Is ready for review!!

I had to wait until drafting enough of the next chapter so that I would know what finishing touches this one needed. Basically, this chapter and the following are linked. They take place simultaneously. This chapter picks up right about the time our heroes are flying into Canterlot with the zebra body. They have left the bayou with newcomer Chocolate Cake and the four flyers have returned to the site of the balefire egg explosion and dug up the body off camera.

The content of this chapter used to be in The Keen Sense of Urgency, if you recall. I stripped it all out and made it into its own chapter that takes place two days later. The time of day is slightly earlier now, but not enough to affect what happens. Luna meets with Fluttershy and then Twilight as she tours their respective ministries.

Several details have been changed. Things like what the receptionist says and all that. Pay particular attention to that because it links in with the next chapter. I want to make sure that the flow in this chapter is still good though. Let me know if anything is confusing. There is a very specific reason for the ways which the receptionist and Fluttershy act when they talk to Luna. But what I'm concerned about is the tone of the chapter at this point because this is meant to be a very serious moment for Luna early in the chapter and yet it's blended with the more comical antics of the unnamed hippie pony known as Treehugger in the show. This is a concern only because Luna does interact with this pony just before moving on to the foyer and seeing the war memorial where she has that flashback to her own childhood. Normally, I try hard to keep silly and serious separated to avoid jarring tone shifts. So let me know if this doesn't work.

There is a lot of new content with Luna's interactions. I've expanded on her talk with Spell Nexus quite a bit, giving further exposition into the story. Likewise, Luna's talk with Twilight about the memory spell has been expanded. The story is now deliberately trying to expose the reader to more and more facts about the backstory to push that forward bit by bit.

Also, as usual, my changes and additions are highlighted in grey for easy spotting. There are a lot this time around because there's been quite a bit of work done on the chapter for the restructuring. Let me know what you think!

The draft itself needs another proofreading pass by me. Usually I'll do this before handing it over to you guys, but this time I felt I'd just give it to you as is and do my final pass at the same time you take a look at it.

4990162 Goodness, I've went through three prereads! This is getting ridiculous... Okay, I'm going to type this review as I read it.

First off, one of the highlighted sentences has an unnecessary quotation mark. It's the beginning sentence on page 4, might want to fix that...

Second, am loving this chapter right now! I had to read it a bit slowly to get some form of understanding but so far, the only grammar mistake was the one mentioned above. So Luna's feeling a case of mixed emotions eh? Understandable considering the war effort. Flow is... well, I need to refresh myself on the last chapter but it is great from the beginning of this chapter to the end. Antics wise, yeah, I can see some silliness mixed with the seriousness of the situation in here. It does help to have a bit of comedy to lighten up the day you know Then comes the ending of this chapter, I am ever so curious as to who she's meeting up with... the suspense is killing me!

I think that about sums up my opinions about this chapter, not to be sophisticated and all mind you. Now if I can just feel so confident on the current knowledge of writing my first shipfic I'd say I'm a happy man

4990162
I must say, I'm really liking the additions to this chapter. You're alluding to the powers behind the alicorns and the dangers that come from mortals daring to try and harness it. That and we see the true cost of war in a very poignant way as well as that of Littlehorn on Luna, this chapter really helps build her character as we see the weight of responsibility pn her shoulders. We also see that there's brains behind the beauty

I'm glad to see that Luna is cautious regarding the megaspell framework and even foresees its possible misuse, I can only imagine Lunas reaction when she eventually finds out what Fluttershy has done with it in the future

Poor Spell Nexus, he never gets a break.

Its cool that Lunas backstory regarding the Elements has been added, nice bit of world building, adding to her flashback with her mother it should serve to pull the reader deeper into the story. We even get to hear about the origins of Discord and what a close call the world got when he found the element of magic. I'd love to see him and Luna recounting the tale together, I bet the accounts would differ wildy

The additions regarding zebra magics really build on the idea that something is inherently wrong there, that something has fundamentally changed in zebra culture and not for the better. I like the foreshadowing of Hyperion regarding the Everfree its very subtle, Lunas on the right track but she doesn't have all the pieces yet.

Also nice additions to keep up with recent episodes

That ending! I have a feeling who she's meeting but will wait and see if I'm right.

4990995

we see the true cost of war in a very poignant way as well as that of Littlehorn on Luna, this chapter really helps build her character as we see the weight of responsibility on her shoulders.

You know... I had this whole idea of Luna's feelings for Littlehorn in mind way back in oh, probably October 2014. Back when a lot of people viewed Luna as a rather detached person. In fact, the show itself depicted Luna mostly as someone troubled with fitting in with Luna Eclipsed. There was the episode with Scootaloo as well I suppose, which showed that she was able to counsel others through their dreams. But the most curious aspect was that Fo:E itself never depicted Luna as a sensitive, and caring leader who truly loved her subjects. This wasn't even a thing in Fo:E, and barely a thing in the show canon.

But now, we have the "Magical Sheep" episode where we see the real Luna and how deeply she cares for others. Not only that, but we see how much she feels responsible for them and guilty if she fails in any way. So curiously enough, my depiction in both chapter 3 and this chapter seem to be spot on with what we've seen in the show in the most recent episodes. I'm pretty happy with this development.

Poor Spell Nexus, he never gets a break.

Man, no kidding! As if it wasn't bad enough he nearly created a monster that would have ruled Equestria with cruelty... now he's partially responsible for the end of the entire world!

I like the foreshadowing of Hyperion regarding the Everfree its very subtle, Lunas on the right track but she doesn't have all the pieces yet.

It's super fun to lay these clues out in the story, but I'm worried that I might lose track of where all the hints actually are! The story is getting increasingly complex, and I just hope everyone can help me remember who knows what and when so I don't accidentally repeat a piece of important exposition or forget to depict it at all.

That ending! I have a feeling who she's meeting but will wait and see if I'm right.

Hehehe. I don't often get to tease you guys...

4990995
Oh, also what did you think of the part where Nyx shows up in the chapter for a bit? Did that seem natural and flow okay? Was it confusing at all, given that Nyx hasn't been in the chapter at all up to that point, and the last we heard was that she was going to be digging up the zebra body to take to Canterlot. Did the mention from Fluttershy about the "quarantine situation" make sense? And when Nyx showed up, were her actions fitting?

4992690
I'd say things flowed pretty well and since chapter 9 and 10 happen at the same time you're given a bit of leeway to keep things a little mysterious. It might initially confuse people but once they read chapter 10 it'll be "oh, so that's what was going on."
I think Nyxs' reaction was pretty much spot on, surprise and relief to see some friendly face after everything that's happened, it would naturally override her other worries over what's gone on in the bayou. I'd say her reaction was entirely appropriate for the situation. if I was going to add anything I think I'd have Twilight asking if Nyx was okay, since she just talking about her and it's still fresh in her mind. Naturally Nyx will brush her off and we can delve into later when they're alone.

4992711
Very good. Yeah, the chapter 10 version of that scene doesn't go into all the "stuff" so much, and it stays in Nyx's head for the most part, where the ch9 version was all Luna's perspective. Nyx is pretty overwhelmed because despite knowing she's going to run into those two, the emotions hit her unexpectedly. I found that a bit of a challenge because most of the emotion is Nyx's, and yet we're seeing it from Luna's perspective, so a lot of it is simply not there. You'll see when I post ch10 for review how the change of focus keeps it from being redundant.

Good idea with Twilight, btw. She ought to say something along those lines, since she'd see that Nyx is upset.

As for Fluttershy, hopefully her comings and goings seem fairly transparent in ch9 but they'll all have purpose once ch10 comes to light. I had to map out the precise times of every event in chronological order so that they'd all match up. Hopefully it was successful.

4990162 , Well... that was something.

4995614
It was, wasn't it. What did you think?

Just reread this chapter. I think I'm going to post this draft to the public forum unless anyone has some significant concerns about it.

Okay, a bit delayed from my last editing, but I've begun working my way through Chapter 10. Going to get into my first major note, which Recon did warn about, was the scene with Spell Nexus.

There are two aspects to the scene. The first is the one Recon warned me about, which is Spell Nexus's personality. There are some aspects of Nexus's personality that rings true. The intelligence, the pride in his work, the organce juice . But there is something that seems off about him... and its how he describes his work. Spell Nexus did teach at some point in his career. He was a professor at Celestia's School before he became its headmaster. It feels like he'd be able to better explain how his framework works, even if he dumbs it down a bit further than Luna needs.

The second part of the scene that niggles me a bit is that Discord is being used, it feels, a bit as a Deus Ex. That the mega-spells were made possible because he gave Spell Nexus the answer before disappearing forever. If things were really not being that fun for him anymore, why would he give the ponies something that could make it a thousand times worse. Especially if his history as the previous Element of Magic proved that such a power could be vastly abused. I just can't see Discord's logic for giving up that secret, especially considering where it leads. (If the mega-spell destruction of Equestria does still happen in this AU of the Fallout Equestria AU.)

Now, I realize this is trying to tie the lore your personally establishing with the known inventions and events of Fallout Equestria. It's an important thing that must be accounted for, and the answer can come from Discord... but in my personal opinion, Fluttershy should be somewhere in the... chain of evidence I guess is the best way for me to phrase it.

Perhaps it was during the final conversation between Fluttershy and Discord. He was packing his bags, metaphorically or literally, perhaps even trying to get Fluttershy to come with him. SHe refuses. She can't leave her friends. It saddens him, but he respects her and treasures her friendship too much to be angry. Yet he can see the way the world is going... and so he gives Fluttershy a parting gift. I could see that gift being a few things. perhaps it was the secret to unlimited magical power, the amplification spell. Perhaps the amplification spell was only part of a larger gift. A gift one that would allow Fluttershy to follow Discord if she changed her mind or let her live in a bubble reality where she wouldn't have to face the horrors of the reality that were to come. Still, Fluttershy has the gift, has the knowledge, and upon having her own conversation about Spell Nexus's struggles, she decides to share the information with Spell Nexus.

And I feel that better aligns with the events of Fallout Equestria. The mega-spells were developed by the ministry of peace, under Fluttershy's orders. Part of Fluttershy's tragedy in the original story is that she enabled the destruction of the world... but what if it was even worse than that? What if it wasn't just because she gave the order? What if it wasn't just because she had started the research? What if it was because she gave Spell Nexus the key... the thing only she had. The thing Discord entrusted to her in hopes of perhaps protecting her from the horrors of war, only for her to doom herself to greater pain by sharing that secret.

For those who have read Fallout Equestria, this will resonate a lot to see decisions Fluttershy made that lead to the megaspells, especially in your AU of the AU with your story's rules on magic and the nature of alicorns. That and... it just feels like that if Discord was going to leave a single parting gift of such magnitude before leaving forever, he'd give to Fluttershy, not Spell Nexus.

Beyond that, still going through the chapter on my second pass. More comments to come.

After the scene with Spell Nexus, we see two things from Twilight's ministry of varying importance. The first is talisman research and the second is the memory orb research.

In the first, it feels like another Deus Ex like we had with Discord. Its a fairly sudden Doctor Who introduction into the timeline that seems to be there purely for the sake of the reference and to explain what happened to the Crystal Empire. You also seem to be setting something up for a time manipulation talismen that may end up in Nyx's or someone else's hooves later in the story. Still, it feels like your trying to explain too much at a single time, considering how much time was spent explaining the megaspell research and what happened with Discord. The details themselves aren't bad, but I'd almost say you should push this reveal back further into the story, to perhaps the point where the time talisman shows up again. That gives this scene and the Discord/Mega-spell explanation heavy scene some breathing room between one another considering that both feel like they are fairly important.

The second scene... well, now we're onto our third dose of heavy world building and unlike humor, this kind of stuff doesn't always go well in threes. That and this scene suffers a bit from talking-head stuff. What I mean by "talking-head" is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of action for all the talking between the characters. All we see from Characters is their facial expressions, very small actions to help distinguish who is speaking, but otherwise there are long stretches of a lot of dialogue. There are times when people will just stand and talk to one another, but it feels like some of this needs to be broken up.

To be honest, this is something that I feel is an undercurrent of your style, Recon. The story reads, sometimes, like a radio play where the characters are talking everything out in very great detail, as if the reader has no means of seeing their face or their actions or even getting glimpses into their thoughts. That's a fine style too. It's completely valid, but that does mean that you have to take some extra care to be mindful of when it reaches an extreme. I highlighted a section in the memory orb scene where, for a full page, it's dialogue and actions focused only on the head. As I quipped in the comment in the google doc, Luna and Twilight could be disembodied heads and that one section would largely not change.

5466199

Spell Nexus did teach at some point in his career. He was a professor at Celestia's School before he became its headmaster. It feels like he'd be able to better explain how his framework works, even if he dumbs it down a bit further than Luna needs.

Could you elaborate on that? I'm not totally sure what you're getting at.

The second part of the scene that niggles me a bit is that Discord is being used, it feels, a bit as a Deus Ex

I assume you're referring to 'Deus ex Machina', although that doesn't apply here. A Deus ex Machina refers to when an author writes themselves into a corner and is forced to contrive a solution by introducing a previously-unseen character, ability or plot device. That isn't quite what's happening here.
What I suspect you're getting at is that the scene feels forced, which is true. The thing is, removing Discord from the story is a narrative necessity. His presence makes an ongoing war absurd, since he could snap his fingers and stop it at any time. Recon's done his best, but he can't come up with a compelling reason for that not to happen, and so this somewhat contrived situation is the result.

Amplification spell given to Fluttershy rather than Nexus.

An excellent suggestion.

Too much worldbuilding in too short a time.

Talking heads.

These ring true, actually.
5269496

5468356

In regards to the first thing, I guess I could see Nexus's explanation of how his framework works being more... academic, like he's falling into his old teaching habits under the pressure of the situation. Explaining things simply, even though Luna is very capable of understanding the more complex concepts. It also can be a source of contention at the start of the conversation where Luna points out that she understanding something Nexus is struggling to explain in more simplistic terms.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that Nexus could use a little more action to describe the framework, showing his past as a teacher as well as breaking up the dialogue in the scene a bit. Visual aids to help Luna (who doesn't need it) and the readers (who might.)

5466199

Alright, this is some good stuff. Let's dig in with Nexus first.

There are some aspects of Nexus's personality that rings true. The intelligence, the pride in his work, the orange juice .

Hehe. Yeah, and I also really wanted to capture what I felt would be a realistic level of intimidation. Nexus directly opposed the rulership of Equestria. Despite that he had no agency during this time, he still felt quite guilty, as you showed in Winter Bells. In fact, you really played that up. If he felt that way, I wager he'd be very intimidated by the princesses. He would refer to them formally, even in casual conversations. His intimidation combined with his self-confidence makes for a rather interesting moment between him and Luna.

Spell Nexus did teach at some point in his career. He was a professor at Celestia's School before he became its headmaster. It feels like he'd be able to better explain how his framework works, even if he dumbs it down a bit further than Luna needs.
...
Explaining things simply, even though Luna is very capable of understanding the more complex concepts. It also can be a source of contention at the start of the conversation where Luna points out that she understanding something Nexus is struggling to explain in more simplistic terms.

I have mixed feelings about this.

One thing I must manage is Luna's internal thought process through the entire scene. If Nexus were to launch into some kind of teaching mode, Luna would be instantly irritated by it. I'd probably have to show this in her internal monologue, which is already dangerously long. A curt "get to the point, please" may be appropriate if he begins talking simplistically to her, but then that also might further intimidate Nexus.

It may be a good way to begin their discussion. I wouldn't want it to extend the scene or change the tone too much. I also don't want to lose sight of the fact that these are two mental giants discussing advanced magical theory.

There is also some important Luna characterization going on here. Luna's historical role has been as a guardian of sorts of the mortals. She can get reactive if she perceives a threat. Which she does in this scene. Luna's fear of what Nexus has uncovered is what provides the tension of the scene.

Unlike the time talisman or memory orb projects, the purpose behind the Nexus/Luna discussion is actually to provide exposition for the metaphysics model and some of the backstory as well. The megaspell project itself has very little to do with this story. I'm toying with the idea of applying it as a sort of "global preventative cure" for the plague down the road, but even that is not entirely necessary.

So the scene achieves several things with Nexus. It provides him with some much-needed characterization. It introduces the concept of "laws of arcane dynamics" which cannot be broken. This is just like our laws of thermodynamics in real life. It explains that there are limits to how powerful a magical spell can be and that all conventional magic is drawn from the Lifestream. It then proceeds to break these limitations by explaining a bit about the Aether and how this 2nd source of power is a whole other realm of possibilities which conventional magic cannot even hold a candle to.

On another Nexus-related note, I think it may be really cool to explore what kind of relationship Nexus and Nyx have at this stage. I don't currently have anything planned, but if we were to put that into the story, it would likely fit well into act two. Would he feel awkward around Nyx even at this stage? Would they have a sort of father/daughter relationship? Would he want to avoid her because she reminds him of his past sins?

There is also a tug of war going on over Nyx. Both sides have good intentions, but each has a very different perspective on what Nyx ought to embrace. This conflict is what chapter twelve is all about. Having said that, it would be really interesting to see where Nexus would fit on that spectrum. Would he play the neutral party? Would he be afraid of the consequences and suggest she holds back? Or would he, in his desire to prevent further tragedy in the war, recommend she dive forward? I can see valid arguments for both sides from Nexus' perspective. Further exploration is needed.

Oh also, for what it's worth, I have a discussion thread called Let's Meet Spell Nexus if we want to explore these things further.

5468356

5466199

It's worth mentioning that Spell Nexus doesn't have anything to do with the climax of this story. His megaspell project doesn't solve the plot. The actual climax is solved by the efforts of... eight? I think eight characters who all contribute something vital. I realized mid-reply (below) that this was likely a big factor in your feedback.

Okay, Discord. Let's answer these concerns about him.
Sigh. This ended up being longer than I intended. Sorry about that.

The second part of the scene that niggles me a bit is that Discord is being used, it feels, a bit as a Deus Ex.

Uh, yeah I'm gonna echo Q here and mention that a Deus ex Machina is essentially a "pull a solution out of my ass at the end of the story because I forgot to set the solution up in advance" maneuver. The main calling card of a Deus Ex is the absence of any foreshadowing in the first and second acts regarding how the climax will play out. Believe me, I've got the climax covered. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Discord.

What I've actually got here is the opposite. Rather than saying "Hey, Discord solves the plot" (which would be cheap and easy, and his very presence all but demands it)... I'm actually getting rid of him in the cleanest way I can think of because Discord wrecks plots. Imagine for a moment, Discord existing as an ally in Past Sins itself. Discord could have easily solved the entire plot of the story. He could have instantly removed the monsters from Ponyville. He could have cured the Children of Nightmare from the 'blessing'. He could have fixed all of it. This is the dilemma of having such a powerful ally in a story. So he has to go.

But I might as well have him contribute something useful as he leaves.

I'll concede that you guys are right in saying that I did force the issue with Discord being gone. It was a simple solution, but if there is a better one, I'm willing to rework it. I'll be working on a new thread regarding Discord and his impact on the story right after I'm done replying here.

If things were really not being that fun for him anymore, why would he give the ponies something that could make it a thousand times worse.

The amplification spell wasn't ever meant to produce weapons. Nexus and Fluttershy were intending to turn it into a mass healing device - which was successful in canon Fo:E. So Discord could not have known it would end up becoming nukes, essentially.

Especially if his history as the previous Element of Magic proved that such a power could be vastly abused. I just can't see Discord's logic for giving up that secret

A valid point if Discord considers it an abuse. Chances are probably quite good that Discord would trust Fluttershy not to abuse great power. Likewise, if he got to know Nexus, he'd find out that this pony is more or less a pacifist now. The abuse came from Discord's own personality and style, plus the fact that he was pissed at Luna some 5000 years ago. Still, it's a good argument that Discord would probably not give the amplification spell itself to anyone. But he might have included it inside something else.

(If the mega-spell destruction of Equestria does still happen in this AU of the Fallout Equestria AU.)

Don't think I haven't wrestled with this question many, many times over the course of this project. There are lots of times I regret tethering myself to Kkat's universe. And it seems to be happening more often these days.

Having Nyx prevent the apocalypse would be incredibly cheesy. But more things change in this story than simply Nyx's presence. It would not be difficult to have this story alter Fo:E history enough to prevent the megaspell holocaust. I'm just concerned with how that would affect all the Fo:E fans who happen to like this story. I imagine it would not go well.

But on the flip side, what does that mean for Nyx and her future? I have a nice solution to that, actually. Nyx will be fine. But the problem is that it leaves most everyone else whom she loves to face annihilation by balefire. And that's not a very happy ending. Kkat made sure nearly everyone dies horribly. I don't like it. I can solve it. But it's not a good idea. And I don't like that either. At this point, I still need the Fo:E backstory. It's a fetter I must bear.

Now, I realize this is trying to tie the lore your personally establishing with the known inventions and events of Fallout Equestria. It's an important thing that must be accounted for, and the answer can come from Discord... but in my personal opinion, Fluttershy should be somewhere in the... chain of evidence I guess is the best way for me to phrase it.

Okay, I see what's happened here. You've made the very reasonable assumption that the megaspell project is linked to the story's climax. It isn't. This is just some expository dialogue that seeds parts of the backstory and provides hints regarding the Aether and how magic works in this universe. There is a whole lot to reveal, so I must sprinkle the exposition all through the story. This is a really good time to provide these magical concepts because we get much deeper into that in only three more chapters.

What I'd like to know is if your concerns about Discord, Nexus, and the amplification spell remain after considering this.

Perhaps it was during the final conversation between Fluttershy and Discord. He was packing his bags, metaphorically or literally, perhaps even trying to get Fluttershy to come with him. SHe refuses. She can't leave her friends. It saddens him, but he respects her and treasures her friendship too much to be angry. Yet he can see the way the world is going... and so he gives Fluttershy a parting gift.

I really like this idea. Expanding on Discord's relationship with Fluttershy is really good character building, and I'll most likely include this somehow. The question is, what form does it take? Is it necessary or plausible to have this be how Nexus gets that spell? Why wouldn't Discord just give Flutters a recall button?

A gift one that would allow Fluttershy to follow Discord if she changed her mind or let her live in a bubble reality where she wouldn't have to face the horrors of the reality that were to come. Still, Fluttershy has the gift, has the knowledge, and upon having her own conversation about Spell Nexus's struggles, she decides to share the information with Spell Nexus.

I'm not opposed to this idea. I'm just not sure it's necessary. Trying to keep it plausible and as simple as possible. If Discord gave her the formula, knowing that she couldn't solve it herself, then why did he give it to her at all? Would he even want her to have someone solve it? Would he assume she'd give it to Nexus? Or the alicorns maybe? Would that make any more sense than just giving it to Nexus himself and maybe instructing him to keep Fluttershy safe?

Actually that sounds rather interesting. What if Fluttershy outright refused to join him. Then Discord goes to Nexus in secret and offers him a spell which will transport Fluttershy someplace safe, should things go to hell. Nexus then analyzes the spell and discovers the amplification spell buried within. He then spends years trying to isolate it and make it useful for other things. It also maintains the tragedy by having Fluttershy and Nexus be mutually responsible for what ended up being their nuclear program. Luna is also involved, as she recognizes the risk at the end of her tour. She stresses the importance of keeping this under wraps. She decides to entrust that task to Fluttershy herself.

5466242

Its a fairly sudden Doctor Who introduction into the timeline that seems to be there purely for the sake of the reference and to explain what happened to the Crystal Empire.

This isn't a Deus Ex. It's a planned element of the story's plot. But yes, the time artifact is a plot device of sorts, since it sets many things in motion by removing the Crystal Empire from the story. Originally, my motivation was to preserve Fo:E canon, which did not include the city or Shiny or Cadence. Or changelings. Yes, I put them there to get rid of them as well. But it ended up turning into so much good drama with having Flitter be the last changeling that I love the decision.

Making the Doctor Who reference is slightly cheesy, I'll admit. But not really any more cheesy than the fact that he is, essentially, the Doctor in canon MLP. Including him in the story's history and shipping him with Derpy has produced some rather nice results with Dinky and her unique ability. The fact that Dinky is the Doctor's daughter is actually fairly significant to the plot because it accounts for her ability to break the story's metaphysical rules for mortal ponies. I'll explain all that in time. But tossing Doctor Whooves into the story is much more than an arbitrary reference.

And the time artifact itself is much more than an explanation for what happened to the Crystal Empire. Somewhere in act two, Nyx gets a PipBuck upgrade which will install the early S.A.T.S. prototype. It won't be the go-to combat mechanism that Kkat turned it into. But it'll at least be there as an option. I haven't decided how often to have her make use of it. Regardless of all that, though, is the fact that this time talisman Ebonstar makes from it shows up in a very important one-shot event much later in the story.

Still, it feels like your trying to explain too much at a single time, considering how much time was spent explaining the megaspell research and what happened with Discord.

You're probably right in that I've given too much for the reader to take in all at once. I need to consider this and maybe tighten Luna's tour up some. The problem is, pretty much everything which is revealed needs to be provided at some point. But maybe not in act one. Some of this could be pushed to act two quite nicely. Act two is currently the most "squishy" part of the story, as I don't have all the details locked down yet.

So the question becomes, what can I push forward to act two?

I suppose it's best to prioritize. The memory orb project becomes quite relevant by chapter twelve, so I need that to be introduced here. However, much of the Twilight/Luna dialogue can probably be postponed. The fact that something is up with Everfree is important to support the discussion in chapter eleven, so I'm not sure I can get rid of that either.

All the stuff with Ebonstar and the time talisman can probably be pushed to act two. We've had talismans in the story since chapter one without really explaining how they work or how they are made. I might be able to skip that whole part of the tour.

The meeting with Nexus is mostly for magical exposition as I've already mentioned. I don't really think it needs to go, especially since much of chapter ten's timing depends on it staying the way it is.

Removing the talisman part of the tour also messes with chapter ten's timing, but probably not as critically. The thing is, it's still a fair bit of work to shuffle all that stuff around. I'm not quite sure what the best solution is.

this scene suffers a bit from talking-head stuff. What I mean by "talking-head" is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of action for all the talking between the characters. All we see from Characters is their facial expressions, very small actions to help distinguish who is speaking, but otherwise there are long stretches of a lot of dialogue.

Ahh, yes you're definitely right about that. Glad you spotted it. To be honest, the worst parts of the "talking heads" thing was the most recently added dialogue (the part you highlighted). I simply added what was said without really working it into the scene with all the physical cues you noticed are missing. And for whatever reason, we've not caught this in the editing process so far. That's probably due to the fact that we've all seen Magical Ministry Tour so many times that we're kind of numb to its flaws. This chapter goes all the way back to October 2014 and still bears almost the exact same structure as it originally did. I'll see about cleaning that up.

The story reads, sometimes, like a radio play where the characters are talking everything out in very great detail, as if the reader has no means of seeing their face or their actions or even getting glimpses into their thoughts.

The older the prose, the more you'll find that to be the case. Most of the oldest prose has been rewritten, but a fair bit of it remains. Originally, I had no concept of these things you mention. I've since learned how to make a chapter flow well. Chapter ten (the one you're reading currently) is most likely going to be a pleasant surprise for you in terms of flow and character interactions. That's much closer to my current skill level than chapter nine which is really a dinosaur with tacked on edits at this point. Also, originally the tour happened simultaneous to the zebra battle where Nyx gets hurt. Shifting it two days forward to blend with Nyx's arrival in Canterlot is a much more recent redesign. But the tour itself is mostly original stuff with additions and tweaks.

Still, I'm trying to learn how to prevent this talking heads thing. It's a work in progress.

Thanks again for all the great feedback. There's clearly significant changes to be made to this chapter before publishing.

5466242
5468905

From Pen Stroke:

The story reads, sometimes, like a radio play where the characters are talking everything out in very great detail, as if the reader has no means of seeing their face or their actions or even getting glimpses into their thoughts. That's a fine style too. It's completely valid, but that does mean that you have to take some extra care to be mindful of when it reaches an extreme. I highlighted a section in the memory orb scene where, for a full page, it's dialogue and actions focused only on the head. As I quipped in the comment in the google doc, Luna and Twilight could be disembodied heads and that one section would largely not change.

YEP It is hard , almost impossible to exagerate how astoundingly Recon has improved as a writer since this project began, but this remains perhaps his biggest issue, ... he completely neglects body language which is really weird when his characters are literally hyper-expressive cartoons. The first time I ever saw a mention of MLP:FIM outside of internet memes was in a New York Times article back in 2011 about Autistic couples. One of the autistic persons interviewed mentioned loving the show because the hyper-expressive faces allowed him to correctly read emotion for the first time in his life. These are creatures that literally wear their hearts on their sleeves and are unable to hide their emotions, in fact just about any emotional state causes their faces to contort into expressions that reveal their emotions. Indeed their character designs were created ( especially thanks to their huge eyes and elastic faces to say nothing of the way their ears are used in the show) to reveal emotion VISUALLY to the viewer. And yet none of this mugging ever makes it through to the writing. Now of course a cartoon is a visual method of storytelling and a novel is a verbal one, but recon's characters seem too often to stop being garishly colorful cartoons and become disembodied brains. In a way this is quite appealing to me personally as a reader, as it tones down the goofyness and makes his work a cerebral experience which I personally appreciate.... but it does kind of run against the ethos of the show and the world of the show itself.

5469219
I think the spell used to send the Crystal Empire into the future offers the best solution as to where the Megaspell framework originated. Nexus could have easily made the breakthrough into this by studying the spell and its after-effects since the amount of energy released would have been astronomical and left a massive footprint. If Discord was lost when the city vanished as well it would be two birds with one stone

I'm not against the Fluttershy idea, I think it would be a great angle to explore, but it's important to remember that Fluttershy isn't a big focus in the story. If we delve too deeply into it, we might get sidetracked from the plot-important stuff since the Megaspells and Fluttershy's decisions regarding them are events that occur further in the future.

All the stuff with Ebonstar and the time talisman can probably be pushed to act two. We've had talismans in the story since chapter one without really explaining how they work or how they are made. I might be able to skip that whole part of the tour.

I think here is a good place to at least introduce Ebonstar since he becomes important later on, simply showing talisman manufacturing would be enough and give FO:E fans something to geek over The time-talisman can be left for a later date, probably when Nyx has SATS installed on her Pipbuck or something like that.

5469467

Yeah, I'm not trying to make a cartoon or hyperbolic expressions of emotion. Realism (at least in the context of the fantasy universe) is the goal. It fits the tone. But the characters need to be more animated within the prose.

Perhaps if I had someone volunteer to create an unabridged comic of my entire story...
I jest. No, but seriously, that would be awesome.

Still, it's a work in progress. Taking a look at chapter ten, I think that may actually be one of my favorites in terms of how well the characters animate and flow with one another and with the scenes. MMT by contrast has been a thorn in my side since I first drafted it. It's a lot better than it was, but Pen is right in that those talking heads scenes need to have much more personality and motion. The mind's eye must be able to track the characters as they interact.

5469479

I think the spell used to send the Crystal Empire into the future offers the best solution as to where the Megaspell framework originated.

Really?? I hadn't thought of that angle. Since I'm already using the time artifact elsewhere in the story, wouldn't basing the megaspells on that be stretching its use a bit much?

If Discord was lost when the city vanished as well it would be two birds with one stone

Sure, dump him on my sequel.
Granted, it could work I suppose. I mean, the environment where they all show up is so alien that he might just fit right in. Maybe he goes his own way and leaves Nyx and Cadence to handle the Crystal Empire.

Fluttershy isn't a big focus in the story. If we delve too deeply into it, we might get sidetracked from the plot-important stuff

True. If it gets included, it will be an isolated mention rather than something the story dwells on. I think it would add some character to Discord's departure.

I think here is a good place to at least introduce Ebonstar since he becomes important later on, simply showing talisman manufacturing would be enough and give FO:E fans something to geek over The time-talisman can be left for a later date, probably when Nyx has SATS installed on her Pipbuck or something like that.

That's not a bad idea. So rather than removing the scene, just selectively remove bits which aren't needed in the story yet. That does have the side effect of postponing the reveal of what happened to the Crystal Empire though. Not that this is a bad thing. But people will be wondering what that was all about for quite some time. I know folks in the comments section a few days ago are thinking that this is the main plot.

5470306 I think the key is not to have them be kinetic for the sake of kineticism ( they are not supposed to be Spastic amphetamine freaks after all) so " busyness" is NOT what I am talking about here.

I think more helpful would be to think about how their bodies should reflect their emotional states is the character self confident and holding their head up high? or are they down beat and staring at their floor? what are their eyes doing? what about those expressive ears that can flatten against the skull in fear or embarrasment or swivel around in curiosity or alertness? what about their tails? if they have wings , well that is a whole universe of new expressive possiblities therein... I am not saying you haven't done this all ( rereading the final published form of chapter five I spotted some good usage of swiveling ears) just... do it more.

Maybe you should watch some moments of the show that you recall being particularly emotional and taking notes about how the characters having the emotion look and move. Then when you are writing an emotional moment in your story ( not the heat of battle obviously, I mean more like a conversation or some other scenario where their environment doesn't already force them to move in a specific way) think to yourself... "how would these emotions look on my characters, how would their bodies visibly reflect their emotions" and then write those descriptions in.

5470391
Yep. That's all stuff I pay much closer attention to in recent chapters. Like... chapter ten onwards. The main problem is in converting this old prose to include those nonverbals. I'm sure it will come together before publishing. I just have other things I need to focus on at the moment. I am happy, though, to get the heads up about this so far in advance. It allows me to make sure there's time to fix it. And familiarity blindness is a real factor too. After reading a chapter draft so many times, it gets really hard to spot problems fresh eyes can see.

5466199
Well, this is convenient... Seems I've already made a thread about Discord and addressed his role in the story. The big missing piece is that I didn't really consider the relational impact of his departure. Nor did I expand on his motivations for leaving. There's also idiot balls and plot holes to fix.

I've just compiled all the current thoughts regarding Discord's departure into a new post in that thread. I think this fixes all the currently identified problems. See what you think.

5468356
5469479