Seriously, can we? I mean, they are on the same level of idiocy as Feminazis.

If that happens than I am out of here, vaccines are something that should be a personal choice just like any other medical procedure and anything less than that is a violation of basic constitutional and human rights. No other medication is forcibly given to people are given near complete and total immunity from liability so I don't see why vaccines should be any different.

4361925

vaccines are something that should be a personal choice just like any other medical procedure

The problem with this, however, is that vaccines deal with reducing the incidence of disease. For people with weak or compromised immune systems, even a vaccine can be a risky venture. Fortunately, their health is less at risk if the remaining people with normal or strong immune systems still receive vaccinations.

Honestly, it's quite difficult to treat vaccines as a "choice", because you cannot "choose" to catch a disease and become ill. Pathogens are not concepts, ideas, or opinions restricted to mere thought; they are physical, real, and can kill you under the right circumstances. Refusing a vaccination is allowing people to put innumerable individuals with weak/compromised immune systems at risk; a rather depressing outcome, really.

4361925 so some one with out the vaccine gets a disease lets say the Black Death he gives it to some on with a weaker vaccine than that guy gives it to a guy with the vaccine. If this could not happen than i would be for peoples choice but it does. It's the same way with Anti Biotics and pesticides if we don't keep it down it would grow and harm more people. So yes people need there shots for the good of the Group.

4362043 Isn't this basically what I already said?

4362013

4362043

If you treat people like they are morons incapable of making even a basic decision than it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And what makes bureacrats who are in the back pocket big phama more qualified to make this personal decision? They are not infallible gods, they are people like us yet the people have turned the state into a twisted statist cult.

4362055 I think I was typing my response when you type yours I'm on a iPhone so it could idk at this time I have not read yours yet

What 13 min ago why did I not see that sorry

4362058 What country do you live in, first of all? So I can follow up to that "big pharma" statement you just made.

4362058 what did I just read.
How is it a cult.
Why are you against helping people not die
And due to medicine and this "cult" you speak of it has improved human life and extended the life expectancy
Why is it bad having some freedoms taken away for the better of all

4362085 No kidding. I hardly think that making annual flu shots a mandatory act would qualify as "cult-like", or "evil"...

4362091 Like if people died instantly after getting the flu shots taken then we would see that happening right. But we don't. in fact we see the The opposite of that. Something that I cannot wrap my head around is why is helping people bad in some peoples eyes?

4362097 I think his point was to keep those shots as a "choice", and that advocating for more people to take them is apparently "unjust".

It's quite the opposite, actually. Less vaccination in people who can handle it means that weaker people are getting infected more often. Choice or not, regular vaccination shots for illnesses like the flu should be something to encourage. It's not like an opinion, because pathogens physically exist.

4362136 ya but there are still people out there that think that way. Like how parents get Faith healers because they don't trust the "cult" of medicine and Biology

4361890

Seriously, can we? I mean, they are on the same level of idiocy as Feminazis

This is how Occupy Wall Street died.

How is the ideal of #NotYourShield relevant in any way whatsoever to anti-vaccination?

4361890 SJWs and feminist extremists are bigots that justify thier bigotry by claiming that the group(s) they hate are bigoted and oppressive simply by the virtue of existing. Anti-Vaxxers refuse to accept, or allow thier children to receive, a vaccination.

yeah... they don't go together.

4362058 Problem is most people are morons incapable of making a basic decision. just look at how long politics work. We put farmers and peace advocates in place and we got a simple world but they have to deal with 'paper work' and 'protestors' and listening to civilians.

4362877 I know, the only relation they have, is they are some of the stupidest people on earth. So yeah...

The problem with trying to force everyone to do the thing that you want them to do is that one, you'll be resisted out of principle, and two, you force people to pick a side just based on their own personal actions, because those that do are "right" and those that "don't" are wrong. That's foolishness. You don't have to crucify anyone. Either give them the choice and let them decide what to do with it or you take away their choice and make it mandatory.

If you want to control everyone's actions for the greater good, there's no reason why it has to stop at vaccinations. Conquer every major territory in the world then enslave all of humanity and force them all to work towards a single goal for the greater good.

If you don't, then you agree to let them choose for themselves regardless of what their choice is.

4363077

Problem is most people are morons incapable of making a basic decision.

I don't know why people tend to say things like this.

Most people are perfectly capable of making a good decision once they have all the information they need. Problem in most cases is that they don't continually seek more information than what they have. Perhaps because they don't know to, or maybe they think they have enough information to make their decision. There's also that people are different. They have different circumstances, different goals, different sets of knowledge and abilities, different pressures, and different focuses.

I'm under the belief that the average person is smart as an individual, but generally stupid as a group. Handling ourselves is something we do all our lives, so we're familiar with that, but operating in a group isn't something we're all extremely familiar with.

If people are as stupid as you say and a lack of stupidity is what gives them the right to make a choice, then they shouldn't be able to make any other choice, including what to eat and when to eat it, if they can't prove they're not stupid. If you understood stupidity for certain though, you would not want the world to be this way.

4363933

If you want to control everyone's actions for the greater good, there's no reason why it has to stop at vaccinations.

Like I've been saying over and OVER; vaccinations deal with something that physically exists. Nearly every other disagreement and conflict that occurred for "the greater good" was driven by an idea or opinion that came from a thought.

But a disease is NOT a thought. Yet, despite overwhelming evidence and physical PROOF that pathogens exist, there are people who would endanger others by adamantly refusing vaccination. That's like refusing to get your dog vaccinated for rabies, and justifying it by saying "Oh, he'll never get bitten".

Bloody hell...

4363933 you compare vaccinations to slavery Studies have been made that to slavery lowers morale in all how are involved. While studies and vaccinations have extended and improved human life expectancy

These two things are not the same.

Choices have consequences. Not getting vaccinated gives you a risk of developing that disease thought dead and letting it evolve into something that can affect vaccinated people for that disease. Killing more than it is worth someone to not have a vaccination

4361890
I think anybody can say anything here that's reasonable and not insanely dickish. I don't think we really need to put too much emphasis against anti-vaxxers, since they aren't entirely related to the main subject, but you can still freely state that stuff if you want to!

For my own personal opinion, I think we should draw a line between people who stupidly believe that vaccines cause Autism and people who simply feel that we give babies vaccines too frequently for their little bodies to handle it; I'm with the latter, actually, but as for the former, I can guaran-damn-tee that vaccines don't cause Autism. I personally think we need vaccines, but we have to be careful, as medicinal practices have a long history of giving people too much of a good thing, and we have to draw a line between serious anti-vaxxers and people who just want to be a little less reckless with vaccines. But that's my personal opinion, and I neither expect nor want every single person to conform to it.

4364086
4364116

you compare vaccinations to slavery

I don't think that's what I did at all.

I'll make this point clear: I don't care about this specific issue much at all.

I'm not arguing that there's little or no merit to vaccinations. Let's say for the sake of argument that vaccinations are 100% harmless and 100% effective. What I'm arguing that trying to control someone's actions when they have a choice is pointless. If you see a problem with something in the world, your go-to shouldn't be "Which people are being problematic?", it should be "What's the problem?". If you don't like the other choice, then you're most likely in favor of making the one you support mandatory, and if that's the case then as I said before, there's really no point in drawing the line at vaccinations. There's lots of things we could do to make the world better.

4364264 ...You still don't get it.

Forget it, I'm done here. And I'm done with this group.

4364264 what the problem in your hypothetical why would someone deny treatment for an illness that could kill them and evolve and kill the people that did choose the treatment that would save them

If my dog had rabies and I refused to get vaccinated or put down and it bites someone else's dog that's killing his or her dog. Is it my fault for not vaccinating the dogs when there was a cure or was it the other person's fault that they had their dogs vaccinated and still got a mutation of the disease through my dog.

4364264

vaccinations. Conquer every major territory in the world then enslave all of humanity and force them all to work towards a single goal for the greater good.

. Sounds like comparing vaccines to slavery to me

4364135 Wow... you're awesome man!

4361925
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4364135
Well... this turned into a shitstorm... I was being sincere when I asked that question, but now I'm just happy with everyone's opinion on the matter. I just want to clear up something here. I HATE Anti-vaxxers. In my opinion they are IDIOTS. I think this because they are not only endangering themselves, but they are also endangering their children, and other children that cannot get vaccines because they are immunocompromised. However, they are normally protected due to Herd Immunity, which is being compromised because of these idiots. If you have any questions on my opinion, simply ask. This has been a teen's hormone induced rant, thank you for listening.

4364363 I thought the first guy was a troll not you btw

4364300
I think you're overreacting to me..

4364308
You could ask why anyone does anything, but it's not anyone's position to speculate as to why they made the choice they did. The only answer you really need is "they wanted to". Someone else's choice might not make any sense to you, but it makes sense to them. For example, there are people who will refuse medical treatment, even after being seriously injured, regardless of whether or not their healthcare is free. I don't understand that, but obviously they see some merit to doing that because many of these types will become violent and try to escape in order to stop any kind of treatment from taking place.

vaccinations. Conquer every major territory in the world then enslave all of humanity and force them all to work towards a single goal for the greater good.

. Sounds like comparing vaccines to slavery to me

You misunderstand. No comparison is being made. For a comparison to be made, vaccinations would have to already be mandatory despite people who want to refuse them. As far as America goes, I don't think that's the case.

What I'm doing is escalating from one point to the next. If the thought one has is to make vaccinations mandatory, then why not make a whole host of other things mandatory?

4364363
Eh. I don't think this is a shitstorm? I think it's just people talking.

One question I have for you is this: what about people who visit the country or enter illegally, wouldn't they also be contributing to this problem? In order to create the conditions that are most beneficial for vaccines, we'd have to make sure that everyone here is vaccinated to our specifications. We can't do that.

Okay guys, be nice and respectful, or I may lock this thread. We can say whatever we want that's reasonable and not dickish, and so far most of you guys are doing okay, I can see that virtually nobody is trying to be mean, and none even seem that bad to me, but try to remember how you may come across to others.

This thread amuses me.

4364414 yes I do think he was over reacting to you

I'm fine with them having a choice to not have vaccinations I just want them to have a reasonable excuse and to have them moved away from vaccinate people not than they didn't side with us but to not have a evolution in the disease killing more people

4364463
Cool. That out of the way, I'd like to ask you the same question I asked the OP.

What about people who visit the country or enter illegally, wouldn't they also be contributing to this problem? In order to create the conditions that are most beneficial for vaccines, we'd have to make sure that everyone here is vaccinated to our specifications. We can't do that.

4364420 Yes you are correct, however, even with these conditions, people visiting the country illegally, we have always had people doing this, so it's impossible to make the conditions perfect for Herd Immunity to work in. However, what we have not always had, was idiots who don't vaccinate their kids. Herd Immunity has always been at it's best that we can give it, at least, after vaccines were introduced into the U.S. Then these idiots came about, and now the measles, the GOD DAMN MEASLES are back in business, in one of the most popular places in the U.S., Disneyland in California. (At least I think it is one of the most popular, all I know is it's fun to go there) Back to your question, Illegal Immigrants are less likely to be vaccinated than people born in the U.S. However, when people have easy access to things that could save lives and they choose not to, I think of this

Sound like a good idea?
This has been yet again, a hormone induced rant by a teen.

4364391 Thanks!

4364499 there always be mutations it's just who more susceptible to them so. I would say it would be stupid if you would come across the border to a disease infested land without the proper safety precautions and if some one in a vac Community gets let's say the Black Death I'm sore that people will notice then look up his medical record.

4364511 <--- and what he said

4364530 Please enlighten me.

4364533 what I agree with you

4364536 Oh... like I said, I'm just a hormone induced teen.

4361890
This isn't an anti-feminazi group, skrublord.
get rekt

4364594 I don't know, maybe... but I don't know...

4364603
No, really.
Read the prompt.
Then go take your anti stuff back to tumblr.

4364611 But I don't have a Tumblr...