Exactly as the topic says.

What exactly is it about our fandom that attracts so many misanthropes?

In particular, why does TCB bring out the worst of these people? I mean the way they portray Humanity makes us seem like a planet of sadistic warmongering psychopaths? And they portray the entire Earth as a shithole.

I'll admit, we're not perfect, far from it, but most people are genuinely nice and we are trying to clean up the Earth.

And yet someone (whom we've probably all met) says that their corporate run, dystopia is better than reality.

301235

If you've ever read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, I think Harry says it best when having a discussion about cynicism:

"Why does any kind of cynicism appeal to people? Because it seems like a mark of maturity, of sophistication, like you've seen everything and know better. Or because putting something down feels like pushing yourself up. Or they don't have a phoenix themselves, so their political instinct tells them there's no advantage to be gained from saying nice things about phoenixes. Or because being cynical feels like knowing a secret truth that common people don't know..." Harry Potter looked in the direction of the Head Table, and his voice dropped until it was almost a whisper. "I think maybe that's what he's getting wrong - that he's cynical about everything else, but not about cynicism itself."

As for why our fandom attracts them... I guess they see the ponies as some sort of perfect alternate ideal. A sort of "angels in heaven", if you will. Of course, that is a disservice to the creativity of the show and the sheer amount of humanity the writers have managed to stuff into these technicolored, cartoon horses. We've seen Trixie, and the brothers FlimFlam, and Luna (as NMM), and the Canterlot nobles, and even our own beloved mane 6 display every human foible short of murder (and if it wasn't a kids show, I wouldn't be surprised if that was put on display, as well).

And what makes them truly interesting and relatable is that they don't always overcome their flaws. They're not perfect. Far from it... but they accept each other in spite of their flaws, they learn to see past the bad bits and acknowledge the good, and teach us to do the same. That's why we love them. Not because they're perfect... but because, like us, they aren't.

Misanthropy takes that concept of acceptance and just shits all over it, and it makes me mad sometimes. Everything about it runs counter to that core moral lesson of the show.

Soooo... yeah. That's my overly-passionate 2 cents.

I agree with what Invictus said about the "angels in heaven" deal. They see this better world (admittedly, Equestria is better, mostly because its just so easy to live in) and how everyone seemingly gets along, and they feel let down by us. Even if some of them gloss over the less favorable aspects of Equestria.

To me, the misanthropes, particular TCB, bring out the very worst this fandom has to offer. It's not an interest in MLP, it's an obsession. Their desire for wish fulfillment to become perfect happy ponies and leave all the nasty human stuff behind. This isn't limited to TCB obviously, but that's the most prominent.

301235 Ah, yes, her fanfics.

"Here, my stories show how humans REALLY act!" And then she puts a corporate world government (her exact words IIRC) in her setting. Guess she has to make humanity monolithically evil somehow, even if that means ignoring the real fact that there's two hundred countries out there and a lot of them get in border conflicts on a regular basis. One real-life bad aspect of humanity and she promptly ignores it in favor of a hilariously unrealistic fantasy bad aspect of humanity.

301440

Well said!

301256
Obsession I think maybe too mild a word. To be crass but blunt, some people (especially some TCB authors) treat their views with a seemingly religious fervor. A certain author that I will not name but is hinted at in the opening speech of this group constantly complained about the Earth in a very well known story starring everyone's favorite mint-green Human obsessed unicorn not being a complete shithole and how everyone was too nice to her. Oh, this isn't a TCB story.

301440
Do you take philosophy? It's worthy of being used as a speech in a philisophy class.

And it's a more elaborate version of what I want to say. Thank you for this.

--------

On a side note, it's also bit unfair that HiE fics usually get stigmatized as being misanthropic, when they may not deserve it.

301256>>301356>>301459

Before any discussions start up about the author everyone (including me) has referenced as an example of misanthropy at its worst, I decided I'd like to nip it in the bud. I made this group to condemn the idea of misanthropy, not the people who live by it. "Hate the sin, not the (wo)man" and all that.

Feel free to post quotes of dissenting opinions and whole dissertations on why they're wrong, if you like. But try to keep the focus on the opinion itself and its logic, rather than the author who promotes it.

Now, so far, no one has actually done or said anything objectionable in the least, so don't take this comment as any sort of reprimand... but I do want to preemptively remind us all (including myself) to try our best to keep our discussions about concepts rather than people. I won't be a nazi about it, but I do think we'll all be better/happier for it if we do.

Additionally, while I would never expect it of anyone who's posted here so far (you all seem like good, rational, intelligent people), I will also preemptively state that I will not tolerate baltant, abusive ad hominem attacks in any fashion from anyone, against anyone in these message threads (regardless of whether they "deserve" it or not). That I will be a remorseless nazi about, because that is the opposite of what this group is about.

Now that I've gotten that unpleasantness out of the way, please continue this wonderful discussion. You guys have all made brilliant, quote-worthy points and I'm utterly fascinated by the opinions and thoughts set forth here.

301481 Well, I dislike bashing particular people in a place where everyone can see it; it makes them look bad and it makes me look bad.

301500

Glad we agree!

And please know, the message was directed at everyone here now and in the future. The posts I replied to (including yours) are not guilty of anything more than merely vaguely referencing a particular author, which is well-within acceptable parameters.

Again, not a reprimand, just a notification as to how I hope things will be.

Side-note: not ever post has to be a philosophical dissertation. Feel free to talk about pretty much anything on these boards.

Anyway, as you were, gentlemen! Let the discussion continue to flourish.

One thing that's always baffled me about the misanthropes in this fandom is that so many of them paint Equestria as the perfect place, the exact antithesis of the "evil" humanity... Except, Equestria is a creation of humanity, along with every concept that it represents. On a broader scale, so too are "good" and "evil" human-made concepts, and "evil" is defined as a bad trait. I don't quite understand how one can claim that humanity is evil by default when evil is one of the things that is condemned by society.

307657
You hit it right on the nail there: Equestria, as idyllic and foreign a world as it may be compared to ours, is a human concept. The Princesses, despite being all-powerful and nigh-immortal aren't perfect. As much as they can be compared to real deities they are still fallible, they are normal beings whom have been blessed with the gift (or curse, depending on how you look at it) of great power, knowledge and longevity. In this world, Equestria, while a totalitarian principality by our standards, is easily the best form of government for the country. Simply because the Princesses have been a guide for ponydom for at least a millennium and, from what we are shown from the show, it is a great place to live: little to no crime, no apparent problems with food or diseases, peaceful...

At first sight Equestria looks like heaven compared to the majority of our nations. But then people seem to overlook the problems that they have.

Remember the deadly animals from the Everfree? Manticores, hydras, Cerebrus, hell, even dragons are a threat. Remember how well prepared Ponyville was for a dragon rampage? No police or security force besides the Wonderbolts who must've flown in from Canterlot or another big town had intervened. As peaceful as it can get, if I were a resident I'd feel a lot safer with some form of social security.

Even the ponies are not the perfect angels that many authors depict. They are, despite all organic differences, humans; at least, they are very reminiscent of humans. They think like we do, they act like we do, they feel like we do. Many are friendly, some are push-overs who prey on the shy, some are great contributors to society, and some do have their nervous breakdowns. Even the good ponies have their very, very bad moments.

It's my belief that this is part of what makes the show so appealing not just to young girls but to adults of either gender. It'd be quite the analytical study to dissect what makes the cartoon show so popular among adult crowds.

307973 I also plan to bring in alot of realism to the world of ponies. but without destroying the sense of hope,because that's something we badly need in reality.