Of standards and fiction: why EQD shouldn't be surprised about the hate caused by their own site's goals · 4:01am Jul 9th, 2012
The biggest problem is that the way EQD operates has created behaviors in the fanfic side of the fandom (possibly in other sides too, though I wouldn't know). EQD's high standards have nurtured a culture of making itself a goal to members of the community, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are many who write just to write, and being appreciated or read is just a bonus to them. Some people aspire to become a great writer, and track their successes and failures to keep trying again and improving themselves. Fimfiction has several ways to judge how well your works are being received by readers.
Before I continue, I'd like to point out that some of the negative feedback I've received has made me more butthurt than the thought of an overworked EQD pre-reader looking at the dry and boring exposition in my first chapter then rejecting it. I'm pointing this out because my post is meant to explain why EQD shouldn't be surprised they're partly to blame for the mentality, not to vent my own problems (which I actually don't bother submitting to them anyway so yay!)
So back to what I was saying, there is nothing wrong with authors wanting to get recognized and big. It's dumb to think a band wants to put so much time and creative energy into their music without any effort to spread recognition of their work; the same goes for us writers. On Fimfiction, I have lots of treats of validation for my fic - likes, dislikes (lack thereof), favorites, and of course the reader comments. I like this instant feedback, but I'll get into that later. So when EQD decides their ironic mission statement is to spread their own reputation and name recognition by holding submissions to high standards, over time they create a fanbase who look at entry acceptance as a badge of merit. Although I don't plan on submitting anything to EQD because I'm a sensitive person and don't need them telling me my stuff is garbage, you'd have no idea how much I'd show that acceptance off if they actually DIDN'T reject my entry.
So there's the one side. EQD trying to boost their rep with high standards. Let me reiterate that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. Step 2 was fans starting to see it as a hurdle to jump if they want to go from good to great. But the other side is how much more exposure the writer will receive if his or her entry makes it through the seemingly impossible barrier. Look at the number of page views on the front of EQD, then try to tell me that writers aren't interested AT ALL in getting that much daily traffic to see their work.
EQD aspires to be the number one brony site so they set high standards, which have become notorious and infamous amongst fanfic writers. Fanfic writers aspire to create works which will be widely read and reflect back on them, and there are legitimate intrinsic benefits to getting their fic onto EQD's front page. EQD has the same motives for their site as writers do for their fanfics. Though there are plenty of terrible fics that get tossed out, there are enough good works that are tossed out in the exact same way as the rest are, thus are compared to said garbage.
The last matter I wish to address is rejected characterization. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There's a difference between poor characterization and incorrect characterization, and I feel that EQD should only reject the former. Anyone a fan of Marvel or DC? Writers over the decades have successfully and unsuccessfully expanded upon the characterizations of countless iconic heroes and villains. A big point here is that not all of them are necessarily right or wrong. In most cases, seeing different interpretations of characters is very exciting when done right. My favorite example is how Grek Pak wrote Bruce Banner as a callous manipulative anti-hero, making him very exciting to read because of how dangerous he was when he literally could not hulk out for several issues. In fact, by the time he could hulk out again, I got a sense of relief as opposed to seeing it as a tragic turn of misfortune. He was very similar to Ed Norton's portrayal of Banner. Compare that to Mark Ruffalo's Banner. Completely different (and apparently being a doctor means you know medicine regardless of your background), but both sides were done very well.
An interpretation of a character shouldn't be rejected. If EQD decides that's their policy, then they're stifling creativity. There are several potential sides and interpretations of characters, and if EQD sets a standard that different cannot possibly be good quality, then that will reflect poorly on the site and its staff.
To end this tl;dr-fest, I'd like to close with a disclaimer: I am not an idiot and I understand the obvious reasons why something would be rejected. There is a difference between a kid being mad their brony-in-Equestria gets turned down and a writer wondering why their well-thought and thrice-edited alternate history story was turned down. In the future, if EQD ever plans on openly commenting on the backlash they receive from rejected writers, they should be prepared to shed light on their own direction for the site contributing to fans' perception of what it means to be accepted.
The only problem with your characterization segment is that with the Bruce Banner comparison, there are always different versions of characters like that in comic books. Some writers put their own spin on the characters and make their own stories, and that's normal. That's why different series come out and there are different story arcs to explore.
With Friendship is Magic, it's not like that. There is ONE version of the characters we have - at least the main ones - which are developed over time. Pinkie, for instance, is bubbly, always happy, loves parties and making her friends happy, and singing. She's been like that the whole series, and we aren't expecting that to change without a good explanation from the writers. We don't accept OOC characters because there isn't another side to the characters. In this show, what we see is what it is (unless you're writing about a character with low development, such as the BG ponies, the princesses, or few side characters). There just isn't room for alternate interpretations.
Now, if you want to put an Alternate Universe tag on your fic, you're free to do that, but it still better be good. Often times that's just an excuse to write out of character.
Other than that, decent read.
Actually, you're missing the point sir: fanfic bases are a LOT like comic book continuity, and it is surprising you don't see the similarities in countless writers handling the same few dozen characters over extended periods of time. I'll TRY to explain this one more tine : there is a difference between OOC and expanding the character. If you can't tell the difference then there's nothing more to say here. And there can't be other sides to characters if we're discouraged from exploring the potential. Also, there's a lot more to a character than their basic surface-level traits. I'm not suggesting we have a dark, brooding Pinkie Pie who throws parties to ironically draw attention to the emotional contrasts. Pinkie Pie is not always happy in the show, for the record.
I'm not championing this argument as an excuse to make Twilight a magic school dropout or depict a generous Rarity (zing!); I'm trying to bring to light some of the narrow perspectives that negatively affect the relationship between aspiring writers and EQD's pre-readers. I won't even go into how many writers just give up on writing certain genres because of how EQD pre-readers treat said genres. That shouldn't happen, regardless of how many HiE stories suck. The standards simultaneously create a goal-oriented desire as well as discourage people exploring alternative creative venues due to pressures of meeting the standards.
>There's a difference between poor characterization and incorrect characterization, and I feel that EQD should only reject the former.
I understand what you're trying to say, but you missed something. I think there's one more form of characterization, and that's the only one that should be accepted. There's the two you mentioned, both of which I feel should be rejected. The one you didn't mention, though, is expanded characterization. I think that's what you meant by incorrect characterization.
220992
>We don't accept OOC characters because there isn't another side to the characters. In this show, what we see is what it is. There just isn't room for alternate interpretations.
If you are referring only to instances where a pony completely goes against character, then I agree. However, if you're referring to instances where there is some aspect of, say, Fluttershy's character present in the story that isn't explicitly developed in the show, then that seems to me as an incredibly short-sighted, perhaps even idiotic, view of characterization. To look at something and simply accept it at face value is to miss the big picture. There's so much more than what we see in the show, so many more possibilities to explore. For the most part, we've seen all these ponies in public. There have always been other ponies around them. We haven't seen them in the privacy of their own minds. We have no way of knowing if they've simply put up a defensive shield of sorts to protect themselves. There is always another side to a person. Nobody is truly one-dimensional. Beneath the brash pride of Rainbow Dash may be an incredibly sensitive and caring pony. Applejack takes pride in being dependable, but beneath that could be the overwhelming need to constantly prove to herself that she isn't a useless waste of flesh. All it takes is a bit of imagination (which I lack) and a bit of creativity (which I also lack) and these ideas of potential characterization could make great stories. To simply reject them because we've never seen that pony act that way is foolish. So you can't prove there's intelligent life in the world. You can't prove there isn't, either. Same concept applies here. Simply because we don't know it exists doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I'm really confused. Are you under the impression that EqD doesn't accept alt-universe fics? Because they do. I see you said you've not submitted anything, so you're just going off on a rant based on what you've heard from other people. Everyone thinks that they are the best ever writer, and some people take rejection hard. Some people tend to make up other reasons why their fics get rejected just so they don't have to deal with being a bad writer. I remember one time that someone said a friend's story was rejected because EqD has a blanket ban on Sonic fics and they went on a massive rant on behalf of their friend... only to learn that EqD DOESN'T have a blanket ban on Sonic fics, it was just a bad story.
It's actually rare for a story to get rejected on bad characterisation grounds, mostly because the characterisations of the mane 6 are so solid that it's hard to mess up. People still do, of course. I remember a story which was rejected because Fluttershy swore like a sailor with every other word an F-bomb. The author was adamant that this wasn't an alternate universe, and that swearing Fluttershy was 100% in line with the Fluttershy we saw on screen, and couldn't understand why we thought it was OOC for Fluttershy to casually swear all the time.
Of course, I'm not saying you can't expand characterisation, but there needs to be an obvious path from A to B.
221519 It's not the best-worded blog, so here's to clear up confusion: I'm not crusading for anyone in particular. I'm trying to relate two perspectives to create a bigger picture of what EQD's submission standards have created. I understand people get sensitive about their works (see: special snowflake), and I understand that some may attempt to exaggerate or even lie about their rejection to garner sympathy. I didn't think it needed mentioning. I was trying to illustrate the long-term effects of EQD's vision for itself and how it affects the fanfiction side of things. I then tried to show how the success of EQD as a site, when combined with its notorious standards, creates a holy grail of sorts for writers to seek out. The EQD pre-reader system and the writers who try to submit their work to the site both feed each other, and the divide will continue to grow. I apologize for being unclear on the matter; I understand that my other points I was tossing in about specific debated standards or practices muddled the focus a bit. I keep hearing there are a bunch of high-rated stories on Fimfiction that get rejected on EQD, so it's easy to understand that enough folks may get curious about the consistency in the standards and practices of the pre-readers.
I mentioned this already, but I'm not submitting my story to EQD because if you read my first chapter [of my only story on here] you'll see that I'm fully aware of the "lol NO" I would undoubtedly get from one of the pre-readers.
221034
No, I realize the difference between OOC and character expansion, but that expansion has to be done in a reasonable and logical path with a good transition from Attitude A to Attitude B. If there isn't, we don't take it.
>Pinkie Pie is not always happy in the show
Okay, she was upset that one time in Party of One and then she cracked under pressure in Baby Cakes. So, now we know how she acts in this situations. Awesome.
>That shouldn't happen, regardless of how many HiE stories suck
We treat HiE stories exactly the same as any other story and we judge them accordingly. Guess what? They usually suck, and that's not our fault.
221134
>If you are referring only to instances where a pony completely goes against character, then I agree.
Most of the time, this is the case. Character A does Action 1 which drastically goes against everything we've seen them do in the show. That's wrong.
>Beneath the brash pride of Rainbow Dash may be an incredibly sensitive and caring pony.
And this
>Applejack takes pride in being dependable, but beneath that could be the overwhelming need to constantly prove to herself that she isn't a useless waste of flesh.
is perfectly okay. If an author wants to explore something like that, they're certainly free to, but they need to do it within reason, or, within very, very good writing. Those are both very plausible ideas which can easily be written about and explored. Now, if only people would write ideas like that which are a possible in the dimension of Friendship is Magic.
Twilight being a descendant of Starswirl? Sure, that could work. That could even be good!
Mr. and Mrs. Cake secretly being government spies? A bit out there, but if you can pull it off, awesome.
Applejack killing off her family in cold blood? Er, uh, no. Sorry. She would never do that, and the rest of the family wouldn't do something so horrible as to justify that.
So, to wrap this up, character development is great. If you think a character has an undiscovered side to them, go for it. Write it. Just make sure it's believable and it's something that could happen. It needs to be plausible.
221556
Then it seems like my pointless rant was indeed pointless and there's no issue here. Cheers
221556 aside from the finer details, which seem to be the only part you cared to bring up, do you agree in any small or large part to the big picture I (tried lol) to paint? I can strip away the side fluff if you like:
EQD wants to be the quintessential MLP site for bronies (aka they want to spread recognition and get more page hits etc), and in doing so they set high standards for submissions of creative work from fans. A side effect of these standards, alongside the site's overwhelming popularity, create in tandem a very desirable reward and consequence for those fanfictions which actually pass the pre-screenings. This creates a subculture of writers within bronies who want to take their hobby to the next step by achieving widespread recognition for their work (pretty much same motives or reasoning behind why EQD holds high pre-screening standards, gasp). Neither EQD or the writers are wrong in wanting to be well-known, but fiction-friction between the two parties was inevitable. There's a lot more to the story than "he/she didn't get accepted so their work must blow" and "he/she didn't accept my story so they must be biased." Since a lot of writers may exaggerate their rejection, and since the pre-screening process is for the most part subjective and at the mercy of pre-readers' judgment of what they feel is good or bad, there's no way to reasonably conclude only one side is to blame for the negative outlook on EQD's screening process.
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For writers reading this and feel daunted by failing to be on EQD - When your story is on Fimfiction you only have to please your readers, not anyone who is judging whether your work furthers their site as a reputable source for great work (aka makes them look better). If you think about it in these terms, it would be silly to be mad at them! It's a mutual exchange, really; your story gets more attention in the hopes that EQD strengthens its name. Also, I personally enjoy the immediate feedback I get from readers genuinely interested in seeing my work succeed. These are the folks I should be trying to please, as should any aspiring reader.