Really, they are. I try to build a militaristic setting which is not really AU but exploring of unknown history. So I want to follow canon as much as possible but there is a problem.

This world has so much creatures of great power that they cannot be fought off literally, by force and army. Discord is obvious, but he is the only real godlike character aside from Tree of Harmony, so he doesn't count.

• So first of all, there are dragons. That humongous dragons with hoards, not small antro ones. Even a single dragon like this is a disaster, but did you see how much of them passed through Equestria during migration?
• Then there is Tirek with all his magic stealing abilities which allow him to become invincible at some point.
• Then there are changelings who in season 7 suddenly got an ability to transform into everything up to Roc bird and so they did not conquer Equestria in season 2 only because they are as stupid as they are overpowered.
• Everycreature from the movie looks like they intended to be there. Big, strong, scary and all. Fishmen and lizarmen, Storm King's army, even cats and parrots. It all was about CUTE LITTLE PONIES IN A BIG DANGEROUS WORLD LOOK HOW HELPLESS THEY ARE. Also, there are minotaurs and diamond dogs in the show itself and maybe yaks and buffalo.
• Actually, even ponies can be overpowered. A mage like Starlight and Twilight is a disaster, but worst of all, you don't need to have your own magical abilities to rob a land as big as Equestria of all the magic FOREVER!!!

All these things make mass conflict quite pointless and leve ponies two ways to win: to befriend their enemies or to curbstomp them back with friendship or love which are for some reason a source of even more powerful magic. Of course you can say that this is fine and don't you dare to defile peaceful pony heaven. But for me the situation makes the evil less serious because it doesn't even need to actually fight and show itself evil through this. It just comes as a single villain and instantly wins only to be instantly defeated by some chosen ones and their friendship lasers or some other weird thing. The only exception probably is King Sombra in his timeline, but still.

So what do you think about MLP world being world of overpowered monsters and heroes? Is there any solution or I am wrong and don't need one?

P. S. Yeah, insert worthless royal guard joke here.

7198494

•Then there are changelings who in season 7 suddenly got an ability to transform into everything up to Roc bird and so they did not conquer Equestria in season 2 only because they are as stupid as they are overpowered.

The cynic in me wants to say the writers didn't give a dang about the rules of magic and just made it up as they went along.

As for a solution? Persoanlly I just ignore canon and make up my own rules about how strong each race is. Also I would add in limits to power as well as give them weakness to keep everything in balance. Like give Unicorns the use magic against Iron.

7198494
If everyone is overpowered, included ponies, doesn't that sort of swing back around to balance?

7198532
My point is that it creates another balance where everypony is worthless except those who have magic of friendship and there are too many threats which just CAN'T be bruteforced at all, so nopony even tries.

7198536
But if ponies are overpowered too, then do they need the magic of friendship except for top-level threats like Discord or Tirek?

7198545
Some ponies are overpowered, those who are heroes. Or rather in general some can too easily bring disaster to everyone or become completely invincible for average creatures.

There are individuals who by themselves can tip the balance of power in a conflict, this is true. Twilight, Starlight, Luna, Celestia, Tirek, Discord and others around.

However these are exceptions, not the rule. As a race they are more or less balanced, with the greatest exception being the Changelings, but they play by somewhat different rules.

Changelings have magic, flight and transformation abilities, but these vary by individual and are balanced by love harvests.

Yes in general Changelings have many advantages, but they are far from invincible, specially in a direct confrontation. A changeling is less magically strong than average unicorns, they are less flight capable than Pegassi and they are weaker than Earth Ponies. They rely o. Their shifting abilities to give them an edge in direct combat and surprise to drain their opponents of energy before a fight can begin.

But in a direct combat, Ponies beat Changelings.

As I said outside of outliers the races are very balanced and an MLP military setting just has to take into account the movements of these individuals who are extremely powerful.

For example:

A Pony-Griffon war, would force the Griffons to somehow force Celestia and Luna to not get directly involved. This of course leaves individuals like Twilight and Starlight, but these cant be everywhere at once and have to deal with fatigue.

Read Firefly and a Bodyguards works for ways in which Equestria can become a world in conflict to give you an idea of how to create military conflicts in Equestria without boiling them down to Powerhouse slugfests.

If anything, create a way for your faction to either deal with the powerhouses or otherwise force them to not act, leaving the regular militaries to do the work.

7198593

love harvests

For me they feed magic, because, you know, love is magic like friendship (but this is for another topic). So changelings are on Tirek's way.

But in a direct combat, Ponies beat Changelings

Changelings can turn into giant monsters, remember? Average changelings.

A Pony-Griffon war

Can go two ways: ponies get smashed because in general they are dumb and weak while griffons are on the big-strong-scary side (also, this looks like generic human invasion plot), or griffons get smashed because they have no magic at all except for their flight.

7198494
If I recall correctly, the chief difference usually made between low fantasy and high fantasy is that in a low fantasy setting conflicts resolve like they do in real life -- morality comes in shades of grey, and conflicts are won through logistics, politics, strategy and tactics, and the efforts of nations and large numbers of people. In high fantasy, conflicts resolve like they do in myth -- good and evil are clear and evident, and conflicts are won through magic and the heroics and efforts of small groups of people.

MLP is very much a high fantasy setting, where conflicts are won through moral struggle and confrontations between small numbers of villains and heroes. I do not think it's accurate, however, to describe it as a case of overpowered characters and ineffectual villains. If you look at it from a narrative point of view, the show's conflicts exist as proxies for moral lessons and consequently need to be quickly resolved once the moral is learned -- this is a common conceit in high fantasy, where the conflict is in large part an allegory for the story's moral. From a purely worldbuilding point of view, the fact that magic or similar powers exist and can be wielded competently by individuals also leads logically into situations where struggles between powerful individuals serve as the cruxes of conflicts. I don't think the evil in the story becomes any less serious for it -- it's still a genuine threat, simply one that operates individually. Their magic, after all, is also strong.

For another example, think of The Lord of the Rings -- armies and warfare certainly feature, but the individual struggle between the heroes and the evil remains the chief focus of the story. Sauron would become far too powerful for an army to defeat should he get the One Ring, so the mustering of the armies and the war against Mordor's forces remains a secondary concern to Frodo and Sam getting the ring to Mount Doom and destroying it and Sauron -- in fact, the storming of Mordor's gates by the allied armies is explicitly intended as a distraction to keep Suaron's attention away from the hobbits. High fantasy stories work like this.

Essentially, MLP is probably not the best setting to host stories of militaries and politics simply because it's not built to accommodate such stories very well. Every work and fictional universe has certain assumptions it operates under, and the ones MLP uses -- that magic is extremely powerful in individual hands, for example -- mean that it's simply much more suited for the quest of the small group than the campaigns of the army.

Putting narrative concerns aside, the fact remains that everyone has a certain level of power, then no one group is really overpowered. Ponies have ludicrous magic, yes, but so do many other factions. It's not that imbalanced a setting -- it's simply one where armies aren't a terribly major factor in crises.

7198611
Changelings ability to gather love is questionable, but on the whole it seems that harvests are far from ideal. Ergo the Canterlot invasion.
Yes Changelings can survive on ambient magic, but this is just shy of starvation levels and not nutrition, ergo why love harvest is preferred.
Love is clearly a far more energetic source and so it is preferred and significantly increases Changelings powers.
Without said Love, its unclear how long a Changeling can maintain a large powerful combat form, which would require more energy.
Otherwise Changelings would just run in with large combat forms.
Also it is clear that it depends on the individual Changeling how proficient they are with Changing. Not all Changelings are equally good.
There are many ways to curb Changelings to allow for more normal military style conflicts.
The fact that Changelings prefer subterfuge is not only their normal psychological disposition, but also may be a limitation on energy consumption.

In the Changeling invasion of Canterlot most Changelings did not change into large combat forms and for the most part changed into various ponies.
Granted, this is before the Changelings are further developed, but it can be used in your fic as an inspiration for limitation, based on known facts.
Again I argue that large forms are energy intensive and not advisable for prolonged periods.
Also Ponies where effectively caught off guard (not that that is particularly difficult) and so Ponies where at a tactical, strategic and intelligence disadvantage against a force that actively uses subterfuge and misdirection as its main weapons.

As for the Griffons. We know even less about them than we do Changelings, meaning you can develop them however you want to create the scenario for a military conflict.
Incidentally we know more about Jack's and Hyppogriffs than we know about Griffons, so there.

7198628
I can call you Captain Obvious for repeating what I said about armies being useless due to magic, but you did your job on explaining it better. Yet still there is no answer about how to change it.

About seriousness of evil. In LotR it poses a threat for significant amount of time, regular people fight and suffer and play their part in the grand design. While in MLP they say that it is about ALL OF THE EQUESTRIA and then the heroes and the villain fight each other and only each other for a single day and all is over with no collateral damage (or it is easily forgotten and forgiven).

7198611
But Shining Armour sustained a city-scale shield for days despite constant draining - is he really so bottomless?

I don't think average changelings can actually do giant monsters so easily, at least pre-reformation. And in any case, if they're fighting a war by brute force their leader should probably be shot for stupidity.

Griffons and ponies without alicorn intervention would be an intense and close experience, of which I'm sure there's been a few in pony history.

7198655
The conflicts in the show are brief because lasting ones would be disruptive to the show's atmosphere. Notably, when given the chance to present consequnceless alternate universes, the first shown was a pitched war and the second a guerilla struggle.

7198611

Changelings can turn into giant monsters, remember? Average changelings.

Maybe not. The only changelings we've seen turn into even big monsters are Chrysalis, Pharynx, and Ocellus. The most impressive thing we ever saw Thorax turn into was a bear. Every other changeling we've seen mostly spending time in their own forms. They even remained in their natural forms in the couple of battles we saw, even though a more powerful form would have been useful (And even though they were losing one of those battles). It's possible that only talented changeling shapeshifters can turn into such impressive forms, while others are more limited to ponies and other smaller transformations.

I mean, if we're talking about their ability in battle, we've actually got a couple of examples to show how they'd perform.

7198670

But Shining Armour sustained a city-scale sheild for days despite constant draining - is he really so bottomless?

Yes, because he is a heroic kind of pony.

I don't think average changelings can actually do giant monsters so easily, at least pre-reformation.And in any case, if they're fighting a war by brute force their leader should probably be shot for stupidity.

But they did this exact thing in Canterlot even without turning monsters. And then they tried to be smart in season 7 finale and again became so overpowered that they got defeated only by THE POWER OF LOVE suddenly producing a magical blast.

The conflicts in the show are brief because lasting ones would be disruptive to the show's atmosphre.

Yeah, but the problem is that this has in-universe reasons and lasting conflicts are quite impossible.

Notably, when given the chance to present consequnceless alternate universes, the first shown was a pitched war and the second a guerila struggle

And they were used to show that ponies can't win without one particular friendship and the magic it provides. Not pay a horrible price for the victory, but not win at all.

7198655

Yet still there is no answer about how to change it.

Well, there kind of is. Namely, "MLP isn't the best choice for military fiction." At least, not Equestria as we know it. One of my favorite military fics on the site, In the Company of Night, is set almost entirely on another, lower-magic world. Still ponies, griffons, and suchlike, but almost entirely without the world-distorting force-multipliers that upend this sort of story. And the ones that do show up don't wreck the story; they just demand some clever strategy from the army.

In your case, there's a simple solution that won't require such a drastic shift of setting: Have the story take place at some point in the middle of Celestia's millennium of solo rule. Truly unstoppable megathreats like Discord or a well-fed Tirek are still imprisoned. Story-warping powerhouses on the level of Starlight or Twilight haven't been born yet. The dragons are content to live in the Dragonlands, only passing over Equestria during the migration. Klugetown, if it's even been built, wants absolutely nothing to do with the nation to the distant north.

As for changelings, as others have noted, we've only seen those gigantic forms from a few exceptional individuals, and most of them had metamorphosed into newlings with much more renewable love reserves and thus more energy to burn on such extravagant transformations. The exceptions are Pharynx, who was clearly still getting love from his brother, and Chrysalis, who is one of the most powerful beings on the show. If you normalize the far end of the bell curve, of course the whole world will seem OP.

So yeah, shift the timeline and you should solve a lot of your problems.

7198984
Going in reverse order - a mid-war perspective doesn't prove any such thing - just that victory won't be quick or costless.

How are lasting conflicts impossible, barring intervention from the few genuinely overpowered figures in the setting?

Changelings seized Canterlot once, by surprise, for less than an hour. Another time, they managed to replace certain key figures for a day or two. Notable accomplishments, but hardly conquering all Equestria.

7199062
Eeehhh okay. This is what I'm trying to do by myself, actually. To use a proper time period to remove powerhouses from the board. But this leads to another problem: people like canon. Your own post proves it. Also, Fallout: Equestria, for example, probably remains this popular partially because it relies heavily on mane six and others despite being set as far as it is from friendship heaven: it uses them to show this exact heaven in all it perfectness which needs to be restored. Another military project - Equestria Divided - is still all about mane six and background ponies or other character-based things. Is it really possible to remain MLP without using all these characters or even Equestria itself? How about the concepts of Harmony, magic of friendship and such like?

7199914

Is it really possible to remain MLP without using all these characters or even Equestria itself? How about the concepts of Harmony, magic of friendship and such like?

It depends. Forgoing the usual setting details can still work if you maintain familiar properties like the three tribes and other species, cutie marks, and cultural or folkloric elements that can tie the characters back to the source material. In the example I provided earlier, Equestria is somewhere between heaven and Fiddler's Green to the characters, a fabled paradise that may or may not even exist, where warriors like them wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

As for Harmony, that's a bit trickier to drop, but no one said you had to. Watching the characters struggle to reconcile the ideals of friendship and the realities of war could be just as engaging as watching them try to kill one another.

It's true that an all-OC cast won't get as many views, but are you writing this because you want to tell the story, or just because you want to get noticed?

7199914
Why not use Equestria itself? Just to distinguish your AU?

And it's not like all familiar characters are unusable - just a handful, and I still think they're more "handle with care" than impossible.

7199950
See, you too can't inmagine pony world without Equestria or beyond it. Or beyond and before which is what I want to use. Because the closer I would get to the known canon, the more people would expect its friendship-magic conflicts and leave unsatisfied. Probably.

7199972
Except plenty of people like equestria + war. Not that going before it is bad, as long as you don't mind using more primitive societies.

7199918

are you writing this because you want to tell the story, or just because you want to get noticed?

Of course I want to be noticed it is all what I want ahahah... but telling the story to nobody is not fun anyway.