Source

The pictures, released by Empire Magazine, are rather straightforward.

We've got Silicon Valley-styled Lex Luthor, angsty Superman, and Batman in front of the Bat-Logo. All rather straightforward.

4584192 Missed one

4584202 Bruce looks good.

I wish they made a point of Clark having a different posture from Superman, but given that it's a grainy photo for the purpose of promotion, I can't be sure if they do go that route.

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Did you guys see this fight back in The Dark Knight Returns Pt. 2?

4584224 Yes I did.

I don't like The Dark Knight Returns.

4584241 Because Bruce "died"?

4584243 Because Superman was shown as a government pawn, Batman was given a borderline God Complex, and generally acted like a self-righteous jerk (while never getting called on it), and because it's one of the most disgustingly cynical and downtrodden experiences I've had to endure.

4584249 The Dark Knight Strikes Again was worse, because every problem you had with TDKR was amplified by 10. Add in a terrible art style, and it's one the worst comics I've ever read.

4584249 True, true, and I may be able to relate. However, Superman has always been law abiding, Batman's always felt somewhat indestructible (why else would anyone be crazy enough to take on Ra's or Bane on their own), and considering what he's accomplished, he has sort of earned the right to boast. But I see your point. I didn't particularly like it myself, but I did enjoy the fights, both against the gang at the start, which was relatively accurate, and Superman at the end. Joker's death wasn't so bad to me after I saw him die in Arkham... City? Is that right? Or was it Origin?

4584249
TDKR still needs to be understand in its context (and no, I don't mean in the context of the Miller-universe, I mean as a product of the 80s when crime was far more rampant in the U.S. than it is today and the Cold War was revving up again). Do I agree with Miller's understanding of Superman, no, I never really have, but I think he does it best in TDKR simply in that he shows that at the very least they're two friends with a history with each other who shouldn't be fighting (that's the kindest thing I'll say about his Superman). The thing about TDKR that works best for me is that 80s Miller understands two great things about Batman: (1) just how he's larger than life (Linkara has observed that most DC heroes are larger than life and paragons of virtue, but how that is so with Batman isn't always apparent) in how he makes himself a symbol of justice for others to rally to, and (2) some of his most important relationships, like with Two Face, Joker, Carrie Kelly-Robin, and Superman (he at least understands the Batman side of things). If you can accept, for example, that in this continuity Superman has gotten to a point where he'd rather not decide himself how to use his powers (again, something I don't like but I can live with it here), then it's easy to work with Batman viewing himself as the one guy who can and should take him down a notch. Despite the fact that he doesn't say it, TDKR Batman clearly believes that Superman is still needed because he doesn't go so far as to kill him; that's not how they work, never is, and sure he may be a grumpy old man, but he's a grumpy old man trying to point people in the right direction. The Joker would want to go out in a blaze of mayhem and death-worship alongside Batman, Harvey Dent is a tragic and broken figure who probably can never be the same again, Robin is a figure that needs to be in Batman's life to remind him what his mission is all about, making a better world for others and showing them how they too can make it better and keep it better. Closing out these storylines for Batman in this way works for me because it fits the world he's always operated in in Gotham. The world's ugly, he accepted ever since his parents died in front of him that it is ugly, and he recognizes that sometimes you just have to take action to make it better.

Now again, I'll admit that TDKR is a grim story that's not for everyone. I like elements of the Silver Age myself, especially the best ones that have stuck with the heroes ever since. But despite his near worship of Batman, Miller at least knew how to write him back in the 80s to the point that it wasn't ridiculous. He knew back then at least that he was still just a man, and that made his feats all the more remarkable; instead of the ASBAR Batman who simply is capable of anything and everything like it was nothing, 80s Miller-Batman, whether it's TDKR or Year One, has to struggle in everything he does. He's mortal, but it's his will and indominatable spirit that pushes him to superheroic heights. The scene in the Batcave following his first fight with the Mutant Leader is probably my favorite example of this; it's not medical treatment or gear that keeps him going, it's simply his reminding himself that the Batman, the creature born of his parents' deaths, is not done with him and will never be finished with him. That to me is a great moment that gets at part of the heart of Batman. So in closing, I'll reiterate that, again, knowing how fond you are of the Silver Age, I understand if you don't like TDKR, but there are plenty of reasons beyond fanboyism that it's considered a classic Batman story (after all, it came out in the 80s before the Internet and even then it was being hailed by critics). Miller's off his rocker today, but I'll always give him credit where credit is due, and the fact his he used to put out some really impressive stories like TDKR. Quite a shame really that he lost so much of his touch.

4584602 Also one must take into account that Miller painted a pretty bleak world in general and cleared the playing field... Well enough I suppose so it was ONLY Superman and Batman. Diana being back on Themescyra, Hal is still a Green Lantern the only difference being he's not welcome on Earth anymore, etc, etc.

I will say this... The fight built up and had in the Dark Knight Returns MAKES SENSE!!!! You have a drastically petty and arrogant government that hates ONE CITY in the world is actually FUNCTIONING after nuclear winter because Batman managed to get people to work together to survive. You have that same government sending Superman, who in a bid to keep helping people and not be forced to retire as the rest of the Justice League was and agreed to work for them, to bring Batman in.

You have two men who clearly respect the HELL out of each other and consider each other to be their best friend who have spent years working together and are almost close as brothers..... Being forced into a fight. And a fight that can ONLY work because Clark LET Bruce win.

Keep in mind, weakened slightly or not? Clark had SO many opportunities to END the fight before it even started, and a over half of them were non lethal too like flying Bruce high enough into the sky at super speed to make him pass out from the low oxygen for one. But no, he put on a show and made it look like Bruce beat him because while he couldn't just disobey orders without the government going to war with him and thus GREATLY impede his efforts to help... He also couldn't just let the good work Bruce was doing be undone.

Even when he was being used as a government lackey? Frank still managed to get the ESSENCE of Superman right in that regard. He'll ALWAYS do the right thing no matter the cost.

The problem with this movie is.... Bruce has no real LEGIT reason to try and fight Clark! Like... Oh sure he caused massive destruction, but? HE WAS TRYING TO SAVE THE PLANET!!! Disagree with the destruction in Man of Steel all you want, Clark WAS actively trying to STOP a disaster and fighting someone with all of his powers who was also a better fighter, with Clark only having a SLIGHT edge since he had absorbed FAR more Yellow sunlight and was slightly stronger!

I mean what the hell Bruce?! It's not like anyone's ever died when you were fighting the Joker...

Oh hi Jason

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Oh yeah, I agree with all those points you made. As for BvS, we don't KNOW yet why they're fighting; my prediction is still that Luthor is going to pull the strings to convince a very weathered, distrustful, and borderline paranoid Batman that taking down Superman is the best option (and yes, I have no problem with the destruction of Metropolis either, but I'm very happy that it is getting addressed in the movie just because it'll be very interesting seeing actual consequences for the destruction caused by a superhero, it kinda reminds me of what the Incredibles did in their set up to force superheroes into retirement). I keep hearing some people saying that that would make Batman look like an idiot, but that's forgetting that Lex Luthor is supposed to be one of the most brilliant minds in the world (heck, in the Justice League series Batman even commented at one point that Luthor was one of the only people who could possibly break past the JL's cyber security, which obviously is derived from Wayne Enterprises technology). Point is, there's no shame in Batman being manipulated into doing something by Lex Luthor of all people, especially if this is a Luthor who hasn't done anything villainous yet; if anyone could realistically manipulate him, it's Luthor, and given the circumstances of this universe's Batman, I can see that happening.

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I feel like Kingdom Come was one of the better showings of Batman and Superman's conflicts and friendship.

4585325 yes

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Oh heck yeah, that's a great showing of it, and Justice League: Doom was a nice adaptation of it (doesn't hurt that they got so much of the JL cast for it).

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I've also got a grinding feeling that The Batman Superman Movie (or World's Finest) that I watched when I was a kid is still going to be better than this feature film.

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Just wait and see man, wait and see. I'm trying to stay on the optimistic side of things myself. At the very least, at least they have far less heroes to worry about here than Marvel will next spring (I am VERY worried about Civil War given how many characters are going to be in it, and they better change the storyline up from the original Civil War story as well, I'll tell you that much).

... Can we PLEASE just watch the movie before we trash it too much? You never know it might actually EXPLAIN the stuff we don't understand yet in the story.

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I hope so; right now I just want to watch World's Finest again. I forgot how much fun that was.