, to which Luna reluctantly agrees. In a brief scene, Luna also makes it a condition to take Fluttershy back to Ponyville and put her on trial for her collaboration (which we know from Bruised Apples will lead to her semi-acquittal for reason of temporal insanity), and then Monolith's fate is likewise decided. Luna then insists on dreamwalking Ari in a controlled environment for confirmation of his good intentions, but also reveals that it’s also an act of goodwill on Freeville’s part in another way: She wants to get an idea of what caribou dreams are like before she starts weaponizing dreamwalking against the still existing Dainnist hideouts. Ari, not even thinking of the White Cow in that moment and being unable to gauge her real threat level anyway, agrees, and Luna enters his dreams.

Of course, they’re thrown right into the White Cow dream. Ari panics and fears that Luna will immediately see this as a sign of the irredeemably corrupt nature of his psyche, but Luna calms him down and tells him that he should just relax and do what he always does. He proceeds up until the point where he actually meets Hermia, by which point Luna gets extremely nervous all of a sudden, telling him that they’re not technically in his dreamspace anymore, and she only has a very vague idea of what this even is. They then actually meet Hermia, who incapacitates Luna by locking her up in a magical force field, and then starts to play mind games with Ari, trying to convince him to let her kill Luna in dreamspace, let her in completely and then take her to the strange white tree in the forest - presumably so she can force her way in. When he tells her he doesn't need her, she attempts a kind of outright mind-control. Something keeps him from succumbing to it though, with him receiving calming images of both Bruna and a tourmaline stone, and then the White Cow’s spell completely breaks when she’s suddenly distracted. Ari sees her turn into a white mist of some sort, only to be somehow attacked by a similar-looking purple mist, and the two entities seem to be locked in some kind of struggle. Meanwhile, Luna bursts her bubble and tells him to follow her immediately while she cuts off all the links of the White Cow’s realm to the dreams of other stags. They then take the last link back to his own dream before closing it.

They’re thrown right into the White Cow dream. Ari panics and fears that Luna will immediately see this as a sign of the irredeemably corrupt nature of his psyche, but Luna calms him down and tells him that he should just relax and do what he always does He proceeds up until the point where he actually meets Hermia, and Luna gets nervous, telling him that they’re not technically in his dreamspace anymore. They then actually meet Hermia, who incapacitates Luna by locking her up in a magical bubble of some sort and then starts to play mind games with Ari to the point of outright attempted mind control. Something keeps him from succumbing to it though, and then the White Cow’s spell completely breaks when she’s suddenly distracted. Ari sees her turn into a white mist of some sort, only to be somehow attacked by a similar-looking purple mist, and the two entities seem to be locked in some kind of struggle. Meanwhile, Luna bursts her bubble and tells him to follow her immediately while she cuts off all the links of the White Cow’s realm to the dreams of other stags. They then take the last link back to his own dream before closing it.

Waking up again, Ari sees Bruna’s face, feels her hand closed around his, and a tourmaline amulet in her hand. Luna likewise wakes up and explains that she locked up the White Cow with “her own inner demons” inside her own realm. Surprised, Baldr remarks that he was wrong about the trees causing the nightmares, and Luna and Twilight both seem to be interested in learning what he means by that. Then, Royal Guardsponies come in and inform her that a big changeling hive has been found in a cave not far from there, and that they’re in hibernation. They ask her if they should proceed as usual. Deepest Desire then reveals herself and begs them to spare her hive, revealing that she’s found out a safe and less morally questionable food source in the caribou cows - thereby revealing their empathic nature to everyone. Luna finds this increasingly interesting. She decides to include Deepest Desire in the secret treaty, and the chapter ends with the three of them plus Spring Breeze signing it.

Later, Ari is called into Luna’s provisory office for further negotiation. Luna reveals to him that she and Twilight have taken a closer look at how he set up the Freeville caribou community, and she wants to send him to Hornvik to see if he can reform the caribou there. Ari then tries to get Luna to agree to have him and Monolith testify on Fluttershy’s behalf in her court case, but Luna says that the word of a caribou counts nothing now and that Monolith will not be allowed to enter Canterlot. She also assures him that he doesn’t need to worry about Fluttershy - Luna will not allow one of the bearers of the Elements of Harmony to be sent to Tartarus, and has already arranged for her to be declared not guilty for reasons of insanity, and then be sent back to Ponyville into the hands of her friends. Ari asks Luna to at least allow him to take Monolith with him to Hornvik, since he has renewed his oath to protect him. Luna reluctantly agrees, and then out of the blue asks him to show her and Twilight the weird tree Baldr was talking about.

Both of them and Twilight convene at the clearing. Twilight is fascinated to see an Everwood for the first time in her life, and Luna remarks that she wouldn’t have expected to see one so far away from the heart of the forest. Ari then demonstrates his telepathic connection to the tree. With the White Cow now gone, the Everwood net now let him get a glimpse of Ædrasil, the heart of the Everwood net. They then request to be allowed to speak through him, which he agrees to. They then address Luna through his own voice and tell her that it’s good to have a voice again. Luna asks if they’ve chosen him as the Heart, and they tell her that they’re considering him, but haven’t decided yet, and are only using him as Voice for now. Luna promises them to not let them be without a voice again, and then they let go of Ari’s mind again. Luna tells him she has to inform him about something important regarding the origin and destiny of his race.

A month later, we see Ari sharing a train compartment with Monolith and two Royal Guards, with two others stationed outside, in the direction of Lindisbarne, from where they will move to Hornvik. Ari is said to have renewed hopes for the future of his people. This would have then led into the sequel.

Monolith/Fluttershy romance subplot:

The next part of the Monolith/Fluttershy romance would have been their first sex scene, which was another huge stumbling block that effectively crippled me for a year. I just didn't find myself able to write it, which is why I released the last chapter without it. In it, Fluttershy - deeply immersed in caribou ideology for a yet unspecified reason - would have given Monolith a first idea of what she expects from a Master. Monolith would have complied for the time being, but would have voiced clear objections to the idea that she isn't a person - indicating that even servants of the Monolith still have somewhat of an idea of personhood, if distorted. Afterwards, he would have come to Ari for reporting and for advice, getting confirmation that Fluttershy's idea of her place in the world is terribly warped. Unfortunately, Ari himself has no good idea how to handle this, but reasserts his order to come back to him and report regularly, and to take Fluttershy to therapy with Deepest Desire.

In the further course of their relationship, Monolith continues to disapprove of Fluttershy’s self-debasing behavior and communication, and eventually, Fluttershy gets angry at him and accuses him of not taking her seriously. Monolith, being a creature of near-complete stoic rationality, calmly points out the cognitive dissonance between her current behavior and the way she claims to be by nature. Fluttershy, seemingly taking this as her master chastising her for getting angry at him, immediately shifts into a state of complete submission and tells him that if her master wishes her to stop debasing herself, she will do it for his sake, but she needs to be punished for her outburst. The two of them renegotiate their relationship to an extent without even fully realizing it, and then Monolith complies to her demand.

Eventually, Fluttershy runs into Monolith again, who is sharpening his silver dagger. She takes the chance to inquire about what he needs it for, and he says he’s going to use it to kill the dead one. Fluttershy is shocked that he’s planning to kill Dainn, but it is yet another linguistic misunderstanding - he’s actually referring to Strom (or Etadys, depending on which name we would have gone by). He can convince her that the caribou in question is an undead abomination, and Fluttershy is on board with killing an undead lich kept alive by dark necromancy, reaffirming that it's also not her place to criticize the Master's in such matters - another sign that the facade of her ideology is slowly getting cracks and she needs to reaffirm it to herself in order to patch them. Given Fluttershy's reaction, Monolith decides it to be wiser to keep it to himself that he also plans to kill Dainn.

During the Gala, Monolith essentially just follows Fluttershy, resulting in a retelling of parts of the Gala chapters from Bruised Apples from his perspective. After Dainn's death, he convinces Ari that he still has business to attend to in Equestria, and convinces Ari to reaffirm his order to keep Fluttershy safe if possible. Monolith's first action is then to go back and find the Council so as to take them out, but he overhears a conversation by pony guards saying that they were immediately switched by Gunne and thrown into Tartarus by Luna. Finding this account credible, and finding himself unable to follow them to Tartarus, he decides to focus on getting a hold of the Crystal Heart instead - arriving there just in time to see Big Mac smash it to pieces. He then leaves to find Fluttershy. On his way, he runs into guards escorting Strom locked in heavy chains, and a bit of a raffle, he paralyzes them and then rams his dagger into Strom's heart, killing his body and preventing his soul from jumping bodies again, taking him out for good. He then resumes his search for Fluttershy.

Eventually, Monolith finds her in the cells surrounded by her friends. I only have a really vague idea of how this scene would go down, since there’s a lot of conflict here, and the actual conversation between Fluttershy and the other Mane Six is actually missing from Bruised Apples. Here's how I figured it would go down: The other Mane Six (sans Twilight, who still suffers from the aftereffects of the Crystal Heart’s magic) are trying to talk to Fluttershy and to get to her, but she rejects them because she still shares the caribou’s views about females and they vehemently don’t. Monolith, having already stealthily taken out the guards, only wants to keep Fluttershy safe, and he’s not convinced that she’s safe here - but the others aren’t exactly intent on letting her go with someone whom she addresses as Master. I guess he could paralyze them given that they don’t have wings or horns and Rarity still suffers from PTSD, and that Applejack is probably still exhausted. He then takes Fluttershy back to Freeville.

For the next chapter, I had two different ideas. My initial and more well-developed first idea was that back in Freeville, Fluttershy seems completely shattered by Dainn’s death, and Monolith inquires why this is so important to her. Fluttershy tells him that Dainn was the one who brought Equestria the light of male domination. Fluttershy then also remarks to him that she had her world shattered twice in very similar ways within the course of only a year, and he inquires about that. Fluttershy tells him about the days after the Canterlot takeover, how her old world was shattered and how Dainn and Hrathr brought the light of the new world to her. He tells her he believes that this is a psychological crutch she adopted in order to not have to face the trauma of having her world shattered and the feelings of failure. He emphasizes once more that despite her constant efforts, he has not become convinced of her new views in any way. He is willing to continue to act as Master in their relationship for her sake if this truly is what she desires, but she shouldn’t believe for a second that she’s actually as worthless as she thinks or that her feelings and desires don’t matter. My second idea was having Monolith and Fluttershy run into some trouble with wild animals on their way back, and Fluttershy using the Stare to get them out of it, once again making her question her assumptions about gender roles. I guess these two ideas could even be combined in some way.

As we already established earlier, during Luna's negotiations with Freeville, the princess will also demand Fluttershy’s return to Ponyville to await trial for her crimes from the time when Thungrox was her handler. Monolith will be upset about this, which makes her aware of him, which in turn leads to her learning what he is. Even after him explaining his mission and failure to her and swearing that he won’t be able to go back, she still insists on confining him to Freeville and returning Fluttershy to Ponyville. Twilight then says she thinks the Monolith’s mission is a logical contradiction, because it has no termination date for the protection of Ari, and if the Realm really is as dangerous as he says, he can’t possibly keep Ari safe indefinitely and return to the Realm with the Crystal Heart. Luna says that’s impossible, the Monolith does not contradict himself, but Mono begins to act increasingly erratic until he storms off. Luna remains firm in her decision about both Fluttershy and Monolith though.

Monolith then goes to his and Fluttershy’s quarters, finding her there. He tells her that they’re going to return her to Ponyville for trial and that they’ve confined him to Everfree. Fluttershy is shocked and tells him she doesn’t believe she’ll be able to live without him. Monolith reminds her of what he told her about not being worthless, but she says it isn’t about being worthless. He tells her he doesn’t understand what she means. She remarks that he talks in first person, and he just nods. Then, the soldiers come in and take her away.

After awakening from his dream, Ari comes to Monolith’s quarters to see how he’s doing, and finds him sitting in a corner. Ari asks if he plans to go back to the Realm now, to which he shakes his head. His mission has failed - but aside from that, it was inconsistent. He feels no obligation towards this entity anymore, and the Realm is the last place he would go to. In fact, he feels free now like he hasn’t for possibly centuries. Ari asks what his plans are now. Monolith replies that he could just as well remain in his position as Ari’s bodyguard, to which the stag agrees. He also tells Ari that his long-term plans are to get the restrictions lifted and to get together with Fluttershy again.

A month later, he accompanies Ari on his train trip to Hornvik.

So, this should be it for now. As I said, further blog posts with analysis will probably follow, as well as a final blog post with my ideas for the sequel. I think you guys will like that one. But that's it for now. I know it's not the same as getting the actual story, but I hope you guys enjoyed this brief peek into unrealized plans.

Comments ( 12 )

It's hard to spin straw into gold, but you've made a lot of silk purses out of the sow ear you inherited from Creeps. I'm still skeptical of the concept of "good" caribou but for a practical reason. They're already "good" by their standards. No less good than a Yahweh cultist smashing baby heads, a Roman centurian raping and killing Celtic girls and boys, or Inquisitors burning Jews and Roma. They are all "good" by culture, so it's kind of dissonant to see a conventionally good caribou, because that's not how it usually works. But you made a lot out of it and you put plenty of work into it. So you deserve piles of respect and admiration.

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Thank you for your kind words. :twilightsmile:

Yeah, as much as the caribou are undoubtedly evil bastards, my whole idea is better described as a process of cultural change than as one of individual redemption. In fact, one of the gripes I have with my story precisely has to do with Ari already starting out near-perfectly removed from his own culture and then reforming it almost from the outside. That's of course not how it usually works. Normally, the process of people's individual outlooks changing and the process of larger-scale cultural shift aren't that neatly separated from one another, but far more intricately tied together, and they also don't go as smoothly and face internal resistance within the individuals just as much as external resistance from the culture in question. In fact, we can kind of observe that in reality right now, can't we? Of course, there are always vanguard elements that push in a new direction before other people start picking it up (Ari's birth name, Eadgil, means "First Lance"), but even they don't start out completely detached from their cultural roots like Ari did - who, in a way, soars above his culture like an eagle. As a result, my story and characters in a way feel highly artificial, particularly in the earlier chapters - more like they're embodiments of concepts and ideas than fully fleshed-out characters, although I do believe they get better in the later chapters. For the same reason, I consistently failed to come up with a good backstory for Ari. The problem is, I also don't see how I could have done it differently without making people immediately dislike my protagonist. I guess Schorl sorta-kinda managed with Gunne, but Gunne was still the antagonist, and he also never truly became reformed (at least not "on-screen"), he only decided to take the ponies' side at the very end in order to keep his sister safe. But I wanted my story to conceptualize a full cultural shift while also showing that it's possible to write individual caribou characters who aren't completely evil, and that caused issues I was never fully able to overcome. Honestly, if the caribou had been a male-only species, I would probably never even have tried. It's the caribou cows that I believed and still believe deserved better than being dismissed as trash along with their asshole males. I mean just look at this Anti-FoE story and at the comment section, particularly my own conversation with the author - and how he wiggles to justify his protagonist's act of mass murder against innocent victims as totally not a war crime just because the victims happen to be female caribou. It's one thing that has always turned me off from the idea of Anti-Fall of Equestria and from quite a few Post-Fall stories. The caribou were either unceremoniously killed off while leaving the issue of their females completely unaddressed, or in more recent stories (particularly in the vicinity of the Caribou Hunter's Club) were killed off along with their females. When it comes down to it, caribou females are just as much helpless victims as the ponies, they've just internalized their victim status to a higher extent. Killing them off alongside their males doesn't subvert caribou ideology, it plays into it. It's just another instance of Might Makes Right, and that's one of the main reasons why I started Freeville Chronicle in the first place.

5322430
I don't know the history, who invented the White Cow but she is most fascinating to me because she embodies so much that I like to explore. Just to echo that these "blank" caribou cows are the more interesting elements.

In a very interesting sense as I've seen her made she conjures up a lot of elements. For example, I still honestly want to write a horror story about what it would be like to actually live with a "standard, as-intended" cow. Like a Stepford wife meets an excessively obedient hentai girl. To think of it, very much like the Fluttershy you described, and maybe a bit like an episode of The Twilight Zone. As well, The White Cow (perhaps unintentionally) seems to evoke visions of gender treason and excessive monomania and obsession with individualistic liberty that is prescient and applicable to now, with these armed Haircut Karens endangering people and worsening a pandemic because they want to do inadvisable things. She's also sort of badly written in that her treason doesn't hurt her like, say, Serena Joy in "The Handmaid's Tale" who got all she wanted and has to live with it. I don't know that I've seen it specifically but the notion has always tickled me intellectually. Shes like a power bottom and sadist who revels in her own fetish but has the power of a god to ensure others are FORCED to like her fetish too. A good subset of the concept of "Gods with horrid contexts" like The little kid in The Twilight Zone who has all the petulance of a kid and the powers of the divine (like Dainn, really, except childishness is mixed with a begrudging libido.)

You were right. Cows are the better area.

5322532
The White Cow was originally my invention, and I created her for this story.

Your take on the White Cow is pretty radical, but I like it. The concept of "gender treason" is particularly ironic (albeit not wrong) in this context, because when it comes down to it, the White Cow isn't even actually a caribou cow - I'm not sure if I made that clear enough, but she's actually a dream demon, similar to the Tantabus, although embodying the opposite principle (denial of guilt and shame as opposed to the Tantabus' crippling feelings of guilt). I'm not sure if you got that from my description, but Luna locks her away in the end by releasing the Tantabus, who attacks the White Cow precisely because they're similar entities of opposed principles, and then using the distraction to get Ari out of there and cut off the White Cow's realm from the minds and dreams of the stags. And yeah, the White Cow in her "submissive" form is indeed "a standard as-intended" caribou cow, while (not sure if you know this) my actual caribou cows really aren't. In fact, the White Cow is the in-universe subconscious blueprint by which the stags conceptualize their perfect female in my story. Of course, no female can ever actually meet that ideal, not even their own cows.

I do also like your idea of doing a horror story based on that premise; in fact, I think she's kind of already a horror element within the context of my own story. I actually like to think of her as a cultural meme bomb that spreads within caribou culture without the caribou even being consciously aware of her. Of course, there is another, more "material" element to caribou society and caribou culture that is highly beneficial the spread of such a meme bomb among stags - something that makes many male caribou particularly susceptible to a demon of denial at a really young age.

5322564
Then you deserve extra praise. The White Cow is everything I love in an Eldrich Horror and more, because she has so many elements that are enhanced by a self-sustaining oppression factory. Her desire to see other cows subjugated works to influence the bulls who further indoctrinate the children. As puberty hits their sexual desire goes mad, they have all these strong needs and this monster convinces them to give in to things without guilt. This normalized everything from above and below, ensuring the next generation sustains the cycle of abuse and implicitly would support it via harsh, authoritarian means on a distributed system, such as young men being encouraged to bully those who are intellectual, artistic or otherwise perceived as effete. It's brilliant but cruel and you really have made a masterful creature.

I don't know for sure, but I think part of the push to make the sheriff in my Zootopia stories a caribou doe was this. She's a powerful, independent and strong, but fair and even-tempered, doe. She's the stronger partner in an Interspecies relationship with a wolf, and always gets reelected because she gets results. Sure, she's a loose reference to an obscure movie, but I chose to make a caribou reference in the first place just to show the creatures are not irredeemable monsters.

5322608

Her desire to see other cows subjugated works to influence the bulls who further indoctrinate the children.

Suure, indoctrination, yeah that absolutely plays a role too...

Alright, I'm gonna spell it out for you. Gonna put it in spoiler tags because it might be a trigger for some people. I think most or at least many stags have been victims of sexual abuse in their childhood, and they know they'll face additional public shame if that fact ever comes out. It's a necessary conclusion drawn from the caribou's very peculiar combination of Might Makes Right, their ideals of masculinity and their disregard for consent and personal limits, and the fact that non_creepy_nickname and Twipet had the glorious idea to make caribou males bisexual by default - which is in and of itself perfectly fine and in other contexts even a good idea, I also write all my characters as "bi until proven otherwise", but combined with these other, more malignant elements, it leads to rather nasty conclusions about common childhood experiences among caribou males.

5322638
I didn't think it could get worse. But then it got worse. Yikes. That's indoctrination to the extreme. It's also a surprise because I'm more used to toxic masculinity and extreme misogyny being associated with hyperheterosexual cult leader ghouls like the Neo-masculinity of Roosh V or Matt Forney who literally but legally distinctly copies every single thing Roosh does. It always seemed that a slave-owning misogynist character by necessity is so straight they can't even drive on curved roads.

5323365
Yeah, the caribou are kind of unusual. They defy expectations in a few ways that aren't even immediately apparent. The bisexuality of male caribou is one of these ways. From what I've heard, it was Twipet who originally pushed for that idea, but NCN interestingly enough had no objections to it. It is explicitly mentioned somewhere in Sun's Setting, but I couldn't tell you where exactly.

As for the male on male abuse, particularly against young stags, NCN himself wasn't even really aware of the implications of what he had done by making them bi. The premises (might makes right, rape culture, bisexuality) are his own, but the logical conclusion from them was drawn by Schorl Tourmaline, myself, and a few others, semi-independently from each other. In fact, the one story spelling it out most clearly is Cardinal's story (the one my Phallus Sequestria is a parody of) in its depiction of Dainn's rape and abuse by the previous king, Svardagr. Before him, Schorl also hinted at it in her stories Bruised Apples (in how Gunne describes the actions of his father in the chapter The Next Step, although you have to read a bit between the lines because Gunne focuses on his father's treatment of his sister) and Meet Thy Maker (once again with Dainn and Svardagr as the example). In my story, Ari regaining memory of his own abuse after the White Cow's defeat would have been a plot point that I chose not to mention here - one that is unfortunately semi-autobiographic. I also think it's one of the reasons why certain people that you would expect to stay in the fandom sooner or later just leave. Even they eventually manage to stumble upon these unsettling conclusions. In fact, I've pointed this out to people myself and then watched some of them leave without a word a few times.

5323380
I recognize a "Those who walk away from Omelas" moment but this one isn't as clear as most. What revelation in the fandom do you mean? Or did you mean just the Fall fandom when they realize what all the implications are? In that case it makes a lot of sense.

5323827
Had to look up Omelas. Weird to compare that to FoE, but at least you didn't make a shitty Snowpiercer comparison. :pinkiecrazy: I'm talking about a few former FoE fans whom I already mentioned elsewhere as having left.

5323840
It seemed apt. At its core it's a "how the sausage is made" story mixed with realizing what arbitrary abuses are non-negotiable and unchanging to keep everything happy. And the way you described it, once they realized what Fall of Equestria meant, on a big scale, they walked away, which is an appropriate response, so is staying to make something of it. It's why I respect your tenacity.

5324129
Thank you, and the way you put it actually made me laugh. :rainbowlaugh::twilightsmile:

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