I made it when I was angry. I know this group probably won't make a difference, but I just felt like someone had to say no. Now when ever I post a complaint on a foalcon story, I get down voted straight to hell. I don't know. Life is confusing. Anyway, what do the only two people in this group think.

857872 I think it's good to state your opinions. That's the secondary purpose of this group.

People fail to try to understand why we don't like foalcon, and that's why comments against it would get downvoted.

857872
Well, I joined it when I was angry,

This is a classic example where someone's going to appeal to "love and tolerance", and then the whole thing will derail into an "is that expression bullshit" debate, so let's cut to the quick of that. Pedophilia is morally despicable, as it causes direct harm to the minors involved. The classic counterargument is that a medium such as this (fanfiction about fictional characters that aren't even humanoid) voids all of that guilt as there's no victims, so it is a "safe" medium to explore and potentially enjoy said content. Much as it pains me, I can't argue with that logic, to the extent stated so far.

However. That doesn't mean I enjoy the feeling of association. Here I am—whether I'm just a pony fan, or a romance fan, or a fan of clop, or even a fan of kinky clop—and thanks to a foalcon story appearing in the Featured Box, I'm de facto lumped in with all of them. Yes, there's the option to hide or show mature fics, and enabling that feature definitely carries a "proceed at your own risk" warning, but there's plenty of people for whom X is acceptable, Y is not my cup of tea, but acceptable, and Z is just flat out unacceptable. Since fanfiction about topics like foalcon or rape are ethical bullet-dodges around RL ideologically sensitive topics, it can't surprise anyone that many, many individuals (cloppers and non-cloppers alike) would become outraged that this content is not merely allowed on the site, but is occasionally lauded by the likes of the Featured Box and Popular Stories bar.

There's a difference between stating "you can't write about X ever", and "you can't write about X on my website." The first is censorship of the arts, and (while I'm sure plenty of this is spewed forth with no artistic intent) I still feel morally uncomfortable to embrace censorship on a global level. I sure as hell feel comfortable with the idea of censorship on a single website, though. Let them make their own site, whether "them" is "all deviant works" or "just foalcon". If the presense of this content on the site is harmful to the community (and I feel there's a good argument to be made, there), and if the mods agree (here's the shaky part...), then the mods are under no obligation to humor them. Fimfiction does not need to be a one-stop shop, everything for everypony sort of website. Such websites are infeasible for exactly the reasons broached in this group. Or, see also, why EQD remains a popular news source, yet any sense of site community has fallen apart in the last year or so.

Now when ever I post a complaint on a foalcon story, I get down voted straight to hell.

Slight derail but... obviously. That's like going into a shipping story and saying "I hate this pairing", or going into a character study of a single character and saying "This poni is worstponi." Only fans of the work are reading it, so obviously your opinion is unwelcome there. It would be more disheartening if we were petitioning on neutral turf, like a Knighty news post, and it was getting more downvotes than upvotes there too.

First, I hope I'm not unwelcome here. I was directed here by DbzOrDie, but I don't entirely disagree with your mission here. I don't like seeing foalcon in the feature box, I'm personally dedicated to writing only stories about consenting adult ponies, and I even wrote an age-play story to demonstrate healthy, socially acceptable directions for a fetish like foalcon.

So, no, I don't think you're wrong to start this group.

That being said, I do have concerns about the issue.

For example, I'm a fan of the author Applejinx, and in his past two novels he's had foalcon- at least, sex between two (theoretically) underaged but post-pubescent characters. The sex is undeniably meant to titillate, as is all of the sex in his sprawling series, but it's part of a much larger context of hundreds of thousands of words that are thematically about responsibly exploring sexuality.

While he's never made the feature box, I'd hate to think that the next novel in his series wouldn't even have the chance to get there.

Another example of the potential problems with this issue is Not Now, Big Brother- a story that seriously explores childhood sexual abuse. That one was featured, and it's wonderful to see stories that show subjects like that in the negative light they deserve get that much attention, especially among the foalcon that will persist, feature box or not.

So my question for the founder, and the folks here is; do you really think that a "no foalcon" line is going to be fair to serious authors who use or present clop as part of their stories, which sometimes feature underaged characters? Might it not actually discourage people from writing real stories about these things, in the interest of looking marginally better to the outside world (who, I should point out, still think those of us who read and write clop are creepy as hell anyway)?

866766
Without dissenting opinions, this would just be an echo chamber, so I personally don't mind in the slightest.

If you'll pardon the cheap appeal, I've met Applejinx in person, and while I haven't read Not Now, I've read stories in a similar vein (though Teen-rated) that were thought-provoking and good reads, but which would not survive a "no foalcon" line. Just trying to assert that my dissent isn't blind moral outrage.

The fundamental question you're asking (if I understand) is, if there exists the potential for powerful, well-mastered stories that require foalcon as a sensitive-yet-bold plot point, is it worth banning these good stories from Fimfic, in the interest of preventing the many tasteless stories? Personally, I do think it's worth it.

First, thinking that the story will not be written, or cannot survive, if it is not allowed on Fimfiction, is flawed thinking. Before Fimfiction, EQD did not (and still does not) accept clop of even a vanilla nature, yet those authors managed to find a home and their target audience, and today they're thriving quite nicely. If a new home doesn't exist now, one may exist quite soon. As Fimfiction has become the de-facto home for fanfiction of this community, I do feel that its image, and the comfort of its writers and readers, should at least be considered.

Second, like I mentioned in my above post, I'm willing to abide a lot in a story in the interest of no censorship, but foalcon is simply too ideologically sensitive. There are many people who would be outraged at a well-executed handling of such content (see: all of mainstream entertainment). And for a poorly-executed fic... A bad clopfic is simply a flimsy hook for a titillating scene—the literary transcription of a cheap "pizza boy with extra sausage pizza" type of porno. A bad foalcon fic openly celebrates pedophila. And bad foalcon fics get featured here. On the same website I peddle my own stories on, using the same characters I write with. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to find this upsetting.

Third, yes I know, Sturgeon's Law, 90%. That said, this (a fanfiction site) is a site of predominantly amateurs, and trying to handle ideologically sensitive content in a tasteful manner is, sardonically speaking, hardmode. Even if you only count the well-intentioned, I'm sure there are plenty of green writers who would botch this and end up offending more than they inspire.

So am I calling for censorship? Yes. But from a utilitarian perspective, it's a no-brainer.

867649
I totally understand why you find this upsetting. I personally find it upsetting as well, along with rape fics that get featured. Even as an author of clop fics (maybe especially as an author of clop fics) I recognize many of the reasons this is harmful and sets a bad example.

(My personal crusade is a kind of twisted version of "think of the children"- I know that there are underaged teenagers reading clop fics, and I hate the idea that they're finding these fetishes with no information or acknowledgement that they are delicate issues that can be handled in a healthy way that can be just as sexy. Hence my consensual age play and BDSM angle.)

I totally agree that there are other venues where a story can survive. The problem from my view at least is that it's actually easier for the bad foalcon to survive scattered around the internet than for a serious, non-clop story that features foalcon to get readership there. The people who want the foalcon will go looking for it, and the people who want serious stories won't, so they will never know they're out there.

On the issues of censorship and when it's appropriate, I do understand what you're saying. First, this is a private site, and we already have some censorship (for example, stories that are not about ponies are censored.) It's perfectly within Knighty's rights to censor whatever he wants to. I support this wholeheartedly, and if Knighty woke up tomorrow and decided to ban whatever, for whatever reason, you would not catch me throwing a hissyfit.

So the discussion here is solely about whether it's a good idea to advocate for the censorship of foalcon on a private site. I do understand both sides of this issue, and while I can't in good conscious advocate for it, I think you guys here are good people and trying to do a good thing. If that makes sense.

However, I do want to bring up two more practical arguments. One is, where is the line? We don't technically have ages for any of the characters. I've heard ages for the CMC guessed at between 6 and 12, and the Mane Six guessed anywhere from 14 to 30. On top of that, some authors use horse ages. And Faust has specifically refused to pin anything down.

On the upper end of the CMC ages, they aren't far from only requiring a slight aging up to reach a low-ball age of consent of 14 or 16. On the lower end of the Mane Six ages, you've effectively killed all clop on the site. You and I might have our opinions that put the CMC solidly as foalcon and the Mane Six solidly as consenting, but how do the mods set a standard that most people will agree to?

The second is both practical and philosophical. Your stated goal in doing this is to convince people that this is not what bronies are about. My question back to you is: if we, as a community, have a readership that makes this popular, then how do you think we're going to convince people that we do not have a readership that makes this popular? As little as we might like it, it's the community that puts those fics in the feature box. In your conversation with DbzOrDie, you used the example of someone turning off the mature filter to see "what bronies are really like. . ."

Well? This is what our readership is really like. Obviously not all of them. But enough to make a majority that puts a foalcon fic in the feature box over the other options presented. Basically, we know the following things: People write, and will continue to write, foalcon. People will publish foalcon somewhere. And people will find the foalcon published. It seems inevitable that people with enough curiosity and internet savvy to turn off the mature filter will figure out that there is foalcon out there. It's only a google search away.

Once again, I'm not trying to troll here. I'm just interested. Applejinx actually asked me if I'd like to sit on the clop panel at BronyCon (I told him I'd love to, but I'm not making announcements yet since I don't think it's finalized) so I'm interested in totally understanding your POV, so I can talk about it fairly if it comes up. I'm the sort of person who likes to make sure people understand all the sides of an issue.

868074
(I don't mean to be hijacking the discussion here. I know the group's tiny, but if anyone else wants to hop in, by all means.)

So in the interest of full disclosure, I did come off a particularly bad trip recently. I was encouraged to read a series, the pitch boiling down to "yes, it's about some really messed up foalcon, but it's still a great story." Now, I'm from the internet. I've seen some shit, and some of it's even saved to my hard drive. And yes, I've dabbled in mature content on this website. That said, I had to quit this story less than 1k in, feeling physically ill. It was the first time in quite a while that I'd been offended* on that deep a level. So if my earlier posts were emotionally charged, that's why.

*And yep, totally aware that being offended is personal, not an objective truth. However, given the illegality of the actions described, I don't think I'm the only person who finds this content inappropriate.

Lemme hop to the issues you raised.

One is, where is the line? ... On the upper end of the CMC ages, they aren't far from only requiring a slight aging up to reach a low-ball age of consent of 14 or 16. On the lower end of the Mane Six ages, you've effectively killed all clop on the site.

I mean, we're talking about text here. If I say "Apple Bloom is 18" in this story, but make no effort whatsoever to age-up her mentality, there's nothing you can do to prove me a liar. And for the Mane Six, I've seen compelling arguments putting them as young as 15.

This is what our readership is really like. Obviously not all of them. But enough to make a majority that puts a foalcon fic in the feature box over the other options presented.

Ehh... without whining too much about the Featured Box, I don't think it's safe to draw any sort of conclusion about a mandate. At time of writing, there's currently a fic in there with < 200 views. But I'm just skirting around the issue; we both know there's foalcon clopfics with 5-10k views or more.

Basically, we know the following things: People write, and will continue to write, foalcon. People will publish foalcon somewhere. And people will find the foalcon published.

Oh, to be sure. I recognize that trying to censor all the internet is facepalm-worthy naivete. That's why I limit the scope of my argument to just this website.

So, you can't definitively identify it, it has an established readerbase, and if it's pushed off here it'll just spring up elsewhere. What do?

I was recently philosophizing with a friend on the topic, and the issue of "serious, non-clop stories that features foalcon" was brought up. What makes these feel less offensive than clopfics? The conclusion we reached was intent. Is it portraying this in a realistic, traumatic light? Is it crucial to the themes or character development? Or is it simply meant to be a titillating celebration of pedophilia? Clearly, this has bearing on the literary merit of the story, and that impacts the acceptability of using sensitive subject matter. Attempting to make art using X is typically a better justification than using X just for shits.

Okay, so now, not only do moderators have to guestimate whether all characters are above the age of consent, they also have to gleam authorial intent. Well, here at Fimfic at least, the staff is far too small to approach that kind of undertaking. That's why I advocated the blanket ban. If it look dubious, block it and let the author fight for their appeal.

Ultimately, it comes down to rationale behind the policies. EQD made the decision that, as pretty much THE site for news, they don't want to embrace mature content (usually) and they have reasons for doing so. I may or may not agree with those reasons, but they're well-founded. Fimfiction, being pretty much THE site for fanfiction, decided it was okay with mature content, hidden by default, and they have reasons for doing so. There's also no censorship based on the maturity of its content level; all censorship currently applies to format issues (no scripts, no MST3K) or non-mature-related content issues (must contain ponies, no meta). There's... probably reasons for this? Like "censorship is bad" or "censorship is hard to enforce". I don't feel it's well-justified; per above, I personally feel the site would be better as a whole without.

So the discussion here is solely about whether it's a good idea to advocate for the censorship of foalcon on a private site.

While I understand the challenges you raised, this point seems silly, however. Pro-rape and pro-foalcon groups can and do exist on this website, so questioning whether an anti-foalcon group should exist seems like folly, so long as it serves as a healthy means of expressing our displeasure. (As an example of unhealthy means, while I've clearly stated my displeasure of foalcon clop, these stories are technically allowed under the site rules, so shitposting in their comments section would not be appropriate.) Enforcement may be difficult as you point out, and neither pro- nor anti- hold a unanimous consensus, but I don't think either of those are good reasons to stifle discussion nor expression. Nothing personal; it's just that "it's a hard problem so don't even try to tackle it" isn't really a stance I can embrace.

Once again, I'm not trying to troll here. I'm just interested. Applejinx actually asked me if I'd like to sit on the clop panel at BronyCon (I told him I'd love to, but I'm not making announcements yet since I don't think it's finalized) so I'm interested in totally understanding your POV, so I can talk about it fairly if it comes up. I'm the sort of person who likes to make sure people understand all the sides of an issue.

Certainly! It's refreshing to discuss this topic without one side blindly shouting "THIS IS A LITTLE KIDS' SHOW" and the other side blindly shouting "WELCOME TO THE INTERNET"

EDIT: One point I forgot, possibly one of the more important ones.

Your stated goal in doing this is to convince people that this is not what bronies are about.

It's not about trying in vain to prove that no bronies are pedophiles. Every fandom has a deviant subculture. It's about the mods of this site, and thus the fanfiction community they represent, implicitly condoning the actions within these stories. When that site is THE site for fanfiction in the fandom, this carries the implication that the entire fandom condones these acts, when in reality it's only a small subculture that's actually reading/faving those stories.

866766 I actually don't know anymore. People are just going to keep posting them becouse of this whole "everything is expectable" trend that's going on. It feel's like nothing is sacred. Theoretically a good story can be made with those element's in it. But most of the time the main point of those stories is views and boners. I guess I'm just mad that all this deviant stuff is overshadowing all the other stories out their.

Also, the author of Not now big brother, rightes very taboo stories and get's unprecedented amount of views. You can see why that can be a little discouraging for a writer like me who would never right anything like things she and darf wright. In order to get big on this sight, you need to sell your soul. A nice clopfic here and their is exeptable, but when you limit yourself that, then you have to ask yourself a question. "Do you actually like MLP for the characters, plot, and setting, or for the clop."

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. And welcome to the group

904822
There are many good reasons to argue against foalcon, I will absolutely agree to that. (Though there are also reasons to argue for it.) But the fact that foalcon or clop fics make people popular isn't one of them.

For one thing, I know several people with non-clop accounts (my alt-account included) who are relatively popular. Maybe not darf-level popular, but we're talking multiple time feature box, 500+ followers authors. There are several paths to the top for non-clop writers, and if you PM me I'll be happy to share.

For another thing, people are always going to be drawn to the shocking and salacious. Getting rid of foalcon would just lead to more clop in the feature box. Getting rid of clop would lead to more gore. Getting rid of clop and gore would lead to the things closest to clop and gore making the feature box. Basically, whatever is the most edgy thing allowed will get people clicking on it.

So I think the idea that foalcon is keeping "better" fics out of the feature box is a fallacy.

But there are plenty of moral reasons why people should absolutely consider whether they want foalcon in the feature box, or on the site, or not. So I still think this group is great because it's absolutely a conversation that people should be having.

(I also feel the need, given the account I'm posting from, to point out that liking clop and liking the characters and the show are not mutually exclusive: I happen to love both. I do write both clop and non-clop, but I keep them on separate accounts, so by looking at this account I might look like one of those "clop only" authors.)

871472
(I'm sorry to get back to this so late. I was busy, and it slipped my mind.)

Ultimately, it comes down to rationale behind the policies. EQD made the decision that, as pretty much THE site for news, they don't want to embrace mature content (usually) and they have reasons for doing so. I may or may not agree with those reasons, but they're well-founded. Fimfiction, being pretty much THE site for fanfiction, decided it was okay with mature content, hidden by default, and they have reasons for doing so.

My understanding has always been (though I have no idea of the official reasons) that EqD has a quasi-official relationship with Hasbro, at least in terms of having access to official events and being read by show staff. So their censorship makes sense from that point of view- to maintain that they have to remain respectful of Hasbro's property.

FiMfiction is already under the radar. People come here for something that Hasbro legally can't support, so there's no benefit to them in terms of keeping it clean- the more they allow, while still keeping the site useful to bronies (in that it's all pony related content,) the more views and therefore revenue generated.

To that end, it's probably a losing battle.

While I understand the challenges you raised, this point seems silly, however. Pro-rape and pro-foalcon groups can and do exist on this website, so questioning whether an anti-foalcon group should exist seems like folly, so long as it serves as a healthy means of expressing our displeasure.

Pro-rape and pro-foalcon groups have a theoretical purpose of gathering fics that cater to those fetishes. It's difficult to gather fics that cater to a negative. This group is intended solely to advocate a change, so in terms of my continued participation here, that raises the questions: Is this change possible? Is this change desirable?

Since my answers are "yes" and "maybe," I remain.

It's about the mods of this site, and thus the fanfiction community they represent, implicitly condoning the actions within these stories.

Woah there.

It's really important to remember that while foalcon and rape fics might look incredibly creepy, and once again I'm not a fan, there are people out there with perfectly harmless fetishes like age-play and rape fantasies. These stories are as much fantasy as any scene they might stage between consenting partners, in that they involve characters who are not real and therefore aren't harmed by a lack of consent.

Another question along those same lines: It seems far more likely that people new to the fandom and exploring fanfic will stumble across at least information about or references to Cupcakes or The Rainbow Factory. (I base this on the fact that foalcon only makes the feature box every few weeks, while it's hard to even be in the fandom without knowing what Cupcakes is.) Do you think that, given that, people looking at the site are likely to be as disturbed by foalcon? Will they have already crossed the Rubicon of "Pony fanfic is sometimes really f***ed up"? Or do you think that the fact of "grown people watching a children's show" makes foalcon a particularly dangerous form of fiction for the community to promote?

906298

It's difficult to gather fics that cater to a negative. This group is intended solely to advocate a change

Personally, that was my intent in joining: show of solidarity simply in belonging to the group. Not to write propaganda fics or harass authors. While I strongly dislike the content, no one is receptive to being preached at.

It's about the mods of this site, and thus the fanfiction community they represent, implicitly condoning the actions within these stories.

Woah there.

That was poorly phrased, mea culpa. I was not trying to imply that anyone here condones actual harm of RL minors. What I'd meant to say was, by featuring it on the mainpage (yes, with mature enabled), the content/fetish of the story is seen as A) perfectly acceptable content for this site, and B) (whether fairly or unfairly) content that the majority of the site approves of.

Regarding A, as well as these questions:

Do you think that, given that, people looking at the site are likely to be as disturbed by foalcon? Will they have already crossed the Rubicon of "Pony fanfic is sometimes really f***ed up"?

I don't really put any stock into the argument of "well, pony sex is the Point of No Return, and since we crossed it, there's no point in having any rules. Nothing is sacred or taboo anymore." That's some sort of bizarre slippery-slope fallacy, one I frequently see in online communities.

The fact is, fantasies about age-play or rape (or especially full-blown fetishes of those taboos) are a contentious issue. Consensual roleplay between two loving adults is one thing. But a story wherein a (fictional) character is being non-consensually victimized, and the sole purpose of the story is titillation (I'm ignoring Works Of Fine Art, for the moment), and the author is lauded with praise for the work... In some people's minds, this is much darker and more deviant. I don't particularly care to argue for or against that opinion tonight, but it's not an uncommon opinion to have. These taboos are gnarled, complex topics.

Regarding B, and this question:

Or do you think that the fact of "grown people watching a children's show" makes foalcon a particularly dangerous form of fiction for the community to promote?

That is not my sole reason, or even my primary reason, as underage porn is underage porn, no matter what the context. I do, however, feel it's an important point.

Stigma matters. Ask any fandom that's been in existence for a while, and they'll tell you "all the serious fans in this fandom are X." X is rarely a good thing. Yet, these stigma are frequently enough to dissuade new members from joining the fandom, or to drive existing members out of the fandom. As examples, I've heard tons of negative things about the Sonic and Naruto fandoms. I have zero proof that those rumors are accurate. I have a number of accounts claiming that "not everyone's like that." Yet, to the uneducated, the stigma reigns supreme.

Allow me a hypothetical. What if bronies were to gain a stigma of "nothing but creators and consumers of foalcon clop art and fiction". Doesn't matter if it's not factual; it's just a stigma. What impression does that leave to parents who may hear these rumors? To non-bronies on sites like 4chan or reddit? To bronies who don't regularly visit Fimfiction? Imagine for a moment that you're a non-brony, and I suggest to you that you should try watching an episode? Or perhaps I let mention that I write pony fanfiction? Are you inclined to try the fandom? Stay in the fandom?

Of course, rumors are just that. But you decide to research before judging. You navigate to the largest pony fanfic site on the internet (bolded for key point), and check the Featured Box. The top story—just one fic—is a mature-rated foalcon fic. Let's even say it's not a clopfic; it's one of the artsy ones. Given the massive stigma you've heard, what is your first inclination: to assume the best and give the story a try for its artistic merits, or to immediately validate every rumor you've heard?

To the brony or the Fimfiction member who doesn't read/write foalcon, and particularly those who don't even read/write mature, is this fair?

(And yes, as I've said, you could generalize that argument to all of R34 if you really wanted. But while "R34 of a little girl's show" does indeed cross a few people's lines, underage erotica is much more frequently a moral event horizon.)

909501 (Deleted and reposted to notify because I forgot to tag.)

Stigma matters. Ask any fandom that's been in existence for a while, and they'll tell you "all the serious fans in this fandom are X." X is rarely a good thing. Yet, these stigma are frequently enough to dissuade new members from joining the fandom, or to drive existing members out of the fandom. As examples, I've heard tons of negative things about the Sonic and Naruto fandoms. I have zero proof that those rumors are accurate. I have a number of accounts claiming that "not everyone's like that." Yet, to the uneducated, the stigma reigns supreme.

I totally understand this point, but I think that, solely in terms of this point, the stigma represented by human/pony clop in the feature box is far more dangerous.

If MLP fandom has a stigma, it's not as purveyors of underage erotica, it's as champions of bestiality, which is nearly as much a moral event horizon to most people as underage erotica. You can argue that all MLP R34 carries that stigma. But even leaving that aside, human/pony clop, which also frequently makes the feature box, is what plays directly into that stigma.

Now, you can also get into the "not bestiality, xenophilia" argument, but once again most people who only know the stigma are not going to care about that one. They'll see second person clop, and think "It's true, these people do want to have sex with horses!"

In terms of stigma, and stigma avoidance, I'd be more concerned with that if I were you. The underaged thing might shock and disgust, but I think in terms of playing to preconceived notions, human/pony is far more dangerous to peoples views.

909974
Fair point, I'd completely forgotten that subgenre.

909974
If you want to go by stigma to fanfiction or any literal products, all you would ever read would be Saturday paper. As i said earlier (comments main page) easiest thing to do is to disallow mature stories in feature box. And please don't argue about separate webs ides. You want to see how this ends visit fanfiction.net, check the layout, and then visit adultfanfiction.net. This is how separate websites end. Falcon and rape you can put under "extreme sexual situations" and put in option menu alongside with mature to toggle on/off. This is Free website, let it remain Free.

1008013
Yet once again, that sacrifices some truly good stories. Even if you only limit it to the sex tag being not allowed, there are a lot of stories that have sex scenes, but aren't clop.

So then you get into just limiting types of clop, and in those cases A) you still lose good stories, and B) someone has to determine what qualifies as foal con/rape/whatever.

It's a messy subject from the point of view of a clop author.

1016702 Very well said. Their relay does need to be a way to sort the mature stories with sex from pure erotica. One of my favorites stories here has some pretty crude clop seans that I'm not all that crazy about. I still love the story.

I think advocacy is well and good, but this seems like a group designed to hate on one fetish and do nothing else. I don't really care for groups that don't have something positive to offer anypony.

Keep in mind that fantasy (foalcon) ≠ reality. Reading or writing a pony story is not the same as hurting children.

857872
Also, making a group about foalcon because you don't like the fact it has a public face in fandom actually does the opposite of what you claim to intend. Imagine if I were a grocer and I told everypony who walked in the door, "None of our staff use the bananas as dildoes!" This is kinda like that.

4114678 I've changed alot since I made this group. Wile I'm still not a fan, I understand that to many its just a fantasy and nothing to get worked up about.

4114909
I think that's super-mature and reasonable.

*unlurks*
4114664
Yes and no. Granted, there are no victims, and it's just fiction. However, in certain jurisdictions worldwide, entirely fictional depictions of minors in sexual acts are still considered illegal. Note that on both Fimfiction's rules (under new story submission) and Derpibooru's rules (under site rules), they both make reference that human/anthro characters under the age of 18 are explicitly forbidden. But if you change her from a child into a filly, that's suddenly okay? Not everyone, especially outsiders, will see it that way.

4118076
I agree with most of what you're saying.

However, I don't understand why Fimfiction has any kind of restrictive policy if it's based in the US. Only visual depictions are legally problematic in the US. No textual work owned or produced by a US citizen with full rights within US boundaries has been successfully challenged in court since 1966. The rulings since that date have consistently been that stories are protected speech, period; images are not necessarily protected. This might make sense for Derpibooru, but not for Fimfiction.

And regardless as to what the law currently is, we're really discussing the moral standing of whether a book should be illegal. I don't think any text should be illegal unless the communication is part of a specific crime itself (conspiracy, incitement, etc.), and fiction is never in that category.

4119218
Huh. I just assumed Fimfic was also Europe, because Knighty, but it appears to be hosted in California. Possible reasons that Fimfic's rules are as they are:
* Following UK law because Knighty, not realizing it would technically be legal with US-hosted servers.
* Moral preference of the admins.
* Ad revenue. As it stands now, Fimfic's ad selection constantly walks a tightrope due to vanilla mature content. Banning something that crosses the moral threshold of many advertisers (in this case I'm still talking about the existing rule against underaged humanized) is a no-brainer. Call it censorship all you want, but someone's got to keep the lights on.

As much as I find the content tasteless, I agree with you that it shouldn't be illegal. In my previous post, I thought it was. I can sympathize why some non-US regions would rule that way, though. Legal or not, a fair number of people find the content upsetting. Mind you, I'm not holding my breath; I'm pretty doubtful Knighty will reverse course on this. I'm just sitting here, having opinions.

857872
This group and groups like it are a good thing.
A clop fic story is designed to be erotic. Erotic stories that feature children is sick and demented. Creating this group was far beyond justified.
One must never turn from the enemy,
If you are slain in battle, you should be resolved to have your corpse facing the enemy
-Yamamoto Tsunetomo
Hundreds of men and women have said their famous lines similar to this
"Stand up for what is right regardless of who is committing the wrong."
"I would rather die fighting for what is right, than live passively amidst all that is wrong."
"Stand for what is right, even if you stand alone"
I cant find who said those
but still they are valid.
Not to sound too radical about it, but being passive to evil is just as bad as joining in on the evil.
Never apologize for knowing right from wrong.

4114664
alright this might make you a little angry but stop and think.
is it right to sexualize children?
regardless to whether or not you actually rape or molest them?
to look at a child and get off at the thought of him or her being raped or molested?
It doesn't matter if you think that "oh its just fiction" repetition enforces. Just like you train a dog, rewarding the behavior you wish to further enforce. This child smut is positively reinforcing the idea that children can be used for sexual pleasure.
That is a bit beyond wrong. its all kinds of messed up.

While I hate the "equestria is sooooo perfect, no crime, no disease, blah blah blah" I do believe that certain things should be....pushed towards the back burner....certain topics shouldn't be the main focus, while things like foalcon are without a doubt a horrible thing, if it was a side plot, or just not the main focus, and definitely not overly used can be something that will "tug at the heartstrings". But for authors who make fic after fic again and again its something you couldn't help but scream out "wtf?" Making this group just says your not apart of it, some will joke about it when in reality they don't like it either,making this group may not change much, but it makes you stronger than most. Because while other want shamless promotion, "all aboard this crazy bandwagon", or have a sick fetish. You did what most wouldn't, you spoke out.