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Noble Thought


I sometimes pretend I have a posting schedule other than "sometime soon."

More Blog Posts146

  • 108 weeks
    Personal life disruption

    Hey, everyone. I felt I owed you all an explanation for why it's now two weeks past the last scheduled update for Primrose War.

    So, I've had a bit of a personal upheaval. I'm moving forward with building a house, not immediately, but there's been a lot of talking with friends and family about what it'll mean going forward. So that's one thing.

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    7 comments · 409 views
  • 124 weeks
    Unexpected Hiatus

    Hello everyone. I wanted to apologize for the lengthy, unexpected hiatus of The Primrose War. It was definitely unplanned, and this time I haven't been writing. Work, leading up to the holidays, has been more stressful than usual with the rush to get things done before I take my two week end-of-year vacation.

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    1 comments · 291 views
  • 129 weeks
    Next chapter delayed

    Hello everyone! I apologize, but the next chapter of Primrose War will be delayed by a bit. Between work and a few novel releases that I've been looking forward to, I haven't made as much progress as I wanted to on the next chapter. I do have a solid outline, though, for the rest of the book as well as part of the next, so I haven't been idle.

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    0 comments · 268 views
  • 140 weeks
    Update: The Primrose War coming back in 7 days

    Good afternoon, morning, or whatever time it is for all of you lovely people.

    First of all, we're coming back on August 27th, one week from today. Hooray!

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    1 comments · 258 views
  • 145 weeks
    Pre-Book 3 Hiatus (Don't panic!)

    Good evening everyone!

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    1 comments · 283 views
Apr
22nd
2014

World Building: Primal Past - Creation Myth · 1:29am Apr 22nd, 2014

Alright... So following some thought... a lot of thought about the nature of the second story and it's place within the mythos of the world I'm trying to build, so I wrote a piece of... what is supposed to be a spoken word story passed down by generations. It might not be pretty to read, but it's in a style that I hope conveys a creation style myth passed along for so long only in spoken word form. So... Here goes. The Creation Myth passed down through generation upon generation of ponies within the Primal Herd.

Getting the formatting right on this to fit within the little box is frustrating. Just.. Urgh. There... Ugh. Now it looks the way it was originally supposed to.

The formatting was part of the art of the creation myth, part of what was supposed to make it feel like a spoken word origin. The rising and falling of cadence, along with the gradual increase in length followed by a slump in the middle. It's suppose to be this way. Anyway... Sorry if it looks a bit small, but I cain't make the box wider.

Warning: This is 1400 words long... so almost a short story length read.

First Mare was the beginning.
She looked upon all that was upon the world and felt alone.
Rocks, barren soil, lifeless skies. There was nothing for her to care for.
She stamped her hoof, breaking apart the new world and shaking the land.
She flapped her wings and sent wind and rain howling across the barren soil.
She raised her horn and woke the sun, commanding it to look after her world.

It was better. The land, the sky and the sun were her children.

But her children were not happy.
Every time the sun woke, it complained that there was no life to greet it.
Every time the wind howled, it complained that there was no life to cherish it.
Every time the ground shook, it complained that there was no life to grow in it.
None of the three could talk to the others, for there was no life any of them shared.

As a good mother, she wanted their happiness.
From the air, she brought the need to call for life.
From the earth, she brought the need to care for life.
From the sun, she brought the need to watch over life.
From within herself, she brought the need to create life.

These things she placed within her womb and, for a year, nurtured them, loving them all.
When it was time, the wind stood still, the ground fell quiet, and the sun stopped in its track.

First Mare was in labor. She was about to give birth.
The first were three ponies. She named them Sun, Sky, and Earth.

Sun did not like her name. "You already have a daughter named sun," she said.
First Mare smiled, "Then I shall name you Unicorn," and gave her daughter a horn like hers.
Sky did not like her name. "You already have a daughter named sky," she said.
First Mare smiled again, "Then I shall name you Pegasus," and gave her daughter wings like hers.

Earth was quiet. She liked her name and her namesake.
"What of you, my daughter Earth? What shall I name you?"
"I wish to be named Earth, mother, I think that it suits me well."
First Mare smiled, "Then you shall be named Earth, my lovely child."
She gave her daughter strong hooves to tend the child whose name she bore.

The sun still stood in its track, the ground was still quiet, and the wind remained idle.

First Mare gave birth to the plants and animals.
To her daughter, Earth, she said, "Watch over them all, they will need your hooves to care for them."

First Mare gave birth to the clouds in the blue sky.
To her daughter, Pegasus, she said, "Care for them and tend to them, they will need your wings to guide them."

First Mare gave birth to the moon and all the stars in the night.
To her daughter, Unicorn, she said, "Guide the sun, the stars, and the moon, they will need your horn to awaken."

First Mare left her daughters to care for their charges, but soon grew concerned.
Though Pegasus was diligent in her care for the wind, clouds, and rain and loved to play in them, she looked lonely.
Though Unicorn was diligent in her care for the sun, the moon and the stars and loved to study them, she looked lonely.
Though Earth cared for the life of the earth and guided her sisters to bring them what they needed, she too looked lonely.

"What is wrong, my children?"

Earth, the first to answer, said, "I am lonely... There are no other ponies for me to share my love of life with."
Pegasus, the second to answer, said, "I am lonely... There are no other ponies for me to fly and play in the sky with."
Unicorn, the last to answer, said, "I am lonely... There are no other ponies for me to share the moon, sun and stars with."

"Why do you not play, love and share with each other?" First Mare asked.

"We have, and we do. We love each other. But," Earth, Unicorn and Pegasus said together.

"I do not love plants and animals the way Earth does, nor do I love the wind, clouds and rain the way Pegasus does," Unicorn said.
"I do not love the sun, moon, and stars the way Unicorn does, nor do I love plants and animals the way Earth does," Pegasus said.
"I do not love the sky or the wind the way Pegasus does, nor do I love the sun, moon, and stars the way Unicorn does," Earth said.

First Mare thought long and hard about her children's complaints before she came upon a solution.

"I will make for each of you a companion. I must take your names and give you new ones."
With that, she took away all of her children's names and placed them inside herself again.

From those names she birthed three new mares, each appearing the same as the one whose name she had taken.
When she looked upon her newest children, unable to tell youngest from eldest, she knew that she had made a mistake.
She thought again, long and hard. What more could she give to her daughters that would set them apart from one another?
To each of her six daughters, she gave a mark to wear upon their flanks, a sign of her love and a symbol of their own private joy.

"You must now choose your own names, my children," she said to the six ponies, her six children.
The six nameless mares looked up at their mother, then at the marks on their flanks.

"We will be unicorns," said the pair with horns.
"We will be pegasi," said the pair with wings.
"We will be earth ponies," said the pair with neither.

"That is what you are," First Mare decided.
"But what of your names?"

"I am Star Shine," decided the first unicorn.
"I am Moon Beam," decided the second.

"I am Rain Cloud," decided the first pegasus.
"I am Wind Song," decided the second.

"I am Green Leaf," decided the first earth pony.
"I am River Rush," decided the second.

"Then be happy, my children," said First Mare.

And so they were. For a long time, her six children were happy with each other.
But they came back in the spring time, when the animals were raising their new young.

"Mother," they said, "why can we not have children of our own?"

"We have tried," Green Leaf said.
"We love each other," Star Shine said.
"We care for each other," Rain Cloud said.

"We don't become heavy with new foals," Wind Song said.
"We don't feel joy growing stronger within us," River Rush said.
"We don't feel the magic of new life in our wombs," Star Shine said.

First Mare saw that this was true and remembered the joy she had felt, feeling their lives growing within her.

"You are right, my children. I cannot hold back the joy of motherhood from you. Nor can I part with all of mine," First Mare said.
She took some of that joy she had felt and from it crafted three new ponies, different from her daughters. The rest, she kept.

She placed these new ponies between each pair of daughters and bade them to speak their names.

"I am Comet Chaser," said the unicorn stallion between Rain Cloud and River Rush.
"I am Crashing Thunder," said the pegasus stallion between Green Leaf and Star Shine.
"I am Sturdy Mountain," said the earth pony stallion between Moon Beam and Wind Song.

All six of her daughters looked at the stallion placed closest to them and looked up to their mother.

First Mare forestalled her children's questions with a snort that shook the land, the skies and the heavens.

"You have been given all that I can give, my daughters. I can give no more of the joy that I feel," she said.
"You may continue as you have, cherishing each other as you wish, but bear only the love you feel for each other."
"Or you may also choose to find your love with any stallion. To each of you, I will give the blessing and the joy of foals."
"Your joy is all that I wish for you. Find it in whatever way you desire, my children. I can do no more to make you happy."

With that, she left her children to the world she'd given life to, to watch them from afar as they lived their lives.
With First Mare's blessing, the nine ponies began to have children and spread across the great plains she had made.
The herd grew and split. Those herds grew and split again, then again as her sons and daughters spread across the land.

Each foal is blessed by First Mare, who gave birth to us all. Cherish every foal, for joy comes when a mare gives birth.
In this tale we celebrate the wondrous gift of life that First Mare bestowed upon the land and rejoice in the unity we all share.


This is the first iteration of it. It's likely to change before I'm done... This was done in a few hours, so it's hardly polished, but there's at least six or seven more intermittent hours of thought behind it. ... Should I make it a story? I'm not sure it would pass submission standards, honestly. It's a bit of lore, not necessarily a full story. Even if it does tell a story, it's a lore item for a much larger story.

Anyway... I borrowed a LOT from the Navajo creation myth (First Mare, for example, is similar to First Woman) but from there I went a different direction, borrowing a bit from Greek/Roman mythology in that gods can procreate with themselves by taking things and... well, Mythology. It doesn't have to make good sense, it just has to make a kind of sense.

What do y'all think? Story or no story? Decent, not so decent? I'm leaning towards no story, honestly, but maybe include it in a chapter... kinda like the back matter and extra tidbits in some novels.

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Comments ( 21 )

2033416

Thanks! It's a different style than I normally write in. The stanza style with the gradually increasing length of lines was kinda hard to pull off. I really had to plumb my brain for vocabulary.

It's sounds like a good idea :) I agree with it being more of lore than a story :3

Very sweet. I like this a lot. :pinkiesmile:

I have a huge fondness for this kind of mythos.

2036678

I really enjoyed writing it. It felt really good to put down, then revise and re-revise. I'm thinking the ending two sentences might be a benediction for a blessing of birth, rather than retelling the whole story, the elder would preside over the birth and say something like those two lines when presenting the foal to the herd. Like this:

Cherish this foal, for joy comes when a mare gives birth. Today, we celebrate the wondrous gift of life that First Mare has bestowed upon our herd. Rejoice in unity.

Cue the magics: growing plants, twinkling the stars, and the rushing wind, followed by the wildest party ever seen on the primal prairie.

2036827
Even better. :pinkiehappy:

Although, if you're up for it, I hope you write something for stallions as well (not a creation story, but just something they could be proud of.) I think they might feel left out if they don't have one. :pinkiesad2:

2037103

Just as the Navajo myth had First Man and First Woman, so too must First Mare have First Stallion. I've already got a bit of lore cooking on the back burners for him. I didn't think it fit into the creation myth, though, so I left it out. Also... The bits I have come up with are... probably not bloggable material.

Together, they create the other hooved races.

Including the Windigos. Neither one likes to think about those children very much.

2037137

Also... The bits I have come up with are... probably not bloggable material.

Don't worry. Almost everything I write has that problem. :rainbowlaugh:

I like that concept though. I wonder if the other creatures know about this? :rainbowkiss:

Minotaurs might be the most confused.

As for the Windigo... I wonder who blames who for that? Probably why they don't talk about it. :trollestia:

2037195

Well... It's a myth. Not necessarily the truth. I'm sure the other hooved races have their own ideas on where they came from.

I tried to tie in the traits of the ponies into the myth to give a mythological explanation for why things are the way they are, including the skewed ratio of mares to stallions with mares being more common.

Since this is a story from a pony perspective, I doubt that there'll be much in there except that "First Mare and First Stallion lay together and their [REDACTED] brought about the rest of the sentient races." along those lines kinda thing. Heavens shook, continents shifted, oceans rose and fell... you know, just normal cosmic sex.

2037206

Well... It's a myth. Not necessarily the truth. I'm sure the other hooved races have their own ideas on where they came from.

Oh no! I realize. I meant to say that I wondered what they thought about it when they heard it. The minotaurs and any other chimerical sorts strike me as being doubly amused and bemused by that idea, considering most of them are everything but pony. :raritywink:

"Wait, you think we all came from ponies? ...How does that work again?"

Although perhaps some of them think it's quaint or the typical sort of concept (deities in our image) etc. :twilightsheepish:

I tried to tie in the traits of the ponies into the myth to give a mythological explanation for why things are the way they are, including the skewed ratio of mares to stallions with mares being more common.

Yeah, I figured. And I'll admit I don't care for the latter head canon, but this is probably one of the few instances where I found it more amusing than unrealistic. At least if that were the case, they'd want to come up with a reason to explain it to themselves. :duck:

Since this is a story from a pony perspective, I doubt that there'll be much in there except that "First Mare and First Stallion lay together and their [REDACTED] brought about the rest of the sentient races." along those lines kinda thing. Heavens shook, continents shifted, oceans rose and fell... you know, just normal cosmic sex.

Normal cosmic sex. I like that phrase. :rainbowlaugh: :rainbowwild:

2037225

Yeah, I figured. And I'll admit I don't care for the latter head canon, but this is probably one of the few instances where I found it more amusing than unrealistic. At least if it were true, they'd want to come up with a reason to explain it to themselves. :duck:

I actually kinda figure the reason it's skewed so much is that while there may be an equal number of stallions born, not as many make it to full adulthood or simply wander the plains looking for another herd to join... Or never grow to full adulthood because they're wandering the plains looking for another herd to join while the mares have a tendency to stay in the same herd while the males are more transient (just like real, young horses.)

Or just because the primal world is more dangerous and wild than the world of the future and since real stallions tend to protect the herd from danger, it's them on the front lines doing a lot of the protecting from things that think ponies are tasty. Mares defend the foals, stallions defend the mares.

Because the primal world is not just sunshine and lollipops. Carnivores have to eat, and we've seen some pretty deadly looking carnivores even in the show.

Somethin' along one of those lines. Can't have the same members of the same herd breeding for generations now. Kinda gets... Yeah.

I must be getting tired. That last comment was... a jumbled mess.

2037255
Good point. I forgot about the time frame. I think it probably wouldn't be especially skewed though, depending on the way things work. After all, unfortunately mares and foals do tend to get killed quite a bit, since they're easier targets and the fewer stallions that can help guard them, the fewer targets those stallions make. It's possible it's an adaption to that too though. Not as many males are needed as are females, in those circumstances, though I don't think it'd be birth rate so much as survival rate for sure. :pinkiecrazy:

I would say for sapient ponies though, they probably do have more stallions than an IRL herd. Of course that would also depend on what sort of bonding is considered acceptable and how they handle family and society dynamics overall. I'm not saying it can't be low numbers, but I'm thinking probably something closer to the middle of the extremes most people think of?

I sleep now. :ajsleepy:

2037286

I wasn't quite thinking a 2-1 mare to stallion ratio... but, being sapient ponies with a full range of sexual identities, and, being creatures with an intense need to bond with another pony, I'm seriously thinking that monogamy is the game of the day with a strong family lineage circuit going on - not only for pride purposes, but also for more... anti-squicky purposes.

I'm thinking probably a 1.5-1 mare to stallion ratio or 1.333-1. Something along those lines. Not enough to be seriously skewed, but enough so that it can't just be a statistical anomaly either. Of course, the far past ratio would be more skewed than the future ratio.

Impressive. Most impressive.

I'm actually thinking of evolving this myth into Hearth's Warming Eve times and turning it much more greek - to where Rulers are said to be descendents of First Mare - only they call her something different in the future... past... whatever. That would be a reason for the flags, at least, that there pre-existed a concept of an alicorn before one existed in the flesh.

If you don't mind a suggestion, this sounds like a good motivation for conquest. Chiefs of different herds could declare themselves the true descendent of First Mare, like the pharaohs, and try to dominate all others to prove it. Maybe...they could see the concept of an alicorn as...a promise? Like, "Become great enough, and you will have this. Prove yourself worthy to join your mother."

That idea won't fit Hearth's Warming Eve, though. The three tribes weren't exactly friends in the pageant, but they weren't outright killing each other either.

2110365

Unless Hearth's Warming Eve is a vast simplification for what actually happened. What if, instead of over the course of a season or two, the decline was over a hundred years, with the inciting events taking place six months into a year long winter. Distrust already rampant, it takes a stunning event for them to even come to the negotiating table. The only thing they decide on is that the lands are no longer suitable for living, and so they set out to find new lands by three different routes over an ice bridge that's formed between two continents over the long winter.

That idea won't fit Hearth's Warming Eve, though. The three tribes weren't exactly friends in the pageant, but they weren't outright killing each other either.

Maybe not all out war - but certainly skirmishes and raids on the last few larders with food. Famine and death are common, as are diseases that prey on the weak. Ponykind is on the brink of extinction. Into that world, but distant from it at first, come Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle (disguised as a unicorn.)

If you don't mind a suggestion, this sounds like a good motivation for conquest. Chiefs of different herds could declare themselves the true descendent of First Mare, like the pharaohs, and try to dominate all others to prove it. Maybe...they could see the concept of an alicorn as...a promise? Like, "Become great enough, and you will have this. Prove yourself worthy to join your mother."

I may use that as a background event that leads from the distant distant past of the primal herds to the events of Hearth's Warming Eve. The three tribes need to disunify from their peaceful coexistence somehow. The arrival of t- an alicorn could certainly seem to set a precedent. Especially if one herd finds her and accepts her first, or one tribe tries to claim her as theirs and no other's.

:trollestia:

2110414

Unless Hearth's Warming Eve is a vast simplification for what actually happened.

I'm not sure about the vast part of that. Equestria would probably have a fairly accurate historical record of that time. It was their founding, plus Clover the Clever was there. Given how much modern Equestria knows about her teacher, it makes sense that they would know a fair bit about was really happened.

2110490

Spike: [with a faux British accent] Once upon a time, long before the peaceful rule of Celestia, and before ponies discovered our beautiful land of Equestria, ponies did not know harmony. It was a strange and dark time. A time when ponies were torn apart... by hatred!

I'm actually not completely sold on her being mentored directly by Star Swirl. I'm thinking there was a Clover the Clever named afterwards, to take on the role that Twilight actually filled during that time period (Covering my plot holes... or trying to,) so that when she returned to the future, there would remain a continuity. There would have also been a Private Pansy to take Rainbow Dash's place (There's already a Commander Hurricane in the past...) and the leaders would be wise enough, hopefully, to keep everything hush hush when Star Swirl came back to find out what had caused the timeline to muck up back in the past.

While there, he mentored Clover the Clever, providing that bit, but he had no role in the banishment of the Windigos, nor was he actually seen anywhere during the events. But he's there when Celestia and Luna were there... Curious, no?

It makes more sense if he's a time traveller and space warper. It explains why he made the mirrors, as well.

2110516
Alright, I'll defer to you. You know more canon than I do. I had to look up what you meant by mirrors.

2110542

I do enjoy debate, my friend. I know I have a large, large potential for plot holes in this story... There's just so much that the show doesn't tell us. I'm happy that you pointed that out. I'd honestly forgotten about Star Swirl being a mentor to Clover the clever and had to quick cover my plot hole with something. But... I'd been thinking that Star Swirl was a time traveller anyway.

One way to tell time in the ancient past - to tell the difference between the years, decades and centuries - was to track the motions of the heavens - in particular constellations. In other words - watching the stars swirling about in their eternal dance.

As we move through the galactic medium, the stars change position in relation to us (well, and galaxies, nebulae, etc) and the position of everything changes over time.

So... Star Swirl. Possibly a reference to how ancient peoples tracked time at night.

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