Season 5 Retrospective · 11:53pm Nov 28th, 2015
Warning: Season-wide spoilers abound. Proceed with caution.
So, that was fun, wasn't it? I honestly consider this to be the best season so far. Why do I think this? Well, I have a few reasons. And I'd be more than happy to list 'em off to you.
I liked Starlight Glimmer as an antagonist. Her blatant hypocrisy and petty short-sightedness made her somepony I loved to hate. Yes, I know she was redeemed; I don't have a problem with that. But I certainly don't sympathize with her.
I liked how they dealt with the destruction of Golden Oak Library. Well, for the most part. The girls seemed to have turned off their brains when thinking of ways to make Twilight's castle feel more like home. Still, the feels were there.
I liked the insecurities Apple Bloom had to face about getting her Cutie Mark. I think we all were expecting an episode like that to happen sooner or later.
I loved Rainbow Dash going through the grieving process. That scene in her room when she just bursts into tears, wow. It gets me every time. 
I liked Trouble Shoes's conflict. It's an interesting bit of world-building involving Cutie Marks that we haven't seen before.
I liked Tree Hugger, the Smooze, and Discord trying too hard to win Fluttershy's affection.
I liked the redemption of Gilda and the city of Griffonstone in general.
I liked the love letter to the fandom that was the 100th episode. Thank you very much, M.A. Larson.
I liked the ideas they had for Spike's conflict during the Equestria Grand Pony Summit. I just wish the execution was better.
I liked the yaks of Yakyakistan. Say what you will, but there's more to those guys than that one gag where they smash everything.
I adored Moondancer. She really needs a hug. That and a session with Dr. Wolf.
I liked Luna's self-imposed struggle, although I can understand why others did not.
I liked the morals on marketing we learned down at Canterlot Carousel.
I loved Rarity Investigates! Just, that episode in general. If I went through every single thing I liked about it, we'd be here all day.
I liked seeing Coco Pommel again, as well as the moral about the importance of charity work.
I liked seeing another side of Big Macintosh. That guy could use all the characterization he can get.
I loved Diamond Tiara's redemption and the CMC finally getting their Cutie Marks. What a way to celebrate five years of the show.
I liked the extents Pinkie went to just to keep Cadence's secret.
I loved the Pie Family. I honestly can't believe my headcanon was such a perfect fit for them.
I liked Fluttershy trying out Nightmare Night and seeing Angel return to his roots by showing his positive traits. Can we have more of that, please?
I liked Discord actually trying to be friends with the Mane 6. It's just too bad Twilight missed out on the fun.
I liked the feuding antics of the Hooffields and the McColts.
I liked Coloratura and her relationship with Applejack.
And I liked all of the dystopian futures Starlight Glimmer created out of pettiness. I can tell Josh Haber put a lot of thought into all of them.
So, yeah. That's just a few of the reasons why I think Season 5 is the best season so far. True, some episodes were weaker than others, but the good ones far outweighed the bad ones. By an order of magnitude. So, any speculation on what awaits us for Season 6?
I've got a couple of blogs for that.
I know how it feels too.
Apart from Appaloosas Most Wanted, Princess Spike, Scare Master and What About Discord, I would have to agree. Season 5 had a lot less poor episodes compared to all the other Seasons. Crusaders Of The Lost Mark however I think is going to be remembered as the most popular episode of the Season.
3575692 Scare Master was actually perfectly alright in my book. Not one of my all-time favorites, but I liked the direction they took with having Fluttershy try Nightmare Night and decide she doesn't like it. Oh, and we got to see the positive, supportive side of Angel Bunny again. That's always a plus.
Appleloosa's Most Wanted, Princess Spike, and What about Discord? all had major flaws holding them back; on that I agree. Appleloosa's Most Wanted was very bare-bones and pedestrian, Princess Spike was far too contrived, and What about Discord? had abysmal pacing.
For me, season 5 has been roughly 70% amazing and 30% not so much. On the whole, season four is still my favorite season overall, followed by season one, with seasons two and five kinda...tying for third.
I will admit I haven't seen much of S5.
I agree that Starlight Glimmer was an exceptional villain, made all the scarier by being a mortal pony. I understand why they redeemed her, execution or imprisonment for treason wouldn't fit well for a series meant for preteens. Oh well, that's why we have fan fiction and headcanons.
What's telling is what's missing from the list. I get the feeling that someone high up would very much like to write Twilight out of the show, and that Starlight's redemption is a vehicle for that.
3575960 I highly doubt they're gonna go that route, mate. It's true that we didn't see as much of Twilight as we did in previous seasons, but she still had plenty of good moments this time around. Especially Amending Fences.
3575975 Amending Fences, good as it is, was also an extended put-down. As were The Hooffields and McColts (to be fair, Rainbow Dash didn't exactly come off excellent in her map episode either), Party Pooped, and especially What About Discord. Twilight's best moments this season all revolved around her being asleep: the humor of Castle Sweet Castle, the competence of Princess Spike, and the counseling of Do Princess Dream of Magic Sheep (a divisive episode, albeit one I liked). If part of Season 6 is supposed to be Starlight learning the magic of friendship - and I have my doubts, since it looked like they were going to run with that thread for Discord at the end of Season 4, but didn't really follow through - then Season 5 did a spectacular job of showing that she hasn't got a qualified teacher.
I suppose this is how Applejack fans felt in Season 2, or Rarity fans in Season 3, so it's entirely possible that my fears are baseless. Then again, the staff never added outright expies of those characters to the main cast. And things get scarier when you take Friendship Games into account, because the staff proved they can write a perfectly serviceable story with another character in Twilight's place.
3576048 First of all, I don't know what expise are.
Secondly, I found Twilight's struggles and blunders to be very true to life. Yes, she has learned a lot over the years, and she does managed to use those skills effectively (especially when she finally convinced Starlight Glimmer to stop her revenge scheme). But she hasn't stopped learning, and she probably never will stop learning. You know the phrase "You learn something new every day?" Well, that's actually a thing. Plus, you can't really fault Twi too much. All of the problems she tackled this season were completely new to her; of course she's not going to have an easy fix for everything.
3576108 To my shame, "expy" is apparently a Troper-exclusive term, though I could swear I'd seen it elsewhere. What's more, I wasn't even using it correctly. They'd probably use the term "suspiciously similar substitute" to describe what I meant, which is a character meant to replace another character within the same show.
I find it interesting that you use the phrase "all the problems she solved this season," because, the way I read things, there weren't many at all. Take the episodes I named. In Amending Fences everything she did was actively counterproductive, except for letting Moondancer use her as a rhetorical punching bag (implying that everything she had to say was true). Only Pinkie Pie did anything productive. Party Pooped followed exactly the same through-line, only it was more badly-written. What About Discord gave the lie to Twilight's Kingdom; it turns out that despite the events of that episode, she never trusted Discord or thought of him as a friend, and her other friends picked up on that. That's why they were able to finally bond with him when she was out of the way. The Hooffields and McColts had her reduce her understanding of friendship to a series of smarmy marketing lines, giving the lie to practically the whole show.
Literally the only positive contributions Twilight made to the resolutions of events this season were in Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep (itself a pseudo-finale), and in this very finale. But coming after a season where she screwed up everything she touched, where her understanding of friendship or how to relate to other ponies was infantile, Twilight's performance in The Cutie Re-Mark feels cheap and unearned.
I agree on basically all counts. Five vies hard with season one for my favorite season, which really only has the edge on account of making me fall in love with ponies in the first place.
3576182
And it was. That's what needed to happen, and Twilight didn't realize that. What, you expected her to?
No. The problem wasn't that Twilight didn't trust Discord; the problem was she was jealous and she felt bad about missing out on the bonding fun he had with her friends. She simply refused to admit it.
Keep in mind the map snubbed her twice before that point. Once she got her turn, she became overzealous and over-prepared. And once again, this problem was unlike any she had ever tackled before!
3577613
Not really. If Amending Fences was an isolated instance, I'd be prepared to let it go. But it's not. It's just one more way this season has set out to prove that Twilight is (not was; is and remains) a bad friend. For some reason.
The question the episode left unanswered was "why did Discord only manage to bond with Twilight's friends in Twilight's absence?" The X factor, the variable that needed removing, was Twilight herself. That's a deeper problem than jealousy, and one Twilight never admitted: her presence actively prevented new friendships from forming.
The problem was quite similar to Over A Barrel's, actually, though you're right in the sense that none of the main cast actually helped resolve that problem either. Although in that episode Twilight (unlike Applejack and Rainbow Dash) did try to listen to both sides' grievances, something that was very much lacking here.
3578554
Were we watching the same season? Because I still don't see Twilight as a bad friend. She's just a pony with struggles to overcome like everypony else.
You're thinking about this too much, mate. Discord was trying to make Twilight jealous by saying "Ha ha! I'm better at friendship than you!" If he didn't do that and just allowed Twilight to join in, she would've bonded with him just fine.
Twilight did try to do that with the Hooffields and the McColts. The problem was that neither side really knew what they were fighting about. That's the entire point of the episode.
3579742
I don't see her that way, but that's in spite of the season I watched, not because of it.
Discord's intent is both ambiguous and irrelevant. What matters is that the rest of the ponies bonded with him quite genuinely, something they (besides Fluttershy) were not able to do in Twilight's company.
She said the words "Well, maybe there could be [friendship here] if we figure out what the McColts did to make you so mad," and "I know what to do. We're gonna talk with these McColts and hear their side of the story." But it was clear that she wasn't really trying to communicate or listen. The key line is "I know what to do." That's why every line out of her mouth was a canned recitation, not her really talking. She had the same problem in Party Pooped, and I know you know that because you wrote a whole story about how inauthentic she was in that episode.
3579803
Correlation does not equal causality.
First of all, the feuding families weren't trying to communicate, either. They just wanted to fight.
Secondly, Twilight always works best with a plan. And when something doesn't go according to plan, she freaks out. This has been a defining part of her character since Season 1, and being a princess only exacerbates that trait; it doesn't erase it. I actually find Twilight to be very identifiable in that regard. I too work better with a plan, and I get very frustrated when that plan is interfered with.
Thirdly, the point of my story Yaks Not Ponies was not to showcase Twilight's diplomatic mistakes. The episode itself already did that. No, I was trying to show that even though both sides were in the wrong, they had legitimate reasons for doing what they did.
3579860
Of course not. Good thing we were shown under controlled experimental conditions that Twilight's presence was the problem. We know that given the exact same events, Twilight still would not have gotten into them, still been a wet blanket, and would have inadvertently sabotaged the friend-making.
You'd think that'd be a clue that actual communication would be the key to resolving their feud. But apparently it wasn't.
Now it must be me who's not communicating clearly. I apologize for that. My problem with the way Twilight was written in The Hooffields and McColts was not that she had a plan, or even that she freaked out (as an aside, I don't recall her doing so, unlike in Party Pooped; in this episode she just shut down). My objection to her portrayal is that she was indicating, something that only happens when you're not really talking or listening, not making yourself available to the other person. Having a plan is fine. Using a plan to substitute for real interaction is not.
It wasn't a diplomatic mistake so much as it was a friendship mistake, and once again it came down to not listening.
3579916
You're really buying into Discord's logic with that? That line of reasoning makes no sense (which is typical for Discord). In the experiment, Twilight was an outside observer. That explicitly means she was not interfering with the results of the experiment. To say that her observation tampers with the results of the experiment is to say a scientist seeing how bacteria mutate in a lab interferes with that experiment.
Spontaneous interaction is not Twilight's forte. Some people/ponies just work better with a script; it doesn't mean they aren't really listening or trying to interact with others. I know what that's like; I'm more or less the same way.
3579948
It wasn't Discord's logic, it was Twilight's. She observed everything that happened as if she had been there, and didn't get into it. Therefore, she wouldn't have gotten into it had she been there the first time. Only, if she had been there, her not having gotten into it would have affected everypony else.
I linked to an acting article, and you're going to pretend I was talking about spontaneity vs. planning? It's perfectly possible to be available to the person you're talking to, to live truthfully, and to stick to a script. The article contained examples of people doing exactly that. It doesn't matter whether Twilight went in with a plan or not. It doesn't even matter whether she stuck to it. What matters is what she was doing. She was trying to show everybody how much of a friendship expert she was, and because of that, was not acting like it.
3579978
There's a reason the saying "You had to be there" exists. Twilight trying to recreate the event down to the last detail was absolute folly from the get-go, but that's just how Twilight thinks.
After reading the article, I see what you're saying about indication. And I have no qualms with that line of reasoning. That one was my bad.
At the end of the day, I think Twilight's portrayal this season was just fine. You disagree, and I can understand why you do so. And just to be a good sport, if it turns out that Twilight isn't replaced in Season 6, I won't say I told you so.
Seriously, though. To think Starlight Glimmer is remotely as likable as Twilight Sparkle at this juncture is simply asinine.
3580043
Some random guy, talking up how likable Starlight Glimmer is, how she brings things to the group that Twilight can't, and how much of a boon she'd be to the show.
If you can see my point about indication, then I don't see how you can say her portrayal was just fine. Someone who supposedly understands friendship so well as to create new magic out of that understanding should not have to resort to indicating.
Oh, feel free. I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. I do, however, want to distinguish between "replaced" and "written out." If it turns out that Season 6 has Twilight, say, in the background filling Princess Celestia's old role, and Starlight learning about friendship with the rest of the Mane Six, being all purple, and smart, and filled with wonderment, that counts as having been replaced.
3580076 I see your point about indicating, and I understand how you think it's a problem. I don't think it is, because Twilight is a pony who has a history of trying too hard. And again, the pressures of being a princess only make that worse.
Yeah, I can't follow that guy's reasoning at all. I agree that Starlight Glimmer has potential to be an interesting redeemed character, but as it stands, she comes off as a petty child who's afraid of change. And if that's the case, well, Twilight's not going anywhere anytime soon. She needs to be there to help Starlight grow up.
3580157
Okay, I see your point with that. To go back to acting, time pressure, a crappy director, a casting change, or a thousand other things could make even Stanislavski fall back on indicating. Just because Twilight fell back on it here doesn't mean she never got beyond indicating in the first place, or that her understanding only amounted to everyone buying her indicating for some reason.
That just makes The Hooffields and McColts bad for a different reason; it didn't show Twilight falling back on indication, at least the way I read it. She just relied on it from the start.
But if Twilight's characterization in Season 5 is any guide, she can't. And even if she can, how is that different from her playing Princess Celestia's role in Seasons 1 and 2, with her own role being taken by somepony else?
3580220
Simple. Twilight would take a more proactive role in Starlight's education. Celestia's method was always pushing Twi in the right direction without getting directly involved (unless she absolutely had to). She trusted Twilight to figure things out on her own and make good decisions. You can't extend that same amount of trust to Starlight Glimmer. Again, she's a very immature pony, and that immaturity combined with her power makes her very dangerous. Twilight knows this, which is why she's probably going to holding Starlight's hoof for the majority of her reformation.
It's true that Twilight has struggled with diplomacy, over-planning, and patching up old wounds amongst other things during this season. But when it comes to teaching someone else the magic of friendship as long as they're willing to listen, well, that's right up her alley.
3580277 "Immaturity combined with great power" describes Twilight's Seasons 1 and 2 character to a tee.
3580324 Not nearly to the same extent as Starlight Glimmer. She was willing to destroy the entire timeline out of spite. Twilight would never do that, not even back in Season 1.
3581158 You sure? Human Twilight in Friendship Games was willing to, and she's basically Season 1 Twilight plus confidence issues.
3581399 Oranges and apples, mate. Pony Twilight and Human Twilight did not grow up in the same circumstances. Pony Twilight was surrounded by friendship; she just didn't realize how important it was at first. Human Twilight had to work in an environment where no one cared about friendship. Thus she was more prone to Cinch's manipulation.
3580277 Might have been better to reopen this discussion when the hiatus began rather than as it's coming to a close, but oh well. The two episodes so far this season where Twilight has played any kind of actual role (counting the premiere as one episode) were determined to teach Twilight to mentor more like Celestia. Deviation from this was punished with her single worst portrayal in the series, that being No Second Prances, which repeats What About Discord's message, only more explicit: all Twilight's good for in the series now is sabotaging friendships. And if the synopses and trailers are any indication, she'll be leading a McCarthyite witchhunt in The Times They Are A-Changeling, because apparently no one remembers that she resisted doing that in Bridle Gossip. So at least No Second Prances will have a short time as the lowest of the low portrayals.
I really am loath to play the "ruined forever" card, because too-liberal use of it has been the death of many a fan's credibility, and eventually the phrase's itself. But I simply can't imagine this season not ending with Starlight deciding to swan off because Twilight clearly knows nothing worth teaching. Or perhaps a season finale that features Twilight finally realizing how rotten she's become and falling to the guilt. Or both, with the other ponies having to convince Starlight to pull Twilight back from the abyss.
4104075 While I agree that No Second Prances was not a great showing for Twilight, I excuse her because, well, she was half-right. Trixie did have a nefarious scheme. She just had it coincide with trying to forge an actual friendship. Plus, Twi was trying too hard to impress Celestia. She has a habit of doing that, y'know.
I'm not going to say anything about the new episode until it actually happens, but why do you think Twilight shouldn't be skeptical of a changeling? What, do you think it would be better if she blindly extended the olive branch and let this infiltrator have full reign to do whatever it wants? Because that would be a poor showing for Twilight's character.
4104386 What makes you think the changeling's going to even appear until well into the episode? Far more likely, we'll get another shield over the Empire, and ponies hauled in on the slightest suspicion to be examined (there is that spell that reveals changelings) and interrogated for disloyalty. There'll be nobody to "extend an olive branch" to, only suspicion and paranoia without a tangible target, fueled by bigotry. And yes, once the changeling's revealed, given that What About Discord and No Second Prances (and Bridle Gossip!) have happened, I'd expect Twilight to have learned from them. It will reflect very poorly on her if she hasn't. Not only will it show shockingly poor and apparently unimprovable moral character on her part, but it will cement that for these writers, her only story role is to sabotage, not spread, friendship in this case, between at least Spike and the changeling, and at most between changelings and ponies.
Yes, Twilight does have a habit of trying too hard to impress Celestia. But this used to be one trait among many, a dimension to her character if you will. At this point, it's swallowed her character to almost the same degree Ned Flanders's religiosity has swallowed his. I say "almost" because the writers have also inflated her knowitallism, obliviousness to the feelings of others, and obsessiveness too, so at least she's not one-note. The trouble is, there's nothing likable left among the din.
4104511 ...
Again, that's all speculation. I don't like talking about episodes that haven't aired yet, because it's possible that both of us could be entirely wrong. We don't know until it actually happens.
Also, I'm still not seeing what you're seeing. Saddle Row & Rec showed that Twilight was willing to solve the problem the way Rarity wanted it solved (even though that wasn't the correct way to go, but it shows she's thinking about her friend), and some of her smaller moments in A Hearth's Warming Tail and Applejack's "Day" Off demonstrates that she still has what it takes to be a teacher.
4104524 Odd episodes to invoke. Twilight was barely in A Hearth's Warming Tail (Luna featured more prominently), and her most prominent action in The Saddle Row Review was to commit the tort of false imprisonment.
4104531 Did... Did you forget Twilight was the one reading the story in Hearth's Warming Tail? And she was reading it to teach Starlight Glimmer about the importance of the holiday?
Also, I think I made my reason for sighting Saddle Row & Rec quite clear. Were Twilight's actions correct? Not exactly. But she was thinking about her friend.
4104557 I did not forget. I'm saying that it doesn't matter, because of how little time and attention was devoted to that framing device. The framing device in Hearth's Warming Eve had more focus. Hell, so did Saddle Row's. Tail's might as well not have been in the episode for all it mattered.
4104585 I'm actually inclined to agree with you, if only because the events of the episode would've been a lot more potent if they were happening to Starlight Glimmer herself rather than a Scrooge avatar being played by her. But seeing as they didn't go that route for whatever reason, I still count that as a feather in Twi's cap. Albeit a very small feather.
4105484 So you outright admit an episode would have been outright better without Twilight in it. Now consider that the one episode that might be considered hers in any way throughout Season 6 cast her as the antagonist. Going back to the thread we were discussing in the aftermath of Season 5, I think we can safely say I was right. She's been replaced by Starlight.
4105494 I didn't say it would've been better without Twilight; don't twist my words. I said it would've been better if the events of the story were actually happening to Starlight Glimmer instead of some Scrooge avatar.
Also, Twilight was not the antagonist of No Second Prances. No one was. Everyone was right as well as wrong. Twilight was looking out for her student's well-being; she was just doing it in the wrong way. Starlight wanted to figure things out on her own, but she threw caution to the wind. And I already wrote an entire blog post of how Trixie's both right and wrong in that episode.
4106183 No word-twisting involved. Having the events happen to Starlight would mean cutting the framing device. The framing device is the only part of the episode where Twilight appears. Ergo, in order to make the episode better, you would cut Twilight out of it.
As for No Second Prances, sometimes things are simpler than boosters of the show like to claim. You seriously think that we're meant to sympathize with Twilight in this episode? We're meant to groan at her boneheadedness and laugh at her karma. Classic antagonist posture.
4106371 Well who are we supposed to sympathize with in that episode? Trixie for being a manipulative egomaniac? Starlight for being a headstrong fool? I'm telling you; that episode is not as simple as you think it is.
As for Twilight's role in Hearth's Warming Tail, perhaps I should specify. If I were writing the episode, I'd have Twilight cast as Bob Cratchett and Spike be Tiny Tim. Have the whole thing be a nightmare where Starlight envisions herself as Scrooge (or Snowfall, whatever). That way, the story is happening to her. She's not sitting there listening to a story; she's experiencing it.
4106409 Starlight for being caught in the middle of two manipulative mares who care nothing for her.
4106428 Um, no. They both do care about her. It's just that Twilight was being overprotective, and Trixie was being opportunistic.
4106438 Both indications that they don't actually care about her. They care about bigging themselves up.
EDIT: to be clear, Twilight wants to use Starlight to prove to herself and to Celestia how good a teacher she is, and in doing so proves that she's awful and that Starlight would be better off without her. Trixie wants to use Starlight to prove to herself and to Twilight how superior a person she is, and in doing so proves that she's awful and that Starlight would be better off without her.
4106452 You say that as if it's impossible for Trixie or Twilight to have multiple motivations. But as a matter of fact, Trixie's entire dilemma was that she was trying to have her cake and eat it, too. She wanted to genuinely become Starlight's friend as well as get a leg up on Twilight. And in Twilight's case, the same is more or less true.
People desire contradictory things all the time. To suggest that anyone is above that, let alone Twilight, is ridiculous.
4106474 There are two reasons people do things: the real one and the good one. Never the twain shall meet. The real reason is never a good reason, and the good reason is never the real reason.
Point is, the cynical reason gives the lie to the well-intentioned reason. It taints it. Makes it false.
4106478 ...
Why?
It's a simple question. Why? Why can't the real reason be the good reason? Or assuming that's true, why can't people do it for both reasons? Or heck, why can't they do it for no reason at all?
That platitude makes no sense, is what I'm trying to say.
4106483 Because the good reasons people give are there to cover their shame, and for no other purpose. No action is ever really pride-worthy.
4106484 Well, that's a rather broad generalization. A rather bleak one, too. At this point, I think there's a genuine ideological difference between us. Because the way I see it, people can:
A. Do the right thing for the right reason
B. Do the wrong thing for the wrong reason
C. Do the right thing for the wrong reason
D. Do the wrong thing for the right reason
E. Do a thing for a multitude of reasons at the same time (good and bad)
F. Do a thing because potatoes (ie. for no reason at all)
You clearly don't see the world that way, and that's okay, I guess. I personally like my world with a bit more nuance and grey areas to it, but that's just me. Point is I don't think we're going to ever reach an agreement until the actual canon proves one of us wrong.
4106498 The way I see it, the actual canon has proved one of us wrong . . . about the original point. I don't think it can be denied that Twilight hasn't gotten a decent vehicle for her character (definitions aren't helpful, so for examples of a character vehicle, see Flutter Brutter for Fluttershy, Canterlot Boutique for Rarity, or Amending Fences and Equestria Girls 1 for Twilight) in a good, long time. It also can't be denied that none of the announced episodes so far for Season 6.5 provide one.