So one topic that has been brought up a few times, in the other threads is the line of Talent marks or Profession marks. Are our ponies (and other animals in fact) going to have such marks? And if they are, where are they going to be?

Bare in mind, if the idea resembles Hasbro's Cutiemarks too closely, even if they get them for different reasons or have a different name for it, it's a no go.

I personally have thought about them having some sort of profession mark that ponies could have on a scarf or something. They'd have it over their shoulders, or wrapped around their necks. IT could either mean what profession they've choosen, or what family they're apart of. It could even be more of a a badge to show what clan they're apart of (I like that idea)

What are your thoughts on this? An keep in mind, we're talking about the core species right now Ponies (of their varieties), Dragons (Possible of more than one variety), Humans, Minitars, and Griffins.

5507319 Should we have them get them like the get Glyph-Mark 2:20-2:55
But on there shoulder

You know what I mean ?

5507599 Sorta. Think of a coat of arms type of deal, only each profession has a different coat of arms so you can see it and say, "That's a carpenter" or "that's a blacksmith" type of thing.

the other idea is taking a page from historic Scotland and just having them have tribal tartans, so they can identify what house their from.

Combine those two together! The tartan so the house or tribe is known and the symbol so the profession is identified! Have it be like a tartan cloth, and slung around the shoulder! Since they'll be standing up, it's clear to see! I like it!

5507622 MHM..

the tribal tartans is the BackGround,
and on it we have the coat of arms type

5507629 Yeah. So it could even be that the tartan represents what part of the land the come from, and the coat of arms is what family? Or the tartan could be what profession they are, and the coat of arms is their family?

5507636 mhm...

the tribal tartans is the BackGround,
Then the Family-Crest
and then on the Family-Crest, we have the coat of arms type

p.s. The Family-Crest, are jest a colored shields
Or something like that.

5507651 Yeah, I like that idea. Let me hear some other ideas first, if there are, and then I'll take that to the mods and see what they think.

5507319 As I mentioned before we can keep with the markings, but go with symbols that were used through out the ancient world. Each one being a representation that the individual has done something to earn it. This also means that an individual isn't limited to one mark, it allows for them to have as many as they like. Or as few as they like.

It would also show that they have to complete a task to earn the marks, and said marks would have to be applied to them either by branding or tattooing them. There can also be markings for apprenticeship and master hood for certain skills such as black smith, carpenter, seamstress, scholar, architect the list goes on.

5507599
5507622

If it's on the shoulder, then we're really thinking of something like this, then, from "Lion Guard":

That suddenly appeared magically when he was defending a friend of his, sort of like a cutie mark...

Maybe the marks are added magically by either some sort of spell or artifact. You get one mark for completing an apprenticeship in a trade, and a different one for being a member of a particular clan or family, with additions to it for being the heir or head of family. (You could potentially have more than one mark. They don't even really have to all be in the same place, honestly...)

--Sweetie Belle

5508313 Let's have mostly jest one, some times 2, but not more then 3.

5508383 Let's have that most of the time it's on the shoulder.

Shod we have that:
magically appears
Somepony does a spell
OR this

5508402
I was kinda thinking of a ceremony, where you have somepony that either magically puts it on, or uses a magical device, like some sort of magical permanent marker to add the mark.

This is all brainstorming, btw. Nothing I say is canon unless I say "this is canon!" or it shows up in the locked canon thread...

--Sweetie Belle

5508431 How about...

They do have a ceremony, when they come to age. The drink a potion and stand on a Magical-Stone. and then their Mark magically appears.

But is that with every one
Or jest the ponies ?

5508431 I like that idea, however Hasbro has a staple on the whole magical appearance of marks. And branding is permanent, and in some small case so is tattoos. Though a tattoo could use a touch up from time to time.

And from what Gear explained to me a while back, he was trying to get away from what hasbro does so he can make it legal. This would mean that we have to step away from the magical appearance or devices to put them on, as hasbro could argue that it is a blatant rip off of their work. Even with the obvious change to it.

Showing that the marks are mundane and not magical in nature, this gives leeway to the fact that though we use markings. The way they are earned is different, requiring methods that are much similar to our own.

5508453
5508460
The thing is, branding'd be on skin, and fur would cover it up. I was kinda thinking more like the magical part was what was keeping it showing on there, even after several seasons. So it'd be like you were actually drawing it on with a pen, not it just appearing, but the pen is magical to make it stay.

I'm not sure Hasbro has cutie marks totally locked up, anyways. That lion I posted earlier is Disney, and that was the "mark of the guard", which magically appeared on him.

I also was kinda thinking it'd be nice if the marks were for everyone, not just ponies.

Gear would be the ultimate decider on it, though.

--Sweetie Belle

Well in some cases yes, fur could cover up branding. However in the area where the flesh is burned, it remains mostly bare and the mark is clear to see. I'm sure there could be some way to of working around it, but I'd have to look it up.

5508497
Actually, another idea that just occurred to me: the mark itself could actually be painted on some sort of physical disc, made of stone or metal or wood or something, which is just held in place on the pony (or gryphon, dragon, etc...) by magic. Not sure if I like that or not yet, but it could be an interesting way to do it.

--Sweetie Belle

5508497
You know, I do kinda like that. Then they aren't marks, they are emblems. You could have an emblem showing that you are the head of the house of Greymane, passed on from generation to generation, and you might have emblems of some of your prominent ancestors displayed on your wall.

Calling it a mark was bugging me, because that did feel a little too Hasbro.

--Sweetie Belle

5508512 You mean in similar fashion of military personnel having ranks and company positions placed on their uniforms?

5508524 Actually an emblem would do much better than anything else.

5508526

That's about it! I'm sure there'd be military ones, too. The thing is that ponies don't always wear clothes, and they always want the emblem showing, so they wear the discs, and than make sure it's on any clothing they wear that covers it. This'd make it easy to have multiples, too, and I could see plenty of times you'd want to do that. (One for your house, one for your trade, one for being an officer, one personal emblem that's unique to you... Some of those would be combined, though, I'm sure.)

5508538

Thanks. I've been trying to think of a better term in the back of my mind for a while. I think this one works, though we'll see what Gear thinks.

--Sweetie Belle

5508557 In all honesty I believe that an emblem would go best as like a pendent of some kind. That way it can be worn however the individual wants it to be. As a button to their coat pocket, a cuff link, a necklace, things like that. It would also allow for it to be easily interchangeable based on times of day, employment, or just simply have the ability to enter lock.

Example I can give goes back to the native american symbols that were once used.
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-symbols/symbols-and-meanings.htm

5508313 I like that. I really like that.

5508483 if lion fairs is Disney, we can't touch it. They're worse than Hasbro about their stuff.

5508610
I think I prefer the emblem discs I was talking about later anyways here:
5508512
and here:
5508524

5508587
A pendant is a possibility, but I like the idea of having them permanently stuck on. It's a little more permanent if you can't just change clothes and no longer be showing your house loyalty. If they couldn't be removed easily, you could have things like having your house emblem being solid black due to having been disowned and such, too.

I was also figuring if they were stuck on, it'd be in a place where you definitely could see it. If someone's house was on their cuff link, you might have to look pretty hard to see what the symbol was if they were standing on all fours.

--Sweetie Belle

5508597 I'm glad that you do.

5508638 That's why I suggested going with them being anthropomorphic in the other blog. Also a house could be identified fairly easily by color, pattern, and design. So the emblem would be towards the individual, not a house or loyalty to a group.

5508652
I'll admit, one reason I was leaning towards multiple emblems is that it differentiates things a little more from cutie marks, which you can only have one of.

I do like the idea of having a few categories of them. I'm figuring one[1] family one because families important, but it'd depend on the society, really. You could do color and pattern, but it seems a little easier to look at an apple and say that's the apple family then to look at a green background with red and white stripes and try to remember which family it is.

Besides that, I was originally thinking one was profession, but I don't like the idea of having to change that one a dozen times if you are a waitress one week, a cook the next, a newpaper deliverer after that, and so on. I'm thinking the next big category is more like awards or honors. You have a hammer and sickle emblem because you apprenticed for three years as a blacksmith and passed with honors, even if you currently are selling bagels. You could have one indicating you've been knighted, one saying you are a member of a guild, one saying you are favored by the queen...

Then there's the personal badge, which is a design specific only to you, and might even be what you sign things with. Of course, that might be more of an argument for pendants, since if you could pick 'em up, you could actually use the emblem itself to make the mark.

Still thinking about it, though. It's one of these things were the idea keeps changing around the more I think about it, really...

[1] Well, possibly more. You could be a member of a sub-clan of a family, or maybe you have split loyalties between your parents families. You are a member of the Raven clan, but you are a direct linear descendant of the head of the Clover family many generations ago, and want to display your loyalty there as well, or something...

--Sweetie Belle

5508793 Well when it comes to color patterns for families you would have to look at old England, back during the time of knights. The coat of arms didn't just have a symbol as two or more families of knights could share a lion or bear, but the color pattern helped to distinguish who was who as well. Lion with a yellow diamond and red triangles, must be the bastard clan.
Lion with green 'x' and red dots, must be the interlopers.
The list goes on.

5508814
5508793
5508453

I'm hearing a lot of great ideas, but the ones that really stick out our these.

Make them tattoos that are visable on the fur. Make a cerimony out of it, the symbols mean family relations, honors won, status, and possibly profession.

I like all these ideas, and I don't think that there's be a problem with making the career a symbol in and of itself. I see it as this.

As a child, ponies would be fully clothed, and the only mark that's given is a family mark to so which family line they belong to. I see this being a shoulder tattoo. Then, when they get older and reached the age of 12 or 13, they get one for beginning the path to Stallion/Marehood (puberty pretty much). Once they're 16, they'd be considered a Stallion/Mare in society and receive a mark for that, and one for the quality they best represent. Bold, reckless, kindness, adventurous, that sort of thing. From there, they'd be given a time to try out different professions and once they pick one that they wish to do, then they get their apprenticeship mark. It builds from there. That would be on their chest, over their heart.

On the left shoulder, marks are unique because these are the status symbols. Are they high or ruling class, simple workers, warriors. It could also say if they're heir to the family, or if they're in alliance with another family. These are identifying marks they're proud of.

Now, back to the clothes. Once they start their path to adulthood, I could see them stripping off child clothes and the Stallions wear a sash and the Mares wear an open vest. (Pants stay, or they could be wearing kilts -I like kilts-) Reason for this is they're be special marks on their chest. These are special honors that are given, like if there's some formal tournament and they win, or if they save someone from drowning, or showed exceptional courage. These marks are not restricted by time or live events, but rather by feats that should be recognized.

Any tattoo would be a ceremony, and it's done in groups, unless it's a special tattoo, like saving someones life, or something like that.

That's what I got so far. Thoughts?

5508903 So, they all at all time, have pants, dress and/or ... on !?
I'm for that.

the rest too.

5508903
I did kinda like my permanent stick-on discs, but tattoos are doable. I'd be curious about the details of how you get a tattoo that is visible on fur. Keep in mind that fur is going to fall out, grow back, and so on, even if you are using some sort of permanent dye. That's one reason I was thinking some sort of magic on whatever you're drawing it on with.

I still like the idea that it isn't just limited to ponies, and that dragons, griffins, etc, do it as well. Of course, you could also make each one have their own variations on how they do it.

The quality mark could be a little problematic, 'cause ponies change, and they could end up with ones that they aren't really suited for any more. More than one appenticeship mark might be a possibility sometimes, too, if you completed more than one.

Guild marks are still a possibility, too, and their could be different guilds for the same professions. Sure, you've got the mark showing that you finished an apprenticeship as a musician, but do you have the emblem for the Royal Musician Guild or the Free Bards? (Likely not exactly those group names. "Free Bards" is from a series of books.)

As far as the clothes, I would just say that if they wear any clothes that cover their marks, they normally have the marks on their clothes. There are gonna be times where they'll want a lot of clothes on. If it's snowing, I don't want an open vest!

I would kinda prefer to use a term other than "mark", as it tends to bring you back to "cutie mark". That's one reason I was going with "emblem". "Badge" occurred to me, too, but that doesn't really work if it's a tattoo and not a physical object.

--Sweetie Belle

You want to avoid being sued, that's good, but you're missing what makes a thing copyrightable or trademarkable and what makes something not.

A mark on the flank of a horse? Those kind of already exist. They've existed for thousands of years, making them unenforceable as a copyright.

They are called brands.

The word 'cutie mark', that's not so common use. That belongs to Hasbro, and they will hurt you if you try to use it.

This is pretty much entirely a word thing, rather than a substance thing, in this case.

The history of tattoos - Addison Anderson

What makes tattoos permanent? - Claudia Aguirre

5508903 Sounds great to me. Though the ones on the shoulder, how would they appear? Would they simply just string across the arm as random placements, or would they be closer to a sleeve tattoo that has an intricate designs to it? Example.

5507599
5509569
5509069
5509036

What if they had a brand on their neck? Just one, and any honors they got, or won, or whatever, they could have braided into their manes and tails with ribbons that could be (hate to use this term) magically fused so they'd stay perminent?

The other idea is playing off of what David pointed out. Brands on the flanks of a horse has been a thing for thousands of years. In those times, they were probably used to identify which trader they belonged to, or ranch they grew up in. So we could still use the brand idea, with Ghost's idea of anchient symbols. It would be a coming of age thing, and it could be that they're given a potion that allows them to see through a dream what identifies them.

Example, maybe a pony could ream of a raven, so they get a symbol of a raven branded on which would mean wisdom, insight, and cautious? (I have no idea if that's what a raven means, I'm just making up an example )

That way, we're not really changing a whole lot of what doesn't need to be changed. It could be after that being branded on to their flanks, they could have a pendant or badge that they could wear on their cloths, since their flanks are covered.

No idea what it would be called, or even if we need to call it anything more than their "Sign". Think like Zodiac animal type of thing. It's your animal, and multiple people could have the same animal, but each animal has many different meanings and traits. Two ponies might have a raven, but one might have it for being cautious in nature, while the other is wise.

Thoughts on these two ideas?

5509686 The idea is great, though the raven has often represented the unforeseen path in life, or the future if you will. Meaning the person who has it would be much closer to either a spiritual, intellectual, wisdom, or a guide for all three.

5509736 I don't know my symbols. So the idea of branding a on flanks? Or necks?

5509686
I'm pretty sure Hasbro doesn't have everything involving magic and ponies copyrighted. You can mix 'em!

They did used to have ribbons in every single ponies tail, of course, but I'm pretty sure a lot of ponies have had ribbons in their tails.

One thing with brands is I'm pretty sure getting one would be painful, which is one reason they might have started with that and moved on to find substitutes, like the magical tattoos or emblems. It might even be something that the really traditional families still do, but the more modern families don't.

Not sure about signs, since having ponies asking each other what their sign is could be a little strange. I'm trying to think of other words. Aspect? Virtue? Of course, they way you describe reaming of it almost sounds like it's their spirit animal, or something like that.

I think ravens in mythology are mostly about Odin. He had two as pets that brought him information from all over the place!

--Sweetie Belle

5509818 we could have it be spiritual animals. That might be cool.

Branding would be painful, so magic tattoos? Makes them sound tribal.

And since ribbons already a thing, we could just adapt them as we see fit.

5509842 I thing spiritual animals would be more of a Buffalo thing.

5509748 Well that's what a collaboration effort is for. Someone may know something the others don't, and if no one knows it someone can do some research on it.

5510508 The American planes are home to wild horses. Native Americans rode horses. Who's to say that these ponies are not somehow descendants of those horses? Food for thought.

5510884 and that's why I created the group. By us pulling together, will make this a reality. At least that's what I'm holding onto.

5511119 And that's a great dream to have.

5511159 I think so. I mean I know that sounds silly, almost juvenile, but I want to make creating pony content a career. I want to do metalworking as a career, but I also want to be an author as well. Creating this stuff and putting it into the public domain where we can do what we want with it, that would allow me to take my dream and make it a reality. Also, because certain things would of course have to change somewhat, I would have to get into 3-D modeling. With 3-D modeling I could find out maybe had a do some basic animation. Who knows, but it all starts here. And that's why it's such a big deal to me.

5511282 Well step by step we will be there to help as best we can. And as for the 3D modeling I think this may help you a bit.

5509842
You know, I just looked, and there actually are some basic meanings behind horse tail ribbons! I saw it here.

Probably not that adaptable, but a green tail ribbon means they are inexperienced, red means you're likely to get kicked, yellow is to be careful and that they are a stallion, and white means they are for sale.

Just thought I'd share that 'cause I thought it was interesting.

--Sweetie Belle

5511393 We could sorta re-purpose some colors. Idk.

The original idea was something my mom came up with. She thought honors would be given by braiding ribbons in the mane. So it's not like it'd be a bow or anything. Maybe have them colored beads? Like different colored bead braided in mean different honors?