• Member Since 11th Oct, 2012
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Badly Drawn Turtle


To seek the truth is to journey alone. To speak the truth is to be alone.

Short Stories, And Stories That Wish They Were Longer
8

A Little Bit About Me

About Me

Best Bowling Score: 234

Motto: An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Attributed to: Unknown. (Gandhi may have said it; Martin Luther King did say it; a member of the 12th Canadian Parliament, possibly George Perry Graham, said something similar.)

Current Writing Mood: Almost Making Progress :raritydespair:


Currently


Thumb Wrestling With the Procrastination Demon (Not to Be Confused With Daemon)

Mar
20th
2019

Captain Marvel: Actual Facts · 5:06am 4 hours ago

The current front of the culture wars is super hero movies; led off by Captain Marvel, which long before release was hawked as a feminist story by the directors, actors, and advertising, and criticized by - let's say "non-feminists" to keep things objective - for exactly that. Since the movie's release, progressive media outlets have been celebrating the movie's astounding success, while the opposition has been claiming bullshit and saying the movie is a failure. Instead of wading into the

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"But the turtle isn't badly drawn!"

- Kiki03000

2583244
What you call ‘entrenched in our psychology’, I call ‘social taboo with no moral basis’. The sex of the parties involved is irrelevant; to suggest otherwise is to suggest that one sex inherently has more responsibility for personal choice than the other.

2583037
2583014

Just wanted to add something since the thread got locked before I could post:

This is going to be controversial as hell, but there's a real difference between older guy/younger girl pairings and older girl/younger guy pairings. This is what I mean:

A 30 year old guy has sex with a 14 year old girl: Everyone wants to throw the creep in jail.
A 14 year old guy has sex with a 30 year old girl: All the guys are high-fiving the 14 year old in the locker room for a job well done.

I hate double-standards, but this one is too entrenched in our psychology for me to ignore. I'd consider lesbian pairings in the same category as an old girl/young guy pairing since there is no older man manipulating a young for sex.

2583014
I already went through why moral relativism utterly fails at producing useful results, so I'm not going to go into that again.

If you would like some explanation bullshitted off the top of my head as to why it is seen as wrong and why, in my beliefs, it is wrong, in a technicality a child’s brain is not fully developed, and thus cannot fully render whether giving consent is the right choice. They are more malleable. This can easily be a reason as to why I believe my own moral belief to be “above” your own, if you’d like to put it in such a sense.

I agree. When there's a child involved. And you're not ‘bullshitting’, you're building off of the harm principle; it causes material harm to the child, therefore it is wrong. This is actual useful morality, because it can be objectively debated and agreed upon by reasonable people. On the other hand, you didn't even try to bullshit an explanation for fictional child porn being wrong… even though that was the topic.

Additionally, on the whole comparison thing, again you are misconstruing my words.

I'm not misconstruing, you just didn't comparison right. To put it more clearly: You're attempting to compare a one-sided scale to a two-sided scale. Yes, there is a neutral in morality. But both paper airplanes and jets have positive, non-zero velocities; they are both on the same ‘side’ of neutral, and so would sensibly represent in a comparison two things on the same side of neutral.
Not to mention that your position of moral relativism means that you can't claim that being gay or being a pedophile are in any particular place on the scale, anyway. If morality is merely your personal view, then you can't make any interpersonal decisions based on it because the other people's views are just as true. (Well, I guess I did go into it again…)

2582993

Child porn, as a category of fiction, viewing material, etc. is not agoodthing.

I wouldn't claim it's a good thing. I would claim it's a neutral thing. I hope you're planning on backing up why you insist that it's a bad thing, other than just appealing to cultural norms, which is equally effective at defending things like slavery and honor killings.

but I can think of few cultures where pedophilia is not seen as taboo or something wrong. Trying to state that child pornography is, in some inherent way, not wrong is simply silly.

To be clear, I'm commenting as I read. As I predicted, you've forgone backing up your argument with a good foundation in preference of appealing to culture, going as far as to claim that disagreeing with the prevailing culture is ‘silly’. So early anti-slavery advocates were ‘silly’. Martin Luther King Jr. was ‘silly’. Anybody and everybody who opposed the cultural norms of their time was just being silly.

it will be seen as and is something of a negative nature.

Where you make it absolutely explicit that you think perception that something is wrong makes something wrong. I fundamentally disagree. See my previous references to opposition to slavery for why that reasoning is absurd.

I never said nor even implied such a thing, that one has more of a sexual preference. Now you are just twisting my words, I was speaking in that comparison on two levels; one, the two things were of the same category. Gay, pedophile, are both sexual preferences. Paper airplane, jet, both things that fly. Second, some meter or degree to which they could be measured, and I will admit that I was not clear. Things that can fly being measured on speed, while sexual preferences being measured on their moral rightness, so to say.

Where you confirm that my original interpretation was correct: According to your comparison, as a paper airplane is slow compared to a jet, being gay is less morally wrong than being a pedophile. But that still remains the implication that being gay is morally wrong to some extent. As I said I don't think that's what you mean, but you still need to work on your comparisons.

Before you say it, yes, I do understand that many believe gays to be taboo in their own right. I do not share these values, yet do believe pedophilia to be wrong, and as I have stated before, morality/bias/the lens through which one sees such an issue is all based on cultural upbringing, and I have acknowledged that.

Moral relativism alert! No, right and wrong is not based solely on cultural upbringing. There are different potential systems for morality, some of which are based on authoritarian rules (religions and monarchies run on this), and others which are based on reasoning from basic principles (this is often what philosophers try to do). All of these systems are supported, disseminated, and enforced by the culture they are embedded in, but cultural upbringing does not create them, nor does it give them their power. Different moral systems can absolutely be compared on their relative merits, and I think you'll find that ones built from basic principles (I'm partial to the freedom doctrine and the harm doctrine) are more robust than the authoritarian rulebooks that you're used to pointing to.
Moral relativism like you have expressed is self-defeating. If morality is fully and completely rooted in what your society says, then nobody's morality can be said to be better than anybody else's. This leads to the untenable situation where someone can shoot up a mall and then claim that their one-person society says this is okay. As a moral relativist, you have no argument against this; you have no means to claim this person is wrong, because their morality is just as valid as your own. This is why moral systems built upon reasoning from first principles are superior: Instead of having to accept that everyone's personal view of morality is equal, you can ask a more concrete question, like whether a person was injured by the act, or whether somebody's freedoms were restricted.

I'm highly flattered to have "You Remind Me Of You" join your Best of the Best list! It joins some prestigious company, a lot of which I can enthusiastically second as high-quality.

Thank you for reading and enjoying! :twilightsmile:

2566110
“Read the Complete Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.”

If you were about to die but could broadcast one message to the world to hear, what would that message be?

Thanks for reading The Secret Life of... Applejack! There's plenty of other The Secret Life of... stories if you're interested.

Dreadnought

2438971
I've definitely enjoyed her success vicariously, that is why I am taking her story idea and turning it into a novel length thing that will likely be 300 K words plus. Honestly she has great ideas, and we have fun bouncing more ideas off of each other to give sub-plots, context, and realistic ways of aging the MLP characters up about 6 years. Watching season 7 has been great so far, because apparently the show writers are after the same thing, advancing the characters forward, which is great to see. If you check out Amulet of Shades, leave an opinion if you please... She was tickled that Fluttershy's Sanctuary can work well with what we have already planned for, and that Rainbow Dash's episode today didn't spoil something important that would cause us to slap an AU tag on there... :rainbowwild:

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