Well, I doubt there will be much to talk about, but this is here just in case

7238278
I'll start something I guess

Why do or don't you like the finale, specifically in regards to Discord's involvement?

7238287
Huh. Well, if we're doing this.
Not involving Discord: The ending of the end was a perfect parallel and evolution to Equestria's two major founding moments: The uniting of the tribes and the Defeat of Discord- while the transfer of power from the old regimes to the Alicorns isn't detailed, Celestia somewhat implied that defeating Discord marked when they took over.

Anyway, it symbolized Twilight's reign being what Equestria's founding meant, but on a grander scale: not just uniting the ponies, but all the creatures of the world, setting aside old grudged to help aid new allies. And like with Discord, it required a great threat: Three of them. And for all the people that decry Cozy Glow's fate, none seem to realize her symbolism. Tirek is a force of destruction, a primal being dedicated only to his own personal power. Chrysalis is the Despot, a manipulative queen that nearly brought a military victory against Equestria twice. But these are two ancient forces. Cozy Glow is not. She's a reminder that all the great threats are not just from the past, but from the future as well. And she embodies this more than Sunset or Starlight, not only because she has no desire to be redeemed, but because her whole ambition is power for the sake of power. And people tend to forget that she was the ones manipulating the pegasi into distrusting the unicorns and earth ponies.

And, on a subtle note, the destruction of Grogar's magic symbolized the last great tie from the darkest past, allowing the world to move towards a greater future.

But as for Discord himself? It added every ounce of fuel to my headcanon that Discord has been manipulative most if not all of the events in canon- he admits to it for season 9, but I've felt like he's been doing it at least since season 4. Twilight's reaction to thinking that the threats weren't real because Discord set them up is very....odd, seeing as Discord went out of his way to not help, and the threats very much were real. And in the end, it worked: Discord got them to realize that Harmony and its power isn't in the elements, or the tree, but in them.

Just like with Twilight's Kingdom, I'm never truly convinced that Discord losing his powers wasn't part of his own plan.

Still, nobody seems to comprehend the meaning of this: Discord didn't have to do any of this. He could have simply let Twilight and the others rely on him, and become the hero. Instead, he got them to unlock the power to do the Rainbow-Laser WITHOUT the elements, WITHOUT the tree. It was, ultimately, the most selfless thing Discord ever did. Debate the morality and intellegenc of it all one wants, the fact is that it worked and in no way did this ever benefit himself.

And please think about how that endgame would play out if he didn't lose his powers. Cause assuming that wasn't part of the plan, than that means that Discord was willing to risk getting accidentally turned to stone again just to give Twilight the confidence and reputation to fill and surpass the void left by Celestia and Luna.

7238291
I never thought of it that deeply, but I respect it. I've always felt that the idea that Discord intentionally lost to Tirek in season 4 was a disservice to the character. Yes, it adds fuel to the chess master concept, but it also takes away important character development. If Discord planned the whole thing, then he didn't really need to learn a lesson in the first place.

As for the finale itself...I gotta say that I'm not totally keen on Discord's final major act in the show being him releasing warlords. We know his end goal and all, and it is in character, but man I would've loved to see Discord struggle against a foe for once. Even if he intentionally threw the fight in the end to let the girls have the spotlight, it would've been fun to see him at least pretend to have a serious fight with Grog.

The series finale isn't bad and you make tons of good points, but I feel cheated out of my epic Discord vs Grog battle.

7238588
Look, I get the idea of liking him "learn a lesson" with the Tirek thing, but I have a really hard time believing that he didn't plan that when he spoon fed Twilight how to find all the other five keys RIGHT before he went traitor, giving Twilight a betrayal to forgive and get the last key. It screams too much to me that he was manipulating things to help Twilight open the harmony box. This isn't me trying to bend canon, it just seems too convenient to not be intentional on some level, having do all that in the same episode.

Granted, like with Pridecord, I can accept canon as is if it suites a fic idea.

On the other note: Oh no, we can agree on that. I love the finale, but I will never deny that it would have been better with a climatic show down between Discord and Grogar, or Discord and Supped-Up Trio.

7238594
You're right, his comments are suspiciously well timed. Perhaps there's a middle ground between mastermind and valuable lesson we can agree on?

I always took his mention of the key in a similar light to him helping Twilight with the plunderseeds. He pointed the girls towards Zecora and pushed Twilight to go help her friends, but always did so it the rudest way possible. This could be seen as his way of being 'friendly' while getting a reaction out of the girls; he gets the best of both words this way, both causing chaos and helping Fluttershy out.

Assuming that he had this same thought process in the season 4 finale, it isn't too crazy to assume that he intended to help in a similar manner again, as it would explain why he was showing Twilight how to get the keys. However, when a seemingly better opportunity for fun arose, Discord took it. What's more fun than treading the line between ally and foe so you can keep your one friend? Totally forgoing that line and making an evil friend, thus allowing you to have friends and villainy in the same breath.

It doesn't matter much in the end, as I'm always in favor of diverse headcanons and character interpretations within fandom, but it is fun to discuss.

7238621
Very possible, and true. I just prefer Master Manipulators in general. Blame Aizen for that. XP

I loved the finale, for the villain alliance, the Avengers: Endgame final battle, and the villains being turned to stone, including Chrysalis, which I waited 7 years for. Even longer than Thanos.

I was a little disappointed Grogar turned out to be Discord, and think it was stupid for him to lead the villains to the bell and not keep an eye on them despite how obviously untrustworthy all three of them are (especially Tirek, who betrayed him once before), but I don't hold it against him because he did everything he could to try to make it right and I think he learned from this and won't do it again. Plus he ran from Grogar's lair all the way to Canterlot on foot. And it took them longer to forgive him for this than any of the other villains that reformed, most infamously including Starlight.

Honestly I'd say he regressed worse in A Matter of Principals - at least then he had malicious intentions.

7238588
Technically his final act was turning them to stone.

7238291
I agree about Cozy Glow. She is most likely what Sombra was like as a colt, except he waited longer to put his evil plans into motion.

7295927
In complete and utter fairness, I think Cozy Glow simply had more oppurtunity at her age than Sombra: he had to grow his powers to be able to mass-mind slave AND neutralize the Crystal Heart. Cozy Glow got lessons from Tirek, all the information she needed from Twilight, the Young Six unknowingly giving her access to the Roots of Harmony,(or at least not knowing she was evil at the time) and there were a LOT of artifacts in the School of Friendship. Combine that with Cozy Glow apparently having enough social skills to fool Starlight- who, lets be perfectly honest, had social brainwashing skills only surpassed by Discord's Discording.

I think we(myself invluded) sometimes forget that Cozy inserted herself into the School with the expressed intent of excuting that plan in some shape or form.

7295946
Exactly, she was planning this from the beginning. She didn't misinterpret the friendship lessons, and nor did they motivate her to change her ways.