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I apologize if it sounded like I was taking your idea and making it look like it hadn't been brought up before. I'm just trying to tie all my thoughts together into one post and that was a last second addition to it. I'll edit it to something like "A Teacher's Encouragement". I also was curious if anyone else could see possible parallels between Shifu/Tai Lung and Celestia/Sunset and if that had been explored more in the first film could that have salvaged Sunset's character from "generic alpha bitch". Even a villain song explaining her motives would of been fine.

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Yeah it's pretty much classic Shifu/ TaiLung. Problem is, if we added another 15 mins to EQG1 to expound on Sunset's similar backstory, it would feel like it's really ripping off Kung Fu Panda. Even though the trope itself is oooooold.

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I've never really thought about this much before, but I might have an idea not seen in the thread yet. (Yes, I know it's an old one, but it's still an unanswered question, right?)

Any discussion of this of course has to tie into Sunset's parentage and background, as well as explaining why she doesn't seem to have anyone to go back to (even for a visit) in Equestria. So family must be either dead (ideally before she went through the mirror), estranged or just nonexistent. I've gone with "all of the above" just for redundancy, as well as taking inspiration from some of your posts and trying to contrast Twilight.

In my new headcanon, Sunset's single mother was a low-level palace servant called Sunbeam, a pony Celestia saw around all the time but didn't know personally. She had landed the job as a last gift from her former noble lover before his marriage, since she could hardly remain on his estate with that child of hers where his new wife might see it. Having reached for the sun and been burned, her one major flaw as a parent was that she strongly suppressed her daughter's ambition - thinking she would ever amount to anything would only get her in trouble. Not that the young Sunset needed any help - she would often be found in places she shouldn't be, and no amount of spankings could dampen her intense curiosity.

I don't know the details of how she met Celestia yet, but it definitely involved trespassing in the Palace and some impressive magic for a filly her age - perhaps she was so worried about getting caught this time that she "attacked" the first pony to find her and it just happened to be the Princess?

In any case, her mother was absolute mortified that this time she was brought home not by the Guard but by the monarch of Equestria herself, and on top of that she was suggesting that Sunset try out for the School for Gifted Unicorns. Well, a mere maid could hardly defy such a suggestion, but it was made quite clear to Sunset that she was going to fail, understand?

However,being congratulated by the Princess for her magic had lit the sparks of self-worth in Sunset (while the accompanying scolding for recklessness had gone in one ear and out the other.) Even though she had never received any proper magical education, she passed anyway and then requested to board despite living in Canterlot. They let her stay weeknights, which made for some awkward weekends over the next few years before Sunbeam came down with a terminal illness - they reconciled a little at the end, but not enough to erase Sunset's bitterness towards anyone who stood in the way of her ambition.

It was at her mother's funeral that Celestia approached Sunset - she had been keeping an eye on her at CSGU, but hadn't wanted to aggravate the strained relationship between mother and daughter. Sunset gladly threw herself into her new studies, both as a way of forgetting her mother and proving her wrong - and perhaps replacing her while she was at it, because in many ways the Princess and Sunbeam were not that different ponies. Both were skilled socializers who could easily charm ponies, both had regrets in their past they would rather not talk about - but one had encouraged Sunset's ambition and curiosity while the other had tried to quash it , and the former had ruled the whole country for nearly a thousand years while the latter had spent most of her too-short life scrubbing toilets for a living. Sunset knew which side she was going to end up on, and woe betide anyone who tried to get in her way....

So, any thoughts?

I wrote Sunset as trying to make herself into a weapon to protect Equestria... and making herself a complete monster in the process.
She runs away when Celestia finally sees what her student has become, and Sunset realises that if she'd stay she'd have to fight Celestia and that if she did she would win.

I do assume that Celestia takes students regularly. First of all we've seen her teach classes in the canon show. Second, I would note that Twilight and Co don't seem to be all that famous, at least not by our standards -- partially that's inconsistency of the show itself, of course, but if we assume to be truth in-universe, seems ponies just don't care if you saved the universe a couple of times. Finally, Celestia's student's could be famous bankers, industry captains, scientists, artists, etc, and Mane Six would hardly know them or have reasons to mention them.
As to the specifics of the meeting... I imagine a noodle incident of some sort.

A unicorn filly with a failing cloudwalking spell, the horrified flailing in the weather factory, and the rainbow reservoirs surprisingly easy to topple over... needless to say both my Princess and I were very grateful there weren't any cameras there that day.

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I do assume that Celestia takes students regularly. First of all we've seen her teach classes in the canon show. Second, I would note that Twilight and Co don't seem to be all that famous, at least not by our standards -- partially that's inconsistency of the show itself, of course, but if we assume to be truth in-universe, seems ponies just don't care if you saved the universe a couple of times. Finally, Celestia's student's could be famous bankers, industry captains, scientists, artists, etc, and Mane Six would hardly know them or have reasons to mention them.

I agree she takes students regularly (beyond those at her school, which she hasn't taught at full-time since Luna's banishment) and that they often go on to prestigious positions. I also think she usually takes a decade or so off between each one, though (although it's not exactly that planned.)

Your meeting incident seems interesting ... what do you think of mine?

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Well, it's been several EQG movies since the last post of this thread before being necro'd. I haven't seen the latest one yet (the cruise). But what we have learned since the necro is:
(1) Seems like Sunset really has NO family at all back in Equestria. Granted, the show really likes to pretend parents do not exist, until they do. But for an exile who hasn't seem home for years, the only one Sunset frets over upon returning, is Princess Celestia. I'd say she has no biological family left; or the show will just conveniently never bring it up and let us make up fanon at will.
(2) Celestia was much stricter with Sunset than with Twilight. So that's in line with the IDW comics Fall of Sunset Shimmer.

And... after all these additional MLP seasons and EQG specials... we still have no indication that Celestia took on any personal students other than Twilight and Sunset. And now she's retiring. I haven't seen that episode yet, but I'd say Celestia never did take any personal students pre-Sunset.

And... I wish we had the Kirin much earlier. All those Asian pony societies scattered thoughout FimFiction could have been Kirin, heh. If Silvan elves and Ewoks had babies. Autumn Blaze and her folk are ooooooold, though she doesn't act like it. You can pick up the subtle hints of immortality from the way she references time and events.

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I disagree - Celestia has been around a long time and loves teaching. There would be no reason to mention her prior students, especially since most of them would be long-dead.

Both of your other points fit with my backstory.

And Kirin... kind of annoy me a bit? Too ponylike. Although perhaps I wouldn't have minded so much if they came earlier.

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You can be a high school teacher or university professor for 30 years, taught thousands of classes, but never take on a personal student or live-in apprentice. That's the norm. Celestia doesn't get close to ponies; that's one of her traits seen through an adult viewer lens.

But there's nothing wrong with giving her personal students in fanfics, for the purposes of plot, I suppose. Except I feel it detracts from her character if it's not vital to the fic and nothing is done with it.

Hey, Kirin is at least less pony-like than the curved-horn Asian unicorns. But I suppose the more the merrier. I actually don't mind that Kirin aren't automatically categorized as Asiatic in culture. Where I think Studio DHX messed up is actually with the Saddle Arabians. Earth ponies almost as tall as the princess, but slimmer with different body structure, I'm okay with. But now, a long sharp horn too? Thematically it's messing with the alicorns too much.

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For me, i feel denying her them for 1000+ years detracts from her. (It also makes every "my most faithful student" a pretty harsh burn on Sunset,)And I see Celestia as having many friends and even lovers over the centuries - she's careful about who she gets close too, but she wouldn't have lasted a fraction of a millennium if she was alone.

And I did wonder if there was some ancestral relation between the kirin and Mistmane's folk, (who are absolutely meant to be ponies, by the way.) As for the Saddle Arabians, I'm not sure - I think the staff don't want to confirm one way or the other.

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Then we're just talking about different character preferences. Whereas I'm heavily influenced by Frank Herbert's Dune series, in which the God Emperor lived longer than canon Celestia, and intentionally never had a single friend or lover. In fact, he purposely cultivated a single enemy, cloned to new life whenever the previous version died.

Keep in mind I'm not saying Celestia never had students, or even students she's proud of and remembers. Just that she never had Personal Students, i.e. live-in apprentices. Until canon shows otherwise.

Mistmane's folk are simply Asiatic unicorns, though I wonder if they still exist in modern "Equus". No reason why not. No close relation to Kirin though, who are even-toed ungulates as opposed to odd-toed. The studio did real well with Kirin, keeping them similar to ponies superficially, but giving them all the odd little "medieval unicorn" traits which Equestrian unicorns do not have. Another marker that the Kirin live extremely long and have not felt the moulding hand of evolution as much.

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Yeah -I see Celestia as much more rooted, After all, she saw what being alone did to Luna - and who would stop her? Plus as I said, I envision her as a natural teacher - if she could lay her crown down, then that would be what she did (after a long vacation).

Mistmane's folk are simply Asiatic unicorns, though I wonder if they still exist in modern "Equus". No reason why not

Didn't we see one when Rarity got the flower?

Hmm... shorter, but still uniquely shaped. Still, i'd expect crossbreeding has reduced the traits.

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But as a reader/ viewer, I like my Celestia with her unique side of dramatic tragedy! So being like the God Emperor of Dune suits my interpretation. Until canon shows otherwise. I feel she's at her best as a goddess with a humanpony heart, or more succinctly a Bodhisattva. Hmm, I need to watch Season 9...

Oh, Asiatic unicorns still exist! Cool (spoken as a xeno enthusiast)! And yeah, looks like just as with redheads, the trait is getting "mingled out".

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And I like my Celestia packed with stories of all the ponies she's known. Living that way for a thousand years... I'd think less of her, because it doesn't take a millennium to realise it sucks. And it would make all her concern for Twilight's friendless state a great hypocrisy.

For me, she is a goddess too... but one who's trying hard not to forget that she's also a pony. Because that too might be one of the roots of Luna's corruption - I doubt they had an in-depth discussion about it. And also because, well, she likes having friends, and lovers, and students! They bring pleasure to her life that no amount of cake can.

And if you want tragedy... well, just think of how many she's lost, often before even the brief time she could have hoped for. But she still keeps trying, never stiops connecting* - and that is what shows her divinity and her equinity all in one.

*Well, there were times. History does not remember them well.

4726117 I kind of see that as similar for my headcanon about Sunset and Celestia.