Jul
17th
2012
How this works · 5:40am Jul 17th, 2012
So! Some people might be wondering how the whole chronology of these messed-up Rarity stories works. The stories are mostly self-contained, but if you're following the larger storyline, here is the reading order:
1- Rarity's Garden
2 - Tarnished Silver
3 -Silver Spoon's Mark
4-Four Little Foals (AKA Twisted)
SIDE STORY- The Many Loves of Pinkie Pie (technically occurs after #4 but can be read anywhere in the order)
5- A Silver Sky
EPILOGUE 1 - Interrupted Cadance
EPILOGUE 2 - Aftercare
Oh, and this should go without saying, but none of these stories are even remotely appropriate for young readers.
you gonna write more about foalfooler rarity?
235153:
Indeed I am! A new story (Four Little Foals) is currently awaiting approval from the FIMfiction powers that be. It's going to be a long, multi-chapter affair.
I never realized that fic I really liked, The Many Loves of Pinkie Pie, fit into a larger universe. Now I'm definitely reading the rest of your stuff.
235155
i feel bad for loving this but I LOVE THIS! AND YOU!
waiting for the next installment excitedly
diederickdevries.net/images/excellent.jpg
A larger universe?
Sometimes I think maybe it's not forth doing these stories if what poeple really want is this.
I get it, you hate Silver Spoon for being a bitch. and Rarity is fun to tweak. But... Twist and Pip and Sweetie? And in conjunction with a bigger arc.
It's enough to make an author want to hang up their keyboard. It explains why light comedy and amusing romance areb't bringing in the eyeballs. They're not transgressive. Or maybe the taste of the whole place was never going to enjoy them in any case.
You win.
236464
Actually, I don't write about characters I hate. I find it boring. The only MLP character I actually dislike is Gilda, which is why you'll never see her in anything I write. I never had a real problem with Silver Spoon, and I've grown quite fond of her over the course of writing these stories.
More importantly, please don't be discouraged just because my nonsense seems to be getting attention. I'd hate to think I had discouraged someone else from writing. Ultimately, the most important person you should write for is yourself. Everything else is secondary. Even a story no one reads has value if you learn something from it.
Besides, you never know what affect your work has on people. That goes well beyond dry stats like pageviews. Example: the epilogue to Four Little Foals (which I drafted weeks ago but won't go up until all other chapters are complete) was directly inspired by the discussion you had with Shrinky Frod about why Rarity has not been brought to justice by the Princesses or other authorities.
All I'm saying is, don't give up. It's not a competition, and if it was, I'd probably lose (or be disqualified for use of thoroughly unpleasant subject matter.)
236475
I may have "English" typed in under my major, and my professors may be concerned with ponderous tomes and critical theory, but thanks to having to come to grips with my personal stance on reality and rationality, I am in some sense a scientist. Dry stats, as meaningless as they are in an ultimate sense are very REAL, as far as telling who looks at what and does what.
I understand that you don't "hate" the characters you use. I'd imagine it's more complicated. But... I like Princess Luna. A lot. Enough to really deeply pay attention in Elizabethan drama and take piles of notes so I could make her SOUND right. I never whipped her, broke her limbs or raped her. If you liked Silver SPoon, why draw out her murder? We know that Rarity (Who you also... indifferently recast in an interesting new light) is going to kill her. Why make her suffer if you like her so much? It makes no sense in the grand scheme of things.
I'm not discouraged by you, per se. But you were the one that made me aware of this grand movement. Hate. Blood. Darkness. Rape. Misery. And not even using Fallout. It's there and popular. Ther eare enthusiastic cries for more and more, more abuse and suffering.
I can't give up. At the very least I promised someone who means a good deal that I would finish a few of the projects I'm doing. And I still get ideas. Plenty of them. But to know that what the people really want is abuse and a cruel world that does not allow for arrest, by fiat, well... some days (just some, so, no worries) it can, to modify a line from Bacheller, sap my blood and break my heart and pluck away my bones.
Again, though, I think I'm mostly grumping over Silver Spoon. I don't use her much (never had much chance) but I DO like her a lot
The first story in my "Canciones" series had a really short scene with her and Diamond Tiara, being them. But in that, is everything I enjoy about them, together with love. Also, I really got into the "Ask Nice Silver Spoon" Tumblr (Before it stopped updating) and loved the fic that went with it. To a slightly limited extent I also like Rarity enough to react to ehr depiction in a generally but not overly negative way. Too much "Green" I think. That is one great fic 
Anyhow, I should probably come back on my phone and watch you (Yea, my laptop... can't use the watch button. What is up with that?) Just so I can see this epilogue when it comes.
Oh! And I forgot.
You are an empathetic human being, as are we all. You even stated freely that the subject matter is somewhat unpleasant. It's transgressive but there are been worse things fed through the mill of pop lit. Look at that shades of gray stuff
The question is though: Why do it? You are clearly made of sterner stuff than me. I'd be unable to do it. I haven't the capacity. So what drives the wheels that make dark Equestria appealing?
236521
You know, it's something that I've thought about a lot. The "why" of it. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend a few years ago. She's a very practical sort, the type who has little use for the arts. So she asked me, not rhetorically, "What's the point of tragedy?"
I couldn't think of an answer right away. It was days before I got back to her on it. But I thought about the famous tragedies, and how all of them seem to be about revealing flaws and aspects of characters that simply wouldn't be revealed any other way. And that's what I told her.
There are things we will never know about ourselves unless we hit our absolute lowest point.
The place where I started was with Silver Spoon, and the question of "why does she follow Diamond Tiara with such total faithfulness? Where is her individual will?" But that's a question that has been explored before. So the question became "how far can she take this? What's the limit of her devotion? Is there one?" And I realized I couldn't answer that question unless I let her hit that lowest point.
And before I knew it, Silver was falling in love with an abusive foalphile (traits given to this version of Rarity by someone else, but which I was still interested in exploring) and pledging her life to more or less being Rarity's footstool. Why? Because Diamond couldn't take Silver to that lowest point. She doesn't have it in her. And Silver Spoon, tragically, wanted someone who did.
(And in all honesty, I do find that power imbalance somewhat fascinating. Not on a sexual level, but on a psychological one. There is a romance to the idea of completely devoting oneself to another that I find strangely appealing. Of course, Silver is taking the idea much, much too far, and Rarity doesn't deserve her devotion anyway.)
I think subjecting a character to extremes --internal or external -- is a valid and fascinating way to explore them. For the most part, that's what this is all about for me. I find it serves me well as a writer to find out what happens when I put them under these sorts of conditions. Sometimes they surprise me.
(oh, and please don't think I'm trying to compare my stuff to the great works of tragic literature or anything. I'm just using that as an example.)
I realize I'm probably coming off like a kid pulling the wings off of flies for fun. That's certainly not my intent. The idea of anything remotely similar to this happening to a real person turns my stomach. But, well, Silver Spoon and company aren't real people. So while I do feel bad for them sometimes, I try to deactivate my suspension of disbelief, or else I'd be far too kind to them for the story to be interesting. I don't even mean by Dark Equestria standards. I probably wouldn't let ANYTHING bad happen to them. I would end up writing something called "Fluttershy's Incredibly Nice Day," which would be 30 pages of Fluttershy petting a bunny.
Of course there's also the sexual aspect to consider. I actually don't find most of the stuff I've written to be arousing, aside from the Pinkie Pie story, but that's a whole different set of fetishes to consider (and also a character of legal age.) And one thing I've noticed about Dark Equestria as a whole is that while it started out as a series of clopfics, it's moved beyond that. The stories have sex in them but that's not what they're about. I'm 7 chapters into Twisted and haven't written any sort of real clop sequence yet. No one seems to miss it; in fact, probably the worst received story I've done is the one with the most sex.
So that's, to some extent, why I'm writing this (and on a more practical level, I'm just doing it to improve my skills.) Why are people reading it? I have no goddamn idea. I was really expecting a total readership of about 12 people. But that's where I get back into the idea of dry stats. 100 page views doesn't mean 100 readers. For all I know, all 100 of those people clicked through, read one sentence, and then went somewhere else, never to return. There are people who just click on whatever's on the front page at the time, and their hit counts just as much as someone who read every word.
Anyway, I'm kind of rambling now, so I'll stop. But I appreciate that you're willing to discuss this so intelligently even though the material bothers you so much. Here's to civil discussion on the internet, that rarest of beasts.
PS: I read your Diamond/Silver sequence in Canciones. It was really sweet, and had a great energy to it. I haven't read anymore of the fic but now I feel like I'll have to at some point.
239056
The lowest point... I think i see where you're going with that. And I understand my own response would be a ramble that might not be too well recieved. Mostly because I don't think I'd manage to state it right and you honestly deserve a good response.
I can say this, though. I respect that intellectual curiosity and recognize that, at the end of the day, these are not real beings. And yet... I once saw a story, while seeking soemthign entirely different. It wasn't on this site and wasn't about ponies. But it featured a couple being violently tortured at random, then one being killed, and the other made to serve the killers. I skimmed and checked the end just to see if there would come some kind of retribution, or if there was a message attached. There was not. It was in that moment I realized I could never be a writer of real tragedy, as typically defined. Only comedy, which means that bad situations get better and better until they rise to a triumphant end. For which, see... well, most of my stories but most blatantly "Elements of Discord" and "Contra the Heresies." Especially "Contra." Two stories, one about alcoholic Berry Punch falling into her addition and the other about an evil mirror that shows the the most horrible reimaginings of the one that looks in it. Yet both end on a positive note, or are implied to be so. I just feel like a dick if I leave charactrs there, writhing and twisting in agony, pinned down like a science experiment.
Here's part of the "poorly recieved" but, because I can't articulate it well at all. To do this to fictional beings seems... gratuitous. Pointless. It seems somewhat "implausible" to explore the depths of something if it's just in your own mind. What you're actually exploring is your own idea of what you think it might be link. I'm not accusing you of strawmanning. But more... overthinking the capabilities of ratiocination. If you ever saw "Star Trek: The Next Generation" there is an episiode with Data losing his memory and being found by a pre-renaissance society. They don't know what to make of him so their most learned scholar starts to make a lot of assumptions without taking measurements, inventing this strange history and origin for him because she is trying to use pure reason to puzzle out a matter of fact. Reason is excellent stuff, and I am made a study of formal logic. I practically have M=M MV~M ~(M^~M) tattooed on my forehead. But without a "measurement" (that is, input from real life and gathered data) you can only say you've deduced a possibility with a variable probability of correctness. And each thing you build from there grows less and less certain... ok, I'm stopping. This sounds like I'm trying to take the piss out of you, which I am not, by any stretch of the imagination.
From what you've said, I am of two minds regarding Silver in the story. On one hand, she's effectively useless. If she has no bottom to her degredation, she might as well be a chair, or a table. There's no reason for her to be alive as she doesn't use any of the sentience/sapience she has. Which means Rarity is even more pathetic because she's taking advantage of what is indistinguishable from a vegetable. Those characters confuse me but then again, I'm not "hip" to the BDSM. So I don't get being a gimp. I'm too square for that scene, daddy-o, as the oldsters say. I don't understand how you can not care that much, or at least have no opinion or preference. Even in my lowest moments I can always picture a situation where I'd say, "Hey, can we stop the latex screwing? I want to go watch "World's Dumbest" and see if Enos is in the pony shirt again." Or even, "You know what? Screw you, I'm tired and lazy. I don't feel like licking your hooves right now." However, on the other hand, I... I kind of want Diamond Tiara to pull her back. To realize she loves her. and that while Silver Spoon "needs" to be degraded, she also needs to grow up, get a motgage, marry a nice mare and shop for laundry detergent and a good brand of sliced cheese. I almost see Rarty as... ludicrously childish. All these formalized dungeons and secret societies seem immature, and disconnected from real life, where grown up, serious people make budgets and pay phone bills. It seems strange, but I think the filly would want Silver to grow up and mature while the mare wants to play and act like a petulant child. Rarity is the one pulling wings off of flies. And it's a pathatically childish thing to do.
It's odd, I've written more about Gilda and Trixie than Diamond and Silver, even though I used to cast Gilda as a pure antagonist and I used to think ill of Trixie. Now I see they belong together, as the only two that can help each other heal and become better. I'm glad you read the section with the two of them? Would you say I have a grasp on them? I'm considering a quick little something with them. They don't get enough love. And I mean that literally, they don't get shown in love often enough.
Civility and intellectual conversations are practically my stock-in-trade. I encourage it always and enjoy seeing them happen. The material provides the fertile soil from which we may raise up more noble considerations.
I have to disagree with the idea that exploring something that exists in your own mind is pointless. I've found that it's an excellent way to learn more about oneself, as a writer and potentially even as a person. Of course when I speak of "seeing what character X would do" I'm really just posing that question to myself, not to them. But I still think it's a question worth asking. Even if the answer will never be definite and always up for debate. I like uncertainty. It creates more possibilities. Answers reduce the possibilities, and that feels limiting to me.
I am an incredibly impractical person, basically. I'm not saying I don't see the value of your approach, in fact, it's probably better than mine. It's just that my mind does not work that way. I have a similar relationship with math. It's awesome, it's incredibly important, we would still be hunting and gathering and have a 20 year lifespan without it. Just don't ask me to do it.
Rarity is actually incredibly childish, you're right. But she has a child's selfishness mixed with an adult's cunning, which makes her quite the monster. I don't see Silver as a "vegetable" at all, though. She's a psychological trainwreck, certainly. But in a way she has more agency than any of Rarity's other victims, because she's the only one who ASKED for this sort of treatment. Of course, she has the judgement of an 8 year old and can't possibly be expected to make such decisions (even if she was in her right mind) but still. Her love for Rarity, as confused and damaging as it is, is real to her, and this is how she chooses to express it. She is surrendering control of her life, but surrender is still an action.
This is totally getting into BDSM stuff, but bear with me: I know a fellow who is incredibly bright, accomplished and politically outspoken. He is also quite submissive, and is engaged to a very sweet woman who is his mistress. I've met her, and she does not fit the stereotype at all. She is quiet and introverted; he's the more outgoing one.
For them, this isn't a sex thing (in fact, they're both virgins, waiting until their wedding night) it's a life thing. He does not drink, for example, because she has told him not to. And here's the thing: she attends college on the opposite coast from him. When school is in session, he could have a beer every night, and she'd never know. But he never does. He is choosing to obey her. He's devoted and obedient, and this makes him happy, and brings them closer. I would not say that this is a surrender of sapience; he has a will of his own, it's just that what he wants is to obey her. It's still his choice.
So yeah, when you say "I don't understand why you can not care that much" I think you're missing the point. It's actually a matter of caring a great deal.
(of course, in any healthy BDSM relationship, the sub is allowed to call time out or simply say no to something at any point in time, with no consequence.) Sorry if that was more than you wanted to know, but it seems like an important thing to clarify.
Also: I remember that Star Trek episode! As a matter of fact, I believe it was the first Trek episode I ever watched, which is no small thing, since that franchise was such a big part of my formative years. It's kind of neat because Data spent the whole story with no idea who he was, and I had no idea who he was either, so we were kind of discovering Data together.
PS: It was like 3 AM when I wrote the previous message so I completely blanked on this, but for the record, I did write a clop sequence in Twisted already. It's chapter 3. I don't know why I forgot that.
EDIT: I did like your Diamond and Silver sequence quite a lot. They were adorable together. If you want to write a story about them I will happily read it. Or you could make a response to my story and call it Silver Polish. I only wrote that last sentence for the sake of the pun.
Shouldn't Rarity’s garden be first? When I went to read tarnished silver it said it was a sequel to that story.
5777731
Oh my God, how did I not notice this mistake for twelve years?
Thanks, this is fixed now!
5778074
Glad I helped you realize your mistake. How are you anyway?