Ok this is from onlyanorthernsong. He raises a valid point about the cliffhanger. Pasting here, then I will make my reply below.

I pasted this here so we could all weigh in on the issue, and come up with a proper resolution.

okay so you are not going to like what i have to say about this. This final climax is exciting and very well written. it is one hell of a cliffhanger. it is also COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL AND UNNECESSARY. I can think of no reason whatsoever like, at all, why this scene even happens.

let us assume that Daisy Nyx et al are on a " search and destroy" mission where they kill all zebras they encounter ( which doesn't seem to be their mission at all but hold on) why not wait until they leave this area and attack them later at a point of their convenience?

It appears to me that the reason they attack is to stop the place from being incinerated, one assumes with the purpose of preserving the massacre site as forensic evidence. Okay, so, how does barging in and provoking a PITCHED BATTLE in the middle of the campsite in any way help to achieve the goal of PROTECTING it for forensic purposes? yeah all that combat,kicked up dirt, bullet casings, blood, and new zebra bodies certainly wont pollute the site!

also you made it very clear that the body of the apparent attacker was BURIED and wrapped in preservation spell. Seems to me like it should survive a napalm attack just fine! So what is the worst case scenaro here if Nyx and Co do not intervene? well the surface level forensice evidence gets incinerated. the body which is buried, of the apparent attacker, is just fine though.

what is the worst case scenario if they DO intervene? well they cause a pitched battle contaminating the evidence and then they get caught up in a place where they know a massive NAPALM LIKE THERMOBARIC EXPLOSION is about to take place, one that will KILL THEM ALL( except maybe Nyx)

A very cursory cost benefit analysis should lead Nyx Daisy and co to conclude that the risks vastly outweigh the benefits, thus causing them to clear out so as not to be reached by the explosion, then sneak in once the zebras disperse and the explosion is over, and dig out the body.

what you are doing here is what TvTropes refers to as having your characthers " carry the Idiot Ball". This is when your usually intelligent charachters suddenly become very stupid just so a specific plot event happens. The classic cliche example is when the heroes in a horror movie look at each other inside the big spooky building where they know the serial killer is and say " let's split up".

here Nyx says "we have to stop them" and NEVER EXPLAINS what is so urgent that they need to rush into a place where they know there are LITERAlLY TICKING TIME BOMBS about to go off.

AND NO ONE CALLS HER OUT ON THIS SHIT. They just waltz in there and start massacring zebras that never attacked them, provoking a pitched battle that totally contaminates a crime scene they are supposedly trying to preserve getting them trapped and pinned down in combat in a place THAT IS ABOUT TO GO BOOM... AND THEY KNEW IT WAS ABOUT TO GO BOOM BEFORE THEY WENT IN THERE !!!!

are they trying to commit suicide? I mean seriously! all of a sudden Nyx is quite literally too dumb to live!
Look this is so contrived it is incredibly obvious that you are literally just manufacturing conflict where they should not be any. If your charachters have to become idiots in order for a scene to work.... well that scene just doesn't work.
we are going to have to work on some motivation here for Nyx to do this.

I suggest that it would resolve this issue quite nicely if the Zebras were busy getting started with the cleansing and then Sage (or even some other pony) stumbles into the mess. Nyx would be like 'PROTECT THE PONIES' and would definitely dive in without considering the consequences.

Ok. Well, I was kind of hoping nobody would notice. I did see this conundrum after writing it. I was thinking about how they were trying to prevent the explosion and it ended up happening anyway.

Yes, they were trying to prevent the explosion, and yes they failed. I guess that's a problem, but realistically, people fail in attempts to prevent a disaster all the time. That's not terribly implausible. If we have our heroes succeed in everything they try to do, that pushes Mary Sue into the situation.

So let's dissect this.

It appears to me that the reason they attack is to stop the place from being incinerated, one assumes with the purpose of preserving the massacre site as forensic evidence. Okay, so, how does barging in and provoking a PITCHED BATTLE in the middle of the campsite in any way help to achieve the goal of PROTECTING it for forensic purposes? yeah all that combat,kicked up dirt, bullet casings, blood, and new zebra bodies certainly wont pollute the site!

I think it's safe to say that the ponies weren't planning on dusting for prints. Preserving the site was probably not quite their main motivation for trying to stop the zebras' plan. As you mentioned, the body is buried and safe. Sure it'd be nice to preserve the rest but Nyx already documented it on her PipBuck, so it's no big loss.

what is the worst case scenario if they DO intervene? well they cause a pitched battle contaminating the evidence and then they get caught up in a place where they know a massive NAPALM LIKE THERMOBARIC EXPLOSION is about to take place, one that will KILL THEM ALL( except maybe Nyx)

This is good logic, and I agree that Nyx's motivation should be spelled out clearly. I do think it's important to make sure that Nyx isn't portrayed as the wisest pony even though she's clearly very intelligent and passionate. Allow me to quote a portion of Chapter 6 here for clarification. Luna and Twilight are speaking:

-------
“Twilight… don’t be so protective. Nyx is every bit as strong as I am. She knows how to handle herself.”
“It’s not her strength I’m worried about. It’s her discernment. You do remember she has only been with us fifteen years.”

-------

And we know what smart kids with no discernment do, don't we? They act impulsively. But you're still right in that it's a bit too impulsive. I might need to add something to tip Nyx over the edge and properly motivate her to suddenly charge in like that.

Also, she's confident she can prevent the explosion. She doesn't know that it's at risk of going off anyway if she surprisingly attacks the leader holding the bomb.

A very cursory cost benefit analysis should lead Nyx Daisy and co to conclude that the risks vastly outweigh the benefits, thus causing them to clear out so as not to be reached by the explosion, then sneak in once the zebras disperse and the explosion is over, and dig out the body.

Sometimes in the heat of the moment, a cost/benefit analysis isn't something one has time for. Consider what you just said would be a better plan. The zebras detonate the site. They disperse. Which leaves thirteen zebras (including a highly skilled Commander) loose, hiding in the woods, clearly having the advantage. Nyx was up for one hell of a fight if the bomb didn't go off when it did. She would have won, but it would have been pretty difficult. I'd say the Commander's skills at combat would have potentially cost the life of one of Nyx's team if he was simply allowed to blow up the site and take cover, which completely destroys the advantage the ponies had which was the element of surprise.

In Fo:E, it's established that trained combat zebras are devastating in hoof combat, in that they know how to kick you in such a way that actually paralyzes you! Then they finish you off.

A quote from Fallout Equestria Chapter 26:
-------------------
She charged towards Daff.
The large buck saw her coming and crouched down, holding his ground. He drove both hindhooves towards
her in a powerful strike the moment she got within hoof’s reach.
But Xenith jumped. She leapt clean over Daffodil, striking the nape of his neck with a passing hoof. She
landed in a graceful roll that ended with her back on her hooves, facing him.
Daff seemed frozen in place. He stared, unmoving.
“Paralyzing Hoof!” Number Four announced. “Now that’s definitely Fallen Caesar Style.”
She could paralyze a pony with a hoofstrike? How the hell was I supposed to fight against that?
Daff toppled over. Xenith trotted up to the fallen pony, her sad gaze looking into his wide and fearful eyes.
The crowd began to chant and pound their hoofs. “Kill! Kill! Kill!”
-------------------

My point is that letting this guy go and losing the element of surprise would be a bad move. It adds to the risk/benefit ratio.

here Nyx says "we have to stop them" and NEVER EXPLAINS what is so urgent that they need to rush into a place where they know there are LITERAlLY TICKING TIME BOMBS about to go off.

Well, Rumble just pointed out that they aren't going to detonate it immediately. They need to disperse first or it would be a suicide mission. The Commander was preparing the egg in such a way that would have given his team time to get away. But they would have been very hard to round up after that.

Also, she never explains it because there isn't time to have a debate about it. She wanted to rush him before he activated it.

AND NO ONE CALLS HER OUT ON THIS SHIT. They just waltz in there and start massacring zebras that never attacked them, provoking a pitched battle that totally contaminates a crime scene they are supposedly trying to preserve getting them trapped and pinned down in combat in a place THAT IS ABOUT TO GO BOOM... AND THEY KNEW IT WAS ABOUT TO GO BOOM BEFORE THEY WENT IN THERE !!!!

They made a preemptive strike, yes. It's war. They are gonna kill zebras who have invaded Equestria.

Not terribly worried about the forensic scene. Body's buried, and that's enough.

This isn't simple explosive. The zebras need to prepare it and clear out. It's not armed yet, at the point Nyx rushes in, and her hope is to get it away from the leader before he has the chance to arm it. The site is not about to go boom, if Nyx can hurry. That's why she rushed in.

we are going to have to work on some motivation here for Nyx to do this.

All she needs really, to fix this, is some proper explanation of the above comments coming out in a brief dialog. Maybe even Daisy can explain to Nyx a few sentences earlier, that the Commander is about to prepare the balefire egg. It's going to take a moment for him to arm it, and he will set the timer with enough time to let his team get out of the blast zone. Then after that, probably about 60 seconds before it goes off.

Then, Nyx can make the impulsive decision to jump the leader before he gets the chance to arm it.

3728045

I guess that's a problem, but realistically, people fail in attempts to prevent a disaster all the time.

what disaster? I see no disaster here apart from the loss of the forensic evidence that is aboveground. The most important forensic evidence is safely belowground. there is no disaster here. You know what would be a disaster... going and literally standing next to the bomb about to go off...

I'd say the Commander's skills at combat would have potentially cost the life of one of Nyx's team if he was simply allowed to blow up the site and take cover,

and Nyx's actions have the high likelyhood of killing EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of Nyx's team, including her boyfriend and one of her best friends.

This isn't simple explosive. The zebras need to prepare it and clear out. It's not armed yet, at the point Nyx rushes in, and her hope is to get it away from the leader before he has the chance to arm it. The site is not about to go boom, if Nyx can hurry. That's why she rushed in.

you know how you had that guy who had the barrier that could close around things and nothing gets out, not even the shock wave of a grenade? THIS WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR THAT PARTICULAR CHECKHOV'S GUN TO FIRE.

step 1. wait for the zebras to disperse.

step2 Nyx and barrier guy teleport to right next to the balefire bomb.

step3 barrier guy wraps the balefire bomb up in his barrier thus muting its explosion.

Step 4 Nyx and co hunt down the remaining zebras at their leisure, and then dig up the body and fly out.
PROBLEM SOLVED.

Consider what you just said would be a better plan. The zebras detonate the site. They disperse. Which leaves thirteen zebras (including a highly skilled Commander) loose, hiding in the woods, clearly having the advantage. Nyx was up for one hell of a fight if the bomb didn't go off when it did. She would have won, but it would have been pretty difficult. I'd say the Commander's skills at combat would have potentially cost the life of one of Nyx's team if he was simply allowed to blow up the site and take cover, which completely destroys the advantage the ponies had which was the element of surprise.
In Fo:E, it's established that trained combat zebras are devastating in hoof combat, in that they know how to kick you in such a way that actually paralyzes you! Then they finish you off.
A quote from Fallout Equestria Chapter 26:
-------------------
She charged towards Daff.
The large buck saw her coming and crouched down, holding his ground. He drove both hindhooves towards
her in a powerful strike the moment she got within hoof’s reach.
But Xenith jumped. She leapt clean over Daffodil, striking the nape of his neck with a passing hoof. She
landed in a graceful roll that ended with her back on her hooves, facing him.
Daff seemed frozen in place. He stared, unmoving.
“Paralyzing Hoof!” Number Four announced. “Now that’s definitely Fallen Caesar Style.”
She could paralyze a pony with a hoofstrike? How the hell was I supposed to fight against that?
Daff toppled over. Xenith trotted up to the fallen pony, her sad gaze looking into his wide and fearful eyes.
The crowd began to chant and pound their hoofs. “Kill! Kill! Kill!”
-------------------
My point is that letting this guy go and losing the element of surprise would be a bad move. It adds to the risk/benefit ratio.

they would only lose the element of surprise if they where SPOTTED ( which is probably what I will recommend actually happens but that comes later) otherwise the ponies continue having the element of surprise. Do you know how hard it is to invade a country? DEFENDERS ALWAYS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE. there are several pegasi in this contingent. ZEBRAS CANNOT FLY. Put some of them there light machine guns on them pegasi, have Nyx use her horn beam weapon and then pick them off one by one from the sky. death from above. no need to come anywhere near a zebra hoof.

look lets look at a somewhat similar scenario. Assume the US army comes across some taliban setting up an IED. what do they do . They probably try to snipe them ( Nyx's horn beam weapon, come to think of it changelings seemed to have a horn beam weapon too so flitter can be useful too) or call in an air strike if the talibs are not in range of their guns ( pegasi with light machine guns and grenades like our buddy rumble) you know what they dont do? Physically try to push the bomb away from the taliban leader's hand. because No just No.

as for the bomb they set in a robot after it or try to disarm it remotely. above all they stay as far away from it as they can.

But you're still right in that it's a bit too impulsive. I might need to add something to tip Nyx over the edge and properly motivate her to suddenly charge in like that.

that something better be something like a little filly about to be sacrificed, because otherwise this would be Nyx acting way OOC. remember that Nyx is 80% and 20% roughly, in terms of temperament. Sheis not rainbowdash.

All she needs really, to fix this, is some proper explanation of the above comments coming out in a brief dialog

my first impression of how to fix this is as follows.

have Nyx argue in favor of jumping in.
Have Daisy, the experienced military mare who knows that the first rule of command is knowing when NOT to jump Leeroy Jenkins style into battle argue against it.

And then a previously unseen Zebra scout who was patrolling the perimeter around the campfire spots them.

Suddenly there is much a better target for that balefire bomb now that the Hated Nightmare Moon hereself has shown up...

3728295
Ok so let's focus on how to properly motivate Nyx to do what she did, get in the fight with the commander, have Rumble and Daisy shooting zebras, and the bomb going off with Nyx pretty close to it.

The details about what happened don't have to be changed (they were damn hard to write and I'd really rather not rewrite it). We just need to give Nyx a plausible reason to do what she did.

Besides, a very large portion of Chapter 6 is the aftermath of this explosion. I can't just go and change how it played out.

that something better be something like a little filly about to be sacrificed, because otherwise this would be Nyx acting way OOC.

Pawz suggested having Sage show up here, but I already have him somewhere else.

Your suggestion about having an abducted pony being tied up and included in the "cleansing" might be plausible! That's not a bad idea.

Ok, so here's the changes I need to make to fix all the above listed problems:

1: I need to make it more clear that the scout zebra was a scout from a different camp. This is tricky because I need a reason to have the characters say it with the evidence that they have. I can't just insert the fact without the characters knowing about it.

The reason this needs to be made clear is because apparently there's potential confusion about when the zebra camp was slaughtered.

For the record, the timeline is as follows:
* Parasite is deliberately placed in the supplies (blankets?) of the zebra camp by an agent of the story's main antagonist.
* One zebra becomes infected, and wanders off for a day or so, while the parasite matures in his neck.
* The zebra converts to a raider, returns to his camp in the middle of the night, and butchers everybody.
* A zebra leg ends up in the river that is right beside the camp on the other side of the path.
* The leg floats downstream a ways, and ends up caught in a sandbar pool.
* Sage comes along less than a day later and is alarmed by the camp. He investigates, and inspects the bodies. He becomes infected by the parasite which has multiplied in the original zebra raider's body.
* Sage continues to Withersberg but is highly disoriented and feeling the effects of the parasite on his nervous system. He stays in his room and begins his transformation to become a raider.
* Nyx's team discovers the leg, and proceeds to the town where they learn about Sage.
* A second zebra camp has lost contact with the first zebra camp and sends a scout to investigate.
* Nyx's team discovers the zebra camp site, and during their examination the scout shows up and freaks out, bolting back to her camp.

2: When the scout returns to her camp and informs her Commander, they go to the slaughtered camp site to cleanse it. But first, they capture a pony for the purpose of the ritual cleansing. Making a pony pay for what Nightmare Moon did, or whatever reason. They're superstitious pagans. They can have any number of reasons for their rituals.

The point here, is that an innocent civilian pony is sitting tied up right next to the Commander as he's giving his speech. Flitter can't free her, and I will have to work the tied up pony into the dialog when Flitter meets up with her hidden companions.

This, all by itself, gives Nyx a plausible reason to rush in and try to prevent the bomb from being armed. I can also include a bit of exposition from Daisy, explaining that he is going to attach a timer to the bomb to delay its fuse long enough for them to all get to a safe distance. Without the timer, the balefire egg will charge up its magical energy and detonate within roughly 20 seconds.

So when Nyx plows into the Commander hoping to prevent him from arming the device, it unexpectedly arms anyway, but without the timer. In the 20 seconds between when it hits the ground and when it blows up, Rumble has taken flight and killed two zebras with his battle saddle. Daisy has killed one and minorly wounded another. That leaves 10 zebras out of the original 13 still in the fight.

Rumble calls out to Nyx to run, and then saves Daisy just as she killed her 2nd zebra, so now 9 are still living.

The bomb goes off, killing five zebra soldiers that were still too close, plus the Commander. So that's an additional six dead leaving 3 zebras living but wounded after the blast.

So, to continue the timeline:

* Nyx's team returns to Withersberg to get ropes and a sack to haul the body.
* The entire second zebra camp learns of the slaughter, and comes to cleanse the site with balefire. Along the way, they acquire a civilian pony to use as a ritual sacrifice in the cleansing.
* Nyx's team returns to the camp site to discover the 2nd zebra squad has already arrived and is preparing to detonate the balefire egg.
* They notice the captured pony, and Nyx decides to attempt to stop the bomb by attacking the Commander outright.
* Bomb goes off, everything goes to hell. The captured pony is also killed.

-or-

Nyx manages to put the captured pony in the shield with herself, but when the shield fails, the pony dies anyway because Nyx is badass and can take a freight train slamming into her body and still live.

3728511 , Okay, all of that seems fine except for the very last line. How does Nyx being a bad*ss equal the reason the pony dies? The position of the word "because" in that sentence should be considered carefully.

3728333 I think you are making this too complex.simplify simplify simplify

there is no reason for a sacrifice. Just have zebras spot them first. It is completely reasonable, given that a squad of them just got massacred this in their sleep, that when the rest of the zebras get together they will establish a wider perimeter and put out extra lookouts.

Our heroes walk into this perimeter without noticing. flitter was doing a head count, throw in a line about how she can only count thirteen heads while she was certain there where more.

meanwhile have Nyx and Daisy argue about intervening. Nyx is in favor of interevening, Daisy is against it due to her experience. Very short convo because it will get interrupted when they are spotted by the zebra lookout.

there they were blaming NM for the massacre. and looky loo who they just spotted eavesdropping on the convo but NM herself!

at this point there are multiple logical pathways to Nyx battling the zebra commander hoofo a hoofo, with that balefire bomb set to go off and voila! your cliffhanger remains intact, and no one has to be an idiot or behave in a wildly OOC way for it to happen.

2: When the scout returns to her camp and informs her Commander, they go to the slaughtered camp site to cleanse it. But first, they capture a pony for the purpose of the ritual cleansing. Making a pony pay for what Nightmare Moon did, or whatever reason. They're superstitious pagans. They can have any number of reasons for their rituals.

The point here, is that an innocent civilian pony is sitting tied up right next to the Commander as he's giving his speech. Flitter can't free her, and I will have to work the tied up pony into the dialog when Flitter meets up with her hidden companions.

This, all by itself, gives Nyx a plausible reason to rush in and try to prevent the bomb from being armed. I can also include a bit of exposition from Daisy, explaining that he is going to attach a timer to the bomb to delay its fuse long enough for them to all get to a safe distance. Without the timer, the balefire egg will charge up its magical energy and detonate within roughly 20 seconds.

.

too freaking complicated. forget Nyx's motivation. forget the sacrifice. just have them spotted while they argue about intervening or not. Then all hell breaks loose. any number of pathways lead to the hated NM being attacked with the firebomb. voila ! your cliffhanger!

Another detail to be rewritten:

There needs to be more than one zebra initially infected. I'd say if three got infected, and together attacked their camp site, it's much more plausible that they would successfully butcher everybody before they died from their injuries.

Another option is to have Sage, the raider, show up at the zebra site while the cleansing ritual is taking place. Nyx sees him and is motivated to try and save him. But as a raider he's going to be attacking the zebras and causing a stir. I just have no idea how to write it in a plausible way because he's not a captive - he's an attacker. What happens to the egg at this point? And at what point would Nyx decide to rush in? Why would the egg still go off? etc.

3728511

: I need to make it more clear that the scout zebra was a scout from a different camp. This is tricky because I need a reason to have the characters say it with the evidence that they have. I can't just insert the fact without the characters knowing about it.

The reason this needs to be made clear is because apparently there's potential confusion about when the zebra camp was slaughtered.

For the record, the timeline is as follows:

* Parasite is deliberately placed in food rations of the zebra camp by an agent of the story's main antagonist.

* One zebra becomes infected, and wanders off for a day or so, while the parasite matures in his neck.

* The zebra converts to a raider, returns to his camp in the middle of the night, and butchers everybody.

* A zebra leg ends up in the river that is right beside the camp on the other side of the path.

* The leg floats downstream a ways, and ends up caught in a sandbar pool.

* Sage comes along less than a day later and is alarmed by the camp. He investigates, and inspects the bodies. He becomes infected by the parasite which has multiplied in the original zebra raider's body.

* Sage continues to Withersberg but is highly disoriented and feeling the effects of the parasite on his nervous system. He stays in his room and begins his transformation to become a raider.

* Nyx's team discovers the leg, and proceeds to the town where they learn about Sage.

* A second zebra camp has lost contact with the first zebra camp and sends a scout to investigate.

* Nyx's team discovers the zebra camp site, and during their examination the scout shows up and freaks out, bolting back to her camp.

It seems to me that the four days required for the massacre to be responsible for Sage's infection is too long . This massacre seems more recent than that.

The bodies seem too well preserved ( even accounting for the anti wildlife spell) and it seems incredible no one had run into it considering the site was literally next to the road ( road closed sign aside) refer to my note on this in the google docs for chapter 5.

Why would the egg still go off?

because they are trying to use it to kill the hated NM whom they blame for bringing the " destroyer" and " the age of the cannibals" back, Stop trying to make Nyx rush in. It's too complicated to pull it off in a manner that is not OOC. have the Zebras spot the ponies while they are debating whether or not to intervene and then have the ZEBRAS be the ones who launch the attack.

The bodies seem too well preserved ( even accounting for the anti wildlife spell) and it seems incredible no one had run into it considering the site was literally next to the road ( road closed sign aside) refer to my note on this in the google docs for chapter 5.

The anti-wildlife spell is also keeping wandering ponies away. The team felt the disturbing oppressive feel in the air prior to finding the site itself. Also, this is a minor path, not regularly travelled. Perhaps it is a fishing route or something. The usual path is to the South-East toward Gatorton. This is the South-West path.

Bodies don't really decompose proper until about the fourth day, barring insects and scavengers. Yes it'll reek, but it won't be putrified or anything. On the fourth day, the scene should still be observable.

If you don't think it's plausible, then help me find the adjustments to make that won't require rewriting entire chapters or long term plot elements.

because they are trying to use it to kill the hated NM whom they blame for bringing the " destroyer" and " the age of the cannibals" back

It's not a grenade you can chuck at your enemy and hope for the best. It's something that needs to be armed and deployed. They're not going to go "Hey there's Nightmare Moon! Kill her with this! She'll just stand around and wait for it to go off." Besides, the blast radius is so big they won't be able to stick around anyway to make sure she falls for it.

Stop trying to make Nyx rush in. It's too complicated to pull it off in a manner that is not OOC.

Nyx is cavalier when it comes to protecting ponies. If the zebras have a captive pony tied up ready to sacrifice her in this cleansing ceremony, I think it's in-character for Nyx to try and save her. She's not a timid filly anymore. She's been defending citizens against zebras for a while now.

have the Zebras spot the ponies while they are debating whether or not to intervene and then have the ZEBRAS be the ones who launch the attack.

From a tactical perspective, how does this work exactly?

* Nyx and team are discussing the zebra cleansing ceremony which is now underway.
* Some zebra spots them. "Look! It's Nightmare Moon!"
* Zebra commander puts the egg away and a fight ensues.
* Nyx and team (probably) win. It's 13 vs 3 but 2 of the 3 have a flight advantage. Didn't help Rumble much in Ch6 tho.
* Daisy is a sitting duck. Sorry Daisy. Doesn't look good for you.
* Zebras lying around dead. Egg is sitting there undetonated. Now what?

3728820 , I'm not sure what thoughts I can add to this that you wanted. I've only got vague ideas of how certain story elements should work and even those are open for re-evaluation. I'm here for grammatical support and a quick glance through only revealed a misspelling of the word "though" where you wrote it as "tho".

(Sorry, can't stay and chat. My classes are starting for the day.)

3729157

a quick glance through only revealed a misspelling of the word "though" where you wrote it as "tho".

LOL! That is so like you to point that out.

Truthfully, I shortened it so that it wouldn't word-wrap and mess up my column of * points.

But no, I wasn't asking for a critique on this thread. But rather, a critique on the cliffhanger in Ch5.

3728820
cavalier: adjective, showing a lack of proper concern; offhand.

Nyx is cavalier when it comes to protecting ponies. If the zebras have a captive pony tied up ready to sacrifice her in this cleansing ceremony, I think it's in-character for Nyx to try and save her. She's not a timid filly anymore. She's been defending citizens against zebras for a while now.

Yeah, no. Sorry. Complete disagreement. The Daughter of Twillight "Checklist" Sparkle is not ever Cavalier. Especially not if she has in fact been defending ponies for many years. The cavalier soldier gets killed during the first contact with the enemy. The cavalier commander gets the soldiers under his/ her command killed, which is worse still.

Nyx is certainly brave, and selfless and willing to risk HER OWN life ( not that of others) to save the ponies she is sworn to protect, which is all the ponies really.
Do not confuse bravery with cavalierness

so two things.
One , the pony whose infiltration of Canterlot Castle is studied by military officers whould think of something more subtle than a Leroy Jenkins style zerg rush.
Secondly, recall that one of the major charachter dilemmas that we are building up for Nyx is her guilt over killing. One of the fears is that Nyx, due to her guilt, might " freeze up" in battle , thus risking the lives of her comrades at arms. If we present her as a cavalier risk taker who barges into battle without thinking about the consequences here, well, it is going to be a very hard sell to present that dilemma in the future.

I STILL think that the easiest way to get this battle going is for the Zebras to discover them. the key here is that the bale fire device will be armed and counting down BEFORE the discovery. Perhaps even the zebras are clearing out when they literally walk into our heroes. then all hell breaks loose. given that the device is already counting down ( for the cleansing purposes) what is to stop the commander ( or any other zebra for that matter) from picking up the counting down incendiary device and rushing towards the hated Nightmare moon in a suicide bomber style attack? even if the attacker is gunned down before reaching Nyx, the egg is still about to go off and incinerate them all, voila! you have your cliffhanger back

The second slightly more complicated mechanism is the previously discussed pony sacrifice.

two keys here.
In order to make a sudden brash act by Nyx as not OOC as possible, the scenario has to be as jarring and horrible as possible. I am talking terrified filly screaming for her parents.
the more morally outrageous the sacrifice, the better.
Second Key, Nyx may not be experienced but she is extremely intelligent and a naturally CREATIVE warrior ( see her usurpation of Canterlot in past sins) She also places a priority not only in saving the innocent but in taking the brunt of the battle personally, because in her words " she can take it" and sparing the lives of her colleagues ( again see the battle against the monsters in Past Sins)

so here is how I think the dynamics would go down.

1.sacrificial little filly gets tied directly to the egg/ bomb thing.
2. Nyx and co argue about what to do. this gives the zebras enough time to arm the device and set the fuse.
3. Nyx breaks from her group and gets " line of sight" with the filly /bomb thing.
4. Nyx teleports to where the filly and the bomb she is attached to are. The sudden appearance of NM in the middle of the group confuses the zebras, allowing Nyx precious seconds to teleport out.
5. Nyx filly, and thermobaric incendiary device appear near daisy and Co. The rest of the crew runs over. Nyx thought she could easily cut through the bindings attaching filly and Incendiary device. BIG MISTAKE for whatever magical reason they are next to impossible to dispose of.
6. Big ruckus as everyone tries to remove filly from the bomb. It becomes obvious that the zebras have spotted them and are closing in. Flitter ( whose job seems to include making these kinds of pronouncements) declares " nyx this is about to go off, we have 75 seconds tops ( to avoid the cliche 60) RIGHT THEN zebra commander and co burst into the scene
7. CRY HAVOC AND UNLEASH THE DOGS OF WAR. ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.
8. here is were you insert your battle scene, which could basically work the same, except the bomb and filly are sitting somewhere ( or perhaps have been recaptured by the Zebra commander)
9. Bomb goes off, look there is your cliffhanger!

Whether or not the filly survives is up to you and depends on how angry you want Nyx to be in the immeadiate future. I suppose the most logical thing is for the filly to be incinerated and die ( along with the zebra commander, since the filly and the commander would be the closest to the device when it goes off)
The really cool thing that I like about the idea is that we tie the filly and the bomb TOGETHER. the reason this is cool is because in any other scenario the very first thing any sane millitary person would do is distance themselves from the explody thing ASAP, but by tying the bomb and the filly together, we know have a reason for Nyx et all to WANT to get close to the bomb ( in order to rescue the filly tied to it!)

Yeah, no. Sorry. Complete disagreement. The Daughter of Twillight "Checklist" Sparkle is not ever Cavalier. Especially not if she has in fact been defending ponies for many years. The cavalier soldier gets killed during the first contact with the enemy. The cavalier commander gets the soldiers under his/ her command killed, which is worse still.
Nyx is certainly brave, and selfless and willing to risk HER OWN life ( not that of others) to save the ponies she is sworn to protect, which is all the ponies really.
Do not confuse bravery with cavalierness

Ahh, ok fine. I will need to update my internal definition of cavalier. I had a different image in mind than its actual definition. I'm in agreement with you here.

Leroy Jenkins

Sorry I have no idea who that is.

Secondly, recall that one of the major charachter dilemmas that we are building up for Nyx is her guilt over killing. One of the fears is that Nyx, due to her guilt, might " freeze up" in battle

I think she's past the freezing up stage at this point. She hesitated to use deadly force during an incident some years prior, when she was Captain of the Royal Guard (briefly) which resulted in many of the Guard getting killed by zebras. I've hinted in a few places that Nyx is still emotionally distraught over that incident. She is not going to make the same mistake again.

If we present her as a cavalier risk taker who barges into battle without thinking about the consequences here, well, it is going to be a very hard sell to present that dilemma in the future.

I think I'm trying to portray her as seeing that she must take immediate action or somepony is going to die. She's slightly immature, and her discernment needs some work, so she isn't thinking out all the potential consequences of her actions like a seasoned commander would. She knows she is strong physically and she is willing to throw herself into the battle to save somepony. I think that part makes the idea here plausible.

As for the moral dilemma, yes she's still going to have to work through that. But as the story has already established, Nyx has been killing zebras and feeling conflicted over it for a while now. Ok, so that can keep happening until we can help Nyx resolve her dilemma. She can feel guilty later over having to take out the zebras in this instance. But clearly she needed to do it if somepony was about to be sacrificed in some sort of ritual. Nyx believes she can do it, and that's enough to get her moving.

I STILL think that the easiest way to get this battle going is for the Zebras to discover them. the key here is that the bale fire device will be armed and counting down BEFORE the discovery. Perhaps even the zebras are clearing out when they literally walk into our heroes. then all hell breaks loose. given that the device is already counting down ( for the cleansing purposes) what is to stop the commander ( or any other zebra for that matter) from picking up the counting down incendiary device and rushing towards the hated Nightmare moon in a suicide bomber style attack? even if the attacker is gunned down before reaching Nyx, the egg is still about to go off and incinerate them all, voila! you have your cliffhanger back

Oh my. Now that is a compelling alternative. I shall have to consider this carefully. It would take a good amount of additional detail to the battle scene, but that's not a bad thing.

I still like the idea of Nyx plowing into an enemy in a desperate attempt to save somepony, and I don't think that's OOC for Nyx. It would be a hell of a lot easier to write in than your idea, but your idea is still good.

In order to make a sudden brash act by Nyx as not OOC as possible, the scenario has to be as jarring and horrible as possible. I am talking terrified filly screaming for her parents.
the more morally outrageous the sacrifice, the better.

I dunno, I think Nyx would save anypony, not just a crying filly. Especially if Flitter made it a point to convey what she had just heard the zebra commander saying about how he was going to sacrifice that pony. The pony could be crying and Flitter being a helpless observer. So then Flitter is distraught over this when she tells Nyx - who then makes the snap decision to do something.

Nyx may not be experienced but she is extremely intelligent and a naturally CREATIVE warrior ( see her usurpation of Canterlot in past sins) She also places a priority not only in saving the innocent but in taking the brunt of the battle personally, because in her words " she can take it" and sparing the lives of her colleagues

Ever play speed chess? It's a hell of a lot different than regular chess. The player is just as intelligent, but they are making snap decisions that are going to contain a lot of errors due to the time constraints. Nyx doesn't have time to formulate a complex battle strategy like she did in the infiltration of the Palace.

so here is how I think the dynamics would go down.
1.sacrificial little filly gets tied directly to the egg/ bomb thing.

Well, we don't need a sacrificial pony if the zebras are going to run into our heroes anyway. That's reason enough for the battle.

2. Nyx and co argue about what to do. this gives the zebras enough time to arm the device and set the fuse.
3. Nyx breaks from her group and gets " line of sight" with the filly /bomb thing.

They could have already started it, as you said, while the heroes are observing them. They are after all, just sitting there watching, wondering what to do next. It's plenty of time for the zebras to get their plan going if Nyx isn't going to just charge in.

4. Nyx teleports to where the filly and the bomb she is attached to are. The sudden appearance of NM in the middle of the group confuses the zebras, allowing Nyx precious seconds to teleport out.

Nyx doesn't teleport. At least I haven't considered giving her that ability at this stage.
If there were a sacrificial pony, Nyx would likely fly in at high speed to try and stop what was about to happen. This does seriously change the dynamics of the battle though, with Nyx who needs to be unaware of the bomb about to go off until Rumble warns her. I'd like for Rumble to be the one who notices it, just like I originally wrote. The problem with having it pre-armed is that our heroes are going to be pre-aware of the situation and nobody is going to potentially get caught in the blast. After all, it could go off any second. They don't know the timer length.

5. Nyx filly, and thermobaric incendiary device appear near daisy and Co. The rest of the crew runs over. Nyx thought she could easily cut through the bindings attaching filly and Incendiary device. BIG MISTAKE for whatever magical reason they are next to impossible to dispose of.
6. Big ruckus as everyone tries to remove filly from the bomb. It becomes obvious that the zebras have spotted them and are closing in. Flitter ( whose job seems to include making these kinds of pronouncements) declares " nyx this is about to go off, we have 75 seconds tops ( to avoid the cliche 60) RIGHT THEN zebra commander and co burst into the scene
7. CRY HAVOC AND UNLEASH THE DOGS OF WAR. ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.

Well, the whole point of the pony sacrifice is that it gives Nyx plausible reason to do exactly what I wrote her doing, with the exact same results - it doesn't have to be made more complicated (although it could be) by adding a live bomb they are trying to remove from the captive and then getting into a zebra battle simultaneously. That's one hell of a difficult scenario to depict in writing.

8. here is were you insert your battle scene, which could basically work the same, except the bomb and filly are sitting somewhere ( or perhaps have been recaptured by the Zebra commander)

Having the captive tied up is sufficient for the sacrifice from the zebras' perspective. It's a powerful bomb. Having it attached seems a bit much, although not out of the question. It does add a whole lot of complexity to the battle though, which I intended to take place in roughly 20 seconds. If I'm going to expand the battle with enough time to attempt detaching from the captive, then that's a lot of time where the zebras are going to be kicking our three heroes' asses in battle. Not only that, but nobody has any reason to be able to assume how long the bomb has before it goes off. The uncertainty factor would make their decision making extremely erratic.

Whether or not the filly survives is up to you and depends on how angry you want Nyx to be in the immeadiate future. I suppose the most logical thing is for the filly to be incinerated and die ( along with the zebra commander, since the filly and the commander would be the closest to the device when it goes off)

If I write in the captive situation, then yes I'd have her die and have that really upset Nyx. In Chapter 6 (you need to read this asap) I've got the aftermath of this explosion. Nyx is pretty upset about what she saw, with the zebras melting before her eyes, etc. Rumble suggests going into a memory (which they end up doing) and we get to see how that mechanism I've been hinting at since Chapter 2 actually works to help ground Nyx in her identity. But yeah before this point, Nyx is starting to get into an emotional panic because of what she saw during the explosion. All while Flitter is performing surgery on her. So she needs to calm down and fast.

I do think the sacrifice idea works well, and if I'm going to bother writing a captive into the scene, then I really don't need to alter how Nyx goes about trying to save her. All that business with pre-arming the device, teleporting, trying to detach it, prolonging the battle, etc. It just adds unnecessary difficulty in creating the scene.

The really cool thing that I like about the idea is that we tie the filly and the bomb TOGETHER. the reason this is cool is because in any other scenario the very first thing any sane millitary person would do is distance themselves from the explody thing ASAP, but by tying the bomb and the filly together, we know have a reason for Nyx et all to WANT to get close to the bomb ( in order to rescue the filly tied to it!)

I do agree with what you're saying here. If they were tied together, it could be a situation that increases the desperation for Nyx to try and detach it, even if she ultimately never gets the chance to do because the Commander is engaging her in advanced hoof combat while the thing is armed. She realizes it's about to go off and puts up her shield. She never had the chance to cut loose the pony.

As for motivation to get close to the bomb, well, if it's about to be used to sacrifice the pony, then that's motivation alone, no? Even if it was being held by the Commander and not attached directly to the pony, that still provides Nyx reason to body-slam him and try to prevent it from being armed in the first place. It's entirely plausible that Nyx would use this method in that scenario, to try and save the pony. Heck, to even tie up a potential loose end, the pony could be tied to something heavy so Nyx can't just swoop in and grab the pony and fly off allowing the bomb to go off and not caring about it.

3731277, Leeroy Jenkins was a World of Warcraft player that ignored his entire team's strategic planning and just ran into an enemy's lair while shouting his own name. This forced the rest of his team to chase after him and all their characters died.
His screwup actually made him a famous internet meme for a while.

I'm starting to think that making the captive pony a little filly crying for her parents is going to be too much for Nyx. I mean, yes it's very powerful. But do we really want to push Nyx so hard this early in the story? It's going to be devastating for her to lose the child. I don't want to send Nyx into a full-on depression, because talking her down from that would take heaps of effort and probably derail Nyx's focus on the mission at hand in a serious way.

I'm thinking of making it some earth pony mare who was beaten up and tied to a tree.

The story has plenty of time to get super-dark later. I just hesitate to go down that path this early. What are your thoughts?

3730582

Well, I did it. I rewrote the entire cliffhanger from the moment where Flitter does her flyover until the end of the chapter.

See what you think!
It added 661 words to the chapter, bringing it up to 11,101

While it doesn't include the zebras initiating the attack, I do think it reads better as our heroes blazing in to save some innocent pony. However, I took all your advice into careful consideration, making sure that it was not a cavalier decision. There's several places we witness them thinking ahead, making a plan, etc. Ultimately, time runs out and a snap decision must be made. It works pretty well.

Oh, and the sacrificial pony fits well into this scene. Really well. Everything feels real and plausible. Flitter even has an emotionally vulnerable moment here.

Be sure to check it for spacial continuity. I read it three times and I think it's solid.

m thinking of making it some earth pony mare who was beaten up and tied to a tree.

TIE HER TO THE BOMB or tie the bomb to the tree.

remember one of my main problems is that any person with any millitary training will have ONE priority in this battle
get themselves and the sacrificial pony away from the explody thing.

for the cliffhanger to make sense our heroes must be within the blast radius when the explody thing well explodes.

two ways to solve this.

Have the zebras repurpose the explody thing as a weapon and rush Nyx in a suicide bomber attack
or
even more dramatically, have the sacrificial pony and the bomb be physically linked by being tied to each other in some inextricable way.

I don't know if you used either of these two approaches ( I am on my lunch break and can't read pony on the clock) but this is something I will be looking for when I read this evening.

3731277
I feel like I have to expand a bit with the whole " tying the bomb to the tree" thing.

I do agree with what you're saying here. If they were tied together, it could be a situation that increases the desperation for Nyx to try and detach it, even if she ultimately never gets the chance to do because the Commander is engaging her in advanced hoof combat while the thing is armed. She realizes it's about to go off and puts up her shield. She never had the chance to cut loose the pony.
As for motivation to get close to the bomb, well, if it's about to be used to sacrifice the pony, then that's motivation alone, no? Even if it was being held by the Commander and not attached directly to the pony, that still provides Nyx reason to body-slam him and try to prevent it from being armed in the first place. It's entirely plausible that Nyx would use this method in that scenario, to try and save the pony. Heck, to even tie up a potential loose end, the pony could be tied to something heavy so Nyx can't just swoop in and grab the pony and fly off allowing the bomb to go off and not caring about it.

Okay so here is my problem.

Nyx and co are about to sweep in to rescue the hostage. They know the hostage will be killed by being burned alive through a thermobaric incendiary device roughly analogous to magical Napalm. They do not know whether it has been armed or not. They do not know how much time they have before it detonates if it has been in fact, armed.

Priority number one in any millitary leader's head will be get rid of this incendiary device. This will buy them the time they desperately need to rescue the hostage defeat the zebras and hoof it on out of there.

worse still, the savvy reader, who is looking for Chekhov's guns and foreshadowing, probably has noticed that you already provided a near perfect way to mute the threat of the bomb.

In the previous chapter, you showed one of the members of the squad had the ability to enclose rapidly moving targets ( fruit bats) inside of a shield that could not be penetrated from the inside.

a BLAST- PROOF shield, mind you , as shown when Rumble dropped the grenade in there and the resulting blast was wholly contained within the shield.

Aha! the reader is saying. here is that pony's time to shine!

except no not at all. everybody forgets about him( or her) . which is really really really dumb.
But of course he cant do his trick , because your narrative purposes demand the bomb go off.

we need to logically reconcile these two facts.

all right so , killing said " barrier warrior" pony first or abandoning them in one of the previously visited towns, doesn't really solve the problem, because Nyx or some other magically powerful pony could just pick up the bomb ( or a stationary zebra holding the bomb) and fling it far away. either way the bomb goes away during the first five seconds of this fight. Again, getting rid of it would be the very first goal.

this means there are really only two ways for the bomb to remain in the picture long enough for it to detonate.

Option one THE BOMB IS MOVING REALLY FAST. Not being held by the leader as he pontificates or stands in a generally small area fighting hoof to hoof.( because then the leader or any slow zebra holding the bomb,would be enclosed in the barrier or would be picked up telekinetically and thrown ) Instead someone is SPRINTING towards or around our heroes with the device ( hence the suicide bomber attack concept). This is the weaker option of the two, in my opinion, because it means that this speedy bomb holding zebra has to be faster and harder to catch than a flock of fruit bats! dont know how realistic this is.

Option Two: the bomb is attached to the hostage in some way that cannot be easily extricated. This does two things. One it " buys" the bomb enough time to go off.the second thing it does is it provides a reason as to why our heroes would be standing within the blast radius . ( contrary wise,assume the bomb is impossible to defuse and is NOT attached to the hostage . Let us also assume that like your hostage, the bomb is weighed down so it cannot be weighed or carried away. There would be noting stopping the barrier warrior from casting his barrier over the bomb, or , worst case scenario, everybody staying away. ) However, if the bomb and the hostage are both say, bound to the same tree, then there is a good reason for Nyx and others to be in close proximity, talking to the hostage, trying to cut through the bindings. In other words, this would make the BOMB ( more exactly the tree that the hostage and the bomb are both attached to) the focal point, the absolute gravitational center of the fight, whereas in every other scenario where everyone has a working brain, it would be in the interest of both the ponies and the zebras to be as far away from the bomb as possible.

3732871
Ok please don't take offense at this, but I really don't think you understand the tactical situation fully.

I screwed up the first draft because I wasn't considering the idiot ball idea. But now I'm very focused on it and in what I have written currently, I'm pretty sure that there are no logic gaps or "idiot balls" at this point. I also have covered one logic problem which your scenario has that it doesn't appear you've considered: Plausible hope of rescue. I'll explain.

remember one of my main problems is that any person with any millitary training will have ONE priority in this battle get themselves and the sacrificial pony away from the explody thing.

That would be the main goal, yes. But if something were to be obviously preventing them from being able to do said goal, then no... their goal would have to be somewhat different.

for the cliffhanger to make sense our heroes must be within the blast radius when the explody thing well explodes.

Yep yep. Agreed.

Have the zebras repurpose the explody thing as a weapon and rush Nyx in a suicide bomber attack

Unnecessarily complex. Extremely difficult to conceptualize in my mind, much less in writing exactly how this would play out tactically. Cutting the fat, my solution provides the same results much more concisely.

Nyx and co are about to sweep in to rescue the hostage. They know the hostage will be killed by being burned alive through a thermobaric incendiary device roughly analogous to magical Napalm.

Well, it's more equivalent to a tactical thermonuclear device. Napalm is spreading crazy amounts of sticky fuel on a target and lighting it on fire. Thermobaric incendiaries actually annihilate the air using it to rapidly and concussively ignite fuel dispersed in the air prior to detonation. The balefire egg here has a two-phase attack beginning with a massive radiation burst which fries everything in the blast zone with magical fire and radiation. Then it has a shockwave which annihilates the burning material and causes severe blast damage to a larger radius than the initial (much more deadly) phase. It's really two bombs in one.

But I digress.

They do not know whether it has been armed or not. They do not know how much time they have before it detonates if it has been in fact, armed.

Actually they do. Rumble points out that the zebras themselves have not dispersed, which means that unless this is a suicide mission (unlikely) they have enough time to try and make a rescue attempt.

The initial plan for the rescue involves our heroes engaging the zebras in battle, distracting them from even doing anything with their (as yet undeployed) bomb. Winning the battle, which could take several minutes (remember it's 3 vs 13 and these aren't chimeras, they will shoot back), and then at the end untying the captive and saving the day.

That was the initial idea, because up until this point, the bomb is only a theory relayed by Flitter having overheard their plans. Our heroes have a pony to rescue, and they are planning conventional methods to do it. There is no bomb yet. That's one important detail I need you to understand.

This is the only reason why the team is even considering rescuing that pony. Because at the moment, there is still some time. The initial plan is a risky battle, yes. But our heroes aren't the type to just say "fuck it, let her die" and leave. Unless there's absolutely no hope of a rescue.

As for whether it's armed, the zebra Commander has not yet produced the bomb. Flitter did recon first and pointed out that the Commander mentioned balefire, and cleansing. The conclusion is that they are going to blow up the site. But no bomb was present or she would have mentioned it.

And we know that the zebras are going to configure it with enough time for them to get the hell out of Dodge before it goes off. We'll say 75 seconds, sure.

Plausibility factor for not tying the bomb to the hostage: The zebras are not expecting a rescue attempt. They are not trying very hard to prevent one because (a) they are in the middle of freaking nowhere and (b) there are thirteen zebras including a highly skilled Commander who has the ability to paralyze a pony by hitting them in the right place, and who knows what else. He's essentially a Black Belt + Mr. Spock in one. No, the zebras are confident that their intentions are not at risk. From their point of view this is a ritual - not a military operation.

Priority number one in any millitary leader's head will be get rid of this incendiary device. This will buy them the time they desperately need to rescue the hostage defeat the zebras and hoof it on out of there.

If the device is being held by Black Belt Mr. Spock, getting it away from him successfully and escaping with it is a bit of a stretch. He's not just going to hand it over. Nopony with magic can just levitate it out of his grasp because (if I recall from Fo:E) levitation works by making the target object weightless relative to the outside world, and then applies a minor external force to the object, thus moving it about through the air. It's not really a mechanism that can snatch something from someone's grasp. Fo:E established that (for example) you cannot levitate a pegasus and keep them from flying off. Their thrust from their wings is more than sufficient to counteract levitation, even if they were weightless and floating.

Now, I'm willing to ignore that particular aspect of levitation, since I'd prefer that unicorns/alicorns be able to have a sure grasp on something. Especially swords. But I still can't have Nyx swooping in at high speeds, intercepting the egg and flying off with it. That just won't do.

But this is a minor (and likely the only) potential logic hole in my currently written scene. I do think it would be unlikely that Nyx could successfully swoop in and snatch the bomb from the Commander and fly off with it. If this isn't clear, I could make it clear in the narrative with even a small alteration to the bomb's disposition.

So they can't "get rid of the device".

And yes, what they need is time to rescue the hostage. I agree. This is extremely important for their plan to work at all, because she's tied to a tree. Nyx can't swoop in and fly off with the hostage. (And I really hesitate to use the term hostage because she's not being used as a bargaining device here).

worse still, the savvy reader, who is looking for Chekhov's guns and foreshadowing, probably has noticed that you already provided a near perfect way to mute the threat of the bomb.

No, not really. There's no way to mute the bomb.

In the previous chapter, you showed one of the members of the squad had the ability to enclose rapidly moving targets ( fruit bats) inside of a shield that could not be penetrated from the inside.
a BLAST- PROOF shield, mind you , as shown when Rumble dropped the grenade in there and the resulting blast was wholly contained within the shield.
Aha! the reader is saying. here is that pony's time to shine!
except no not at all. everybody forgets about him( or her) . which is really really really dumb.
But of course he cant do his trick , because your narrative purposes demand the bomb go off.

Windy's little one-way shield trick? Heh, no.

First of all, her shield can contain a grenade. Not a tactical thermonuclear device. A grenade is a relatively small high explosive charge embedded in an assortment of sharp metal objects that go flying out at high speed and Cuisinart whoever is nearby. Windy's shield can handle that. So can Nyx's for that matter.

A balefire egg puts out an absolutely ridiculous amount of energy. There is one (canon) instance where a balefire egg is contained successfully within a shield. It's an alicorn shield projected by a super powerful radioactively enhanced nigh unstoppable boss alicorn. Convenient for Littlepip that she was able to create the scenario where the egg ended up inside the alicorn's shield, and destroys her without killing Littlepip in the process.

Secondly, Windy is not present. She's not a combat pony, really. She's along for the ride because Earth Brigade regulations state that a multitalented unicorn be present with the earth ponies on their mission. She's a jack of all trades, not the master of much. The three non-combatants are not present. They are hiding behind cover, a bit more than 100m away farther up the path and alongside the river. They have no idea what is going on in the camp.

So Windy's trickery isn't going to help anyone here, and our heroes are aware of this. She is prevented from being the hero here by two layers of logic. And no, it's not contrived because it makes sense to have the non-combatants stay the hell behind if there's potentially going to be a big zebra fight and Daisy does not have her full squad of 15 ponies with her. There are exactly three combatants on the heroes' side. This was a scouting mission initially, remember.

because Nyx or some other magically powerful pony could just pick up the bomb ( or a stationary zebra holding the bomb) and fling it far away

Covered this, but again I'd say that Nyx's levitation powers aren't really sufficient to pull that off.
1: The Black Belt Spock is holding the bomb. He's not gonna let it go. She can't focus solely on that.
2: Black Belt Spock might be able to be levitated up by Nyx, but not in a rapid flyby. And if she stopped to focus on levitating him and trotting off with him, the other twelve zebras would tackle her and no, that wouldn't work. All the zebras are present and paying close attention to what the Commander is doing.

So they can't dispose of the bomb. And the only way to stop the bomb from going off is to keep it from being armed in the first place. And the Commander is in the process of getting ready to do exactly that.

Which brings me to the potential objection: "Why doesn't Nyx just put the zebra Commander and his bomb in a shield?"
To which the answer is: She could, and he would very likely not arm the device while trapped in the shield. All he would have to do is sit there and wait for the other twelve zebras to take Nyx out while she's focusing on maintaining the shield. So that won't work either.

this means there are really only two ways for the bomb to remain in the picture long enough for it to detonate.
Option one THE BOMB IS MOVING REALLY FAST.

Or being held by Black Belt Mr. Spock. With twelve other zebras nearby for support.

Option Two: the bomb is attached to the hostage in some way that cannot be easily extricated.

Here is the problem with this idea: If the bomb was secured to the pony, then there would be absolutely no way to save her. The heroes need plausible hope that they can successfully rescue the pony. Having her attached to the bomb (as you said) ensures that it goes off and kills the pony. But if our heroes know this, they aren't even going to attempt a rescue.

This does two things. One it " buys" the bomb enough time to go off.

I've covered this already because the Commander is currently trying to set the bomb up with a long timer to allow the zebras time to vacate the area. But Nyx causes the Commander to drop the bomb, and it arms anyway with no timer at all. All it has to do is charge up its Magical Stuff and blow up. 20 seconds tops.

the second thing it does is it provides a reason as to why our heroes would be standing within the blast radius .

Covered that too. The reason our heroes are still in the blast radius is because (a) they have not yet been able to rescue the pony, and (b) Nyx is essentially in a Boss Fight. The Commander isn't really letting her focus on anything but him. Daisy doesn't even notice that the bomb has been dropped because she's shooting zebras. Rumble does notice the bomb, but it's already charging its Magic Stuff, and all he has time to do is yell for Nyx to GTFO.

Let us also assume that like your hostage, the bomb is weighed down so it cannot be weighed or carried away.

This is permissible if my current scenario isn't obviously air tight. Wouldn't take much to make it clear that the bomb isn't going to be taken out of the scene. I think I've already done that though.

However, if the bomb and the hostage are both say, bound to the same tree, then there is a good reason for Nyx and others to be in close proximity, talking to the hostage, trying to cut through the bindings.

With thirteen skilled combat zebras standing immediately around them? Oh sure. They'll just stop and wait for the heroes to rescue the pony.

Also, again securing the bomb to the pony removes all plausible hope of a successful rescue.

In other words, this would make the BOMB ( more exactly the tree that the hostage and the bomb are both attached to) the focal point, the absolute gravitational center of the fight

Rescuing the pony is the focal point. The only possible way to rescue is to either (a) entirely prevent the bomb from being armed in the first place, or (b) somehow... no actually there is only one way. There's no way to untie her with thirteen zebras standing right there.

whereas in every other scenario where everyone has a working brain, it would be in the interest of both the ponies and the zebras to be as far away from the bomb as possible.

Except that they can't get the captive pony away from the bomb. That's the entire purpose of writing her into the situation, remember? To give Nyx a plausible motive to get into the fight. Otherwise, like you pointed out originally, everyone would need to be holding massive idiot balls to rush in. Just let the thing blow up, no harm done.

So in conclusion, I haven't mentioned yet that the reason for the snap decision to rush in (after they were merely discussing the situation and forming a strategy for the rescue) is because Daisy just saw the Commander pull the bomb out of its box and the zebras are starting to walk away from the center of the site. Time is rapidly running out. There are mere seconds before the Commander is going to set the timer. Nyx must do something now or that pony is history. She must rush in and prevent the arming of the bomb. Failing to do this is failure of the rescue.

3733673

wait hold on this is a THERMONUCLEAR device as opposed to the combined napalm-thermobaric device I thought it was ?

then the solution has always only been one sentence long.

so yes my efforts here have been aimed at buying enough time for the thing to go off while there are still within the blast radius. which as you correctly point out, is mostly acheived by complicating things. Which I did so as to explain why they are all standing around within the blast radius when it goes off.

a FIFTY METER blast radius.

but if it's a NUKE that could be like a FIVE KILOMETER blast radius.

and that would solve all your problems real fast. you don't even need a sacrifice.

Make the blast radius big enough to engulf one of the nearby towns. And/ or that town might also/instead be in a radioactive fallout zone. OF COURSE Nyx and co would willingly engage in a " suicide mission" to stop that from happening.

At the very least make it big enough that our heroes CAN NOT escape by hoof. Then their ONLY HOPE is to somehow keep it from going off. with a few keystrokes all of your motivational AND tactical issues go away.

of course the tradeoff is that the bomb does go off, leaving you to explain why the damage is not as grave as you previously said it would be.

it could be a case of misidentification. Perhaps in the heat of the moment in the dim light Flitter misidentified the egg as the " One Megaton" ( just to use a label) variety when it turned out to be the "one Kiloton" variety. Of course this is itself a form of the " idiot ball" but it is a very small one that is a reasonable mistake when compared with the apparently willful suicide attempt of
the original draft.

perhaps a second explanation is that at the very last millisecond Nyx herself tried to smother the bomb by putting up her barrier around the egg. this was not enough to smother the blast completely, but it was enough to contain it to a hundred meter or so radius instead of the much larger original destructive radius. Combine this with whatever mechanism you will use to actually allow our heroes to survive and there you go. This also has the further effect of further weakening Nyx making that " therapy " that will happen in chapter six that much more necessary.

One last thing, it seems like your patience with me is wearing thin. I probably seem like a pedantic asshole to you ... EXCELLENT... because that is the characther I am playing! I am being as pedantic and nitpicky as possible, completely on purpose, both to force you to strengthen your story as much as possible and to prepare you for the " worst case" commenter with no life ( think comic book guy from " The Simpsons") who might show up in the comments and tear into you.

But it is your story after all, and once you reach the point where YOU are satisfied with the logical consistency of the events in your story.... well that is it really! It is your standard that matters, not mine since my standard will, again on purpose, always become harder and more nitpicky.

3736380

wait hold on this is a THERMONUCLEAR device as opposed to the combined napalm-thermobaric device I thought it was ?

It's this.
Not this.

"A Balefire Egg is a small gem that is shaped like an egg and have on a later point been enchanted with a spell, that causes a miniature balefire explosion. The surface of the eggs are black, but are described as looking like they are impossible, bending in on themselves and showing other signs of chaotic and or necromantic energies and magic.

These eggs are normally fired from a Balefire Egg Launcher, the weapon they where built from, but can also be thrown or manipulated by other means, although a launcher is the most effective mean of using one, simply because of the large blast that comes from them. If the initial blast doesn't kill a victim, the radiation produced by the balefire egg is normally enough to kill or heavily irradiate anyone caught in the blast radius."

then the solution has always only been one sentence long.

I'm sorry, I don't follow...

so yes my efforts here have been aimed at buying enough time for the thing to go off while there are still within the blast radius. which as you correctly point out, is mostly acheived by complicating things. Which I did so as to explain why they are all standing around within the blast radius when it goes off.

Quite simply, I'm assuming that the egg takes a moment to charge up its Magic Stuff. When Littlepip and friends first encountered a balefire bomb (not an egg) it was a very strange, heavy box thing which appeared to have impossible geometric qualities and eerie rainbows of colored swirling light coming from it. This was in its uncharged state, too. These things are made of freaky dark magic. So with the egg, I'm just saying that it needs time to charge up before it blows. 20 seconds.

Whereas obviously 20 seconds isn't enough time for the zebras to reach a safe distance, and so the Commander planned on setting a timer for 75 seconds.

However, with Nyx interrupting the process (what's that remind you of?) something unexpected happens. The egg arms immediately and starts charging as soon as it hits the ground. This gives our heroes a short 20 second battle which ends poorly for Nyx, and especially the captive pony.

a FIFTY METER blast radius.
but if it's a NUKE that could be like a FIVE KILOMETER blast radius.

First, it's a fifty meter sure-kill radius. The concussive shockwave goes far beyond that but there may be survivors at that range.

And... No, no, no... Again,
It's this.
Not this.

The Megaspells haven't been invented yet. The zebras invented the mini tactical nuke. When it was applied to Fluttershy's Megaspell Framework (which Spell Nexus invented), it amplified the effects a thousand fold, creating a city-destroying strategic nuke. This is not a strategic nuke. It's something small enough to be deployed via a handheld launcher or mortar.

Tactical mini-nukes are featured in several sci-fi stories.
Here's a video of one going off in a movie! This is exactly what a balefire egg is like in terms of size vs destructive power.

Make the blast radius big enough to engulf one of the nearby towns. And/ or that town might also/instead be in a radioactive fallout zone. OF COURSE Nyx and co would willingly engage in a " suicide mission" to stop that from happening.
At the very least make it big enough that our heroes CAN NOT escape by hoof. Then their ONLY HOPE is to somehow keep it from going off. with a few keystrokes all of your motivational AND tactical issues go away.

Again, not invented yet. And certainly not deployed by a tactical zebra squad.
Interestingly, even if they were invented and even if they were portable (they're really not) there's still the issue of why on earth would the zebras deploy a strategic nuclear device to cleanse a small defiled camp? They themselves would have no hope of escaping the blast radius of something like that.

of course the tradeoff is that the bomb does go off, leaving you to explain why the damage is not as grave as you previously said it would be.
it could be a case of misidentification. Perhaps in the heat of the moment in the dim light Flitter misidentified the egg as the " One Megaton" ( just to use a label) variety when it turned out to be the "one Kiloton" variety. Of course this is itself a form of the " idiot ball" but it is a very small one that is a reasonable mistake when compared with the apparently willful suicide attempt of
the original draft.

A handheld tactical nuke is an RPG sized device that probably has a yield of oh, say, 0.002 kilotons.
In other words, two tons.

Here's what a two ton conventional bomb would do:

Notice the three circles I've drawn here:
Inner: Detonation site.
Middle: Looks to be a roughly 50m sure-kill radius.
Outer: Heavy concussive shockwave damage, but easily conceivable that there would be survivors.

Now, imagine that kind of detonation coming from something the size of an RPG (like in the Starship Troopers video above).

That's what we're talking about here. Except for the whole radiation and two-phase detonation thing.

perhaps a second explanation is that at the very last millisecond Nyx herself tried to smother the bomb by putting up her barrier around the egg. this was not enough to smother the blast completely, but it was enough to contain it to a hundred meter or so radius instead of the much larger original destructive radius. Combine this with whatever mechanism you will use to actually allow our heroes to survive and there you go. This also has the further effect of further weakening Nyx making that " therapy " that will happen in chapter six that much more necessary.

Unnecessary, really. Nyx's shield can't hold the explosion. Not a chance. It's way too much energy. Her only hope of saving the pony is to prevent it from being armed in the first place. Or they could just give up and all leave to safety instead of trying the rescue. But that's not Nyx's character.

One last thing, it seems like your patience with me is wearing thin. I probably seem like a pedantic asshole to you ... EXCELLENT... because that is the characther I am playing! I am being as pedantic and nitpicky as possible, completely on purpose, both to force you to strengthen your story as much as possible and to prepare you for the " worst case" commenter with no life ( think comic book guy from " The Simpsons") who might show up in the comments and tear into you.

Who's "comic book guy"?

Oh that's fine. Just be prepared to have all your points rebutted if I've plugged all the logic holes.

It does strengthen the story, I agree. But I'm an efficient person if nothing else. I'm going to go for the simplest solution to achieve my desired narrative effect. And if you read this battle as it's currently written, you'll see that it actually isn't that much text. (Please do read it, by the way. It's pretty good.)

It all boils down to this:

* A young pony is about to be sacrificed with a small tactical nuke.
* The heroes don't see any bomb yet. The pony is tied to a tree. There are thirteen enemy zebras.
* The heroes correctly assume that there is time for a fight, and hopefully rescue the pony.
* Daisy sees the commander pull out the bomb and the other zebras are walking to safety.
* Nyx rushes in for a last ditch effort to prevent the arming of the bomb, knowing it will be a fight.
* Bomb gets dropped and arms without the timer. 20 seconds to boom.
* Rumble spots the bomb arming, and warns Nyx to GTFO, then flies Daisy to safety.
* Nyx notices the bomb is beginning to emit a blinding light, and she has like one second to do something.
* Nyx's only choice is to jump onto the captive pony and put up her shield and hope for the best.
* The rest is history.

Oh just so everyone knows, I still have yet to write the aftermath for the captive pony in Chapter 6. So currently Ch6 doesn't even mention her. I'll get to it pretty soon.

3737223

A young pony is about to be sacrificed with a small tactical nuke.

* The heroes don't see any bomb yet. The pony is tied to a tree. There are thirteen enemy zebras.

* The heroes correctly assume that there is time for a fight, and hopefully rescue the pony.

These three points seem self contradictory.

If they dont see the bomb how do they know that is the mechanism by which the pony will be killed ( they overhear it? if so couldn't the bomb be somewhere else altogether )

They don't see a bomb and there are thirteen enemy zebras, versus what 3 of them? so... seems to me like it isn't THAT imminent and i could walk back 100 meters to get the rest of the team so I am not grotesquely outnumbered when I launch the attack.
See I thought the three jumped in because the hostage's death was IMMINENT but now it sounds like you are arguing that our heroes were thinking , hey maybe the bomb isn't even there yet... at why don't they run over and get their reinforcements??

This situation presents a conundrum, a true " double edged sword" situation. On the one hand, if the explosion is imminent the odds of a succesful rescue are diminished and rushing in is not intelligent. On the other hand if it is not imminent then it seems odd that they do not go back an seek reinforcements before they attack.

Also isn't the fact that the bomb goes off evidence that they were WRONG in their assumption that they had enough time... I know they thought they had 75 seconds instead of 20, but still they calculated that the 3 of them could dispatch 13 zebras in 75 seconds?? still seems a little strained,

3740106

If they dont see the bomb how do they know that is the mechanism by which the pony will be killed ( they overhear it? if so couldn't the bomb be somewhere else altogether )

You still haven't read the updated cliffhanger, have you?

Flitter reports to the others that they are talking about balefire, and definitely talking about sacrificing the pony.

Also, obviously the bomb has to be on site. The entire purpose of the bomb is to "cleanse" the camp site. Where else would it be?

They don't see a bomb and there are thirteen enemy zebras, versus what 3 of them? so... seems to me like it isn't THAT imminent and i could walk back 100 meters to get the rest of the team so I am not grotesquely outnumbered when I launch the attack.

What "rest of the team"? The only ones who are hiding are the non-combatants. At the very start of this engagement, only Nyx, Rumble and Daisy walk forward toward the camp while Flitter flies overhead scouting. They have no backup.

See I thought the three jumped in because the hostage's death was IMMINENT but now it sounds like you are arguing that our heroes were thinking , hey maybe the bomb isn't even there yet... at why don't they run over and get their reinforcements??

You missed the point where I said:
* Daisy sees the commander pull out the bomb and the other zebras are walking to safety.
* Nyx rushes in for a last ditch effort to prevent the arming of the bomb, knowing it will be a fight.

And again - what reinforcements? Windy?? She's not a skilled fighter. Mint Blossom and Chocolate Cake are just local civilians. There is nopony else.

This situation presents a conundrum, a true " double edged sword" situation. On the one hand, if the explosion is imminent the odds of a succesful rescue are diminished and rushing in is not intelligent. On the other hand if it is not imminent then it seems odd that they do not go back an seek reinforcements before they attack.

I fail to see how you could have missed the whole "no reinforcements exist" bit.

Also isn't the fact that the bomb goes off evidence that they were WRONG in their assumption that they had enough time... I know they thought they had 75 seconds instead of 20, but still they calculated that the 3 of them could dispatch 13 zebras in 75 seconds?? still seems a little strained,

No that's not how I have it playing out. Here, I'll make it clear (again).

* Flitter begs the heroes to rescue the pony
* Nyx concurs, saying they must attempt a rescue
* Flitter reports that a bomb is talked about, but doesn't mention having seen one.
* Daisy talks about what that particular bomb is capable of
* Rumble points out that the zebras are all still at the center of the camp, so the explosion is obviously not imminent.
* Daisy sees the commander pull out the bomb and the other zebras are walking to safety. She says that he's preparing to detonate, and there may not be enough time to save the pony now.
* Nyx rushes in for a last ditch effort to prevent the arming of the bomb, knowing it will be a fight.

So when they were talking about rescue, there was no bomb seen yet.
Nobody is speculating about how much time is left. But the main clue that there is time for a fight is that the zebras have not yet cleared out to safety. Nobody knows how many seconds the zebra will set the timer for but obviously it's going to be enough for them to get out of the danger zone.

Nobody calculated that 3 could take out 13 in 75 seconds. Their entire plan revolved around fighting with the zebras before they could arm the device. A battle taking several minutes (as I pointed out in a previous post above). If they engaged the zebras in battle before the arming, the bomb becomes irrelevant because... it's not armed.

Nobody knew that the zebra would drop the bomb and it would arm anyway. Nobody expected that.
So the battle is actually going according to plan, until Rumble spots the device on the ground charging up its Magic Stuff, and yells at Nyx to GTFO.

Is it clear now?

so where is the rest of the squad then? back at the town? why are there only four combatants and the non combatants( who I assume are the pegasus lift team) there?

I mean clearly you are reducing the size of the idiot ball, but there are still two ideas I have that may help.

1. I still think that you may increase the stakes if the bomb goes off. I dont know if this contradicts Fall Out Equestria canon, but perhaps the balefire leaves behind a radioactive residue on anything that catches fire because of it? Ie if the neighboring trees etc catch fire they became radioactive. This way you could have a line about the radioactive fire permanently rendering the nearby forests/swamps radioactive if the fire spreads to them. Added reason to stop the bomb. Added bonus of it being a possibility not a certainty so you do not have to explain why it doesn't actually happen when the bomb does go off.

2. Allright so another idea that once again focuses on the timing issue.

This one is kind of the opposite of my previous " tie the bomb to the hostage" idea.

In this scenario the hostage is dragged out in front of Flitter and forced to sip something ( a potion bu we dont know that yet). then she is placed in the center of the Circle of Zebras. She is NOT tied down ( you will see why soon enough) then everything proceeds as you describe except that the plan is to swoop in there and fly the Hostage out, deposit the hostage with the non combatants then proceed to remove the bomb( if it is present on thebattlefield) and fight the zebras.
So Nyx hears Daisys' warning above and flies in.

she reaches the hostage .....BUT CANT LIFT HER. Nyx throws her shield around the hostage and herself and the hostage stammers out that the potion she just drunk makes her momentarily weigh several tons ( so that she could not attempt an escape during the sacrificial ritual) thus making it impossible for Nyx to carry her out . Nyx looks at the startled stunned and furious zebras circling around her through the wavering force field of her shield. Then she notices the zebra commander produce the egg. ( the events of this paragraph all takes maybe five seconds)

Nyx knows her shield is not strong enough to resist the balefire explosion. And so in an actual split second decision Nyx drops the shield and tackles the zebra commander throwing the egg from his hooves ( Not knowing that upon impact it will accidentally arm itself)
Nyx lands on top of the zebra commander, but before she can kill him in a matter of a second he uses this physical contact to his advantage and buries a dagger he had concealed on him in her side. Not enough to actually wound Nyx but enough pain for him to escape her grasp. Insert hoof to hoof combat and the entrance of the rest of the combatants.

from this point onwards the rest of the battle proceeds exactly as you have written it.

Thoughts?

in case you didn't notice it the thing that is still driving me crazy is that the idea is to disarm a bomb by physically removing it from the grasp of the zebra commander. that is just too idiot bally unless it is an actual split second reaction similar to the above proposed scenario where Nyx is already trapped within the blast zone when the bomb is first glimpsed. I really like my second " gravity potion" scenario above, it is very simple , requires very little rewriting and deals with the problems quite efficiently.

3742684

so where is the rest of the squad then? back at the town? why are there only four combatants and the non combatants( who I assume are the pegasus lift team) there?

I'm sorry, but this... this just makes it look like you haven't been paying attention since the start of Chapter 5.

Please start about the point where this is said:

“Ok Nyx. I’ll trust your instincts on this one. But you’re going to need that guide on the ground anyways, so we’ll go with you,” Daisy conceded. “We can bring Windy Scarlet with us. You and your team plus the guide makes six. That’s plenty. Archer and the rest of the team can stick around Gatorton and prepare the locals.”

This is a scouting mission. The entire purpose is to find out what happened to the town doctor. A good portion of their team is still recovering from the fight in ch4, plus the rest of them are preparing the 1st town for defense. Only six ponies left to go to the 2nd town at the start of this day. And only 3 were real fighters.

Every single thing in this chapter after that point has involved just six ponies. This is made completely obvious. I'm beginning to think you are just playing mind games with me at this point.

I still think that you may increase the stakes if the bomb goes off. I dont know if this contradicts Fall Out Equestria canon, but perhaps the balefire leaves behind a radioactive residue on anything that catches fire because of it? Ie if the neighboring trees etc catch fire they became radioactive. This way you could have a line about the radioactive fire permanently rendering the nearby forests/swamps radioactive if the fire spreads to them.

Again, this is a 0.002 kiloton explosion, effectively. It's negligible long term radiation. Likely enough to give a nasty burst to whoever happens to be in the vicinity at the time it goes off, but I very much doubt it'd have lingering effects.

the rest of the stuff you wrote

Holy cow, man!

Please, please just read the rewrite, ok? It's absolutely useless for you to be speculating and theorizing on a scenario that you haven't even read yet.

Go to page 19 and start where it says:
"Nyx checked her E.F.S. about a hundred meters before the bend in the trail where the camp site was."

Everything from that point forward you need to get up to speed on. Then we can talk about it.

in case you didn't notice it the thing that is still driving me crazy is that the idea is to disarm a bomb by physically removing it from the grasp of the zebra commander. that is just too idiot bally

It's not an idiot ball if it is the only way to stop the bomb from going off.

Just read it. You'll see it works well.

3743632 i doubt it " works well" if you keep insisting in not adressing issues I see as crucial. which Is why I have not read it. but fine I will read it. If you even want me to, you seem rather angry with me for reasons I do not understand.

It's not an idiot ball if it is the only way to stop the bomb from going off.

Hold on, you got the magically powerful alicorn who can shoot magical bolts from her horn, the pegasus who well flies and has machine guns and grenades, and a shape shifter, and the " only way" they have to stop the bomb from going off is " physically wrestle it out of the hooves of the zebra leader while surrounded by 12 other zebras ". Yeah, that's not idiot bally at all !

You have to realize how bad a plan that is, which is why I keep telling you to either make it really really important for the bomb NEVER to go off period OR make it so the bomb and the hostage cannot be separated. if the plan is " lets rescue the hostage" and then it becomes "damn now we are all caught within the blast zone, hostage included, and we have to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to disarm the bomb" aha! well then you have something.

But just to make something clear, if you have decided that, before rushing in, that their goal is explicitly " physically remove the bomb from the leader in order to make sure it does not detonate" ( as opposed to say :" grab the hostage and get her out of there." and then things get complicated) and it must always be this, then i will ALWAYS disagree with you, because that is, simply put , a dumb thing to do, and no matter how desperately you wish to argue that it is smart, it will remain, forever dumb.

Now, dont misunderstand me, it doesn't kill the story or anything like that, most readers won't even pickup on it! But if you refuse to make the bomb more devastating, and you refuse to give them another( in my opinion better) motivation ( like getting the hostage out of there) and you insist making this the motivation they have to put themselves in harm's way, then let us agree to disagree, stop wasting time, and move on to chapter 6.

3745626

i doubt it " works well" if you keep insisting in not adressing issues I see as crucial. which Is why I have not read it.

That makes no sense logically.

First, the "issues you see as crucial" I have addressed already, but in a different way than you suggested.

Second, if you have not read the story as it stands presently, then how can you comment on it's potential problems? You're still raising objections about a version of the story which no longer exists. That is why you need to be up to speed.

If you even want me to, you seem rather angry with me for reasons I do not understand.

Not angry - frustrated. You told me straight-up that you are trying to be as pedantic and nitpicky as possible to strengthen the story. And I do welcome that. But when you go beyond that role and just get pedantic and nitpicky in ways that do not help strengthen the story, then I get frustrated.

Hold on, you got the magically powerful alicorn who can shoot magical bolts from her horn, the pegasus who well flies and has machine guns and grenades, and a shape shifter, and the best plan they have to stop the bomb from going off is " physically wrestle it out of the hooves of the zebra leader while surrounded by 12 other zebras " not idiot bally at all.

Yeah, actually. Let's take these three elements you mentioned and explore the situation.

First, Nyx's weapon isn't going to be much use at a distance to prevent the bomb from going off. She needs to be present and try to keep the zebra from arming the bomb. Firing at him from the treeline is only going to get the other twelve to chase her down and then all bets are off. The Commander still has the bomb. The pony is still tied up. He could easily slay her just out of spite. That is not a good solution for a rescue.

Second, Rumble's flying machineguns can cause panic and chaos among the zebras but that's not going to rescue the pony either. Their plan is to defeat all the zebras and keep them off balance and away from the captive pony long enough to win the fight and rescue her. As long as the zebras are kept off balance, nobody is going to arm the bomb. Rumble can't chuck a grenade at him either, because the captive pony is sitting right there. Mission fail.

Third, Flitter can become a zebra but she was already in there and realized that there was no possible way to rescue the pony from her position. What good does it do? Also, she herself can't prevent the bomb from being armed. Is she going to pretend to be the Commander and accuse the real one of being a fake? Sure, but she'd get her ass kicked by him in a second. He's a fighter. She is not.

You have to realize how bad a plan that is, which is why I keep telling you to either make it really really important for the bomb NEVER to go off period OR make it so the bomb and the hostage cannot be separated.

Or prevent the bomb from being armed. If that is literally the only option, then it doesn't matter how likely they are to succeed. The point is that it is the only option. That is the intent of the narrative. To convey that there is simply no other option, period and thus the heroes will get in the fight as a last ditch effort to rescue. In the rewrite, I've put in enough detail to (I believe) convey the fact that there is no other choice.

Having the bomb not go off is not an option. If that's the case I might as well scrap the entire scene, and 35% of the following chapter while I'm at it.

Having the captive connected to the bomb physically removes all plausible hope of rescue. There needs to be plausible hope or why bother with the rescue at all?

Both of these options destroy the entire purpose of this fight.

if the plan is " lets rescue the hostage" and then it becomes "damn now we are all caught within the blast zone, hostage included, and we have to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to disarm the bomb" aha! well then you have something.

Well that's actually the situation they find themselves in... They tried to rescue the pony. Then Rumble notices the bomb is charging up and is only seconds from going off. He yells at Nyx who notices this, and puts her shield up in the one final shred of hope of survival that remains. She has no idea if it will work or not, but it's clearly "do that or die for certain".

There is no disarming. Once it's armed, that's it.

But just to make something clear, if you have decided that, before rushing in, that their goal is explicitly " physically remove the bomb from the leader in order to make sure it does not detonate" ( as opposed to say :" grab the hostage and get her out of there.

The pony is tied to a tree. They can't get her out. I've said this.
Preventing the bomb from being armed is their one and only hope of a rescue.
What would you do in such a situation?

you refuse to give them another( in my opinion better) motivation ( like getting the hostage out of there)

And how exactly are they supposed to get the captive pony out of there? Seriously, I'd like to hear how you'd do it if you were in that situation.

then i will ALWAYS disagree with you, because that is, simply put , a dumb thing to do, and no matter how desperately you wish to argue that it is smart, it will remain, forever dumb.

Well making it a personal principle isn't probably the best course of action. I suggest we change the perspective just a bit and put you personally in the heroes' horse shoes.

The situation you have just found yourself is this:

Captive pony is tied to a tree.

Thirteen skilled combat zebras are defending.

The bomb was just pulled out of its box, and has not yet been armed.

You have a team with you which is capable of creating an intense battle with the zebras keeping them busy.

Within say, 5-10 seconds, the zebra commander is going to arm the bomb with enough of a timer for them to walk to safety but which would cause it to blow up mid-combat if you were fighting after it was armed, and kill the captive pony because nobody had time to untie her while fighting.

You must act now, or the pony dies. What do you do?

The situation you have just found yourself is this:
Captive pony is tied to a tree.
Thirteen skilled combat zebras are defending.
The bomb was just pulled out of its box, and has not yet been armed.
You have a team with you which is capable of creating an intense battle with the zebras keeping them busy.
Within say, 5-10 seconds, the zebra commander is going to arm the bomb with enough of a timer for them to walk to safety but which would cause it to blow up mid-combat if you were fighting after it was armed, and kill the captive pony because nobody had time to untie her while fighting.
You must act now, or the pony dies. What do you do?

glad you asked.

For starters I would create a distraction to remove the zebras from the hostage.
Flitter shows up as Nyx/ Nightmare moon, standing 50 feet or so away.
all they need is to get the zebras to step away from the hostage just a few feet for a couple of seconds. Then the real Nyx flies to the tree and throws her barrier around herself the tree and the hostage, with the intention that the barrier protect them from the zebras for a few seconds while she unties the hostage, and then flies away with the hostage on her back. But! alas! suddenly Nyx sees the Zebra commander approaching, and what is he carrying? the egg!

Nyx knows her barrier can not withstand the force of a balefire blast. Now she and the hostage are trapped within the blast radius. And the zebra commander is just feet away
this is where it makes sense for Nyx to Tackle the zebra commander and begin the hoof to hoof fight for the egg. The egg gets knocked down and begins charging. everything else proceeds exactly as you had planned.

even better. Take into account what you had said about making sure there seemed to be a plausible chance of escape.

What if the hostage was never tied to a tree at all? wouldn't that make the rescue operation more plausible ? what if the zebras had taken other means to ensure the hostage could not escape, means our heroes could not see and which they did not take into account into their cost/ benefit analysis prior to launching the operation?
This is why I was so proud of the " magical potion" scenario I laid up above. I really don't think you considered it at all So I will repost it below:

This one is kind of the opposite of my previous " tie the bomb to the hostage" idea.
In this scenario the hostage is dragged out in front of Flitter and forced to sip something ( a potion bu we dont know that yet). then she is placed in the center of the Circle of Zebras. She is NOT tied down ( you will see why soon enough) then everything proceeds as you describe except that the plan is to swoop in there and fly the Hostage out, deposit the hostage with the non combatants then proceed to remove the bomb( if it is present on thebattlefield) and fight the zebras.
So Nyx hears Daisys' warning above and flies in.
she reaches the hostage .....BUT CANT LIFT HER. Nyx throws her shield around the hostage and herself and the hostage stammers out that the potion she just drunk makes her momentarily weigh several tons ( so that she could not attempt an escape during the sacrificial ritual) thus making it impossible for Nyx to carry her out . Nyx looks at the startled stunned and furious zebras circling around her through the wavering force field of her shield. Then she notices the zebra commander produce the egg. ( the events of this paragraph all takes maybe five seconds)
Nyx knows her shield is not strong enough to resist the balefire explosion. And so in an actual split second decision Nyx drops the shield and tackles the zebra commander throwing the egg from his hooves ( Not knowing that upon impact it will accidentally arm itself)
Nyx lands on top of the zebra commander, but before she can kill him in a matter of a second he uses this physical contact to his advantage and buries a dagger he had concealed on him in her side. Not enough to actually wound Nyx but enough pain for him to escape her grasp. Insert hoof to hoof combat and the entrance of the rest of the combatants.
from this point onwards the rest of the battle proceeds exactly as you have written it.
Thoughts?

For starters I would create a distraction to remove the zebras from the hostage.
Flitter shows up as Nyx/ Nightmare moon, standing 50 feet or so away.
all they need is to get the zebras to step away from the hostage just a few feet for a couple of seconds. Then the real Nyx flies to the tree and throws her barrier around herself the tree and the hostage, with the intention that the barrier protect them from the zebras for a few seconds while she unties the hostage, and then flies away with the hostage on her back. But! alas! suddenly Nyx sees the Zebra commander approaching, and what is he carrying? the egg!
Nyx knows her barrier can not withstand the force of a balefire blast. Now she and the hostage are trapped within the blast radius. And the zebra commander is just feet away
this is where it makes sense for Nyx to Tackle the zebra commander and begin the hoof to hoof fight for the egg. The egg gets knocked down and begins charging. everything else proceeds exactly as you had planned.

I'm not gonna lie; it's not bad. It's certainly better than the other suggestions/objections so far. It adds details without changing much at all of existing details.

I'll think about this.

My first thought is why would Flitter come up with this elaborate idea in the spur of the moment with only seconds on the clock to death for the captive pony? It does seem rather risky (idiot ball?) of Flitter to rush out as Nightmare Moon and assume that the zebras will all chase her like Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains, rather than just gunning her down on sight.

The entire success of this ruse depends on the zebras' reaction to Flitter. I guess that's what my main concern is. If they can guarantee the zebras' reaction to Flitter, then it's a decent plan. But their reaction must include not arming the bomb. If the heroes believe that the zebras will arm the bomb anyway, then the plan's a bust because the pony dies anyway.

Nyx untying the pony with a shield around her to buy time is actually a very interesting course of action I had not considered. I'm wondering if Nyx would consider it herself. It does buy her a bit of time to try and rescue the hostage, but then as you said, if the zebra commander is motivated enough to destroy Nightmare Moon that he's willing to suicide-bomb her, then he will just arm the egg anyway.

The question then, is how would Nyx react to him doing this? Would she really drop the shield and fight him? With seconds to detonation? In my version, this is the point where she puts up the shield and tries her best to protect the pony. If Nyx drops her shield and tries to fight the commander, then she's sentenced that pony to death because (a) it can't be disarmed, and (b) the pony is now unshielded.

If the commander is going to suicide-bomb Nyx who is stuck within her shield, then Nyx's best option is to remain in the shield with the pony and hope for the best. It's a much less interesting version of what I've already written, where at least we do have some exciting hoof combat going on.

And to cover the potential objection: Let's say that Nyx can't untie the pony in time to fly her to safety. The zebra commander would have gone for no delay and it would go off in say, 20 seconds. Meanwhile, all the zebras could sacrifice their lives to make sure Nyx doesn't get away and (I guess) hope that her shield doesn't hold?

What if the hostage was never tied to a tree at all? wouldn't that make the rescue operation more plausible ? what if the zebras had taken other means to ensure the hostage could not escape, means our heroes could not see and which they did not take into account into their cost/ benefit analysis prior to launching the operation?
This is why I was so proud of the " magical potion" scenario I laid up above. I really don't think you considered it at all So I will repost it below:

Ok, since you want me to give you my thoughts on that, I will.

My first impression is that this strikes me as a Diablous ex Machina trope. Why would the zebras use some kind of potion to keep the pony in place rather than tying her down? Also, if the pony "weighs several tons" she wouldn't even be able to breathe and would be crushed. The mechanism by which this potion works would have to be invented in detail, and explained at some point in the story. It's all extremely complex for such a simple thing as to keep the pony from getting away. Ropes (or chains) work fine.

The rest of your suggestion involves a fight with the Commander, and I've already got that. You should read it.

this is where it makes sense for Nyx to Tackle the zebra commander and begin the hoof to hoof fight for the egg. The egg gets knocked down and begins charging. everything else proceeds exactly as you had planned.

Oh, I think I misread this at first. So you've also got it not armed yet. So Nyx would drop her shield in the hopes of doing (essentially) what I had her doing at the beginning of my version anyway. Trying to prevent it from being armed.