Took me a while to get the next section done. I needed to make sure I could get myself in the right frame of mind to write it. It wasn't easy. And I didn't really know how it would go when I started. But it's ready for review now.

Same link as before.

I really struggled to hold back on being overly-descriptive. It's a habit I'm trying to break, but there's a balance because I don't want the prose to be too difficult to understand. The new section is pretty concise. It says what it needs to say and tries to not tell the reader much which they already know. And yet, it also tries to be an emotional sledgehammer, delivering an accurate blow to the reader, depicting exactly what Fluttershy went through. There's a couple paragraphs of crying dialogue, which is always something difficult to gauge. Hopefully, I didn't overdo it. Remember, Fluttershy is an emotional wreck here. I try to keep it moving, though, pushing for a resolution without dragging on and on like it might have.

Changeling headcanon is expanded upon quite a bit here, as we find out that changelings can essentially mind rape someone in order to feed. It's devastating for the victim, leaving them as a shell of a person. I tried to find a good way to describe this using "show, don't tell" principles. A real challenge, to be sure! Let me know what you think.

5117966 Well it's back into the drawing board! On to Part Two of this chapter!

So back where I left off, so now Dinky is going to be a part of the core team? Whether permanent or temporary, I'm on board with this decision! Now I wonder what kind of conversation are those two princesses are having about. Probably something involving Nyx's current state with the wild alicorn status. Also, hug out with Twilight and Nyx! Aw, nothing's better than seeing those two settling down the hatchet! So Storm Shadow wants Nyx's help calibrating equipment? I don't know why but there should more than just that...

Now we get to the nitty gritty featuring Fluttershy and Flitter! As you noted, I can see the effects of it being very much present. Flitter catches on to her being afraid of her but doesn't know why. the big reveal comes and now she understands why they were getting a bit distant from one another. Honestly, the idea of someone mind raping me and taking the one thing that makes me smile would definitely echo in my thoughts for a long time. I'd be suffering from a case of PTSD (If that is PTSD though...) for a long time. So it's good to see them settling down the struggle, and apparently, Flitter put a tiny seed of joy inside? I'm not so sure on how to respond to that except Aaawww!

I swear though I think this chapter was supposedly to settle down the hatchet between those pairs... you know?

5117966
So, you finally got into this, huh? Good on ya.

Twilight and Nyx

You've done a pretty good job on Twilight's dialogue. Nyx is kind of just standing there not and not responding, and Twi launches into her Mom Chat a little too quickly, but that part was otherwise pretty good.

“What? Oh, it’s—”

“I need to say this, Nyx. Ever since I first found you, I’ve felt like I needed to protect you in one way or another. You were this precious little filly who would never have hurt anypony, but the world already hated you. That one night after the school play when you found out who you really were… You felt like you had no family, and so I became your mother. I knew then that I actually had a daughter of my own. It didn’t matter that you were Nightmare Moon. When I held you tightly to my chest, and felt your little heart racing, I swore to myself that I’d never let anything happen to you. It didn’t take long before I realized how hard that would be. But I never stopped trying—even when you grew up.”

I think a better justification is needed for Twilight to suddenly pour her heart out like this. Nothing major, just Nyx saying something a bit closer to home than 'What'?'

She wondered how much her own protective instincts were shaped by her mother’s.

Not sure about the characterisation implied with this line. It also lacks subtlety.

Nyx looked into her mother’s eyes. She hadn’t often considered how Twilight must have felt all those years ago, fighting hard just to give Nyx a somewhat normal life.

Likewise lacking subtlety.

“Mom, he just thinks I can be a great fighter someday.”

Eh, I'm a little unsure about this line.

Rumble shrugged and popped a final pastry into his mouth

No mention of any foodstuffs other than Flitter's nectar stick before or after this.

Flitter and Fluttershy

Well done. You nailed the right amount of subtlety, information and drama. There are a few unresolved bits to do with the mechanics of changeling interaction that could do with being cleared up, though.

She accidentally took on Fluttershy’s appearance for about a second. Fluttershy startled and let out a meep.

This needs more detail.

I can smell it all over you.

Sensed or felt would probably be more appropriate.

Things were starting to become clear. But why?

Could do with rewording.

Then the world… everything became a l-living nightmare.

Not immediately obvious what this means, and it doesn't seem to follow from the rest of Fluttershy's dialogue. Nightmares =/= emotions, or the lack of them.

To eat the very seed of joy from somepony else was a capital offence.

If you include phrases like that, you need to explain what they mean. I'd recommend using less precise language instead.

somepony else

Changelings are not ponies.

It was risky. Not only might it trigger abject panic in the pegasus, but Flitter almost never revealed herself if it meant she might have to endure more rejection.

This is what Flitter assumes, not what is actually the case. That difference could do with being made more clear in-text.

It wouldn’t be much—just a tiny seed of joy planted in her heart. But it would grow with time.

Have you talked about the mechanics of changeling feeding and the significance of emotions somewhere? This is implying some sort of ruleset that I'm unaware of. I'm also a little unsure about Fluttershy being forcefully fed on and then no-one doing anything about the long-term effects of that, if those long-term effects are an in-universe function of changeling feeding.
This also implies that Flitter can alter the emotions of other beings. Is that the case?

5119522

Changelings are not ponies.

Chrysalis herself used the word "everypony" in the show. ... or do I sense an unintentional racist undertone from your correction?
...
I'll back off now.

Edit: Should I invent the word "speciest" then? 5120200

5119672
She does? Huh. Not that I don't believe you, but I can't recall offhand when that was. Could you enlighten me?

or do I sense an unintentional racist undertone from your correction?

Changelings are not ponies, they're shapeshifting, quadrupedal insectoid creatures, a separate species. That doesn't make them any less people. The thing I was correcting was a changeling referring to other changelings, so it didn't make sense for them to be using pony terminology.
If anything, the term 'everypony' is the one with racist connotations, given that it excludes any non-ponies. In a world with numerous sapient species, that's more than a little odd.

I'll back off now.

Nuuuu! Come back!

5117966
Well, this a nice end to the chapter
Twilight finally realises that her little filly is all grown up and she needs to let go so Nyx can move forward. It's a hard moment, for any parent, especially with the trouble Nyx seems to get embroiled in on a regular basis.

I'd agree with Questionable that a bit more needs to be added at the start to prompt Twilights reaction. I think once you've seeded a few moments of "over-protective Twi" into the earlier chapters that this would be a perfect ending for Twilight.

So the truth about Flttershy finally comes out. I must say, you handled this very delicate issue perfectly. It would have been so easy to throw in gruesome detail or overham the drama, but you struck the right balance here, so good job!

The idea of a changeling being able to implant emotions into a subject is fascinating in its ramifications. It opens a whole new area that changelings abilities could be used for in the positive. I assume that due to the taboo nature that removing emotions is a secret and not widely known outside of changeling society?

One thing I think might add to the scene between them, is that Flitters gift has a personal cost to her, yet she gives it to Fluttershy to right a wrong and heal a rift. Not sure what the cost would be, maybe draining Flitter or some such, but it would put more weight behind Flitters gift.

Oh, and now you've given Fluttershy the seed of joy we need to figure out what she does with it

5120096 I have a weird idea about that said seed of joy...

5120123
Oh you...

5119672

do I sense an unintentional racist undertone

I hate the word "racist". It's so misused these days.

5119017

Now I wonder what kind of conversation are those two princesses are having about. Probably something involving Nyx's current state with the wild alicorn status.

Correct, although not quite yet. Luna left the room with Celestia only for a few minutes to see her sister off, and then she went to her study and sent for Nyx where they will finish their debriefing off camera.

Luna's actual discussion with Celestia will come next. But you are correct in guessing that Nyx's transformation will be the central topic. Or more specifically, a risk assessment.

So Storm Shadow wants Nyx's help calibrating equipment? I don't know why but there should more than just that...

Eh?? Yeah there's a whole big scene coming up where they meet. Recall in chapter 9 how he mentioned to Twilight at the end there that he wants Nyx's help. So Twilight mentions it here to Nyx (like she said she would). And then in a couple scenes, we'll get to see how that goes. Should be lots of exposition there...

and now she understands why they were getting a bit distant from one another.

Well, it's a bit more extreme than that. Fluttershy outright avoided Flitter for three years. It's an interesting sub-arc that adds depth to the characters while giving me a great vehicle for expositing my changeling headcanon.

I swear though I think this chapter was supposedly to settle down the hatchet between those pairs... you know?

Well, that's part of it. The main purpose of the chapter is to debrief the heroes and wrap up their business in Canterlot prior to heading off again. There are three more locations they need to stop by before heading back to the bayou. These will be in chapter 12.

5120096

Well, this a nice end to the chapter

Chapter's not done yet, mate. There's still three more scenes coming.

Twilight finally realises that her little filly is all grown up and she needs to let go so Nyx can move forward. It's a hard moment, for any parent, especially with the trouble Nyx seems to get embroiled in on a regular basis.

I'd agree with Questionable that a bit more needs to be added at the start to prompt Twilights reaction. I think once you've seeded a few moments of "over-protective Twi" into the earlier chapters that this would be a perfect ending for Twilight.

Yep, I agree as well. I'm actually relieved that neither one of you faulted Twilight's dialogue as being melodramatic or focusing too much on the Past Sins references. It could have easily been accused as being hammy, talking about the night of the school play, or the moment where she considered the responsibility of raising a pony that might live forever. I probably would have forgotten both references if not for having done the audio comic project recently.

So the truth about Flttershy finally comes out. I must say, you handled this very delicate issue perfectly. It would have been so easy to throw in gruesome detail or overham the drama, but you struck the right balance here, so good job!

Thanks! I'm so glad it turned out well. I fretted about this one for a very long time. The original was written in November 2014 and onlyanorthernsong objected strongly to it. In fact, you can see the vestiges of that objection in his recent comment here, where he simply forgot that we had resolved this. Just goes to show how long it's been an issue!! But I did have the current solution in mind for a very long time. And my original version was pretty terrible because it did characterize Fluttershy horribly. I wanted there to be a rift that gets healed in this chapter, but the rift I designed was just terrible. It was simply Fluttershy "being scared of changelings" because of what Chrysalis did. A piss poor reason to have her fearful of Flitter specifically for three years.

But this... this fixes all of that and I'm pretty happy how it turned out.

The idea of a changeling being able to implant emotions into a subject is fascinating in its ramifications. It opens a whole new area that changelings abilities could be used for in the positive. I assume that due to the taboo nature that removing emotions is a secret and not widely known outside of changeling society?

To be honest, I actually pulled that one out of thin air as I was drafting yesterday. I was comparing how the scene was turning out to the original scene where it was Flitter who was the hurt one. I had a moment where Fluttershy embraced her and she changed into her natural form in the middle of it. So I tied in the hug as a healing process for Fluttershy in the current version but it felt a bit incomplete. So I'm thinking... why not have Flitter actually assist in Fluttershy's actual recovery in a tangible way? Just a small amount. Not an "instant fix-all" because those are cheesy and contrived. But something which would grow over time.

The idea of a changeling actually being able to affect someone's core emotions is really interesting. And if it's forbidden to do, then it would be something you'd almost never see. In this case, it makes sense for her to try and help Fluttershy recover what she lost.

And what did she lose, exactly? Well, this was a rape pretty much. The changeling actively fed on the love in her heart rather than passively feeding off whatever she was giving off at the time. From the changeling's perspective, it would be a very large and satisfying meal, but it leaves the victim devastated. Having had their love stripped away, it removes their joy and leaves fear in its place. Fluttershy already struggled with fear even though she had largely gotten over it during the pre-war years. There's a chance people may have even misunderstood Fluttershy's change in behavior as a reaction to the war.

As for "what does she do with the gift" I think I can answer that. She pours it into her compassion efforts, specifically the Megaspell healing project.

One thing I think might add to the scene between them, is that Flitters gift has a personal cost to her, yet she gives it to Fluttershy to right a wrong and heal a rift. Not sure what the cost would be, maybe draining Flitter or some such, but it would put more weight behind Flitters gift.

Agreed, although it's hard to say what that cost would be. Maybe she'll have reduced effectiveness for a couple chapters.

5119522

You've done a pretty good job on Twilight's dialogue. Nyx is kind of just standing there not and not responding, and Twi launches into her Mom Chat a little too quickly, but that part was otherwise pretty good.

I appreciate that. I was a bit worried about how well Twilight's dialogue came across.

Not sure about the characterisation implied with this line.

It occurred to me that Nyx's drive to protect ponies might come from how fiercely Twilight protected her all through Past Sins. I never drew this connection until just now. What are your thoughts on that?

Eh, I'm a little unsure about this line.

Well, Storm Shadow does want Nyx to be a great fighter someday. That's factually correct, so it's a good line to dispel Twilight's concerns while throwing the reader off the scent. Remember, Storm Shadow is essentially Ozymandias here. Nobody has any idea he's a villain, but I'm laying the groundwork so that when the readers do finally see it, the observant ones will be able to spot all the connections in hindsight.

No mention of any foodstuffs other than Flitter's nectar stick before or after this.

Luna says to help yourselves to refreshments as she is leaving. Twilight pours herself and Nyx a cup of tea. Rumble (predictably) snacks. I thought it best to not get too explicit about it, since we don't actually see what Rumble is doing between when Luna leaves and when he leaves.

Well done. You nailed the right amount of subtlety, information and drama. There are a few unresolved bits to do with the mechanics of changeling interaction that could do with being cleared up, though.

Thanks! I definitely appreciate this, as I know your standards are quite high in this regard. I also wanted this scene to pull on all the appropriate heartstrings to generate sympathy for Fluttershy in sync with Flitter's realization. When it dawns on her that Fluttershy is afraid of her, the whole tone tangibly shifts because I've been building up this whole assumption that Fluttershy is somehow upset or holding a grudge against Flitter. This is played up in the previous chapter when Choc plays the "new guy" for the exposition. And so the reader and Flitter are expecting some kind of confrontation which turns out to be this heartbreaking revelation instead.

Sensed or felt would probably be more appropriate.

I've referred to Flitter's empath sense using the metaphors smell and taste all through the story. In fact, in chapter four, I quite literally say that "A minute later, she paused, noticing a familiar feeling in her belly and delicious taste in her mouth." when she sensed Nyx & Rumble getting it on in the shower.

Not immediately obvious what this means, and it doesn't seem to follow from the rest of Fluttershy's dialogue. Nightmares =/= emotions, or the lack of them.

Hmm, there's not many ways to describe this, I'm afraid. Not that I'm aware of, anyway. "living nightmare" might be a bit overused to describe conscious horror. But I'm trying to remain concise here. I could have Fluttershy describe precisely what that felt like, but I don't want to stray off the emotive path into an over-descriptive path.

If you include phrases like that, you need to explain what they mean. I'd recommend using less precise language instead.

Have you talked about the mechanics of changeling feeding and the significance of emotions somewhere? This is implying some sort of ruleset that I'm unaware of. I'm also a little unsure about Fluttershy being forcefully fed on and then no-one doing anything about the long-term effects of that, if those long-term effects are an in-universe function of changeling feeding.

This also implies that Flitter can alter the emotions of other beings. Is that the case?

Hard to say. As I mentioned above, I came up with it on the fly. I found it intriguing to consider that perhaps a character's emotional core has these "seeds" it contains which produce normal emotional responses to things. And if the "seed of joy" is eaten, it would disrupt the emotional balance of the character until they could somehow grow it back through either years of healing or therapy or perhaps a changeling coming along and restoring it. There's no real-world basis for this. I just felt it was an interesting idea to try out.

And as for Flitter's ability to alter the emotions of others, it's really hard to say. As Duvet suggested, I think this ought to come at a personal cost to Flitter. Perhaps she has a day or so where she needs to eat extra nectar sticks because her usual mechanisms are more or less out of order for a moment. If I remember that Flitter is "out of order" for the next chapter or two, that might add some good consistency with this "gift" thing.

5120200

It's an interesting sub-arc that adds depth to the characters while giving me a great vehicle for expositing my changeling headcanon.

Considering the route taken upon this course of action, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy this a lot

Reads Duvet's side for the comments to see this specific comment...

Chapter's not done yet, mate. There's still three more scenes coming.

There's more? Wow, and here I was expecting the chapter to end here...

5120206
Heh, no. I don't think I forgot to mention that there was the scene where Celestia & Luna discuss Nyx. And most importantly, the scene with Nyx and Storm Shadow where we finally get to see these two in a lengthy discussion. And finally, the scene which is mostly written already between Razor and Storm Shadow.

Besides, each chapter needs to end on a moment of anticipation.

5120226 Oh well in that case, continue on then! Just don't jump-start the anticipation train or else we're for a collision course with consistency.,.

5120245

Just don't jump-start the anticipation train or else we're for a collision course with consistency.,.

Sometimes... I swear I just can't understand some of your statements.
I really do try, though.

5120200

As for "what does she do with the gift" I think I can answer that. She pours it into her compassion efforts, specifically the Megaspell healing project.

I considered that, but thought it too depressing to contemplate.

Interesting thing with the changelings gifts is that they could be used to treat PTSD, putting a bandaid over the emotional pain to allow the mind to recover. It really opens a lot of new possibilties headcanon wise

5120200

It occurred to me that Nyx's drive to protect ponies might come from how fiercely Twilight protected her all through Past Sins. I never drew this connection until just now. What are your thoughts on that?

That might have influenced it, but I very much doubt that's the primary reasoning there. Nyx's chronic hero complex and drive to jump in front of the bullet stems from her mistakes during Past Sins and desire to make amends. 'It's the one thing I've been able to do right'? That's the initial motivation, at least.
Your interpretation of Nyx is different from mine, as we've discussed, so I can't really gainsay what your opinion is on how that aspect of her character would develop over time in the NN 'verse. Your interpretation takes priority.

That's factually correct, so it's a good line to dispel Twilight's concerns while throwing the reader off the scent

I understand that. I'm just a little unsure about how it's phrased. 'Fighter'? Eeeeh.

I thought it best to not get too explicit about it, since we don't actually see what Rumble is doing between when Luna leaves and when he leaves.

The description of a final pastry does seem to be leading off from a previous description that isn't there, though. That's the bit I was niggling about.

Hmm, there's not many ways to describe this, I'm afraid. Not that I'm aware of, anyway. "living nightmare" might be a bit overused to describe conscious horror. But I'm trying to remain concise here.

I'd recommend using a concise, easy-to-understand metaphor to describe what it was like, rather than a generic phrase like 'living nightmare' or laboriously precise description. Something like her vision turning grey or a deep chill.

There's no real-world basis for this. I just felt it was an interesting idea to try out.

Sure. It's a reasonably solid fantasy explanation for how emotions function in a metamagical sense. You kind of need to explain it at least briefly sometime before the Flitter/Fluttershy scene, though.

5120816

That might have influenced it, but I very much doubt that's the primary reasoning there.

Yeah, I don't think that would have carried her motivation. But it may have been a contributing factor. It's not really that important, but the parallel is there. Twilight was ultra protective of Nyx for a sizeable chunk of the story. Even to the point of being willing to face off with Celestia or accept the consequences of Nightmare Moon returning to power. Irrational as hell, yes, but very protective. Motivated by love, no doubt. Whereas Nyx's heroism seems to be self-motivated.

'Fighter'? Eeeeh.

Oh. Well, that's fine. I can change that.

The description of a final pastry does seem to be leading off from a previous description that isn't there, though. That's the bit I was niggling about.

Ahh. Easy enough to fix.

explain it at least briefly sometime before the Flitter/Fluttershy scene

Ugh. Ret-cons... Such a pain in the ass. Worth it? I'm not sure.

5121354

Motivated by love, no doubt.

Yep. If that aspect of Twilight has influenced Nyx at all, it would be in how she responds when people close to her are threatened.

Ugh. Ret-cons... Such a pain in the ass. Worth it? I'm not sure.

I know it's annoying, but introducing readers to worldbuilding concepts like this one in a controlled and easily understandable manner is important. This is hardly a vitally important bit of worldbuilding, so it could simply not be included easily enough.

5120462
5121678

Chapter eleven is getting kinda long. Makes me wonder if I should find another place to split it or restructure the sections somehow.

Debriefing meeting with the sisters: 4481
Flitter/Fluttershy reconciliation: 1160
Storm Shadow / Nyx Meeting: 3043 and rising. Could be 4000-4300 by the time it's done.
Luna / Celestia Meeting: No idea. Probably about 1000.
Storm / Razor Meeting: Roughly 1000 (needs revising)

So this adds up to nearly 12,000 words!

I had previously decided to keep my chapters short if possible. Preferably something more in line with 6k words. So I'm wondering if I need to split ch11 in half again.

5150941
Splitting it in two probably wouldn't be a bad decision. I can't say with certainty until I've seen the actual text, though. *Cough, cough*
The best spot would probably be between the Flitter/Fluttershy scene and the Storm Shadow/Nyx scene.

5150941 Honestly, it's all up to you... if the events correlate to one another, it's best to keep them together then to not cause too much confusion upon the reader when they find a rather off-topic event in said chapter (mind you they're not but just saying)... I mean I have chapters that have about 10k words and at least the events are related to one another so it's best to keep it like so unless the events don't really match up well, you know what I mean?

5150941
I agree with Questionable that the Fluttershy/Flitter scene is probably the best end point if you were to split it. This chapter has a nice balance of revelation and reconciliation so ending it on a high note might be best. Rolling into Storm Shadows section might disrupt the chapters slightly upbeat tone, since his is section deals with loss, regret and conspiracy.

That said, there's nothing wrong with longer chapters. Don't feel you need to constrain yourself with limits if there's a lot going on. (Though 20k chapters are the limit of my endurance)

5151034 Tell that to the fact that I've read a 50k word chapter(s)... goodness I did not even know if I could make it through that...

5151042
Urgh, I get tired just thinking about a 50k chapter.

5151049 Tell that to a million word story or a series of stories... that is more ridiculous than a 50k word chapter... and I've read three that fit those criteria... I'm just surprised that I was able to truck through it all

5150981
5150982
5151034

Well, there are two major factors when considering the split. First is the influence in the publishing. Shorter chapters always means more exposure to the front page, which is only good for the story. But splitting a chapter must be done with care. Currently, the chapter wraps up the Canterlot stuff entirely, but splitting it will drag Canterlot on to another chapter. The second issue is in tension momentum. I've been careful to always end a chapter with something specific that is about to happen. This ensures that the reader is always interested in reading about that Next Thing. If I end on the Flitter/Fluttershy section, it drops the tension down to zero in terms of anticipating the next chapter.

I know a way I could fix this, but it may be tricky. I could put the Storm/Razor section right after the Flitter/Fluttershy section. That would definitely raise tension and keep the reader interested.

What I'm trying to balance narratively is the contrast between the Nyx/Luna meeting and the Nyx/Storm meeting. Luna is Nyx's most trusted friend, and she is opposing Nyx's transformation in chapter three. Storm wants Nyx to embrace her transformation, but I'm playing him out to be an uninformed ally rather than an antagonist. I'm also deliberately misdirecting the hell out of the reader in the Nyx/Storm meeting by using Nyx's empathy to draw attention to false reasons why Storm talks the way he does. From what I can tell, it works rather well, but I worry about the proximity with the Storm/Razor scene. The meeting with Razor might cause readers to guess that Storm is the pony who meets with him. I'm trying to avoid that, so I'll be adjusting things accordingly. The key is Storm's feelings of guilt.

I'll bring you all up to speed on all this stuff soon when I'm finished drafting Storm's meeting with Nyx. This section is complex and lengthy. They cover a lot of stuff, but I'm trying hard to make the exposition interesting and dramatic just like the debriefing meeting was. It's coming along nicely, and soon, they'll be doing the memory orb demo which is much easier to write. Then I'll post the section for review.

When I'm finished with everything allotted to chapter 11, we can all talk about the possibility of restructuring and/or splitting the chapter. But it's definitely on the table as a likely option.

Here's the current word count by chapter. You can see why I'd rather avoid a 12k chapter at this point.

5151080
Yeah, now that you mention it, the Storm/Razor meet might send up warning flags to some readers, considering Storm Shadow has just been introduced. It might be worth throwing in a red herring or two in that scene between the two, have Storm mention something completely unrelated to the Storm/Nyx meeting to misdirect the reader as to his identity.

It's a tough line to tread, too much info and it becomes a Ben Kingsley in Prince of Persia. You instantly peg him as the villain. Too little and people forget and it becomes a "who the hell is this guy? Where did he come from?"

5151080 Man I wish I could utilize a bar graph here... but then I use word so I can tell how words I use so yeah... The decision falls upon you to write below 12k, not like we're forcing you anyway

Oh and the splitting, as I've said the decision falls upon you as you are the writer, but I can share my tidbits about this. I know that you are trying to keep the chapters under 12k words and that's understandable but there are times where that said rule may or may not have to be broken to fit a lot of events that will tie each other. Trust me, I'm definitely guilty of this. There are times where I want to keep in under the ropes but so many things are being told that interconnect with the plot in mind that I may as well break it just once. There is a definite risk to doing this as people overtime will get bored over reading such a lengthy chapter but if one keeps tension strong regardless of the number of words, they will continue to read to see the end especially if the book is well liked amongst the readers that they'll care less about the amount of words and more about the story

Putting the Storm/Razor meeting after the Flitter/Fluttershy meeting? While I'm up for it, I can see some risks involved trying something drastic like that. Sure it helps with tension, but there's also the fact that it's kind of out of nowhere I believe (if memory serves me right). It would be rather jarring if there was a sudden change in atmosphere in the book and readers are left a bit off-guard by it. Helps but there are risks to trying that maneuver.

As for the eventual meeting, yeah timing and tying all of that would be indeed difficult from a certain standpoint. Not only would it be heavy on emotions but also many things that will soon be partly revealed to the audience. I say partly because you're still leaving out the bigger picture of a lot of things that come into play especially with the princesses knowing it and not the audience and ponies in the world. It would make readers almost seemingly want to know what is going to happen next and more importantly, when will it happen, because everything will have to tie down to the big event whether its the finale or not.

I hope I managed to get some incentive about all of this, if not, well I tried my best

5151080
Again, I'll reserve judgement until I actually see the chapter, although the potential issues Duvet mentioned do need to be watched for.

5151101
I think you misunderstood my intentions. I'm not drawing a hard line at 12k. I'm trying to illustrate why long chapters are something I'm trying to avoid in general.

And yes, I know it's my decision. I still appreciate hearing input though. That helps me make my decision.

However, I do agree that it may be too jarring to transition directly between Fluttershy and Razor. That's quite a contrast and you're right that it's out of nowhere. I have a better idea, I think.

5151094

Okay, how about this. I can move the Razor meeting to the next night. It's important that it happens at night, but this night is already dragging on quite a bit. Believe it or not, it's still the same day where Nyx and friends had the BBQ in Gatorton. It's been an incredibly dense four days since the start of the mission.

I've already postponed the Razor meeting a day from the original draft. I don't see how it would hurt to do it again and push it to W23D1 which is the same day our heroes return to Gatorton. In fact, it might be a great way to end the chapter called Precipice. It also puts some distance between Storm's meeting with Nyx and his meeting with Razor to throw the reader off the scent.

As for how to end chapter 11, I'm thinking of making a super short section which has our heroes leaving the debriefing meeting with Luna and Rumble/Flitter head back home without Nyx. The tension can be that Nyx is about to leave to meet with Storm. Not a lot of tension, but reader interest should be fairly high at that point. As long as this section is short, it should work well.

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Looking at the numbers, I'd say that the above-proposed split would probably work quite nicely. I can structure it with the split and if it doesn't work, it would be real easy to rearrange things. These sections are interchangeable in the timeline, so that makes restructuring more or less a matter of cut and paste.

What I can do now is focus on wrapping up chapter 11 and setting up my documents and charts to accommodate the inserted chapter twelve. Shouldn't take long.

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Both could work. It will depend on whether any red flags come up after reading the completed chapter, either way, nice thing with the Storm/Razor scene is that it works independently and can be moved to where it fits in the best

Looking forward to seeing Storm Shadow in the flesh, so to speak. Have an image to go with all the details we've been working on

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Okay, here we go. I've wrapped up Chapter Eleven (now named Turning Points).

Link Here

The way I've done this is to close off the chapter cleanly by having Rumble and Flitter fly home, leaving Nyx behind to wrap up the final thing needing to be done in Canterlot. I've taken some of the introductory material from the Storm/Nyx section and used it to wrap things up in a final brief section that now ends this chapter. It now ends with Storm opening the door as Nyx shows up to meet with him. This maintains momentum and avoids closing with the tension-killing Fluttershy section which would have been very bad to end with. The reader should be very interested in finding out what happens next!

Word count is now 6096, which is pretty much perfect for what I've been shooting for with the newer chapters. I'm pretty happy how this one turned out.

Whoops. Wrong link. Fixed.

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Well, Rumble and Flitter are sent back to Ponyville, and we get a little introduction to our antagonist. It gives the readers something to chew on as they move on to the next chapter.

I'm assuming Nyx hasn't been given the whole truth, in regards to Fluttershy and her "incident". Or at least, she got Fluttershy's consent before letting the others know what happened.

Other than that, all I'd add would be a little weariness in Flitters reply to Nyx, to hint that her gift to Fluttershy has taken a physical toll and that'll wrap things up

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Well... Uh... To be honest, I hadn't even considered that Flitter ought to be keeping that stuff private. But I suppose that makes sense. In many ways, I treat the core team as a single person with very little that is not shared between them. Nyx & Rumble have been Flitter's entire world for three years, and yes, there would probably be things she hasn't shared with them. But they were there through the entire drama of Fluttershy's rejection of her. They would definitely want to hear the truth on the matter. How much detail she'd give them is the question, I suppose. She'd have to reveal the alternate feeding method changelings have, which might be highly embarrassing.

As for being somewhat drained from the experience, that's a good point. I'm still not quite sure how to depict that. I was thinking that having her natural abilities somewhat muted for a couple days might be the best way to do it. The final moments here would not be immediately after the previous scene, so that's worth noting. Flitter did go straight to Luna's study after Fluttershy left. But that meeting would have been incredibly boring and repetitive, so it was all off camera.

Chapter 12 can now pick up immediately where I've left off. Fortunately, I've got 2900 words already drafted, getting us past the most difficult part of the chapter. It's pretty interesting how this is all playing out. I'm generating a lot of reader sympathy for Storm, which will hopefully throw them off the scent. Making him pro-Nyx I believe was a seriously good move.

It's so much better than the old villain plan I can barely even compare it. I wonder what the reader's image of Storm will really be when they are done with chapter twelve. Like, what will they be anticipating his role will be if not the villain? Perhaps a counter mentor for Nyx? Perhaps Luna's advice is wrong? What Storm is saying to Nyx is clearly in opposition to what Luna is telling her. And yet, it's being presented in a way that makes it look like Storm wants very much to help Nyx get ready for winning this war (which is absolutely the truth!). That's the beauty of this part of the story: I don't actually have to weave any sort of bold-faced lie or deception on Storm's part. Everything he's saying is true... it's just not the whole truth. What is the reader going to expect will happen? Maybe that Storm will militarize Nyx against Luna's wishes and turn her into a reluctant hero of Equestria in a way that Luna wasn't anticipating? The possible story threads which I have never had any intention of depicting are pretty intriguing.

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I had a quick read-though, and everything seems to be in order. Some little things that could use improvement, but nothing major. When's the next chapter going to be ready for editing?

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Good question. I've got some free time for the next few days, so I'm thinking I should be able to wrap up chapter 12 this week. Solidifying the vision for the chapter structure last night has been a huge help. I'm really liking the layout now. Funny how that works. This is now the fourth chapter split I've done in the story! Ch12's main scene used to be at the end of Ch8.

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That's good. I'm going to be pretty busy with other stuff this week, so a serious editing run might be delayed somewhat, unfortunately.

~~~
For this chapter, I didn't really leave any comments in the chapter. Most of the stuff is the same as I've said in other chapters. Talking heads and what not, so just going to focus on the more overarching analysis I tend to leave here in the forums.

Now, we see the rare white horned alicorn, and Celestia plays a solid, somber purpose in the scene. I feel like her reading the page so clearly speaks of wars past, or negotiations past, back when ponies were slane by spear and sword if there were to be war. I wonder if in the modern war she misses those older conflicts.

Anyway, the first scene of this chapter is a bit of a rewind, giving us details we already had and expanding on them with the new context given by the surrounding characters. Fluttershy being disturbed and concerned about the attacking animals is in line with her character. Twilight having a panic moment about the balefire bomb, and Celestia's; reaction to the mention of the deadly weapon felt both in line with how the characters are being portrayed. The mention of Dinky comes a bit out of left field. Perhaps that is something better suited for once Celestia has left the meeting. The Twilight/Nyx discussion feels like it would flow better if directly after the talk of the new mission focused on Sage.

And then the bomb. Both of these big scenes have had some mention of rape, or what I think is rape. The first scene as a means of transmitting the disease, and if rape is happening in Fluttershy's scene, it gives a lot of context and explanation. It's a fear that defines well why she's been acting the way she has, but... it's feeling a little... what's the best way I can put it: soap opera-y? It's big, it's dramatic, but at the moment I am failing to see what this whole side arc with Fluttershy provides beyond context about how dark and horrible the world is: a sense of context we are already getting from the disease that makes you butcher friends, family, and comrades. Now, the whole aspect of the seed of joy feels like it's foreshadowing something happening in the future, but at the same time is leaving me a bit confused on what actually happened. Was she raped, or was this something equally as horrible that Fluttershy and Flitter are just failing to describe. It's a bit of confusion, that kind of adds to the backhand slap of this scene with its sudden reveal.

And then finally we have a brief scene with this Storm Shadow, which after all the rapey in other scenes, has me worried that he's going to try to rapey, and then Nyx-smited. It's hard to know what's going to happen here since Storm Shadow is an OC that was only introduced in Luna's tour of the ministries chapter, and he didn't leave enough of an impression on me at the time to be excited to see his return. Most of the stuff talking about his memory spells was done by Twilight before Luna and Twilight actually ran into him. When he entered the scene, he took a very quick test memory recording to show Luna the technology, and then the scene was hover. That and I believe there was some displeasure from Luna in the fact Storm Shadow was delving into Zebra magic, or maybe that was another researcher. Anyway, the last lines feel very foreboding, so if that is the emotion you wish to convey, you've done it very well.

And that's about it for this chapter. Sorry I've been so delayed. Work has been work.

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Now, we see the rare white horned alicorn, and Celestia plays a solid, somber purpose in the scene. I feel like her reading the page so clearly speaks of wars past, or negotiations past

Heh. Yes, that is precisely the tone I was shooting for. Celestia knowing an 80-year-old zebra dialect speaks volumes about her diplomatic history which spans back several thousand years. Luna, being absent during that time, wouldn't know it. Initially, I wanted to have a zebra translate it, but I felt it would add a certain flair to Celestia's often-too-weak characterization to give this one to her.

a bit of a rewind, giving us details we already had and expanding on them with the new context given by the surrounding characters

That scene, in particular, I fretted over for months (years?) because I wanted so much to not simply reiterate known content. I wanted to focus on everyone's reactions to that news but not bore the reader with a literal retelling of everything as would likely happen during a real-life debriefing meeting. My team and I had numerous discussions on how to solve this. For the final published version, I do plan on taking another pass at improving its flow.

Twilight having a panic moment about the balefire bomb, and Celestia's; reaction to the mention of the deadly weapon felt both in line with how the characters are being portrayed.

With Twilight, I wanted to capture the last vestiges of that dynamic you created in Past Sins before we finally get these two in a "peer relationship". The mother/daughter dynamic with filly Nyx being protected by Twilight was one of my favorite parts of Past Sins (apart from how the abduction was handled, of course). I felt it would be nice to preserve that arc and see it come to a heartfelt and mature conclusion. So going forward from here, we won't be seeing any more of Twilight outright panicking because Nyx might be in danger. It also gives me more freedom to explore Nyx's actual role w/o Book Horse interfering.

Celestia's reaction... subtle, dropping the pencil. Then, "Did they succeed"... She knows this weapon. And she knows it could have easily killed Nyx if they weren't careful. Celestia is taking notes and watching Nyx with great interest at this point. Next chapter will reveal why, and we'll see an interesting callback to your post-Nightmare Moon discussion between the sisters.

The mention of Dinky comes a bit out of left field.

Indeed. Dinky hasn't been a part of the story since chapter two, but if you recall, I carefully set up her special talent as well as her personalty even then. She was not a throw-away character. I've been waiting until this moment to get her involved in the story. Dinky's role is such that it will dramatically change the logistics of the narrative going forward and allow me to expand the story into a larger scale.

Perhaps that is something better suited for once Celestia has left the meeting. The Twilight/Nyx discussion feels like it would flow better if directly after the talk of the new mission focused on Sage.

Hmm. Well, if these can be cut/pasted around without breaking the flow, I'm open to it. Much of this chapter was modular, so I can see that as being a possibility. I'll consider this in the final edit.

And then the bomb. Both of these big scenes have had some mention of rape, or what I think is rape.

That was actually a coincidence. The nature of the plague's spread and what happened to Fluttershy are entirely unrelated. I want to make it clear that while what Fluttershy went through was essentially rape of the mind/emotions, and while it was every bit as traumatic, that this is not meant to be sexual or symbolic of such. It was merely a starving changeling actively feeding on her during the famine. Something which canon Chrysalis was about to have her minions do to Canterlot proper in A Canterlot Wedding.

I am failing to see what this whole side arc with Fluttershy provides beyond context about how dark and horrible the world is

Okay, I'll try to explain. The purpose of the "rape recovery scene" isn't really that at all. Initially, the scene's purpose was to finish my changeling exposition. In fact, if you could take a moment to look over Let's Meet the Changelings, that will cover the model I'm using and how they are different from canon changelings. My changelings are, after all, very different from canon (and fanon). There is no hive. No queen. No cocooning victims to drain the love from them, etc. My changelings are peaceful, passive feeders. They draw love which is shed by those around them, and they live incognito so that they can integrate into societies which produce this love. My changelings are more of a symbiotic species, living within a host culture with the intent on being productive in the society.

Canon changelings are much more horrific. If you take the canon depiction from Canterlot Wedding, it strongly implies that they can harvest love without consent. After all, why invade Canterlot and spread fear if you need love to survive? Because in canon, they can rip the love right out of someone. What I was attempting to do with Fluttershy is show what that might look like. To say "Okay, so they can actively feed. How would this damage someone?" In addition, I made it a strictly forbidden practice. A capital offense, in fact. And also Chrysalis was a cult leader who thought it might be best if the changelings simply took what they needed rather than integrating and feeding passively. This bridges canon with my own story's changelings. That was the whole point behind what happened to Fluttershy. To show the horrible effects of this type of feeding and also build the changeling exposition so we have a way of understanding Flitter and her kin without resorting to lengthy exposition monologues.

As for the future, I'm not sure if there will be more of this or not. The story doesn't need it, really. No doubt, in future chapters, Fluttershy will be much more happy to see Flitter than up to this point. Overall, that character arc is pretty well wrapped up, but we should see a new status quo between them.

Now, the whole aspect of the seed of joy feels like it's foreshadowing something happening in the future, but at the same time is leaving me a bit confused on what actually happened. Was she raped, or was this something equally as horrible that Fluttershy and Flitter are just failing to describe.

Hmm, yeah I think the only part that bugs me is that I did try to be fairly clear about what happened, but apparently, it has failed to come through. Flitter's POV provides her thoughts as Fluttershy reveals what happened. The reader gets to see that this is a feeding technique which the changelings are forbidden to use. It's akin to chopping down the apple tree to get at the apples. It makes sense why their society would forbid it because it "damages the crops" severely. Incidentally, my team and I had some interesting debate on whether it was morally acceptable for Flitter to "interfere" with Fluttershy's psyche in an attempt to repair the damage. Lastly, depicting Fluttershy as an emotional wreck / rape survivor was also an interesting exercise in emotive storytelling. Drama is good.

And then finally we have a brief scene with this Storm Shadow, which after all the rapey in other scenes, has me worried that he's going to try to rapey, and then Nyx-smited.

No. No, no no, you don't have to worry about that angle. Storm isn't... well, you'll see what he is in the next chapter, trust me. He and Nyx have plot-critical stuff going on between them for certain!! But no... not anything so petty or shallow as this.

Storm is actually a super important character to this story. I realize I introduced him as a sort of forgettable side character, but I should emphasize that almost nothing in this story is superficial. I'll let you see for yourself in the next chapter what Storm is all about. I'll be very interested in hearing your updated impression on the guy after that!

the last lines feel very foreboding

Foreboding, eh? Mmm... I can see that, I suppose. But let's keep in mind this bit:
"He looked awful, with a disheveled mane and puffy eyes. He seemed as if the weight of the world had been pressed on his shoulders."

While foreboding is certainly within the scope of what I'd be okay with the reader feeling, it was not my intention. If anything, I want to depict a tired war veteran who is suffering from severe depression.

Storm has been through a lot. If you haven't read my short story Littlehorn, it won't have quite the full impact, but his daughter was the protagonist of that story. There are a whole lot of clues in Littlehorn as to what Storm is all about and what he believes regarding Nyx. What I said at the end with Storm being a fan of Nyx is genuine. He's thoroughly fascinated with her, as was hinted at even in his introduction after the memory orb demonstration. Storm has ideas for Nyx's future that will pull her in a direction that creates an important inner conflict for the next act of the story.

Thanks for looking the chapter over. Things are getting close to the end of the "polished" work for you to read. Chapter twelve coming up will provide a whole lot of new backstory to answer some outstanding questions as well as raise entirely new ones. Looking forward to your thoughts on that.

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I should emphasize that almost nothing in this story is superficial

Tree Hugger.

Non-consensuality.

Fun rape trivia! The word 'rape' is derived from the same root word as 'rapier,' and a more literal definition is akin to 'violate'. That's why we have phrases like 'raped the earth of its materials' and suchlike.

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Hence the qualification.

And... Pedants unite!!