I recently had a spirited discussion with the Christians regarding the subject of salvation. Now, near as I've ever been able to make sense of Christianity, salvation for Christians means salvation from spiritual death (separation from God) via the incarnation, death and Resurrection of the God-man Jesus Christ.

Do Pagans have any concepts similar to this? As an Eclectic Neopagan, I would say yes, but not quite. I don't think one can be separated from the Divine. Nature is an incarnation of the Divine and we are the children of the Divine. Salvation is a process we are all undergoing. It is when the spark of Divinity within us all becomes the roaring flame of Godhood. Since we all come forth from the Divine, we shall all return to the Divine Source. I do wonder if Hell mentioned in so many faiths is actually the flames of Divinity "burning away" mortal imperfections.

What do you think about this? Is salvation part of your belief system?

I'm not the best man to ask. But there is the idea of good afterlives, and bad afterlives. Christianity/Abrahamism has no monopoly on that.

Actuality, you asked “Is salvation part of your belief system?”. I’d like to avoid “forming a belief system”. Not that it's completely avoidable, all intelligent thinking people have opinions. But I feel like too make people just make up a religion for themselves, and decide what’s “true for them”. That’s not something I want to do! I think that would be putting myself on the level of the Gods.

7078567
An open mind is a useful thing.

7078559

If salvation is reserved for the mortal souls who have earned the Divine Spirit's love, and if damnation is the opposite of salvation; then damnation is for the mortal souls who the Divine Spirit hates enough to not take back.
In order for salvation to have meaning, then damnation serves a necessary purpose: at the very least be the opposite of salvation.

That would have to mean that evil is necessary in the grand scheme of things.
I personally do not accept this.

7078575
What is the origin of evil according to your belief system?

7078559

A major aspect of salvation you missed is that Hell is the default in Christianity. The reason it's called salvation is because in most forms of Christianity, humans are seen as deserving torment (or seperation from God or whoever you'd like to sugar coat it) by mere virtue of our existence. The slightest mistake or flaw deserves infinite, eternal punishment in the eyes of God and to be spared from this is to be rescued (hence why it's called salvation).

If you have an alternate religion with a good and bad place you can go to, it's not really salvation unless you assume everyone deserves the bad place.

As for the torment of Hell being separation from God/'the divine'... I've always seen that one as impossible. God is omnipresent so he should be in Hell too. If he's not in Hell (or anywhere) then he's not omnipresent. You can't truly be separated from an omnipresent force or God. I don't think any God or divine forces exist, but if there is some divine force that is all thing, then the same logic would apply. The only way to be separated from all that is is to stop existing.

If you deconstruct the 'separation from God' line they normally give you, what they actually mean is that God takes away all of your ability to feel happiness, love, etc and you experience nothing but pain and sorrow for all eternity. Basically the same thing as torture IMHO, but I think deep down a lot of Christians don't like the idea of their God torturing people eternally and never forgiving them so they phrase it in nicer sounding ways like that.

As for hell merely burning away your sins, there are a lot of other religions where the punishments you get are less sever. Sihks believe you reincarnate endlessly until you do earn heaven. Mormons think hell is temporary and that the holy spirit is there to comfort you. JW's believe those who don't get salvation are merely anhilated. Universalists believe no one goes to hell because Jesus' sacrifice was enough.

I personally don't see any reason to believe in any afterlife at all, let alone a specific afterlife. But I think if a god was as compassionate and understanding as even a somewhat wise and kind human they wouldn't have eternal punishments waiting for us. You wouldn't need saving from them. A being that's super-human in kindness and wisdom would, I imagine, would be someone you'd need saving from even less.

7078952
I was raised Christian and I'm pretty sure I only understand about twenty percent of it.

7078962

That's still probably better than most Chrisitans.

I imagine most people just go along with whatever everyone around them believes without ever really questioning or understand it.

7078580

This is just my perspective:

Evil is a mortal concept. It's a term we apply to people or actions that are so different than what we consider normal, that they are practically alien to us.

I'm not saying that the concept of evil is wholly subjective, but I will say that a Divine Spirit who understands and contextualizes the concept of evil is flawed.

7079153
Interesting.