7111360
This might seem like an odd question, but I’m going somewhere with this:

Have you read or watched Harry Potter? And if you have: Do you remember the school bully, Draco Malfoy? If a Wizard had some non-Wizard blood, Draco would call him “mudblood” and say that he wasn't a real Wizard.

7111368
I've read some of the books here and there, as well as seen the movies multiple times.

7111406
After thinking our conversation over: You sound a lot like Draco Malfoy!

You're not being a bully, the way he was. But you are saying that because you're a mut, a mudblood: You don't really have a heritage. And you say the same about America. You say that because America's had immigrants, because she's not pure: She's a nation of mudbloods, without a heritage.

7111423
I don't think that's the same thing that I was saying; I'm saying that because America's heritage is built on a blend of so many vastly different cultures that it cannot really be said to have one (without mentioning another, and then another, and so on). It's culture is mixed and can't be described without acknowledging it's essentially an "anything goes" heritage where nearly everyone has added something.

7111426
I think you exaggerate how much of a blend America is. We're speaking in English, after all. We're speaking the language of the pioneers from Britain, who colonized America.

You're mostly of German blood. Don't take this the wrong way, but can you even speak German? If you can't: That shows just how much of an influence those British pioneers were.

7111480
I know a couple swear words and food names. And yes, languages is a big influence, but it's not the only factor impacting the country (after all, it's the official language, not the only one spoken in other subcultures). I don't think it's possible to exaggerate how mixed America is, though. It's not to say the original colonists had no influence on the country - of course they did, they were the founding generation of the States - but you can't really mention one group's influence in shaping America without mentioning another due to the vast interconnected elements to the culture.

7111489
Yes, in English isn't the only language spoken in other subcultures. Other subcultures speak foreign languages. The Chinese subculture in America, for example, speaks Chinese.

That's no surprise, Chinese people in Uganda also speak Chinese. So do Chinese people in China. And American people in China speak English. Chinese people speak Chinese, and American people speak English, wherever in the world they live.

But I'm not talking about other subcultures. I'm not talking about Chinese people, weather they live in China, Uganda, or America. I'm talking about American people. And I don't accept a Chinese person as American, simply because he lives in America. For the same reason the Chinese don't accept an American person as Chinese, simply because he lives in China.

7108785

“What is the link in your view between faith and blood?”

I think all else being equal: You should follow the Gods and traditions of their own people. Jews should worship the God of Israel, Greeks should worship the Greek Gods, etc.

It's worth nothing: I said “people”, not “blood”. It is possible (though uncommon) to be a member of a people, who you have no blood relation to.

“Do you honor the Gods of your blood?”

That's something I really need to work on!

“What is your obligation, you feel, to your people?”

That's quite a question! Here I'll just say: I think I have a duty to my people, and to humanity as a whole.

“What of the stranger? Should he be welcomed or shunned and if welcomed, what are the conditions of that welcome?”

My people, the Americans, should be a warning not to be too welcoming of immigrants.

The American people were created when Brits left the British Isles, settled the New World, and became the American people. We were not a nation of immigrants. We were a nation of pioneers, of colonists. English-speaking colonists from Britain.

But in the 19th and early 20th centuries: We got a massive wave of immigrants from Europe. And the Europeans didn't much like our heritage. They could have become Americans, and accepted our heritage. Some did, but too many didn't. Those who didn't, and their descendants, decided that America would be “a nation of immigrants”. That America would be a land of Italian-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, etc. Not a land of Americans.

President T. Roosevelt warned us about this, in his “No Room in This Country for Hyphenated-Americans" speech. He warned us that if we allowed all these immigrants to come here, and be Italian or Asian instead of American: America would be ruined. He said:

"The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.”

His warning is coming true, just look at identity politics in modern America!

“Do you honor your ancestors?”

I suppose I don't honor my ancestors, per sy.

I'll honor Thomas Jefferson, for example. I don't know if he was my ancestor, per sy. But we're both American, and in that way, we are kin. But I don't even know the name of my great grandfather. Maybe I should, I don't know. But I don't.

7108785
What do you think of these points I made about blood? Or rather, about your people being more important than your blood?

"Interesting. But here's my advice: Read President T. Roosevelt's “No Room in This Country for Hyphenated-Americans" speech. And read this post I made in another thread. Then ask yourself if you're an American.

If the answer to that question is “yes”: Don't fret about your non-American blood. Don't fret, even if you have no American blood. Just be American. Be true to America. And honor your American heritage."

"I think all else being equal: You should follow the Gods and traditions of their own people. Jews should worship the God of Israel, Greeks should worship the Greek Gods, etc.

It's worth nothing: I said “people”, not “blood”. It is possible (though uncommon) to be a member of a people, who you have no blood relation to."

7151949
Some interesting points, yes.

7154301
Of course, I am bissed. I'm an American, who hates what the Hyphenated-Americans have done to my country. The way they tear my country apart with identity politics, and all. That's left me with a real distaste for loyalty to your blood.

7154309
Against my better judgement, I'm gonna ask:

Considering your stance on putting your nationality first and only referring to your ancestor's migration in historical context instead of part of your identity: do your ethics actually permit you to have a religion?

As far as I know, all faiths require you to hold your allegience to their concept of Divinity as more important than the concept of patriotism; making the idea of equal fealty to religion and patriotism impossible.

Please don't read this as an attack. I accept that this might certainly look like one but this is just a curiosity and that I am by no means entitled to an answer.

7154523
I suppose one's duty to the Gods is more important than one's duty to his people. Though I doubt most folks who are disloyal to their people, are loyal to the Gods. What does this have to do with my opposing Hyphenated-Americanism?

7154628

Though I doubt most folks who are disloyal to their people, are loyal to the Gods.

If the laws of your faith contradict the laws of your nation: you have to, as they say: take a side. If your duty to your faith trumps your duty to your nation: then you will inevitably be on the wrong side of your nation's laws in one way or another.
Is that not a form of disloyalty?
The only way to appease both your church and country is if you live in a Theocratic nation and are part of the state religion.

What does this have to do with my opposing Hyphenated-Americanism?

Your stance that Americans have a duty to hold their status as Americian over their ancestral roots/tribal identity suggests to me a position that being American must also take precedence over one's religion, since religion is basically another form of tribalism outside of national identity.
Am I mistaken? I do apologize if I misunderstood you somehow.
Admittedly, I'm seeing more and more people of faith argue tooth, nail, and claw that they are proud patriots but are visibly more invested in the strengthening of their faith (to the point of supremecy) while claiming their Divinity has authority over the country.

7154656
I feel that you're splitting hairs here. And that you're confusing obeying the law, with loyalty to your country.

Here's an extreme example: If the government legally required me to murder babies, then it would be my duty to break the law. Breaking the law there would be loyalty, not disloyalty, to Gods and country. Or for a mild example: Take jaywalking. I'd hardly call someone disloyal to his country, just because he jaywalks.

I suppose I am more tolerant of Americans having religious identities, then I am of them having non-American ethnic identities. But if they use their religious identities as an excuse to tear my country apart with identity politics, then they are going too far! And they are traitors, at least to their country. I'd also have to seriously question their loyalty to the Gods, and to morality.

7154678
TBF, having an indentity of one's original culture can be good too, as it helps show more of the world to America, and vice versa

7154698
One's original culture?

7154678

And that you're confusing obeying the law, with loyalty to your country.

That's fair. I'll certainly agree that the violation of certain laws add up to treason and others do not cross that line.
Speaking honestly: I'm glad you went in a more extreme direction to get a point across, but if the goverment told you that you had a legal obligation to kill babies and you refused to do so: you broke the law. You broke a grossly unethical law and I'd also break that law, but its still breaking the law. You chose loyalty to your morals over loyalty to the government. If your choice was based on your faith and that you acted by the direction of your religious oder; then you chose to obey your concept of Divinity instead of the country you live in.
So in your example, if your choice was decided by faith: then your faith was incompatable with the law, which is a very messy situation to be in.

Or for a mild example: Take jaywalking. I'd hardly call someone disloyal to his country, just because he jaywalks.

Again, I'll certainly agree that not all laws when broken add up to comitting treason. Jaywalking is much different than say hiding thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of assets to avoid paying taxes, which means less money raised for things like the military.

But if they use their religious identities as an excuse to tear my country apart with identity politics, then they are going too far! And they are traitors. at least to their country

I agree completely. It's gotten ridiculous over the past few years.

I do apologize if my responces are scattered, I'm fighting the flu

7154766
Interesting. But I'm curious: How would you answer the questions Royal Bard asked, in the original post?

7154700
Like, if one is an immigrant, the culture they had before they moved to X or Y nation

7154828
Wow...I thought I did awhile ago when it first came up

To simplify: a religion with borders to me seems more like a cult just a lot more exclusive. I have no issues with people converting in or out of a faith,

One might be culturally inclined to the faith that their family had, whether distant or recent; but religion is not something you inherit.

7154921

Like, if one is an immigrant, the culture they had before they moved to X or Y nation

Well, I'm not an immigrant. I probably have more foreign blood then most Americans, but can't authenticity claim to be Italian. Blood aside: The only thing Italian about me is that I eat pizza.

7154938
I imagine if you moved abroad you would still keep some of your cultural traditions and identity, though.

7154958
Say i joined the military, and was stationed in Japan. I'd obviously keep my American identity, and all. But I wouldn't become Japanese, just an American living in Japan.