The Radical Church of Ponies (a concept) · 11:02am Nov 28th, 2015
"The Radical Church of Ponies" (RCP) is an international militarized religious human organization founded in the early 21st century. Its members believe in the existence of Equestria and the future coming of ponies to Earth that will bring peace and harmony under ponies' reign. The organization's purpose is to establish contact with Equestria, to hasten the Coming, and to protect ponies from any aggression.
The Church's organizational structure includes three major branches.
The Research Department is the spirit of the Church. Its sign is a pictogram of a horn. Its goal is to find and contact Equestria, and make the Coming come true. The department actively studies ponies of Earth, because there is a hypothesis that they may become a key to achieving the goals. The researchers has made great progress; amount of collected data is unprecedented. The ponies living inside the Church show high intelligence and assist the researchers to the best of their abilities. The department also investigates ancient legends that involve equines. The day of discovering the pony magic will be a turning point in the human history.
The Military Department is the armed hand of the Church. Its sign is a pictogram of a wing. Its purpose is to protect facilities and personnel of the Church, to liquidate any threats immediately prior to the Coming, and to protect ponies afterward. The department recruits and trains soldiers, and keeps its armoury and vehicle park adequate to the current situation. It also monitors the situation in the world and devises various action scenarios.
The Supply Department provides resources to the whole Church. Its sign is a pictogram of a hoof. The department unites individuals and organizations that volunteered to materially support the Church. It also conducts fundraising; everyone who sympathizes with the Church can make their contribution.
The Church's Major Emblem depicts a human warrior ('The Human Guard') in full armor, holding an unsheathed sword in front of him, its point set on the ground and his hands resting on the sword's crossguard. His face is indiscernible, reflecting the idea that new members devote themselves to the Church by putting the purpose before the person¹. Behind and above the warrior rises 'The Radiant Alicorn', her wings spread wide, her forehooves resting on his shoulders, light radiating in all directions. At the top of the emblem is a ribbon with the Church's name, the Minor Emblem in its center. Below the Alicorn's wings the words of the Church's creed are written:
"There are no gods but Ponies"²
"The Kingdom of Ponies will come on Earth"
"What thwarts must be destroyed"
The Minor Emblem consists of a glowing orb with a silhouette of alicorn's head, framed with stylized wings, and with a sword pointed down in its base.
Also, another organization exists in parallel, the secessionists who claim that not only what acts against ponies but even what passively stands in their way must be wiped from the face of earth. They do no research, instead focusing on military activity. Dispersed battle groups execute independent operations directed at making 'Ponyism' dominate over all other religions and forms of government. The RCP does not officially recognize them as a part of the Church, due to their claimed aggression against humans that is similar to the aggression of humans against ponies, to prevent which is one of the purposes of the Church. Though their interests sometimes overlap. Due to non-recognition the secessionists often act under alternative names, such as "The Retributive Hoof", "The Shadow Wings" and others. The average age in the organization is younger than in the RCP.
¹ — actually reflecting the fact that I didn't tempt my fate trying to draw a human face )
² — in the headcanon's later version changed to "Ponies are blessed" as more fitting with the Friendship ideology.
Well, that's all for now) In addition I'll say that the whole concept had been catalyzed by reading Warhammer 40k wiki and seeing W40k x MLP:FiM art ) What you see here is a concept, the best I can draw on paper so far; I'm not planning to write a fic implementing it. But you are allowed to use the RCP in your works; in this case, a link to this post would be cool)
And, this article wouldn't be as good as it is now (at least) without help of some kind ponies. When you're struggling with dictionaries and grammar, a helping hoof extended from across the language barrier helps so much. So:The list of the first members of the Radical Church of Ponies: Ooh, okay okay! The list of those who contributed to editing the creed and the article:
The Derpy Division, Nagel Navari, FireMedic755, Alicorn Priest, metallusionsismagic (special thanks for editing the bigger text).
Thank you!
It's not a religion if it's a hundred percent to be true without a need for nonempirical evidence
LET THE FLAMES WARS BEGIN!!!
4805847
Sorry, I'm being quite sleepy right now.. what evidence do you need?
4805858 Really? Okay... Empirical evidence? Preferably tried and tested
4805868
Yeah, it's midnight, isn't it? Going to bed in a minute, practically.
Do you mean—something toucheable is needed to call it a religion?
4805883
No, just that any religion has to be based on something tangible or usable or else it would just feel pointless
4805884
Life is pointless. How other religions are tangible and usable? See you when awakezzz..
4805892
Not usable, meaningful. The line between practical use and habits of beliefs is blurred. People use traditions like idols or prayer to help establish their identity and connection to what they believe in, there are also things that serve a double purpose to practical side of things like calendars or beliefs that save you from problems of today. It's not all faith, y'know.
4805926
Still sleepy, unfortunately; it's been a problem recently ) Don't take short phrases as rudeness, just cannot focus. And it's a flame war, after all,)
So, I just don't get your point. Faith is faith, traditions are traditions, and so it is with identity, calendars, and things. If things has diffused into each other, it doesn't mean one is a necessary attribute of the other. You're saying is like "The sky is blue, the grass is green, RCP is not a religion." I see no connection) What your exact requirement(s) RCP doesn't meet, and how an example religion meets that?
4806330
Religion doesn't own ideas, they associate themselves with them. People need to feel the "Flow", something that will completely distract themselves from the meaningless reality of their daily lives.
Try looking a something like the cult of Fluttershy
4806589
Words, words, words.
Religion:
Wiktionary
Longman Dictionary
A belief is enough to found a religion. RCP is about magic ponies existing around us unseen. "Flow" enough for me)
4806634
Where do you think belief comes from? Religion is not just mere beliefs, it's built upon a mental state similar to hypnosis.
The flow is psychological state that's balanced between high skill and high challenge, the perfect state when doing any project
media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAJTAAAAJDM2MWUxYzg5LWU2Y2QtNGRkNC04OWM5LTk1YWQ3MDI1ODg5YQ.png
4807277
I still don't see what's wrong with RCP. Give me a concrete example: your religion has it, my religion has not. )
4807282
Let's see... There's an internal part and the external part. One focuses inside the church and the other focuses on the outside
RCP External: Research ponies, protecting the church, supporting the church
RCP Internal: ?
Believe it or not, this is important. The external part scatters the church's attention while the gathering focus the church's attention. You have to make activities that emotionally connect the group in some way instead of just rationalizing them into jobs. Try something creative, while normal church's use sermon, prayer, and gatherings; time on internet can't be so compact so activities like "special greetings" or "debating" or "posting pictures" will do. Be creative
4807900
The core of RCP is the belief in the existence of Equestria as a light place immune to the evil of our world. You can see no rituals described because there are no rituals. I mean, while what's described in the post, with its three departments and scientific activity, is fictional, RCP is also real in our world, and in our world it's just the belief I told you. Well, some piece of lore as well, but nothing more atm. Every activity that resonates with that belief, if fine.
4807915
That isn't a religion, goofball, that's just a fictional radical organization dedicated to Equestria. The word religion seems like a stretch
Tell me, is it a profit based organization like a company, or a non-profit organization like a charity or a foundation?
4807936
Watch your mouth) Something doesn't cease to be a religion just because you say so:)
Ponyism is a religion, and (fictional) RCP is an organization that serves its purposes). It has sources of funds, and it's not important (within this discussion) whether those are structurally internal or external to it.
4807948 So it's much easier to start a religion than to discredit it?
I know what you're getting at 
Anyways, what makes it different from something like a cult? How about whether it serves to also protect their funds
These are a questions I have as a worldbuilder
4808555
:) I'm having a little problem with precise understanding of "getting at" and "protect their funds," but I'll try to form a lees or more universal answer )
Of course, it uses all legal means to protect its interests, and on its own territory RCP has quite a strong position. It restricts itself to legal means of self-protection and propaganda; at the same time, the secessionists incline to an opinion that a little in-advance cleanup doesn't hurt,) In some sense, they act as a kind of extra shield for RCP (tho RCP never planned to create such a shield).
4808633
Wow, that's quite thought out of you ;)
They're radicals more radical?
Not all organization have an opposition organization, btw, some thrive with only activism as the only opposition
4810586
Yeah, more radical radicals). R in RCP stands for radical measures for protecting ponies when they come. On the other hoof, the secessionists' motto could be "Radical measures today!" And in fact, they're not an "opposing" opposition ) Sometimes they help by acting, in their way, where RCP cannot act itself, legally.
4810896
You know, that reminds me of how groups like the "ISIL" came from "Al Qaeda" Why or how did you come up with that dynamic?
4811131
Well, in the beginning was the Picture. It looked like a human protecting a pony whatever it takes, that's why I called the church Radical. In fact, it turned out to be not as radical as it sounded, so playing with the word I came up with the idea of those other guys. You know: youth, hot blood, "life for idea." The world is crowded with radicals doing questionable things, considering themselves being in the right.
4811150
Indeed, not even the moderates could resist these faces
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vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/0/0d/Applejack_blushing_S2E14.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124221321
Even posting these pictures are irresistible
4811196
It pleases RCP. )
4811214
What does . ) mean? Do you mean ;) or .
4811856
It means. )
:D
See it as gradations of expressiveness:) A smile consists of eyes and a mouth (I consider nosed smiles oldish). A smile with one eye is less expressive than a two-eyed, an eyeless smile is even less expressive. And even less exspressive when you put a whitespace between a sentence's end and a smile. ) Or maybe I should call it "more calm" instead of "less expressive." You know,)
4811862
If it becomes any more powerful than the 
then you need another kind of emoji to express the happiness.
Less expressive means your doing less to give off an expression, there's no reason why you need to tell a reader that you have an expression lighter than a casual smile like this :) That's already light as an expression enough. If you want to use levels of smiling try :) and :D there's no need for a weak smile. You could simply use these emoticons from feeling the most casual to obsesive
This one can be borderline
Here are levels to sad emojis
There are so many ways to express how you're uncertainty
etc
I could go on through the all the different pony emojis and their uses but that would be boring
(Pretentious sadness)
4811885
Imagine you want to show emotions of someone like Maud ) Well, okay, she's an edge case, but someone with a narrower-than-average emotional range ) Anyway, it's how I use smiles—bear with it :D
4811908
or 
or 
or : l or '___' or meh, or 😐 or 😶 or 
You mean something like this
i.ytimg.com/vi/wkcU54BO6Q4/maxresdefault.jpg
or
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/4/4a/Maud_%22His_name_is_Boulder%22_S4E18.png/revision/latest?cb=20140317110002
or
derpicdn.net/img/2015/6/18/919390/large.png
or
memecrunch.com/meme/99OTE/meh/image.jpg?w=625&c=1
You get the picture. or pictures
4811933
We're getting off topic, please use PM's for that
4811941
Okay, but I'm gonna be offline for now, so message me a PM if you please and I'll get back to it later
4811944
I consider the explanations complete enough; you message me, if you want to ask more.
"The more intense has been the religion of any period and the more profound has been the dogmatic belief, the greater has been the cruelty and the worse has been the state of affairs."
- Bertrand Russel
I don't quite get how you came from "Friendship is Magic" to "What thwarts must be destroyed". Timberwolves in the series do present an actual threat to ponies in the series, yet they are not hunted to extinction the way humans would treat such a species (I describe one such possible incident in "The Black Guard". It does not go well.). Maybe my interpretation is off, but while i find it easy to believe that humans would react to a revelation of nice ponies that way, i actually think Celestia would scold the members of such an organisation (compare Jesus' "Love thy neighbour" leading to the incidents surrounding the death of Hypatia of Alexandria).
I am also not convinced that we need yet another religiously motivated terror organisation. I get that this is a bit of a fad right now, but can we stop and return to reason and science instead? The first thing the unicorn division of your organisation might do would be to essentially dissolve the armed group, keeping only a negligible few as guards basically without weapons, and give the resources over to the support division to start trade agreements with anyone who is willing to cooperate. That is a significantly more effective way to protect your organisation and its interests than relying on armed force.
If you want to go Pony 40K, why not go full Pony 40k?
This way you even get the option of fully chaos corrupted Nightmare Moon. ^^
If you are having persistent sleeping problems, it might be an idea to see a doctor about it. Some good advice that i got was to treat such issues as if a good friend was having it: if a good friend of yours told you they were having sleeping trouble like you have, would you advise them to just wait and see if it gets better, or would you urge them to see a doctor? We have a bit of an un-culture of wanting to suffer through malady and prove how tough we are, so we ignore our health issues until even medical professionals cannot help us any more … no point in becoming a hypochondriac, but the other extreme is not wise either.
4972008
First, thanks for your feedback: the article hasn't seen any in quite a while.
To your reproof: The Church has been created to protect Ponies from Humans; the official Church is a defensive organization, not terroristic. They see the future reign of ponies as a universal good, and wish to secure it against human rulers who may want to "purge them with Fire". And there is another organization with the same name, disapproved by the original Church; those guys want to be more proactive, which is typical for youth.
If you continue to insist that RCP's strategy is still not optimal, I always can reply to that with "it's just drawn that way!" =) Because the story is inspired with the picture, and not vice versa. And as it looked a little Warhammerish to me, I thought a modicum of good ol' Exterminatus-like stuff wouldn't hurt (even if I'm not an expert on Wh40k).
In fact, it even doesn't deny other religions, say, Christianity; ponies' reign may be, for example, a transition period before the Kingdom of God. Or its manifestation.
And for the sleeping problems, I'd rather call them time-management problems. It's described with a phrase "not getting enough sleep because of late turn-ins; sleeping in the day because not getting enough sleep in the night; going to bed late because sleeping in the day" x) When I get fed up with that, I cease my evening activity and switch to earlier turn-ins until I'm back to normal.
So by your definition the Irish Republican Army, who seeks to hasten the coming of an Ireland free of British imperialist rule and to protect Irish people from harassment and mistreatment by British citizens through armed means is not a terrorist organisation?
Or is the RCP an organisation where the leaders just blatantly act against the statement on their banner? That wouldn't be so unusual, either.
I'd daresay it is incompatible with most other religions. To quote from the Torah/Bible: "I am a jealous God" & "I am the only God", and now compare that with "There are no gods but ponies", which pretty much precludes all Abrahamaic religions. Hinduism is pretty much out the window, unless you consider six-armed or elephant-headed humanoids to be just a very special kind of pony - in which case, what is not a pony? I'd be inclined to think that the eightfold path of Buddhism and the ultimate goal of any Buddhist - spiritual suicide - make ponyism and Buddhism incompatible. As far as Taoism goes your guess is as good as mine: i've read parts of the Tao Te Ching and i still don't get what it is about. Shintoism is the one major religion currently practiced that might be compatible. (I am deliberately ignoring "pick and choose"-religions such as neo-paganism, wiccan or Baha'i.)
I do continue to insist that founding and maintaining an armed subsection is a poor strategic choice, but as i also mentioned it is a quite believable decision. Human organisations – especially religious ones – very regularly choose highly inefficient or even counterproductive means to attain their goals. So a group deciding to implement a caste system that leaves no space for artists, comedians, prostitutes or a number of other members of society does not sound unbelievable to me at all.
But that is not the focal point of what i was trying to say, but rather that i would be eager to distance myself from such an organisation. Since you seem neither convinced that maintaining an armed wing is strategically unwise, nor something to be avoided, allow me to elaborate in a format appropriate to FimFiction, namely two stories, beginning from almost identical starting points and diverging based on a single decision:
Bottom line:
Scenario 1: RCP outlawed, low on resources, driven towards radicalization, total number of members down, some members of the RCP imprisoned, several RCP members shot, some of them dead, RCP operations face increasing armed resistance.
Scenario 2: RCP perceived positively by a larger part of the populace, increased ability to engage in legal financial enterprises, total number of members drastically increased, two members of the RCP were beaten up badly enough that they needed to be hospitalized for several days, one member of the RCP received serious burns and permanent facial scarring.
Here's my counter-challenge: write two brief stories where the decision to maintain the armed Pegasus Wing led to a significantly better outcome for the RCP than when it was abolished. I'm not saying that coming up with a believable and likely scenario where this happens is impossible, but i think you'll find it remarkably harder without introducing some rather deliberate plot contrivances.
Funny thing is i am not a pacifist. I have engaged in combat sports for years (though actually less for self-defence purposes than because i consider them a good way to stay fit and healthy), believe in a well-armed police force and army, and that there are cases where employing these groups with clear orders to use their weaponry to full effect is ethically and strategically the best option. Those cases are in reality however so rare that repeatedly people incorrectly believed me to be a pacifist because i continually found avenues to solve problems avoiding violence, simply because those were ultimately more cost effective.
4973528
I'm not familiar to IRA's activity, but it seems that if a people of some territory believes they should live independantly of certain imperialists, they may use weapon to secure their rights. For me, "terrorism" means, roughly, threatening ideological opponents with armed attacks directed at their civilian population (and carrying out such attacks). Thus, your actions are terrorism if either they are not supported by the population of a territory you "protect", or if you kill "enemy" civilians on the outside.
What can thwart the Coming of Ponies? Human goverments? Aggressive civilians? Your comment? At what distance?
The general idea is that the Coming must to come true, and the Ponies must be kept safe, which leads to an absolute good for all humankind. The creed's categoricity can be explained (and excused) by its archaic manner of speech.
Actually it belongs to the first edition, where I mostly build RCP as a reflection of Cristian Church. Later I considered it should be something less restrictive, like "Ponies are blessed". Seems I have updated info in only one place so far.
When you tell about six-armed or elephant-headed humanoids, I can tell you about a six-limbed or elephant-headed pony. And a pony is a pony. Gotcha :3
So far, I only describe reality before the Coming. After that, the Ponies will define the future of the Church, and ours. It may turn out to be a part of the Buddistic or Taoistic Path. And with Shintoism you can worship ponies right today!
Hey, its an organization, not a society. Its members are free to interact with artists, comedians, prostitutes, or whoever. Anything that doesn't interfere with the Church's purpose.
Hay, you specialize in darkfics, don't you?)) You should've added the part where the pissed-off Pegasi bring into action their nuclear charges, world-wide. Then we have a sequel to Fallout: Equestria here.
I believe the evils of your Scenario 1 are orthogonal to the Pegasus Wing's existance. I mean, violence that involves drunk people, weapon, fascists, etc. I mean, you don't have to involve RCP to get a mess with those. I would call your Scenarios a false dilemma. And even in your "Good End" you had to burn someone x)
Speaking of your challenge, looks like I would have to write only one brief story with the Pegasi in place, because one good end would be enough. I doubt I will write one right now, coz it's kind of late here (it took some time to think over the matter in a foreign language, as well). The general idea is that RCP'ists doesn't hang about drunk ready to open fire any moment, and there are secured private territories where they are safe (both from and for the society). And for hostile radicals, there are friendly radicals always ready to come to help.
In general, the Purpose is to hasten the Coming, not prevent deaths. I believe there is a variety of effective strategies meeting that purpose.
Upd.: Also, it is questionable on what scale the Pegasi must be combat-effective. If a massive world merge is going to happen, we need forces comparable to state armies; if we expect it to begin with a relatively small group of ponies that can be sheltered in one of RCP's bases, we need to defend from local attacks only, and then using political methods to establish a world-wide reign of magical equines..
Not all people living in Northern Ireland support the IRA, and attacks have been carried out against civilians and the families of civilians openly critical of the IRA (also in part to extort funds). A number of attacks by the IRA have targeted civilian targets in England.
Real life situations tend to be a bit muddy. Terrorist organisations usually do not just appear because evulz but much more often because of real social injustices committed - if you want another example, look at the US Black Panthers. Cases where 100% of the populace either support or decry an armed organisation are pretty much inexistent.
The areas which seek to seceede from a nation are typically the rich/resource rich regions the inhabitants of which are unwilling to pay higher taxes to support the poorer areas. Examples include the Catalans, the anglophone regions of Cameroon, Cechnia, South Tyrol, the United States of America, and many others. There are also some regions which wish to seceede because of racial persecution, like the Kurds in Turkey or the Rohingya, but given that the RCP is not a racially based organisation this does not come into play as much. (Also, these secessionist movements not supported by rich regions usually fail.)
Most of the time neither side is completely in the right, and decrying everything as "terrorist" is simply a method by the large power players to justify their own actions. By common definition, terrorists are simply unmarked combatants (which thus are in breach of the Geneva convention ... just like the US), since attacks against government offices like embassies are generally considered terrorist acts.
Quite.
So ... crippled Sleipnir it is, then? Of course you can tell me about anything you want, but simply discarding the explicit descriptions of deities in a religion and painting your own preferred ones over them does not make your religion "compatible" with another, even if the Baha'i wish to claim differently.
That would have been more than counterproductive. The intent was to show a plausible, realistic scenario. The Pegasus wing obtaining numerous nuclear weapons sounds extremely unfeasible, and them utilizing those even more so when you look at the different incidents where the US and the USSR came to the brink of nuclear war and each time reason prevailed, and the military officers in charge refused to carry out nuclear attacks.
I would argue the exact opposite. If there is not an environment that makes violence likely, what is the point of having weapons at all? If you are surrounded by reincarnations of Mahatma Ghandi, did you just get those weapons to force others to your will? That would make the RCP a Saturday morning cartoon villain rather than a believable organisation.
I tried to create a scenario where it is believable that the members of the RCP would want an armed wing and have convincing reasons why resources should be diverted that way: a society where violent clashes between subgroups are not unlikely and there is a reasonable amount of lack of trust in the legal system. After consideration i deliberately removed a part of the story where the fascists who perpetrated the initial attack were apprehended: that neither those nor the people carrying out the incinidary attack with molotov cocktails at the end are ever legally persecuted shows how bad the situation in this fictional country is, and why many members of the RCP might reasonably feel that having an armed part of their organisation to protect them would be a good course of action. The rational analysis shows how "feeling safer" because of having more weapons is not a good argument, as having more weapons is in reality likely to increase violence and casualties rather than reduce these.
Of course i could just write a story portraying those who support an armed wing of the RCP as closeminded, radical retards, but where would the point of that be? It is only convincing if this group is actually composed of believable characters, who strive in their own way towards their own goals rather than seeking to destroy the world for evulz while laughing manically. If you look at the scenario, the first pegasus wing member who used their gun is actually a person who wants to protect, and looking at the alternative scenario many would say that shooting there was a reasonable case of self defence. This is a character one can understand and maybe identify with, and who isn't just a straightup asshole whose motivations are nothing but excuses to argue a certain point.
Incorrect. I didn't have to burn someone, i included that part in the story because even with the best laid plans usually something goes wrong, so this seemed more realistic. If the situation before the founding of the RCP was violent enough that establishing an armed wing seemed like a good idea, then these few events won't make everything suddenly peachy through friendship beams. My point was that even with things going wrong - and the plans don't quite work out for people in either scenario - not having an armed wing is the more effective strategy.
Technically, i'd disagree. In reality there typically aren't "good endings" or "bad endings" , there are degrees of success and failure. That was why i included some things not going the way of the RCP in the both scenarios. For the challenge to be successful, the ending with the armed wing being maintained must be better than if it is abolished and its resources allocated to other endeavours. (It might still be a probable horrible ending that is just slightly better if you prefer that kind. ^^)
So the church is less of an international church but rather a religious nation, having territory goverened pretty much exclusively by RCP prescribed laws?
Give me a scenario how this is going to work out. If you want a clerical nation on Earth, you basically have to take the territory it occupies away from someone. Nations typically do not react to that kindly. Your "single base of ponies" which is starting to build up an army large enough to contend with other nations armies - in particular the one where your first base is located - is going to get a lot of unpleasant violent attention from the nation it is trying to take territory from. Using political methods is much more difficult if nations consider you an active threat and your organisation is considered a terrorist organisation by nations worried about loosing territory to your group.
4973884
Would you call an international corporation that owns relatively large pieces of fenced territory orrupied with its buildings and other infrastructure, a nation? RCP is an organization that legally occupies its territories, securing them by its own forces.
As I've said, the entire concept originates from a single drawing and an accompanaying idea: the Ponies are an absolute good for the humankind, and must be secured + hasten the coming. The canonical RCP setting is defined on a set of universes where RCP, with its three-part structure and all, operates effectively (casualities low, closer and closer to its purpose). Hence, there is no problem with having an armed wing by definition :3 Thus we need to think not about why Pegasi are ineffective and how to get rid off them, but about what and how makes them effective (as well as the rest of RCP's structure). And how their Purpose is compassed eventually.
Depends. If it has the primary jurisdiction in the region, offers social services and can be expected to be stable, then yes. Examples would include the "Kruppstadt" Essen, where the Krupp family essentially had a state within the German nation as well as a number of Japanese business enterpreneurs towards the latter half of the 19th century. Good fictional examples would be the Megacorps from Shadowrun. A number of scholars of politics would also argue that some drug cartels in South America which provide social services, have a standing armed force and are the primary jurisdiction in the region should technically be considered nations/states.
A counterexample would be the fenced in territory occupied by foreign companies extracting natural resources in the Middle East and Africa. Those typically do not provide any social services and require armed guards since the local populace is normally hostile towards them, given that they feel they do not get a fair share of the riches extracted from 'their' soil. While within the compounds the company is typically the primary legal arbitrator, the population within the compound cannot be considered stable: normally contract workers stay there for a season or a year, then return to their home country.
A third type would be fenced in corporate property with a security service in first world nations. While the security forces might actually carry guns, the corporation is not the primary legal arbitrator: should the guard actually use their weapon, they will be taken into custody by local police authorities and the case will be handled by a judge who generally is not directly controlled or officially on the payroll of the company. Pretty much no one permanently lives there - not even some really hardworking Japanese employees. All of them eventually leave the fenced in compound to go home or go out drinking, in which case a scenario like the one initially described can easily happen again.
Especially if a groups official statement of intent is a change in government, the acting government will not allow it to establish any significant armed "security force" (if it can prevent that).
The concept of nations has outgrown that of a racial group, even if the Israelis would like us to revert back to bygone days.
Was that not the question i asked, adding that i can only imagine such a scenario if some rather odd plot contrivances are introduced?
I admit it was not discernable for me that you considered the original post already irrefuteable gospel, to be held absolutely true in every detail irrespective of real life facts or conventional logic. I guess that does make any discussion superfluous. I am sorry for wasting both our times then.
4974794
Wasn't considered an irrefutable gospel. If it were, "Herecy!" would be my only reply to you.
The concept defines several axioms: RCP believes the Ponies are an absolute good, RCP wants them on Earth asap (uncoerced), RCP wants to protect them, RCP consists of the three branches described.
I believe it most closely resembles your third corpo-type: the main work is done by researchers within fenced private territories (legal RCP property), they may even live in there as well, workers work in RCP's legal businesses to get funds, and guardians secure these (legally owned) territories.
Isn't Christianity about a change in government? Some Christians even do what they believe makes that day closer. I doubt a goverment can seriously consider a possibility of a coup by little magical horses. Mb only by a herd large enough…
Despite the original idea's joky roots, I believe it's a fairly liveable setting. Sorry if I'm wasting your time, though.
This was also the reason why Christians were persecuted in Rome. Neither the Mithras-Cult nor those who chose to worship Aegyptian deities got any trouble, only the Christians, and then only because they refused to pay homage to that the Roman Emperor demanded the divine right to rule.
These days there is pretty much no real action taken by those considering themselves to be Christians to bring about any significant change in government (i'm not counting voting for politicians who will then legally implement laws which are in accordance with that particular sub-groups morals, because that's really not what the Bible is talking about), but their insistence that human governments were inherently bad and their refusal to obey local laws led to some legal persecution of Jehova's Wittnesses not that long ago.
There are some armed groups who attempt to bring about a rule as described by their holy texts. ISIS comes to mind, but there's also the Aum Shinrikyo or (though those groups ceased to exist a couple of years ago) the members of Jonestown and the Branch Davidians. They are typically perceived very poorly by any who are not members of their group and persecuted by governments.
If a new church which wants to establish an armed wing is formed, i do think that it could expect to be taken under close scrutiny by government officials, given how much fun we all had with previous groups of that sort.
A significant question in my opinion is how that should come to be. There are only two monolithic religious organisations that i can think of right now which have the resources to implement a structure like the one you are talking about: the Vatican and ISIS. It's entirely possible that there are some other Islamic groups out there who have the resources to do this as well, and maybe the Church of England does, too – i'd have to do some research to be able to tell for sure.
Fact is that those groups that are armed – generally the Islamic ones in the Middle East and maybe Northern Africa – are by and large perceived very poorly by anyone who is not a member, and a lot of people with interest in history would not react well to the Vatican deciding it would like to establish an armed force (for security purposes only, of course, but with enough equipment to challenge a small nation). We kind of had that and most people wouldn't like that happening again.
So the question is not just how the RCP would look in its final state, but how it should get there from probably humble beginnings with a fairly small group of believers with little resources.
I accept full responsibility for handling my own time. I posted under the possibly hasty assumption that a discussion based on real life facts and logic would be fruitful, respected and welcome. If the phrase: “we need not think” is used, then that probably is not the case.
That's partially what made me comment on it. There's the Church of Google and the Church of the Spaghetti Monster - is compared to those the RCP really a more ludicrous idea? My problem lies in what i expect to be happening if this idea actually caught on.
I don't know whether you've heard of the group "Incel"? Originally intended as a discussion group for people who have problems with finding and maintaining relationships, i think i can accurately quote the original founder's reaction to the course it has taken with "What the FUCK?!"
Unfortunately the reality of the matter is that people are always looking for an excuse to push the responsibility for their faults on someone else - add in religion, which is by its very nature hardly approachable through rational debate and mix with guns and you have a recipe for disaster.
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Well, by "a change in government" I mean the Kingdom of God on Earth; for RCP, it will be the Kingdom of Ponies. A condition when the ultimate authority within any nation no more belongs to that nation's leader, and now there is a unique external authority for all the nations.
The original concept looked quite Warhammerish, like, a small but professionall end well-equipped army neutralizing everything pony-hostile. But then the question cames up, for how long you have to maintain the thing professional and well-equipped until the Coming finally happens. So, as I said, more like a security department now. I believe a legally acceptable size and quality of private weaponry varies across the globe.
For how that should come to be, I simply think: from small to bigger. Separated groups at the beginning, uniting and forming structures later, and then the "superstructure" or RCP. Like, if a person grows up with affection to Ponyism ideals, then they can direct abilities and resources they've obtained to creation of something like RCP.
Happily, the phrase "we need not think" wasn't used, so the doom gets delayed. I just want the Pegasi to remain in the concept, more economically efficienth though. The problem of the Coming is what its scale will be, and whether a small group of humans will be able protect a small group of ponies, and whether a small group of ponies will be able to positively affect the earth politics.
RCP isn't meant to compete with CoG and CoSM, though ask your president "Sir, how do you feel about magical ponies' reign in your country?", and I believe a smile will be his answer.
Haven't heard of Incels, now I have, thanks. Indeed, pushing responsibility on someone else is one of the most fundamental principles of the Human. They can argue on anything, and if there happens to be no weapon, they always have their fists. Though somehow we've managed to keep it in leash, averagely.
Sorry for the belated reply, illness and a number of other issues claimed my time.
And that is exactly what most Christian denominations are not actively trying to bring about. Those that do usually end up on the terrorist list.
Something those nations leaders will fight you over, and they'll do their best to ensure that the RCP doesn't get the weapons to actually have the option to forcefully disempower them.
True, and knives are easy to come by. But if you look at the number of seriously injured to dead which result from fistfights of people disagreeing on something versus the number of victims to mass shootings, then i think you'll have to agree that there is an issue worth thinking about here. For humans the mental resistance to killing someone with a stone is just much, much greater than to pulling the trigger on a gun.
Maybe i miscommunicated. What i meant to say is that the Church of Google and the Church of the Spaghetti Monster are real churches with members, so i find it absolutely believable that if it is done well, a real life RCP could easily attract followers. It will start out small, and if you keep in the armed wing i do expect that something will go wrong (because it always does) and the entire thing desolves into a horrible mess that you really never wanted to be associated with at all.
For me that came too uncomfortably close.
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That's life.
By this and the preceding I'm trying to say that there is a real church, Christianity, which's prophesies say that all existing goverments will be superseded by a new goverment, and (based on what I've heard from Jehova's Witnesses) spreading the Word among all people can make that moment closer, as the Witnesses do. So, technically, they are slowly preparing a global change in goverment, but I haven't heard of them as terrorists. And I don't believe the Coming of Ponies will create more uproar than the Coming of Christ, especially taking into account the age of either churches.
Agreed.
Consider it RCP's personal (or should "own" be the word?) security agency. Are those that much a problem generators?
For me, that was "focusing on a different aspect", not "abandon thinking! I repeat..." ) Is a non-aggressive secluded organization so unimaginable?
Let's look at some real life examples.
The Jewish churches, despite being regularily the target of hostility to the point of violent attacks, do not have an armed security service. You may want to argue about the Israeli security estabishment, but all those answer to a secular, not religious, authority, and their operations are (officially) limited to the nation of Israel and the territories it conducts military operations on. If it became known they acted in other countries to protect Jewish curches, i would expect a major diplomatic incident.
Muslim churches, which end up facing open hostility in western countries especially after terror attacks by Islamic radicals, have no officially known armed security service in western countries, and i can only imagine the shitstorm that would break loose if one of the churches suggested implementing one.
Jodo Shinshu Buddhists have no armed security service. The Chinese government is generally suspicious of religious groups, and after the Ikko Ikki incidents i do think that many Asian governments, in particular the Japanese, would not approve of the idea of establishing one at all.
The mainstream Hindus have no armed security service as far as i know, despite their not infrequent clashes with especially Muslims in India.
The Roman Catholic Church does have an armed security force - the Pontificial Swiss Guard - but these exclusively work in the Vatican itself, which is recognized as an independent country. All other property owned by the Roman Catholic Church - and we are talking about huge plots of land, and a number of highly valuable items - are protected by the security forces of the country they are situated in.
So just thinking of these examples - i could keep going, but i see no point - imagine that the national leaders and the security advisors of the government figure out that the RCP is establishing an armed wing.
The very first question they will ask is: "What do they want to use it for?" All these other churches manage to get by without one, why does the RCP want to invest the money and resources in establishing it?
What does the RCP want to do again? Oh, replace the regional rulers - as far as they do not bow to a central RCP authority at least. And their banner reads: "All that thwarts must be destroyed."
Well, we've had experiences with armed religious groups in the past. I named a few sects that caused problems, but the list is much, much longer.
I think you can understand how that would lead to paranoia. So not only does the RCP loose the resources it invests into establishing an armed wing, it also faces increasing resistance and/or persecution by national authorities which consider it a threat.
What exactly is the purpose of the armed wing that makes such losses worth it?
It is imaginable that there would be an armed security force in a church state, like the Vatican, so i asked earlier whether that was what you were imagining the RCP to be. The issue with that is that the territory for that religious state needs to come from someone, and generally no nation wants to cede territory. You'd have to come up with an explanation / story how the RCP managed to establish its own state, and the armed wing of the RCP would be limited in operations to pretty much only in that region.
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No issues here. The Pegasi's purpose is to protect RCP's interests on its territory, legally owned (like everyone can get a parcel of land in their state). What do you think the "armed wing" is like? A tank battalion per church? A flying squadron? Just a security department, weapon legally owned as well. Things may change in the future, but hey anything can change in the future. If some churches doesn't have "forces", or if some forces are disliked, it doesn't mean that RCP cannot have "forces" without attracting aggression. Sorry for the compressed reply, lack time atm.
About the same that the Branch Davidians had. Maybe 10% of the local congregation armed with whatever weapons are legal to own in the country. Typically pistols, potentially shotguns and hunting rifles, depending on the country possibly assault rifles or SMGs as well.
If any of them are farmers and decide to buy some nitrate fertilizer, the anti terror department is going to get REAL nervous.
As i pointed out before, sects wanting a "security force" is nothing new. Tell me an instance where it worked out well.
Feel free to get back to the question of my previous reply whenever you have time. Hope things are working out well for you.
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As I understand, your point is that armed structures inside a religious organization would inevitably draw government attention to it.
My turn: to the government, RCP looks more like a corporation that owns various businesses and research centers (their specific researches can be qualified as researches on biology, phisics, well, theology) — all that legal and inspectable by government authorities. The credo and stuff can be compared to a "corporate spirit" (not sure for the wording), in other words, it may look odd, but it's mostly meaningful and apparent for RCP members than a casual observer. They demonstrate what others want to see, and do questionable stuff behind the scene (which is not the unforgivable kind of questionable stuff: just what may cause unwanted attention). Is it believable?
Yes. So the RCP is basically a secret society masked by some corporation ... let's name it Hasbro for conveniences sake. The thing i think you might want to think about is that if word about this armed secret society planning on changing the world government gets out, secret services will initially think they are dealing with a prank about a Saturday morning cartoon villain who plans to conquer the world ... then throw a fit of complete paranoia when they figure out there's actually facts behind this. So the secret about the RCP must be kept pretty much perfectly. In order for that to be possible, the inner circle - those who actually know about details of the RCPs inner workings and goals - must be kept very small, to reduce the chance of a leak. A leak still will happen eventually, so this secret society stage of the RCP must not be too long - a couple of decades at most. Every year it exists increases the risk of them being found out. During that time the RCP must gain enough power that the secret leaking really does not matter any longer - so they basically must become more powerful than Nestle or Coca Cola. A tough challenge if you ask me ... any idea on how you think they should achieve that?
There also needs to be a plan in place for the case that someone from the inner circle does intend to leak the story. Certainly the RCP has the best screening process for applicants ever, but eventually someone will feel slighted or disagree with the leadership or fear that they will be uncovered and all be carted off to one of those wonderful CIA resort hotels which are so great nobody ever leaves again. When the RCP gets circumstancial evidence that one of their own probably intends to give information to a secret service ... what do they do? Will the potential traiter have an unfortunate car accident that no one could have forseen? Do they keep the family of all RCP members on base, and never let them leave together? This is a scenario that is almost certainly going to happen, so the RCP leadership must have had a discussion on how to handle it.
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Why you don't think Nestle and Coca-Cola are owned by
HasbroRCP? )Only the Unicorns' activity is untypical to our world, so Earthlings are simply workers who works for they employers, like your average citizens. The Pegasi are defensive forces, not offensive. The Unicorns' life in RCP may have some restrictions depending on their role in the researches, but there are enough devoted members.
Plan A: discover pony magic; locate magical ponies; open a portal; accept friendship and spread the word.
Plan B: in the event of emergency, seal the portal to protect the other side.
The reign of Ponies is expected to be established naturally, without spilling blood. You say "must be destroyed", but you don't have to shoot to destroy things. I don't think RCP's researches will cause hysteria among government agents. We see no governments preparing rockets to meet Christ on His Second Coming, do they see Ponies as a more dangerous threat? I think they will see those researches as "RCP, Inc." leaders' shenanigans, at least until those bear some fruits in practice.
The traiter will fall off a horse? :D You can prove nothing!
Seriously, I think it won't run to that.