Cerulean's Voice On The Matter #21: Daetrin Special! (spoiler warning) · 8:27am Jun 29th, 2015
So I could return to the required mindset for a reading of today’s story, I decided to go digging way back down to the bottom of my favourites list, where Off the Edge of the Map and Apotheosis have been hiding for years. I remember… being dazed and amazed at the thoughtful world building in both, in awe of how an author could have such a vivid imagination that it leaked into my own.
Do these stories stand up against the natural erosion of time? Let’s find out. Here’s my review of Daetrin’s Triptych trilogy.
Author: Daetrin
Synopses:
When Rainbow Dash's newest trick backfires spectacularly, she and Fluttershy find themselves stranded in the middle of nowhere. Together, they'll have to survive and find their way back to Equestria and Ponyville...no matter how far the journey.
When Twilight is sent with Luna on a diplomatic mission to Draconia, they quickly find themselves somewhere that doesn't appear on any map, and Luna is lost in more than one way...
Celestia leaves Equestria in the hooves of Luna and Twilight.
While she searches among the gods to answer her questions, Luna and Twilight must struggle to fulfill their own duties to ponies and to Equestria.
Lengths:
34,894 words over 3 chapters, averaging 11,631 words per chapter
46,300 words over 8 chapters, averaging 5,788 words per chapter
52,001 words over 12 chapters, averaging 4,333 words per chapter
Status: Complete
Review: Okay, perhaps the first story doesn’t hold up as well as it used to. While still gorgeous in my mind’s eye and full of epic locales, Off the Edge is full of telltale early fandom marks like Lavender Unicorn Syndrome in abundance that keep distracting me from the story. Seriously, it’s “the blue pegasus” this, “the yellow pegasus” that… even sometimes just “the pegasus.” Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy are both pegasi! Which one do you mean there?
It also doesn’t help that many paragraphs switch between the third-person narration, and different character interactions and dialogue. Like this paragraph for example:
“I’m just worried about Angel Bunny and my chickens and birds and all my animals. Who will take care of them if we don’t get back soon?” Fluttershy’s ears drooped and Dash trotted over to put a hoof on her shoulder. “Hey, we’ve got plenty of friends in Ponyville. You know they’ll take care of things while we’re away. Spike’s done it before, remember?”
All one sentence. It should have been split into at least two, and even worded differently in the narrative part.
What it keeps strong though, weak writing aside, is just how awesome the worlds are. When they’re lost in the big blue ocean with nary a piece of land in sight, it feels like they’re lost. They don’t try to downplay their situation; they know they’re in trouble. The island, lush and green as it is written, still feels eerie and silent, a sort of beautiful creeping horror. You can feel that they’re not supposed to be there. It’s always good to read about ponies eating plants, leaves, and grass too in survival situations. Too many writers forget just what kind of animal our heroes are.
Leaving the lonely island and its forsaken spirit, Rainbow and Fluttershy come to an ancient city in the frozen north, through which they find themselves in Draconia, the land of dragons. Out of the darkest depths they climb, emerging into the lair of a deposed dragon king. After unwittingly helping him earn back his throne, they head south back toward Equestria. Along the way home they pass through the old town of Cantrot, and I mean it when I say it still feels creepy as ever. Much like Silent Hill, in a way. I blame the persimmons.
In the end, I picked up a few more details on my second read of the story which helped me understand some of the subtleties that I missed back in 2013. That said, some of the story still confuses me, and I can definitely see many more weaknesses in the writing. Off the Edge of the Map is a nostalgic favourite of mine now, and it’s by that grace that I don’t downgrade it from my tier one faves to my tier two faves. I know that Daetrin has improved tremendously since this one, particularly in his character interactions and development which were vastly out-performed by his gorgeous scenery porn. This fic is an old relic of Fimfic, and it’s still at least worth a read if only for that reason.
5/10
"Miss Twilight Sparkle and Mister Spike," the guard announced. "Your Highness, Your Majesty."
Already off to a good start. At least Daetrin knows the difference between addressing Celestia as a princess and Scar as a king.
Apotheosis accomplishes what few other sequels can: being a worthy direct sequel and yet having a completely different main cast. My second readthrough of this one has yielded far greater rewards in the form of understanding that which once confused me. The descriptions of things are stellar as always, and even the environments are far more interactive with our characters than in the first story, as opposed to being just being backdrops for the adventure (with the possible exception of Cantrot). The desert, the clock, the forest… they all relate to Luna in a significant way.
This is not simply another adventure story. It means so much more for Luna and Twilight to be on this quest than it felt like it did for Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash to be on theirs. It’s not just about discovery this time. It’s more about self-discovery, but also recovery. While the writing still falters a tiny bit every now and then, much improvement is visible. Structuring is more solid, and even the occurrences of LUS are starting to decrease, although they’re still very much present.
This will come as no surprise, but Apotheosis has some of the most brilliant world building I’ve ever seen. What makes it more remarkable is the level of interactivity between characters and environments. Every description serves a purpose, every word from the beings that Luna and Twilight encounter. What starts out as Luna’s journey and a quest to restore her divine powers post-Elements quickly becomes about both ponies; the spotlight shines more on Twilight the deeper we delve. There’s an overall theme of balance present, as evidenced by many things. How Luna and Twilight approach the Basilisk at the start and the Everfree Spirit at the end; Luna reclaiming her birthright to move the moon and taking it off Celestia’s shoulders; their conversation with the ouroboros is especially well done, as is the encounter with the hungry winds.
The romance, while perhaps occurring a little fast, is nevertheless believable under the unique circumstances that Luna and Twilight face. While neither intended for it to happen, one does not simply emerge from a destiny-filled journey with another and not have, at the very least, immense feelings of respect for and a deep friendship with the other. This continues from and improves on the events of the prequel in spectacular fashion while not relying upon prior knowledge of it at all. In fact, many people read Apotheosis back in the day without even touching Off the Edge of the Map, and it’s easy to see why. To this day, I have never seen a pony fanfic that outstrips its predecessor by not only such a huge magnitude of ratings and views by readers, but also across-the-board writing improvements from the author. While OtEotM seems like a dated yet respectable relic of the past, Apotheosis remains just straight up awesome. Don’t pass this one up.
9/10
I come now to my literary destination, the third and final leg of my journey through Daetrin’s world of adventures and gods. Triptych has a lot to live up to in the wake of such a fantastic read. And from the first chapter, I am sold. Twilight and Luna are absolutely adorable. Character voices are perfect. The prose just… the prose!
To live within the confines of duty is to have the length and breadth of the world defined. After long enough in that world, it is easy to lose sight of anything that lies outside those boundaries. The walls become invisible, the habits unquestioned, and the weight of responsibility turns to air - unseen, omnipresent, and impossible to live without. To be freed of that duty, then, is to be hurled into the vast depths of the sea: a heaving, uncertain, and foreign world.
And Celestia was drowning.
Yes, yes, yes. This is writing.
It’s clear as the story progresses that Daetrin used Triptych as an exercise in developing characters. Off the Edge was primarily focused on the worldbuilding; Apotheosis continues to expand on the world while also focusing more on the main characters (something that puts it leagues ahead of Off the Edge; but Triptych has its primary focus on the characters and their developing relationships, with just a touch more worldbuilding. This is a great setup in that it feels like a logical completion to the trilogy, and yet… it felt like something was missing. I feel like I’ve gotten so used to his grand expansions that the story feels kind of muted, in a sense. Which is odd, because there’s far more dialogue present here than in the prequels. I found myself wondering when the conflict would show itself before I realised that it already had. Upon this revelation, I couldn’t help but feel a little let down. My own fault for not looking at the tags properly, I suppose.
That’s not to say the conflict isn’t important though. It’s just doesn’t feel quite as grand as Apotheosis’s in the same way. Still, while replacing a primarily external conflict for a primarily internal one, it’s incredible that this one has more far-reaching potential consequences for the characters and the world at large. Before, it was Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash who were mostly in trouble. Then, it was Twilight and Luna. Now though, all of Equestria is involved. Twilight and Luna admirably fill their appointed roles, even if they aren’t so used to it yet. Seeing Luna reconnect with ponies is really sweet, just as amusing as Twilight using her newfound godhood to literally absorb the contents of hundreds of books at a time.
For me though, grand and interesting as TwiLuna’s struggles are, I couldn’t help gravitating to Celestia’s issues. While Luna tries to remember how to rule a nation with Twilight at her side, Celestia has the opposite problem, as noted above in that beautiful quoted section. Her soul-searching as she interacts with Zebra gods, an old-but-familiar foe-once-ally, kingly dragon brothers, and a long-dead friend(?) really speaks to me. It’s an existential crisis without the angst, a self-analysis in terms of just what kind of country she has been responsible for for so long, how she has made it that way, and whether she should continue to be relevant.
As a character-centric story, Triptych hits all the right notes. I just felt like it could have been something more. That said, what is presented is difficult to fault, besides the small and infrequent mechanical errors. There’s less LUS present than in either of its predecessors, fewer saidisms, slightly less subtlety overall, and a greater focus on our new heroes. I will say that I’m a little disappointed with the fact that Twilight eventually became an alicorn—I believe just being a unicorn goddess was refreshing, but I can still see why it had to happen, I suppose.
In the end, not my favourite of Daetrin’s works, but still very much a story worth reading if only for the beautiful prose and the depth of things. Of course it will appeal greater to TwiLina shippers, and the prequel is required reading to understand what’s going on. Granted, I consider Apotheosis essential reading anyway.
8/10
Words read so far this June: 857,913
It probably comes as no surprise that I had very specific goals for each of these stories.
For OTEOTM, my rules were "don't push the relationship or characters" and "the world is much, much bigger than the protagonists." I think I managed that, though as you noted it's pretty creaky otherwise. But then, it was literally the first thing I'd written worth sharing (sadly I wrote other things that fortunately are lost to the mists of history).
For Apotheosis, the rule was everything had to advance either the Luna/Twilight relationship, or Luna's character development. Both, if at all possible.
Triptych was different. I didn't have a romance or an adventure to advance. Unsurprisingly I wrote that more focused on Celestia than on Twilight and Luna. It's clear that Celestia can't have an adventure like the others - she's post-adventure as a character. So any journey she'd go on would be self-determined and controlled by her. So I came up with the trio of questions in the mini-description of the story - what does it mean to be a pony, a princess, a god?
Cartography heads back to A-plot adventure B-plot romance, but in this case the thematic focus is the culture difference between ponies and gryphons, so everything has to revolve around that - including the romance!
I'm going to preface this by saying that Off the Edge of the Map was one of my very first fics I read, and was one of the things that seriously got me into enjoying fanfic. So there might be some rose-coloured glasses in the following post.
While I can see some of your complaints about the writing as being valid, I guess I just don't care as much about the technical aspects of writing. I don't care one bit about run-ons or switches in perspectives: it's about how the story makes me feel. And that is something which OTEOTM does for me very well. At times, the story makes me feel small as the pair try to cross this massive and expansive world. The scene in the cave, groping around blindly and then trying desperately to save someone when you still can't see. Even with the problems with the writing, Dash and Fluttershy are very well defined for me, so that definitely adds to the story as well.
While the prose may not be comparable between this and Austreaoh (sp?), this story made me feel just as intensely as some of the "travelling" chapters of the first book in that series. The isolation, the scale, and the quiet but ever present fact that the world doesn't care one bit about you or your struggles . It makes it that much daunting.
Now's where the rose-colour may become apparent. When I first read OTEOTM, I immediately sought out more from the same author, and came upon Apotheosis. I... admit that I was frustrated with the story because I was expecting OTEOTM 2.0 with Luna and Twilight, which is definitely not what Apotheosis is. So that may have coloured my opinion of it. I mean, I haven't gone back to reread either Apotheosis or Triptych since my first reading, but I've read OTEOTM like 4 times.
Also though, I feel there's elements of the latter two which are not only hard to relate to, but completely unrelatable. I can't possibly relate to the problems inherent to godhood. Daetrin does a good job of making the whole process alien, and it certainly comes across well enough for the purpose of the story, but there's just... this level of power is not something that is within the grasp of human experience.
Anyway, just tossing my couple bits in here.
Though, Cartography of War is my favourite Daetrin story now.
3191646
Those rose tinted glasses are another reason I decided to go back and reread the stories before tackling Triptych at all. I, like you, remember it being all very grand and epic and massive and mysterious, especially for its time. But then two people I respect went and did reviews of it recently and after reading them I thought to myself, Was it really that bad? Does it suffer that much in terms of execution?
For the record, here are the reviews in question.
PaulAsaran
Titanium Dragon
They might seem harsh, especially the second one, but I think they truly understand how to properly critique a story.
On the opposite side of the scales, here are some more positive and/or neutral reviews.
Chris
PresentPerfect
ezn
Everfree Spotlight
It really depends on what you look for in a story. I, as an editor, can never help noticing all the things that irritate the hell out of me in terms of technicalities. You, as a reader, probably only care about the adventure itself and not how it is technically presented or what it neglects as well as focuses on.
The relatability thing is a point in your favour though. I guess I don't personally look at whether I could see myself in their position. That's what makes it more awesome when a writer can sell you on something you'd never hope to understand. It's pretty hard to pull off, but he did it.
Oh and I'm linking 3191481 here too, so he can see these reviews if he hasn't already.
edit: Cartography is my fave of his too. Loved it from the very beginning.
3191696 I actually have seen (and responded to) most of those. Good (i.e., content-rich) critique is something I try to respond to for two reasons. One, it means I have to actually think about it rather than either taking the positive as my due or rejecting the negative 'cause I don't want to hear about it (though I don't think I'd do that), and two, because critiquing isn't easy and it's nice to have your efforts acknowledged. And a conversation is usually more interesting than a monologue.
Really though, at this point the Apotheverse trilogy is so old that...well, there's some truism about any artist hating anything they've done that's more than a few years old. I don't hate my old work certainly but it's necessarily a lot weaker than what I'm capable of now. Even if I did manage a few things i haven't recaptured (the bigness of the world in OTEOTM, for example, remains fairly elusive, and I haven't had any ideas creepier than the Island and Cantrot), if I were to be writing those now they'd come out different. And better, hopefully.
Ultimately I suppose I'm happiest about my progress as a writer, more than the success (or lack thereof) of any specific work. I'm immensely pleased by 90% of Cartography and how it turned out, even if I do wish it had as many comments and favs as Apotheosis!
3191713
I think one of the reasons you were able to make the world so big with OTEOTM is a combination of factors. One is definitrdedefinitely that both main characters have the ability to fly. Aerial views and landscapes can really bring home the scale. For Twilight and Luna, the ability to teleport shrinks the world considerably.
With Cartography, you did very well to capture thay alien feeling again (the Ruins Snake, the Wrath of the River and the burning Timberwolves), but the fact that the characters are ground-bound hurts the ability to show the scale of the world.
3191788 Even more, it was RD's and FS's lack of competence in the task of pathfinding and survival. Rose and Gerard were directly suited for it; Twilight is hypercompetent and Luna should be similar, given age and experience. There's a difference between "this is a bad situation but I know how to handle it" and "this is a bad situation and I have no idea how to handle it."