305145, I can see where you're coming from but to me, that's something I wouldn't stoop to.

But hey, it's your call.

----------------

And scratch what I said about Blaze's original story.

Chatoyance's stories are orders of magnitude worse. It's like she takes everything bad about the stories and magnifies it even more. Add a healthy dose of moralizing and the fact that she believes in what she's writing and you get an abomination of a story.

I posted as a response to her Ten Minutes: Aftermath bullshit "Your prose is so purple it makes Stephanie Meyer look succinct." It was either that or delay my own anti-TCB fic writing by ranting.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I just can't stand that Mankind Triumphant story by Chatoyance. I honestly wouldn't mind this one so much, even though I really disagree with her on just about everything she believes about human nature and the actual show itself, but I really can't stand the way she advertises this one. Like with the Ten Minutes: Aftermath one (which I haven't read, but I will after posting this), she seems to post it in the comments sections of other stories, whenever somebody expresses that they would like to see a "Humans Win" fic. I would otherwise have no problem with this, but she seems to post it as a sarcastic quip, as in "You want to see humans win? Here! Have my story, see how awful it would be, and love it!" As for the story itself, it suffers from everything else I dislike about what I have read of hers, I.E.: Dull prose, over reliance on the "Humans are bastards" trope, etc.

305715 Ugh, I know. It got put in my story's comments too.

Have fun reading Aftermath, be sure to bring your barf bag.

305762

I do love how pathetically condescending Chat's getting in the Aftermath comments.

>Literally saying "Dance my puppets, dance!"

My sides, they're moving on their own!

Wow, this is a massive rant about Chatoyance... well you guys have fun about arguing about petty thing while we do what we like to do, kthanksbye.

305792 Why are you here?

305762>>305791 Yeah, Aftermath was stupid. However, for some reason, I felt that I just had to read the comments after finishing. I wouldn't be surprised if she is genuinely trolling in those comments. All the sarcastic quips and logical fallacies, specifically, the appeal to age, and as what I believe is an appeal to authority really don't work in her favor. And then she goes on to declare that every dislike is a "badge of honor" for her. Yeah...

305792 Why would you join a group that's clearly labeled "Anti-Conversion Bureau" and then proceed to complain about members of said group criticizing conversion bureau stories?

305792, it was supposed to be about which TCB fic you hate. And since a lot of fics that got "disrecommended" are by JDR. Well, it goes to follow that we'd start talking about JDR.

Now I have this to ask, do you have anything to add to the conversation or are you just going to add inane comments?

-----------------

Back to the topic at hand, what about TCB fics that swing too far in the opposite direction (I.E. Equestrians Are Bastards)?

If you ask me, those are equally as repulsive.

And the worst "counter-TCB" fic I have seen is the GreekDollMaker's fic (can't remember the title) where his self-insert is given a mission by Discord to kill Chatoyance, Krass McWriter and some other well known TCB authors. The reason I hate it is because it smacks of a spitefic - and I hate those.

305792

>Guy who writes TCB stories.
>Joins anti-TCB group.
>Complains about us disliking shitty fucking pieces of literature.

MAKES SENSE

305818

I just looked that up when you mentioned it, and Christ. That was fucking awful. It's so needlessly spiteful and downright terrible and its execution. Plus it only has one chapter, it can't even get to the killing, it needs to needlessly build it up like it's actually pretending to be something meaningful!

305818 It's The Greatest Story Never Told, and I believe that's the only one that goes for the "Equestrians are Bastards" angle. I don't really have any strong opinion on it, other than that the prologue was pretentious, dull, and it's pretty much a deadfic at this point.

Edit: I decided to take a look at The Reasonably Adamant Down With Celestia Newfoal Society! to see what the fuss was about. Having read the first chapter, eh, I don't think I can read four more chapters of it. It's not funny, and that's all that needs to be said about a comedy.

I hear I rustle jimmies.
Picture Related.

305978

304706 I'm not actually sure (to be more serious for a second) which argument you're talking about. Got a link? I'm usually open to discussion as long as it doesn't end up going in circles. I guess I'll go dig up that post and find our back-and-forth, if you want...

EDIT: Oh hey, found it! Apparently I was ignoring some important points you wanted me to comment on, but I'm not sure which ones they were. If you want, I'm open. Hit me; if you think I'm so terrible, tell me why, ask me questions. For some reason a lot of you think I matter more than I think I should.

306006

So you intrude on this group with nothing but a shitty image macro, and expect to then have a serious debate? You baffle me. Also shitty memes are shitty.

I assume you're referring to the EqD post? Well, if you want to know why I think you're an asshole, I'll lay down some reasons. And you matter because you're a pre-reader for EqD, which makes you a relatively important person on this site. Relatively mind you.

Seeing as the numerous posts are way too fuckin' long to just quote, let me list some short reasons. This will not deal exclusively with that post though.

1) You intrude on a conversation that's the anti-thesis of what you believe with no response or actual niceness, or even a set of points really, instead posting a shitty image macro that only makes you look like an asshole.

2) How you posted a compilation of TCB stories for no reason other than to promote your friends stories without any regard for the quality and how it fits to EqD. Now I don't hate EqD like a lot of people, I'm just annoyed by some of the people on it or commenting there, but that really didn't fit well with me. That whole post reeked of an attempt to shrill out the Conversion Bureau stories, especially since a good... third of the stories I think were by Chat.

3) You're refusal to make any real point in the comments for that and here besides 'you all just don't get it man!' You insisted again the way used in TCB is the smartest way, without offering any evidence besides your own non-objective, and you gotta admit, incredibly biased perspective.

4) Not-so subtlety insulting people who dislike TCB in comments for Chat's stories, and agreeing with everything she says perfectly without giving a care to others thoughts. There are too many examples to list here, so if anyone wants to throw a link or screenie my way, go ahead.

5) Insulting others for their own takes on the Conversion Bureau (i.e not exactly like your own) and providing no real criticism beyond 'Fuck you, how dare you be different!'

And... that's it for now I believe. I just woke up, so I probably can't make more cohesive points. Hopefully this will turn into a rational and civil discussion though.

Ha!

306034 You know no one will take you seriously if you swear and rant like that, but if you think that I am wrong then come into the #tcb IRC chat and we shall discuss and, I'll be sure to drag Midnight into this if you want to talk to him and show us without the use of profanity where we tcb writers are going wrong. I shall give you the information on how to join below and I shall be waiting, but I am living on the other side of the world so I will be going to bed soon, but never the less I shall be waiting for you.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MRVvQFODApSWmqikOTXlcx0jjHw1eMS1nEXQgwMQhlM/edit

306037

>You know no one will take you seriously if you swear and rant like that,

And no one will take you seriously if you can't even debate any of my fucking points, instead complaining about something extraneous. Also I hardly think swears matter, especially since I only called him an asshole once so far, and that's hardly the worst insult.

>, but if you think that I am wrong then come into the #tcb IRC chat and we shall discuss

Well besides the fact that you've done fuck all to prove me wrong, how about no? As if I'd go into a chat that would probably rip me to shreds as soon as I enter. And I hate IRC chat anyway. I can hardly see why midnight can't reply here, where he began this whole thing.

Can you have any criticism for me besides profanity? This isn't Sunday school guy, Jesus Fucking Shit Christ.

306043 Well one you haven't really presented any arguments on why midnights is an asshole besides that he posts things on EqD stories written by Chatoyance and himself, and the only reason I am asking you to talk in the IRC is because I think my being here is quite disruptive even though if it was my attention at first but now I just want to know your reasons behind the total bashing of all TCB fic's that aren't glorifying the human race even though it is a story about people turning into ponies. So if you would tell me I will leave you and this group alone so you can do what you want because I think we have wasted each others time in this silly idiocy that has gotten quite out of hand.

306050
>Well one you haven't really presented any arguments on why midnights is an asshole besides that he posts things on EqD stories written by Chatoyance and himself

What? What do you mean, I'm honestly curious here. I made 5 points, and I could make more probably if I cared enough right now. And right now, we haven't been rude without giving actual points. I'd like an actual debate with you guys on this, but I'm not sure what you want from us really. You're disliking us for hating TCB, without really giving us reasons. If you'd like to give us your reasons, go ahead. An actual debate isn't prohibited at all.

306054

Sorry if I was rude there. I'm trying to salve this over now.

Also, as of a few minutes ago, posting image macros as a response is prohibited , yeah...

306050, 306043, I will ask y'all this once, take the arguing out of this topic

306006, Posting an image macro as a reply to a topic is generally a rude thing to do. Stop.

----------------

Ironically, one of the fics listed here is on my "dislike" list. The only reason is because the author's spelling and grammar is atrocious.

Still, I put it in the group because I felt that the plot outweighed the terrible mechanics enough to get it a spot in the group.

306057
If this is still the wrong place to have a discussion, then I'm sorry, and just kindly leave me out of it, or make sure others do too.

What TCB fics do I hate? Well, I have to say to being rather creeped out by GreekDollMaker's own strange political leanings as well as a fic where she (I presume she's a she) sets out to personally assassinate me. Crazy people on the internet, man, what can you do. First they write a story, then they're chewing off your face... but I digress. I really don't like the original. It's awful in execution. It offers no reasonable reasons for its blatant misanthropy, nor why humans would want to get converted en masse nor any world-building to support any of it. Ponies are wonderful, humans suck and oh look shiny. Bullshit. That's why I wrote my take on it. I loved the idea, but loathed how it was presented - so I gave a broken Earth a reason to convert: that, or die. I fully intended to get to the "humans are so fucking smart, we can overcome adversity" bit, and still want to, but my personally satisfying, self-insert mary sue masturbatory lolfest was so much more fun to write first. Guilty as all hell. I pandered so hard I was shitting bamboo, and I know it. But then there's Gypsy, which deserves so much more... but I like Gypsy, so I won't mention it here.

Other things I hate aren't TCB related, it's just bad grammar. What really pisses me off is people who cannot write and don't admit it, so whilst I have seen a few of them in TCB fics, they don't really fit.

One piece I really hated was an incredibly juvenile story about a human ambassador for ponies, on Earth. It was utterly disgusting in its portrayal of the "hero", which his actions and personally described morals being utterly bankrupt and ridiculous. I think it has, however, been long-since unposted. Thank god. It was slated for inclusion in one of the TCB compilation posts and I hated it so much I threw the whole post out because of it. True story.

306058
>5) I honestly liked that story. I found it hilarious, and a very fitting chide to the "ponify all things" crowd, but it honestly did suffer from a lot of the same problems as most other TCB stories (including my own). I repeat though, I really did like it. I'm not shitting you. Loved it. I don't get where you think I was insulting. Please show me.

Your first response to that story:

This is hilarious!

I'm sorry though, it comes off as the Fox News version and narrated by Limbaugh - there're no reports of murders of ponies or ponified humans, issues such as the inaccessibility of Equestria are swept under the rug, there's still no talk about the millions of uninsured or working poor, and there's a lot of assumption about lack of evidence such as that provided by simple chemistry. It blatantly ignores every other country than america as well as playing little room to equestrian immigration to Earth.

Good stuff though, for a short.

This comes off as incredibly condescending. If you say you didn't mean that, I could believe you, but from a first glance, along with the fact that the person you agree with a lot, Chatoyance, was much ruder and more asinine, it can make you look really bad.

And if you really didn't mean it like that, I'll rescind that point, but it does come off as really condescending.

>4) I'll admit it, I get passive aggressive. I get worked up over people getting worked up over something silly to get worked up over. I'm dumb like that.

Well it's the internet, and from the very fact that I'm still arguing with you on this, I can't really bash you for that.

>I don't agree perfectly with everything Chat says

From what I've seen you post, it certainly seems like it when it comes to TCB.

>but I don't get how some readers a) keep reading her stuff when they really hate it

Numerous reasons.

1) Bad things should be critiqued, as the purpose is to help the authors improve. You're a pre-reader, so you know what I'm getting at here I hope.

2) A bile fascination with her works. Sort of like watching a trainwreck.

3) A desire to at least help Chat, at least on my part, to improve her work so that she can stop posting the same crap in different words.

4) The whole 'Don't like, Don't read' argument is an incredibly weak defense against comments and criticisms. Please don't do that.

>and b) can't distance her story world from the real world - I guess it's just because you feel personally insulted? I can see why, in some cases.

I only feel personally insulted when Chat herself becomes an annoyance and throws out insults to compensate for her own lack of debating skills. It's not like I can't distance myself from fiction. It's the fact that I can judge it objectively, and see the inherent flaws, both logical and moral, in the CB universes that cause me to critique them.

>... I'll have to come back to 2 and 3 since they're connected to each other.

Fair enough.

>Okay, so, this is the history of the TCB anniversary post: EqD has been going for over a year now, and in that time we have seen a lot of things come and go. Internet time is fast, pony time is even faster. One of those things that stuck around is the conversion bureau (another one is Fallout: Equestria, which I also posted an anniversary post for).

I myself don't care for F:E, if only because of all the god-awful spin-offs. Ugh. And a compilation post for F:E is the exact same problem I have with the CB post. It's something that isn't really appropriate for a site that tries to show the good in the pony fandom. I mean, there's an actual clop fic side-story posted of it, and the story itself is waaaaaaaaay too grimdark, that ones a personal thing though. But it's like Cupcakes to me, it's only posted on the site because of how popular it is.

Now the CB post isn't exactly the same, mainly because it's not as popular. But it feels like it shares the same negative impact that would come from posting such a thing.

>All the post was, was to talk about where it came from, what it is and who is in it.

Yes, but why? It's not like their was a huge demand for it or anything, or that anyone would want to look at this besides people who are already fans of the stories. It just came across as you trying to shill it out, and I'm sorry if I sound rude here but if honestly felt like it.

>Not about how much I suck dick, nor whose. Over the year, metric fuckloads of TCB stories have been posted. Most of them are utter shit, most of the rest complete shit, and only a few of them are really worth reading.

Can't argue with you there.

>I don't count mine much, and I know you all hate Chat's stuff, but her stuff (for better or worse) is amongst the better written.

Grammatically speaking, yes. Otherwise...

>It was to celebrate a group of stories which (love it or hate it) is popular. Notice how it was "anniversary", not "the daily in-your-face-you-must-love-it" post). It will, I can almost definitely assure you, never happen again.

That's the thing though; are they honestly that popular? I mean I don't have a graph to look at the numbers or anything, but it seems like one of those weird sub-fandoms in a fandom from an objective standpoint. Like Fallout: Equestria once again, though I think the latter is miles more popular if the fact that no one will shut up about it when it's brought up rule is any indication.

>At the time of writing that post, most of the stories in the entire TCB multiverse were by Chatoyance (at least in terms of words). It was unavoidable, so I did something which suited two purposes.
a) I put her stuff on the end of the anniversary post because, as the single biggest body of related works, it shows the universe in the most detail. Linked to the other posts, you don't have to read her stuff at all if you don't want to, but you also don't have to go wading through self-insert mary sue hell to find something readable. Most will be content with the founding fics.

Does it really need to be showed in detail though? Like, you make it seem like you have to get the exact message to people, but who cares? Can't you just throw an assortment of lesser known authors or something, maybe commission some stories from one or both sides of the pro/anti-TCB argument? I know I'm sounding more than a tad pedantic here, but this whole discussion just boils down to my question: "Why was that even a thing?" Was there really such a demand for a post like that?

>b) now her stuff is there, it won't go anywhere else, so those who skip the anniversary post and go for the updates don't have to deal with the entire update compilation being her stuff.

That's the thing though, why not just leave things at the update compilation? Once again, if you wanted to keep adding stories, just post them there. Why else would you post the anniversary thing than to shill out TCB? That's the main question right now.

>I didn't want the compilation post being entirely dedicated to one author, and that felt like the best way of doing it. That's kind of my bad for not updating, but then I don't update because it rustles jimmies, is so full of shit anyway, and lacks any kind of coherent place to keep track of said updates.

Well maybe those people should go to the FIMfiction Conversion Bureau group? Maybe make a post showcasing all those groups on this site, include a short summary for each of them and what they feature? Like, show other groups on this site as well, instead of seeming like you're showcasing just one. This is more a random idea, since more cooperation between this site and EqD would be cool, even though there already is a lot.

>Why were TCB fics posted at all? Well, they were a community thing, were generally enjoyed and (more importantly) happened rarely and never got a separate post. I'm sorry if you think they didn't deserve even the once-a-month-if-that slot that they got, but I can assure you, everybody hates something. I have been told fanfiction is the cancer killing the brony fandom, others hate those stupid "best pony" posts that PK does, still others think Seth is a massive gay faggot sellout and generally autism and assburgers rules the day. Eh, what can I say.

The thing is though, it just came out of nowhere. Sure it was the anniversary thing, but EqD said before they wanted next to nothing to do with TCB. Then that came up. And with the fact that I had just gotten off a binge of awful stories at that time, and another argument with Chat, that really pissed me off to see. So I was angry at the time, which probably incited my hatred of it, yet it just seemed so random and needless. The fact that you're site profile describe you as the "Conversion Bureau expert" doesn't help.

In all honesty I also find most of the random shit EqD posts downright asinine, but that's another topic entirely.

>I'm sorry you think it's the literary equivalent of hitler coming back to life, raping your dog and running over your grandparents - to be brutally honest, I can see where plenty of the hate comes from.

The fact that you use such an extreme hyperbole shows that you probably don't, but I'll hold off judgement for later. Suffice to say, I don't say TCB is for Nazis because I think the people are ACTUAL NAZIS. I think that because the beliefs and ethics spouted by these stories echo a lot of radical Fascist opinions of the time, and I wonder if you all honestly get that.

> I don't think it's worth it since I don't know what you want to do with it all - see TCB never posted on EqD again?

Preferably, but that'd be spiteful. I don't want to come as the guy that think his way of doing of things is best more than I already do, but maybe features on other popular stories and universes? Because with Fallout: Equestria, I can get why that's so featured; it's popular, long, and grimdark as fuck, which caters to all the fandoms 'high-standards'. But the TCB is only one of those things, grimdark, and that's only from the perspective of a good number of people who read those stories. The whole post, once again, came off as incredibly needless and shilling.

>You've basically got your wish. I'm sick of posting stuff that is so vehemently disliked when the majority is shit and the small percentage that isn't is the aforementioned baby-raping horror. Okay? You win. The stories will go on, but I don't think I'll be posting to EqD again. Maybe I will, but probably not.

Hey, even I've got to admit this, but likes are subjective. If you're referring to what you usually post on EqD, well most of that's grammatically competent and at least bearable. If you don't like that, and want to post CB stories, maybe it's because that's your own non-objective views influencing you? I mean, it seems from your post that you want to post a lot more TCB stories. Which doesn't exactly hurt my whole 'shilling' argument.

>* I like to take the worlds that are presented on their own terms, as a literary device. If this means that the humans presented are overly stupid and evil, then I'll shrug and move on, I'm not going to have a spaccy fit over it. Yes, however, I do and have flipped all the tables everywhere when it gets bad enough. I won't read Ayn Rand, and the way it comes over, you feel Chat's work is the pony equivalent of Ayn Rand, faulty philosophy and all. If that's so, I totally understand your hate. I think it's silly, but then I'm getting worked up over Ayn Rand. Not much of a difference, really.

First off, Spaccy? What the hell?

Actually, the Ayn Rand comparison is... disturbingly valid. Fuck.

>* the "glorious revolution" as it is called led directly to the devolution of power (from a tiny elite to a larger but still tiny elite) and led, through centuries, to the rise of the middle class and the current western forms of democracy. I never said it "vanished poor people", but it did (over the course of centuries remember) lead to far less of them. Please, don't misquote me. If I fuck up, I'll apologize, but not for something I didn't say.

The thing is though, it didn't really marginalize the poor of society, it just changed the hands of the throne to one puppet King of Parliament to another from the Netherlands. You still had the army, the House of Lord all controlled by nobles.

And if you want to base a start to the beginning of western democracy, that'd hardly the best source. I'd rather say the Swiss Confederation, or, as cliche as it sounds, the American Revolution and the literary sources behind it. Though if we're going back that far, we might as well say the Magna Carta started this all...

If I did misread your intent, I'm sorry, that is how it came out to me though. If that wasn't what you meant though, I really am sorry for misreading you.

>do I come to the defense of Chatoyance when she's being beaten on? Yes, I do.

Beaten up in this case being 'anyone making any criticism of her works'. Look at the comments for Ten Minutes: Aftermath and ask yourself if she's really being beaten up, or having a lot of questions asked of her that she refuses to answer.

> I don't think it's worth attacking her over stupid stories, and I honestly don't get why some persistent readers cannot separate her, her stories and real life.

Hey, I never insulted her personally, and no one else I know of has. If they did direct attacks at her identity personally, that's fucking awful, and I don't associate with those people at all. But all I've done, as crudely worded as it can be at times, is decry her stories and the responses she posts to them. And that's the majority of responses I've seen against her as well.

> Is her life full of crazy and drama? Apparently, yes, and some of the people who really hate her have followed her here.

Well if they have, don't consort us with them. We haven't attacked her for being a transsexual, we haven't attacked her for the mistakes she's made in the past, we're criticizing her stories. That's the basis of most of the discussions here.

>I've read the ED page, it's as lolworthy as anything else on that website. Hell, even Sethisto has a page there. Honestly, ponies made Seth normal, if his history is at all legit. I would take anything written there with a grain of salt, so just think twice before dragging up incendiary bullshit. And that's all I want to say about that.

I have read the ED pages for both of them myself. Say what you will about ED, but their information is accurate if you look past the petty insults. And honestly, for Chat she keeps fueling the fires against her. Just for example, the quotes page on her own website is mostly quotes from herself. That level of ego and self-aggrandizement annoys me to no end, and I see it constantly from her and other TCB writers. And if we're speaking honestly here, Sethisto and the other EqD moderators can be creepy motherfuckers at times. Not saying they're bad people, just that they're close to crossing the line at times.

>* I'm a pre-reader for EqD, I do my best to make sure that the fics I read and approve really deserve to be on EqD. I've been feeling bad about posting a lot of the TCB fics because they are not worthy most of the time.

Wait, what do you mean here? Posting them on EqD? Because if you're posting them on the compilation post, that's fine, that's where they belong. I don't see where they were posted otherwise save in the anniversary post.

>Not even mine. I'm not that much of a dick. I started the training grounds on ponychan, shepherding it through the first handful of incarnations. I'm proud of what it is now, proud to have been there to start it, but I totally acknowledge that others made it that much better.

Don't go to ponychan at all, can't say anything about this honestly.

>I started the ask a pre-reader anything thread on ponychan - drop by there to ask us about stuff or just call us out on what you think is bullshit, okay?

Yes, like that'll turn out well. As well as this conversation will turn out probably.

> I've written a few well-received stories, some which I think are patently atrocious and should be burned in a van, and a smattering of fics I think are objectively "good".

Yeah, some of you're work is good, some not so much. I could probably go into a more in-depth thing if you actually wanted, but 1) I've posted too fucking much already and 2) Fuck I have too much on my plate already.

>Most of my fics get 4.5-star ratings, my average gets me five stars on EqD and I have the lol-worthy claim to fame of a six-star story. Apparently people like what I write. Does that mean anything? No, not really. This is the internet. It means precisely fuck all. I write because I enjoy it, I pre-read because I want to help and if others enjoy the results then I am glad.

That's good for you! I'm happy that I got a 5-star story on EqD, even if the star is meaningless, it's just nice to know people like your work. And I like getting criticism too! I wish I got more of it honestly! And criticism is never a bad thing, it helps others. And that's what this group really is, criticism of something we all don't care for. Sure we might be biased, but can you honestly say none of us here has a good point about the flaws in TCB?

>It saddens me when groups like this target specifically me for abuse, especially when done behind my back.

You're acting like I kicked your puppy or something. I called you out for several acts related to the TCB universe, most of which is valid, but some I admit I fucked up or misread. It's not like I'm saying you kill babies or anything, I'm criticizing your actions in response to others. We're not some secret anti-TCB Illuminati group, as much as I'd like that. And I'm responding to your arguments cleanly. You were the one to respond with a shitty image macro. Don't act like you're the better person here.

> So come on, give me a chance. One question at a time, and I'll do my best to respond.

I have, and I'm trying to respond nicely. You're actually giving effort at this, and I'm taking the effort to respond. Even when you're post is ridiculously long and taking up too much of my time for my tastes, I'm trying to give you a chance here since you seem to genuinely want to give your viewpoint. Which I love, I love that you're at least trying! That instantly improves my opinion of you a lot. Sure, I really don't care for your self-pitying 'You're all abusing me!' talk, but you're trying, and I'll try back.

306065
>If this is still the wrong place to have a discussion, then I'm sorry, and just kindly leave me out of it, or make sure others do too.

You're yelling at him for telling you to abide by the sites rules and the general rules of courtesy here.

Please don't be a dick. I'm trying with you, so please try back.

305978 First Cloudhammer, now you? Invading a group because it doesn't like your stories? You're a real fucking class act, you know that?

306077

Call me morbidly curious, but other then that one thread, where has Cloudhammer posted? He didn't seem to be to aggravated by this group.

306077, they have they right to be here as long as they remain civil.

306065, 306074 if you want to argue about each other's points, take it outside this topic. Or preferably to private messaging. That's an order!

---------------------

Great, this meltdown of a argument all started because of Da Bunnana King's post and then midnightshadow's image macro response. I'd love to be able to wipe posts in these forums.

Anyone else find TCB stories they want to criticize?

306101

I'd like to counter with how we're actually talking about TCB now, at least I think we are. But maybe another forum topic just to debate TCB fans and anti-fans against each other would work better... Since I have no interest in this debate if midnight's not up to it, I'll let him decide how to continue.

306101
306106
If you're interested in real debate, then please set up a forum and I'll copy/paste these over and remove. If you just delete them, they're gone and so am I.

I do actually have legitimate grievances with many TCB fics, and I only came here and commented because of comments by others about me which have nothing to do with a) my TCB works or b) TCB in general. Fair's fair. Since I'm playing catchup, I also apologize for posting long answers in what is clearly the wrong place.

306119 "(really, I'm an army of one now?)"

There's nitpicking, then there's being an asshole, then there's this.

"I didn't know I wasn't allowed to dislike TCB."

The first thing you did was spam an image macro, don't even try to pretend you're here for constructive purposes.

"I had a tidy little snappy come-back"

I'll bet.

306119

Well that was incredibly long.

How about since I'd rather not waste more minutes on this (Not an insult to you, more to myself) I'll just sum up my response thusly; I disagree with you on a lot of points. I believe no one insulted Chat in that thread that didn't either hit the nail on the head or apologize (The latter is the case of the man comment). The idea that humans aren't like this has been espoused already, with the main idea being 'We wouldn't let a soulless, one-world corporate government take over, and then all just give up on being human like that.' I find emoticons pointless and distracting to the conversation, plus your wording in that quote still seemed bad, but whatever.

I think the main problem is that TCB stories come in two extremes. There's the rabid pro pony stories that are common, and recently I've seen a lot of anti-TCB stories that are very pointed in proving all the flaws in the universe, but don't exist for much reason other than that. It's a good balance for the former, but a decent, not exactly morally gray, but just plain balanced story is impossible to find.

And I think Starman and I was referring to you entering the thread with only an image macro. Which, you haven't really apologized for yet. That's what I'm more mad about than anything honestly; The fact that you're not really trying to debate the pros of TCB stories and why we're wrong, but that you're mainly here because you were insulted. While I can sort of understand the sentiment, the reasoning makes you seem kind focused on the wrong thing here, to say it in the kindest way I can. Also you copied my same point twice in response to different things, probably by accident.

To summarize the incredibly long summary, I think you're wrong, but you're at least debating it the right way now and presenting yourself much better, which makes me rescind all insults directed your way before.

306101

As much as I know this'll turn out badly, what do you think Velkaden? A public forum to debate this?

306122 I have an immature sense of humour. Dumb image macros make me laugh as much as dick and fart jokes do. I guess I should delete the post, but to be honest, apparently I rustle jimmies. Who knew. I guess I can say sorry, but I still giggle. I think it was justified for reasons already given, so eh.

I did copy the wrong point twice, however, but you get the gist.

You know what TCB fic I liked? The Humanification Bureau. It was kinda dumb, and short, and thin on plot, but it did what it was supposed to do, and it told the story better than the original in a lot less words. I also dislike "Change of Life". Why? Because the whole story is mane/OC shipping, with a human OC at that. The story itself is told relatively well - it moves along at a reasonable pace, is self-consistent and isn't to bad grammatically, but the whole subtext of I want to bone rainbow dash grates on me as much as the whole "and then twilight was human, lets have sex" from "sidelines", which is another fic I highly dislike. I dislike that one for the paper-thin plot so that the OC can make out with Twilight, the gary stu main character, the grating misanthropy and lack of world-building.

306122, 306120

All right, here is the topic for debate: http://www.fimfiction.net/index.php?view=group&group=714&thread=1786

I like alot of other pepole hated Ten Minutes: Aftermath
It has alot of plot holes and just made me cringe when i read it.
It just removed all of the creativeness of the orignal story and left me feeling worse than the orignal ending.

Side note this is realy turning in to a pissing contest.

306128
Be aware that it was part of an event to write endings (or alternative endings) to others' fics, so (and I know, you didn't say this) "how dare she post it on the original" is not a valid criticism.

As an alternative ending, it was fine, within itself. Personally I disliked it because I disliked how it messed with the original story's raison d'etre. I like the "cuddly zombie horde" world as a setting, where the ponies are just so... crazy. In it, they are xenocidal in their drive to convert humans by force. Taking that and replacing it with shipping, righteousness of a god-queen, the futility of struggle and the ultimate reality that they were right completely turns the setting on it's head. That was the point of the story, but I didn't like it. I can't help but see parallels in modern belief systems. Imagine if those suicide bombers were right. Ugh. Now that is horrifying.

306124
>rustling jimmies

You're stealing /r/SRS's thing dammit. >:(
I'd say it wasn't justified, but whatever, I don't care.

The Humanifacation Bureau felt just as forced and unnecessary, with literally just the names of the ponies and humans switched around to tell the same point from another side. Ugh, Change of Life was godawful. Someone recommended it to me, and it would've been good, if it stopped focusing on the fucking OC/Rainbow Dash ship like you said. That's the problem with OC shipping in general, the story tries too hard to ship the OC without even making them a likeable character. It skips the 'development' part of character development.

306133
I'm sorry, but posting the link to a fix fic to the original story in its comments section is a dick move. It's like if a chef made a small buffet for a group of diners, and then someone in that group goes 'nnnnope! Time to get some real food in here,' and calls for a pizza delivery to be sent in the place of the buffet.

That's an insult, no matter how you look at it. It isn't tolerated in the real world, it shouldn't be tolerated on the internet as well.

306412
No, you don't get it: it was part of an event. You don't get to be outraged by something all involved parties agreed to. That's as if two guys called for pizza, and the one guy changes his order to a kebab, and a random passer-by goes MMNOPE, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE PIZZA ORIGINALLY, HOW DARE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND. That isn't tolerated in the real world, and it shouldn't be tolerated on the internet.

306423 Did you even read GIULIO's post? He wasn't objecting to the fic's creation, he was objecting to the author using the original fic's comment section to advertise it.

It wouldn't be the first time, she did the same thing in my comments section with a different fic.

I haven't read Chatoyance's PER story, so I'm going to be generous here.

I assume what she was trying to do was write a comedic bad guy duo, but the views she expressed elsewhere led people to assume they were supposed to be heroes.

There's so much crazy shit flying around in the TCB community that no one knows what to take at face value. I found this out the hard way.

306519 Having read the first chapter, I honestly have no fucking clue as to just what she was going for. I'm guessing she was going for a sort of Team Rocket kind of thing, but the thing that made Team Rocket work was that they were failures, and they actually had some good traits to them. Here, it's two psychopaths forcibly transforming kids into ponies against their will.

306505 it seems a lot of folk are failing reading comprehension 101. Read what I wrote again.

306590 I can't read because you cut out my eyes for my over use of commas and the improper use of your, you're and potato.

I'm surprised no one has call me out on my shitty TCB writing... I feel offended that no one has called me a miserable pile of shit that doesn't deserve to write.

306708 yours is just terribly schlocky self-insert mary sue masturbation with bad grammar, it doesn't rape so many puppies or run over grandparents.

306423
Here's the full comment that Chat left on the page of Ten Minutes:

"This is my answer to this story (HEE! HEE! HEEE!!!!)

Ten Minutes: Aftermath"

Now what exactly in this comment makes you think that it wasn't meant to look like a middle finger to the readers, story and the author?

Maybe she wasn't trying to sound dickish, but her tact is atrocious.

306769
Tone doesn't travel through text well. I can't put it simpler than "he agreed to it".

306775
You've said it: tone doesn't translate well through text. If it does, either you put in the effort to get it across, or you screwed up royally.

Still, for those who didn't know (I didn't know originally when she posted that) it was part of an event, so I suppose that it became more of an insult to those who read the original and happened to see that there all of a sudden. All of that could've been avoided if Chat didn't type it like that and mentioned about the challenge and that SteelBrony was fine with it.