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Skip down to here for the updated plan where Storm Shadow does not plan on killing Nyx.
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Questionable raised a good point about Storm Shadow's plan, and it goes way back to the original idea I had for him simply using Nyx to be his own superpowered minion, so to speak.

I don't recall where, but we did eventually work it out how the plan would be viable because Storm Shadow's plan is to kill Nyx and then take her horn to wield himself in a similar fashion as Sauron with the Ring of Power in LOTR.

So it's probably a good time to clarify exactly what this plan of his is, and why he had to go to such convoluted lengths to make it happen. Because at first glance, the plague does not seem like it would produce the end result we're talking about here. The key is Celestia's Journal.

So first, I'll explain what his plan actually is. This is from a PM I had with Questionable. The plan is not to control Nyx after she achieves godlike powers as a wild alicorn...

The idea is to kill Nyx by forcing her to have a magical burnout. It's tricky, but he's trying to create a weapon using the knowledge from Celestia's journal. Here are the ingredients:

* When a wild alicorn burns out by channeling too much energy from the Aether through their horn, they die and the horn transforms into an indestructible crystal that can still tap into the Aether. Examples of this are the Elements of Harmony. Those have access to this power source and can do incredible things like banish someone to the moon or turn powerful magical villains to stone, etc.

* The Elements of Harmony were specifically tuned by Luna to be only able to be used in conjunction and by ponies of specific virtue, but a freshly killed wild alicorn's horn could be used for any purpose. Such a weapon in the wrong hooves could allow someone to rule a nation or even the world potentially. It's essentially the Ring of Power from LOTR.

* Storm Shadow has to wait until Nyx is able to access the Aether before she would be able to be killed in this way. The transformation she's going through eventually leads to this point.

* The transformation is heavily influenced by Nyx's emotional state. The more she cares for and identifies with the mortals, the more she can resist the transformation. If Nyx can be forced to abandon her connection with the mortals, then the transformation would speed into its final stages.

* The memories which will be fed to Nyx are designed to stress her out to the point where she can no longer maintain the connection to the mortals. If she stopped caring for them, it would not be so painful, and her moral lapse would complete the transformation while she is held within the memory orb.

* The nature of the memory orb is such that there is no escape until the memory is complete. Consciousness is severed from the body and so no matter how strong you are, you cannot break free. Nyx would, however, try anyway because of the horror. She would be absolutely desperate to escape the memories, and she would attempt to use the power of the Aether to do so. She would begin channeling more and more energy in the attempt to escape and ultimately burn out and be killed.

So all Storm Shadow has to do is capture the memories of these infected ponies so that when Nyx experiences them, it is as if she herself were committing all those horrific deeds such as rape and cannibalism, skinning ponies alive, etc. The worse it is, the more effective it would be at forcing a burnout.

And, of course, the appropriate response is:

Poor Nyxie

Indeed. It's really, really awful.

Two further questions were raised after this.
1. How Storm Shadow could get all this specific information from Celestia's journal
2. What kind of PTSD effects would this have on Nyx herself?

Valid questions.
First, I'd like to say that while this story does have grimdark elements, I don't really consider it a grimdark story... Mostly because it does turn out well for our heroes. I'm not really a fan of grimdark, but I do appreciate a story which has horrific potential and the good guys somehow pull through okay. So let's dive in. *cracks knuckles*

These facts which Storm Shadow has acquired would be conclusions based on his own interpretation of what Celestia wrote in her journal. We mustn't forget that this plan is something he came up with after he went mad with grief over the loss of his (extremely gifted) daughter at Littlehorn. That same filly who was the protagonist in my short story (which makes it even more horrible if that were possible). But I'll try and guide you through his thought process based on the information Celestia has provided.

All alicorn horns can be used like that unless they are specifically tuned like Luna did with the Elements. Duh.

Yes, this is important. These are little details that seem inconsequential when given in an outline but really carry the plot along because without them, the plan doesn't completely succeed.

And as admittedly contrived as all of this is, what I've tried very hard to do is to make a plausible situation whose circumstances just happened to spell out the worst possible implications for our favorite black alicorn. In order to explore this, we first need to see why Storm Shadow wants Nyx's horn so badly, and what he'd be able to do with it, should his plan succeed.

Take Discord for example.

He was the original bearer of the Element of Magic (before Luna got her hooves on it). Discord was just some ordinary mortal draconequus. A prankster. A fun loving guy who'd never hurt anyone. He found that alicorn horn and became Discord. Note that this isn't even really a corruption. It simply gave him the power of the Aether and he used it on himself so that he could continue to do so even without the Element. Very, clever, I suppose. But still, when you stop and think about it, Discord definitely had the power necessary to rule the world and then some. He just didn't have the personality to destroy it. Discord was never megalomaniacal, really. He just wanted to have fun. But he's an excellent example of what is possible when someone has just one of these alicorn horns.

Now, let's go back in time and look at the situation from Celestia's perspective. While Luna was away (for three years), Celestia was responsible for picking up the pieces of the nearly-annihilated ponykind and trying to guide them into some form of civilization. "Decimated" does not even begin to describe it. They went from millions to 280 in less than a year. Celestia was in her thirties and she witnessed her father, a multi-millennia-old wild alicorn, utterly destroy everything which they had built. It could very well be that the mortals had an advanced civilization complete with large cities and magical technology. Celestia and Luna also would have been the defacto rulers of the mortals for a few years since they introduced themselves to them as benevolent princesses. This is the society which Hyperion destroyed. And Celestia was powerless to stop it.

The sisters witnessed their parents fight over the mortals in a climactic battle. The only reason Hyperion was able to be killed is that he was forced to burn out in self-defense. This mechanism would be known to her. And in the aftermath of the devastation, the sisters would be very motivated to prevent it from happening again in the future. Hence Luna's responsibility of creating the anti-alicorn weapon, and Celestia's responsibility of journalling what the deal is with the wild alicorns and how they might be killed if one does rise up and threaten the world once again.

The journal would be filled with historical facts regarding the nature of wild alicorns along with their vulnerabilities and instructions on how they might be killed. Celestia would not want this information just being common knowledge. So the journal was kept hidden and was meant only as a backup in case the Elements of Harmony did not succeed somehow.

So, what did Storm Shadow learn from it? He learned that an alicorn was a much more special creature than he originally was aware. The journal probably would not include details about Celestia & Luna's choice to discover their virtues and abandon the tremendous power. Why would she mention this? It is not necessary in order to give instructions on how to deal with the wild alicorns. What is necessary is that she include details that explains the transformation itself so that whoever reads it can be ready in case a new alicorn is born. So given all this, Storm Shadow would probably be fairly confused as to why Celestia & Luna are not exhibiting godlike power right now.

And not just confused. Angry. Quite angry. Because Equestria is several years into a bitter war with the zebras. Storm Shadow would want to know why Celestia and Luna do not simply step up and wipe out the zebras or at least beat them back enough that they give up. Being a military veteran himself, he has dealt with the zebras personally. He would probably know that they are not the type of people to give up. He might speculate that the sisters are holding back because they did not want to annihilate the zebras. Or maybe he viewed them as being deluded to think that diplomacy could still work. Whatever it is, Storm Shadow is quite pissed that the sisters are not stepping up to the plate and finishing the war.

After learning what the journal has to say, Storm Shadow then spent some time thinking about Nyx and her potential. He would view Nyx as the key to winning the war. This is actually mentioned in the Littlehorn story when Misty is talking to her teacher after the hoofball game.

“Yes, I know. But I like to call it ‘hero magic’, cause they’re trying to save lives of other ponies. My dad says that Nyx might someday end the war if she learns enough hero magic. I’d like to be right there with her and help, if I can.”

Tragic and sad, when you think about it. At this point, Storm Shadow is hopeful that Nyx could do what the sisters could not. That she would decide to embrace her strength and fight for Equestria. He would be bewildered and also fairly angry at Nyx's ban from fighting in the war. He might even go as far as to confirm his own suspicions about the sisters as true - that they don't want to win this war militarily. Why would Nyx not fight? Misty wonders this too.

So his plan is to get to know Nyx and have her become "the hero Equestria needs". And then Littlehorn happened.

At this point, all sane options go out the window. It's too late. His daughter is dead, and it's Celestia's fault. Why has she not stopped the war? What is her problem? Why is she holding back? Something must be done. All these thoughts would be racing through his mind as he sinks further into despair.

Finally, he decides to do something. He has had no success with Nyx directly. Twilight won't even listen to his talk of having Nyx be a military hero. He decides that sacrifices must be made. He knows that millions will perish if Equestria falls. He does his research and comes up with a plan. His memory orbs are the key. All he needs are horrific enough memories to insert into it. He learns of the zebra plague from decades ago and how awful that was. He learns that the plague was stopped, but that they kept samples of what could start it up again. He forms his plan and resigns himself to being essentially Red Eye in the sense that he does not view himself worthy of redemption, but he is the mechanism by which necessary change must come. Many would have to be sacrificed horribly, but in the end, he views it as necessary. In this respect, he is fairly similar to Red Eye. His motives are misguided, but not entirely evil.

All of this is short lived, unfortunately for him, because a few weeks after he receives the Black Book, Hyperion possesses him and takes over his plan.

It's worth mentioning that Storm Shadow's actual plan does not require the use of a villain's lair or anything elaborate. All he needed to do is to get Nyx to focus on the memory orb and she would go unconscious and never wake up. She would eventually die, and everyone would mourn. They would bury her and at some point Storm Shadow would exhume the body and take her horn. The elaborate plan with the villain's lair, the trap, the captives, and the blood magic ritual which turns him into a zebra alicorn... that is all Hyperion's modifications to Storm Shadow's plan.

So, how does Nyx pull out of this? What is the psychological effect on her? First, this comes immediately after Nyx's final moral lapse, where she recognizes that love is the one thing the mortals are superior to her in. Rumble shows her this. She decides to fight for them and they win the Battle of Baltimare, pushing the zebra army back. Nyx is doing pretty good at this point psychologically. And then, the memory orb.

She wakes up inside it and experiences stuff I don't even need to write about. The readers already know how awful it would be. This goes on for, oh... a couple hours probably. Storm Shadow's plan was to give her many days worth of memories to experience. Probably on a loop even, rigged to never end. When Periapsis intervenes, Nyx is in a state of mental shock. She is out of her body, though. She meets with Peri and they talk for a short while. Nyx sees things. Beautiful things. She sees her mother's ascension into a winged unicorn after all the virtuous things she did as a young adult herself. But most importantly, Periapsis shows Nyx what she did for the mortals. She shares the memory of the Battle of Everfree with Nyx, and when that memory is finished, it wakes her up.

What this does for Nyx psychologically, is that it is essentially the reverse of what the horrible memories were doing. They showed the mortals being abused beyond description, but Peri's memory showed how a godlike creature sacrificed herself in order to save them. Even though she never saw them as peers, she valued them so much that she was willing to give up everything in order that they not be destroyed. This is the last thing Nyx experiences (in first person, mind you) before waking up and facing Hyperion herself! She knows what is at stake, and she understands what needs to be done.

So to answer whether Nyx would suffer extreme PTSD from all of this... I don't think so. I think in the end, her own virtue (Valor) will pull her through and she'll be able to live a normal life despite spending a couple hours feeling like she is committing all those horrible acts of the infected ponies.

Oh, and incidentally, regarding the power of the Aether being used to defeat a wild alicorn: both of these depictions are awesome!

The visuals and the background music. Really, as much as I think Lullaby for a Princess is vastly superior, the canon MLP depiction is still epic. And amazingly, both of these were being created at the same time.

So much awesome.

4972451
Huh. This does explain why Storm didn't just do the obvious thing; go to Nyx and explain that if she does this, that and the other thing she'll become strong enough to win the war by herself. I'm a little dubious about having Periapsis save the day, though. You'll have to litter some foreshadowing around to prevent it from being a literal Deus Ex Machina.

The journal probably would not include details about Celestia & Luna's choice to discover their virtues and abandon the tremendous power.

So at no point does the journal mention that the Sisters are far, far less powerful than their parents? That seems a bit...odd. Wouldn't it have a description of the Battle of Everfree, where the Sisters being too weak to assist their mother is a huge part of why things turned out the way they did?
Doesn't the journal contain descriptions of the process by which wild alicorns develop, including the whole abandoning virtues thing? Celestia wrote all about that while never mentioning that she and her sister were on the morally acceptable side of the fence?

4972451 This is a lot of knowledge to absorb into my little brain but I can see why all this habalaloo would be have some concern

4973067

I'm a little dubious about having Periapsis save the day, though. You'll have to litter some foreshadowing around to prevent it from being a literal Deus Ex Machina.

I'll be careful to make sure that it's still Nyx who saves the day, so to speak. In a hero's journey story, they can be given great power by someone else, but it is still up to them to wield it. "Take this power" might enable them to do what they need to do, but it doesn't take away from their heroism. Heck, even Vader assisted Luke in the final moments of Return of the Jedi by chucking the Emperor into the void. In fact... Luke was very much in the same kind of position Nyx is in with the memory orb. He would have been beaten. The Emperor owned him and was kicking his ass.

Anyway, yeah, it's gotta be Nyx's actions that the climax relies on. Plus, the climax of a hero story is more about how the hero has changed than how the hero defeats the villain. Defeating the villain is not the goal. Solving the protagonist's issue is the goal. And in this story, the protagonist's issue is Nyx's alicorn nature and stopping her transformation which would turn her into something terrible.

So at no point does the journal mention that the Sisters are far, far less powerful than their parents? That seems a bit...odd.

I dunno. I could have it included or leave it out. I just tossed that in when I was typing all this up because it makes sense to leave it out for the plot. Storm Shadow might have a moment of rational understanding if Celestia explained that she and Luna are essentially just a smidge more powerful than the mortals (relative to their parents). He might sympathize with the fact that the sisters could not stop the zebra war themselves. It would then rely on his irrational mind in order to be angry with Celestia perhaps for giving up that power in the first place.

Wouldn't it have a description of the Battle of Everfree, where the Sisters being too weak to assist their mother is a huge part of why things turned out the way they did?

I'm not sure how much she'd write about that battle itself in terms of the specifics. If she simply did not say one way or another, then Storm Shadow may have assumed that the sisters were simply pre-transformation at that stage. Evidence suggests that they are not omnipotent although they could simply be pacifists for all he knows. Or maybe he believes they are afraid to use their full strength for how it would change their public image - or afraid to use it because maybe they would accidentally wipe out everybody. Could be a number of things. But he needs a reason to be upset with Celestia. If it relies purely on his irrational mind, then I guess that's what we have to work with.

Doesn't the journal contain descriptions of the process by which wild alicorns develop, including the whole abandoning virtues thing? Celestia wrote all about that while never mentioning that she and her sister were on the morally acceptable side of the fence?

I think I never really wanted the sisters to be the subject of the journal, basically. It was not meant to be a comprehensive historical record as much as it was meant to be instructions and facts which could be used to defeat a new wild alicorn should one arise. Maybe you could help flesh this out if it's necessary to actually decide how it would be written. Just keep in mind that this would affect the villain's decision making process because his decision to use that knowledge depends on what it says. And when you add the ingredient of his daughter getting killed horribly in Littlehorn (because the war had not been stopped earlier - I'm not going to have him blame Celestia for the location of the school; that's nonsense) then it should still make sense despite his having gone mad with grief.

4973351
The interesting thing with the journal is that Celestia needs to be very careful not to give the instructions for her or Lunas destruction away. Should such information fall into the wrong hooves it would be catastrophic for them both. So Celestia intentionally left out information regarding alicorns and their virtues. Celestia may even deliberately imply that she and Luna are mature alicorns and such possess powers no mortal can hope to defeat simply to protect themselves.

This falls nicely into your hands as Storm Shadow would fall for the bluff and believe the sisters are all powerful, when, in fact they aren't.

Regarding Peri, I see her being a guide for Nyx; a light in the darkness the orbs created in her mind. Peri might not even show herself at first, using images alone to break the cycle and make Nyx realise her virtue by herself. Only when the battle is over would Peri show herself to Nyx so they can talk face to face.

With Nyx and PTSD, Peris intervention and Nyxs realisation would break the chain of horror but leave mental scars in its wake. These wouldn't be immediately apparent, Hyperion being the evil she needs to defeat and all, but they could manifest later. Crucially however her new virtue and her friends give her the strength to recover (That would possible be for the sequel)

4973647

Should such information fall into the wrong hooves it would be catastrophic for them both.

And technically, if someone were to force them to burn out, it wouldn't actually be fatal. It'd be the same situation Nyx faced in the prologue. The sisters can't deliberately channel the Aether at will. Their use is limited to the few skills they mastered back in the day such as moving the sun and moon, etc.

Celestia may even deliberately imply that she and Luna are mature alicorns and such possess powers no mortal can hope to defeat simply to protect themselves.

This falls nicely into your hands as Storm Shadow would fall for the bluff and believe the sisters are all powerful, when, in fact they aren't.

That could backfire spectacularly, though. If they portray themselves as the very creatures which the instructions are meant to be used against, it would do nothing to dissuade attackers. Imagine: "Here is how you defeat the nearly-omnipotent xyz. BTW, I am a nearly-omnipotent xyz - you cannot hurt me."

Peri might not even show herself at first, using images alone to break the cycle and make Nyx realise her virtue by herself. Only when the battle is over would Peri show herself to Nyx so they can talk face to face.

Yeah, how this is portrayed is definitely fluid at this stage. It should definitely be played up for emotional effect, though. I was thinking about how graphic the story needs to be, and it seems to me that sprinkling examples of horrific deeds of the infected throughout the story would build a clear picture of what they do in the reader's mind. And then when Nyx is actually experiencing them, I don't have to describe it at all except to confirm that she's living their memories. And then to have her reaction to this is the point which underscores how awful it was. The story does not have to get explicit at all in the final moments. The reader can put that picture together in their own mind.

With Nyx and PTSD, Peris intervention and Nyxs realisation would break the chain of horror but leave mental scars in its wake. These wouldn't be immediately apparent, Hyperion being the evil she needs to defeat and all, but they could manifest later. Crucially however her new virtue and her friends give her the strength to recover (That would possible be for the sequel)

Definitely there would be challenges. I'd say she could still live a normal life, but she'd need support from loved ones for certain. This trades some really old stereotypically Nyx-like mental health issues for brand new ones. No longer would she be the persecuted woobie afraid of bushes and bullying. Now, she'd have after-effects of serious horrors that are the price one pays for gaining heroism.

4973701
(Stupid tablet not letting me quote things)
On alicorn defeating instructions, I see your point
It's the problem she'd face when writing a manual on how to defeat her kind should another emerge, the pickle is that she's also inferring information that could be used against her or Luna. Celestias smart enough to cover her ass against those that would use the information against her, but how'd she'd do that is the kicker (one my sleep-addled brain is struggling with)

4973701

Solving the protagonist's issue is the goal

Yes. I'm more talking about making sure that the reader is fully aware of who Periapsis is and what her motives are before she saves Nyx. A literal deceased deity showing up and helping the protagonist inside an artificially-constructed memory... Deus Ex Machina...
I'm so funny.

Anyway, an unknown alicorn showing up out of nowhere and saving Nyx wouldn't be a good move, so establishing who Periapsis is in-text beforehand would be important. It seems you're already planning to do that, so I'm just rambling for no reason now.

That could backfire spectacularly, though. If they portray themselves as the very creatures which the instructions are meant to be used against, it would do nothing to dissuade attackers. Imagine: "Here is how you defeat the nearly-omnipotent xyz. BTW, I am a nearly-omnipotent xyz - you cannot hurt me."

Did Celestia anticipate her journal falling into the wrong hooves? I thought it was an insurance policy in case a new wild alicorn came around and the Sisters were out of the picture or already defeated.

4973784

I think the primary line of defense is to keep the journal hidden. It's more for if she were already defeated, she would probably have someone who is trusted that could go find the journal and give it to the others. This (strangely) is similar to Celestia's plan in Immortal Game where she put all her eggs in Twilight's basket for the same reason. So the point of this is to say that Celestia would not go revealing this information during a time when better options existed. Options such as the Elements of Harmony. But the journal would still be there just in case that didn't work. A last hope for saving the mortals, should all other options fail. Celestia is a "think ahead" type of person anyway, and Immortal Game played that out much further than it probably should have. But still, it's fair to say she's a strategist.

As for the contents of the journal itself, she could describe the traits of the potential enemy, and the signs of danger. The purpose would be in giving the thinkers some information that could hopefully be used against the threat. In the case of Storm Shadow, the ingenious plan of creating a device that is the perfect alicorn trap... the memory orb, is a good example of one such solution. But yeah, she would definitely not want to attract attention to herself as a potential victim of her own instructions. This will need further fleshing out probably.

4973829

an unknown alicorn showing up out of nowhere and saving Nyx wouldn't be a good move

Oh, there's no need to worry about that... I plan on revealing the alicorn parents in Act Two.

I thought it was an insurance policy in case a new wild alicorn came around and the Sisters were out of the picture or already defeated.

Pretty much, yeah. See above post.

...
I'm not entirely sure what any of that means.
Maybe I'll just go back to kicking grammar before the edited chapters are published.

4974107
What part didn't make sense? If there's something I wasn't clear enough on, I could try to elaborate.

4972451 Just general notes on this discussion

On one level I think I finally noticed kind of what we are actually doing with this story. We are writing Nyx's hero's journey. To use the Star Wars analogy, Past Sins basically ends with the scene where luke says" I want to be trained in the force and become a Jedi like my father." Past Sins is about Identity, and it involves Nyx's decision of what that identity will be.

This story is about what Nyx does with that Identity. Which I always knew but now is in very sharp relief. Ecept of course that A hero's journey requries a call and a threat, and since there is no threat in the immeadiate time after past sins, the story unlike star wars, had to wait.

On that note there is one thing that i am fascinated by and that i definitely want the story to address.

And that is that for Storm Shadow's plan to be completed Nyx must become ever more powerful and thus ever more dangerous. It's like raising a tiger cub and only being able to attack them when they are their peak lethality. It's one of the dichotomies that most interests me about Nyx, she is so kind and caring and yet also literally as dangerous as a pony gets, and I cannot wait to see how Storm Shadow ( and the story) deals with it.

It does have to be handled explicitly in the story though. Otherwise readers may become confused as to why Storm Shadow cannot strike until Nyx is at maximum lethality..

4975787

On one level I think I finally noticed kind of what we are actually doing with this story. We are writing Nyx's hero's journey.

Indeed, I've been thinking about this for a full year, now. Seriously, take a look at that. I just read it and what amazes me is how much of it is still the plan, and how much of it has been refined or dropped entirely. I'm also a bit startled at my own personal style and how much it's changed ove the past 12 months.

But yeah, this is most definitely a Hero's Journey.

And I completely agree that Past Sins was a story about identity. Even when I was not quite finished reading it for the first time, I was telling my friends that I was reading this awesome story about identity. But you're right, in that the original story did not have the opportunity to become a Hero's Journey. So now, here we are doing exactly that.

For Storm Shadow's plan to be completed Nyx must become ever more powerful and thus ever more dangerous.
...
It does have to be handled explicitly in the story though. Otherwise readers may become confused as to why Storm Shadow cannot strike until Nyx is at maximum lethality.

Indeed. This is significant because I need to scale up Nyx's personal situation carefully so that by the time the trap is sprung, she is quite near the point of no return in her own transformation. There are many factors which go into this.

For starters, I don't want to make her useless as a character for a sequel. If she's too powerful, then she won't be interesting in later stories.

There are factors I can insert into the lore which will help smooth things out in this regard. One of them is the idea that Nyx's transformation is linked to her emotional state. This isn't just an arbitrary decision. The idea behind it is that as long as Nyx has an emotional connection with the mortals, it slows down her transformation. Reverse this, and she can potentially finish her transformation over the period of an hour or two if she is emotionally disconnected from the mortals. Experiencing the horrors of the memory orb would achieve this.

Another is the idea of Nyx's transformation providing her with intermittent access to the Aether. So the power that comes in spurts is not the same as the power which remains because of Nyx mastering an ability. This explains why the sisters have a few mastered talents such as moving the sun and moon, but are not capable of doing an assortment of tricks which use the Aether. For Nyx, we'd want her using the Aether in spurts to make act three interesting - especially the final two battles - but we don't want her to keep most of those abilities. It could be something which comes (again) with her emotions, which is a convenient way to synchronize these powers to the times when she needs them the most.

And then there's the trap itself. If Nyx is that dangerous at the time the trap is sprung, then it had damn well better be foolproof. I've worked out the precise logistics of the climax down to a pretty fine level of detail to ensure that it is plausible, logical, and leaves very few points of potential failure. In other words, because the villain is playing with fire here, he would want to ensure his success, right? So the plan needs to be really solid. It's so solid, in fact, that only via a combination of quite a few external factors is it able to be foiled. Key ponies for breaking into the villain's lair are: Dinky, Apple Bloom, Ebonstar, Willow, and one pegasus (Flitter or Rumble). Without each and every one of these, there is no way anyone is even getting inside that lair. On the inside, it comes down to Periapsis, whose horn crystal enables Nyx to escape from the inescapable memory orb - the perfect alicorn trap. Starfire would not have seen this coming, and his mechanism to keep help out of the lair would have succeeded if not for the five friends working together using their unique gifts in conjunction.

And that's Starfire's plan - because Hyperion is much more intelligent than Storm Shadow, and he would have taken less chances. Still, Storm Shadow's plan itself was quite simple, relying solely on the traits of the memory orb in addition to the fact that Nyx trusts him. So given this, it really does not matter how dangerous Nyx is. His plan would still succeed.

As for letting the readers know why the villain is doing things a certain way... I agree that's going to be quite tricky. I guess we'll have to think about that as we go. There may be opportunities that present themselves in time. Thankfully, I'm not bound to one character's first person perspective. So I can have portions of chapters exploring the thoughts and feelings of the villain from time to time.

What's going to be real fun is to see how all of this actually gets depicted in the final act. I have a vague image in my mind, but there's going to be a whole lot of new ideas between now and then. It could change and improve quite a bit in that time.

A big challenge in depicting Storm Shadow pre-reveal is in making sure his characterization is correct. On one hand, I don't want to make him seem like a villain at all, in order to maintain the mystery for the reader. On the other hand, his plan is so horrible that the reader might feel like this came out of nowhere that he was the villain all this time.

For this reason, I think it does work best to have him be a "tragic villain". Like what I said earlier about Red Eye from Fo:E, Storm Shadow believes that his plan is the only viable option. He is convinced that he must do it, or Equestria will fall. What's worse is that no one in authority will help him, so he has to be the villain of the piece. If I throw in some guilt over the whole thing, then I should be able to characterize him as a tragic character without seeming like a villain and not jar everyone when it turns out that this is exactly what he was.

What's more is that with Hyperion possessing him shortly after act two opens up, there really isn't that much time where I have to keep up that characterization anyway. So... hopefully, this very tricky situation will resolve itself in the prose once I get to that part.

5005615

Why does his plan have to involve killing Nyx? You've said previously that he isn't aware that becoming a wild alicorn means that Nyx is likely to destroy everything, so why is he so insistent on offing her and using her horn himself if he's met her, knows she's a good pony and (in his head) believes he has other options?

At first, I thought maybe you were on to something. But I'm not sure that would work in the plot.

The thing is, the alicorn burnout is fatal. That's the premise behind why Periapsis and Hyperion were killed in their epic battle. So that would be in the journal. Storm Shadow would know that forcing Nyx to burn out would kill her. The problem with just trying to talk Nyx into embracing her wild alicorn destiny, as it were, is that Storm Shadow has already committed to making the memory orb. The plague has been unleashed at the very start of the story, even before our heroes have heard of it. So this means that Storm Shadow is fully committed to a plan which would trap Nyx in the memory orb.

Now, if we change it so that rather than burning out, she is simply "forced into" completing her transformation, then we'd have to address all the logistics changes that come with it. Remember, it was my original plan that the memory orb would not kill her. So we're revisiting the original plan here, which would supposedly turn Nyx into some sort of living weapon that Storm Shadow could take advantage of somehow. But that brings back the same problem we had before...

It doesn't really make sense to turn Nyx into a super minion. If Storm Shadow stressed Nyx out enough so that she would just go ballistic and straight-up win the war for the ponies, do you really think she'd stop there and say "Thanks Storm Shadow. I just needed the push"? Do you think she'd be okay with the fact that he murdered hundreds of ponies in order to torture her into being powerful? What is the logical conclusion of this idea? Doesn't look good for Storm Shadow. That's why I changed it to him killing Nyx so that none of that messy aftermath would enter the picture.

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However...

There is one twist we could do here which would change a lot of the plan but still be plausible and not include the killing of Nyx as a result.

What if Storm Shadow let go of his own life and future for the sake of winning the war?

Imagine Storm Shadow, rather than being a villain, being so mad with grief over the war and the loss that he became utterly convinced that Nyx becoming a wild alicorn was the only hope for Equestria? And what if the memory orb's purpose was to push Nyx into finishing her transformation as opposed to killing her. What if experiencing those memories in the first person provided the exact kind of stress on Nyx that would cause her to abandon restraint and become a full wild alicorn capable of everything which Hyperion and Periapsis could do. What if Celestia's journal did not convince Storm Shadow that a wild alicorn would be the worst thing ever for ponykind? That if Storm Shadow knew Nyx enough that he believed Nyx's character was "too good" to become that destructive to ponykind? What if he was convinced that if Nyx did transform that her strength of character combined with near-omnipotence would essentially place her in the position to rule the world herself and the ponies would be her people, which she would protect and the bloodshed would stop?

Then, it becomes a numbers game. If the war continues, thousands at minimum, would die. But if he unleashed the plague for the purpose of harvesting memories, then only hundreds would likely die. And yes they would die horribly, but Storm Shadow might view it as a worthy sacrifice considering the end result. What's more, is that it would surely result in both Celestia and Luna no longer being in power. Equestria would be ruled by a demigod, and the ponies' future would be secure. That is, if the journal did not convince him that she'd abandon them. That part of the transformation might not even be in the journal. The whole thing with the wild alicorn losing all sense of value of the mortals might not be a part of the journal.

What does this change, though? Quite a bit.

It means that Storm Shadow would want to nurture Nyx's mentality toward actively winning the war. He would want to push Nyx in a direction opposite of where Luna and Celestia want to push her. So this creates an internal struggle within Nyx as she has external forces pulling her in opposite directions. Also, the problem with Storm Shadow interacting nicely with Nyx knowing he's going to torture and kill her goes away. That cognitive dissonance was something I was not looking forward to reconciling. Storm Shadow would definitely be working against Luna's efforts, but in the mind that he thinks he'd be helping Nyx, so he would not view himself as any sort of villain at all, apart from having to do "necessary horrific killing" for the greater good. Note: This is no different than the decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan in order to end WWII. No different at all!

But as I said in the above post, the "logical conclusion" of this is that Nyx would be so very, very pissed at Storm Shadow. She would feel terrible that so many ponies were tortured and killed so that she would be tortured into her transformation. She would definitely want to kill him. And here's the twist. He would be okay with this. He might even offer himself willingly, insisting that she kill him. He would feel extremely guilty over what he had to do. It would be a very Oppenheimer moment, but with the insistence that he be killed for his actions.

All of this creates a very interesting storytelling dynamic. Storm Shadow is still an antagonist by definition, because he is an agent opposing Nyx's progress toward solving her issue. In storytelling, the plot is the set of circumstances that gets in the protagonist's way. The climax is where the protagonist's issue is resolved. And any antagonist is basically a character that assists the plot in its function. But he would be no ordinary antagonist. This is because he is not "anti-Nyx". He's simply against Nyx stopping her transformation.

The more I think about this, the more I think this is a better solution. It trades some rather cliche moments for some really unique and deeply powerful moments. It trades megalomaniacal Storm Shadow for tragic antihero Storm Shadow. It trades contrivance of a good father and faithful member of the Ministry of Arcane Science becoming a power-mad psychopath intent on destroying Nyx so that he can use her horn to do what all villains hope to do but never really think it out thoroughly... rule the world. And in return, it gives us a desperate war hero who is thoroughly convinced that in order to prevent the killing of thousands or millions of ponies, he's going to have to become death himself and murder several small villages of innocents in order that the nation be saved. And the fact that he's willing to give his own life up in order to achieve this is a much, much richer story device than any megalomaniacal villain could possibly be.

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Oh, I'm liking where this is going!

Interestingly this idea goes beyond simply ending the war, he's trying to create a leader that he feels Equestria deserves. This builds on the idea of what a hero is that Littlehorn touched on, Storm Shadow believes that Nyx is the hero that Equestria needs and is willing to do anything to achieve it, even if it means becoming the villain.

I like this tug-of-war between Luna and Storm Shadow, both want the same thing but have very different methods of achieving it and they're both pulling Nyx this way and that.

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Self-sacrifice for what he believes is the greater good is a much better motive than out-of-nowhere megalomania.
In fact, it's so much better that I'm questioning why we need him to be possessed by Hyperion at all. Think about it - after Nyx exits the memory orb, Storm can walk up, reveal his motives and then lie down to be killed, with the dying request that Nyx end the war and rule over ponykind in peace. Nyx can then tell him just how misguided his plan was and what the consequences would have been if he had succeeded.
That's a little rough and unfinished, but even now it's much more potent a finale than 'and then the bad dude was possessed by the other bad dude', and it's much more in keeping with Nyx's character and the show's themes to spare the big bad and show him the error of his ways, however harshly.
Hyperion can be a bigger bad reserved for a sequel, perhaps, while Periapsis can be used pretty much in the same way you had planned if Heroic Determination! is insufficient to overcome the horribleness of the memory orb.

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Well, except for the fact that it derails the entire historical setup for this universe and its overarching conflict. Yes if I wanted, I could wrap up the story in a nice and neat little package with very few twists or epic oh-shit moments. But that would produce a much weaker climax with Nyx saying "Oh sorry you were misguided" and then... something anticlimactic to bring the story to a close.

Yeah, no, see here's the thing: The whole climax is a massive struggle where Nyx defeats a major enemy from multiple angles. The entire climax of the story is very detailed and forces like eight different characters to work together to overcome the challenge and defeat the bad guy. Storm Shadow's original plan to force Nyx into her transformation doesn't even require a villain's lair. It doesn't require captives. It doesn't involve the black book. It doesn't involve a blood magic ritual changing him into a badass zebra alicorn, and thus doesn't even involve a final battle. Hell, it doesn't even threaten Nyx's life. It doesn't require a coordinated rescue effort where several ponies have to work together to try and break into a mountain lair. It doesn't involve the wild alicorn parents at all. And it doesn't provide the setup for the sequel which is supposed to take place 500 years in the future because it doesn't overcharge Nyx's PipBuck in the first place. Also, it demolishes the Fo:E timeline because Nyx would simply win the zebra war and the apocalypse wouldn't even happen. Going that route would cheat the story out of more than half its planned tension. And the epic climax which I've created would be wholly tossed in the bin.

Having said that, however, thank you for the vote of confidence in this new plan! I feel pretty good about going forward with that being Storm Shadow's intentions. The main problem I had before was in justifying the already taking place zebra plague in light of the fact that Storm Shadow really isn't that evil.

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Der-her-her. Well, aren't I the smartest kiddo on the block.
Trying to second-guess your planning hasn't worked out well in the past either. Apologies.
A couple things:

it doesn't even threaten Nyx's life.

Is the memory orb not a threat to all of civilisation? That's more than high enough stakes, I would have thought.

Also, it demolishes the Fo:E timeline because Nyx would simply win the zebra war and the apocalypse wouldn't even happen.

...eh? Is endgame Nyx suddenly strong enough to win the war by herself? I have no doubt that a Past Sins alicorn could, but you've put a lot of effort into justifying alicorns being unable to go head-to-head with whole armies. You've yet to say exactly how strong Nyx will be by the end of the story, but I doubt it will be strong enough to just win the war. Significantly affect the outcome, perhaps, but certainly not effortlessly win.

the apocalypse wouldn't even happen.

Would that be a bad thing?
Kidding, kidding, no need to eviscerate me. I know this isn't a Fo:E fixfic, and flat-out averting the apocalypse would no doubt piss off a lot of Fo:E fans even if you wanted to.

Going that route would cheat the story out of more than half its planned tension.

It would require ridiculous significant changes, and looking at the situation again I can certainly see why you really don't want to use it, especially with all the stuff you have planned for later.
That said, one of the things I really like about the origional Fallout games was that there was usually an option to resolve situations peacefully, even during the final boss battle.

I guess I got a little too keen for a spare-the-baddie moment.
I'll go back and have another look at exactly how you've planned the endgame - clearly, I need to be more familiar with it.
However, with this new motivation, it would actually be pretty OoC for Nyx to just kill Storm Shadow if she understands his point of view and even vaguely resembles her current self after all the horribleness she'd have been through by the story's end. That obviously isn't the case if he's possessed by Hyperion, though. Having Nyx stumble across a diary or something (in typical Fallout style) explaining his thought process in the sequel could be a nice moment.

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Is the memory orb not a threat to all of civilisation?

You mean the plague? Eh, well... no Storm Shadow has a control mechanism, plus our heroes will put the cure into a megaspell anyway. It's really nothing for Nyx herself to stop. Nyx has nothing whatsoever to do with stopping the plague. Unless that's not what you were asking?

Is endgame Nyx suddenly strong enough to win the war by herself?

Endgame Nyx (if Storm Shadow's plan succeeded) would definitely result in her being able to do whatever the hell she wants. She'd be a full-on wild alicorn with the power of a Greek Titan. Celestia and Luna are not wild alicorns, and so... no, they cannot win the war by themselves.

You've yet to say exactly how strong Nyx will be by the end of the story, but I doubt it will be strong enough to just win the war. Significantly affect the outcome, perhaps, but certainly not effortlessly win.

I might be missing what you're really asking. Originally it sounded like your question was regarding Storm Shadow's theoretical plan, should he succeed. When you said...

after Nyx exits the memory orb, Storm can walk up, reveal his motives and then lie down to be killed, with the dying request that Nyx end the war and rule over ponykind in peace. Nyx can then tell him just how misguided his plan was and what the consequences would have been if he had succeeded.

If Nyx exits the memory orb according to Storm Shadow's plan, she would be a full-on wild alicorn. So yeah, the war would be over. But I'm having trouble understanding the scenario you've proposed. Would she be pulled out early or something? Like without the transformation finishing somehow? That's even more anticlimactic.

But to answer your question as to how strong I plan on Nyx being at the end of the story, I plan on her mastering a small number of Aether maneuvers, including some war magic, which was something neither Celestia nor Luna actually did. Apart from her Aether maneuvers (which would tip the scales), I'd say that Nyx will be somewhat stronger than Celestia or Luna physically. This is from a durability standpoint, as in her vulnerability to injuries. Her raw magical capacity will be a lot higher than it is currently. That is her current weak area, so this is a good place for her to grow. Her throughput will also be significantly improved, giving her access to greater magical strength. She would be a dangerous foe, probably capable of winning any one on one battle against contemporary enemies. She might even be able to kill an adult dragon by herself, with some risk. I have no plans to make Nyx multitalented, although she will still learn a few new conventional magic tricks. She won't be like Windy or Twilight by any means. Overall, Nyx is not going to ever be strong enough to win whole wars by herself. The power gap between her final state and a true wild alicorn is still an immense gulf of unimaginable power. But if Nyx were to get in a fight against both Celestia, Luna, and even a zebra Elite, all at the same time, she might have a chance at winning. A lot of this is undecided, so I guess we'll see how it goes.

Would that be a bad thing?

Ha! Sometimes I do regret the decision to anchor myself to the Fo:E story. It is what it is, I suppose.

I'll go back and have another look at exactly how you've planned the endgame - clearly, I need to be more familiar with it.

Hmm, maybe I need to make a thread on that. I have quite a few scattered notes which I should pull together into one place. A lot of these notes are in The Brain, which you all don't have access to. I'll see about getting going with that soon!

it would actually be pretty OoC for Nyx to just kill Storm Shadow if she understands his point of view

Yeah, in the hypothetical alternate universe where Hyperion did not possess him, we could look at Storm Shadow's plan and ask what he expected Nyx to do. Maybe not kill him but surely he would be punished for war crimes in some way. And if he actually succeeded, Nyx would be a wild alicorn and personally annihilate ponykind. Probably. Or if Periapsis brought Nyx out of the memory orb (as planned) and Storm Shadow's plan failed anyway, then rather than a final battle in the climax of the story, we'd have Storm Shadow's military tribunal. Exciting!

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I'll go back and have another look at exactly how you've planned the endgame - clearly, I need to be more familiar with it.

I've finished writing an epic-lengthy summary of all the notes (that I could find) on the subject of the story's climax. I found a surprising number of outdated notes which I'll need to get rid of, so I had to pluck out all the most recent versions of everything.

You can read the climax summary here

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Heh. I just realized something. You know who also had a plan which involved killing a bunch of innocent people in order to hopefully prevent the deaths of a whole lot more people by preventing them from annihilating each other in a prolonged war? Who also played on the "good guy" side for years and fooled everyone, even the leaders of the nation? Whose plan also involved the corruption of a nearly omnipotent character who killed enemy combatants via what is essentially a telekinetic woodchipper? Aaaand who expected no sympathy for his actions, but welcomed the retribution he deserves once the plan is irreversible???

Ah well. I still like it. It's a great villain trope for a mystery story.