28:06:42:12 - what Donnie Darko taught me and my realist stand on prayer, religion and the world · 12:25pm Feb 19th, 2020
I’m a very curious individual when it comes to a general understanding of society and humanity, trying to figure out the how’s and why’s of modern life. I often wonder why people make the choices they do, whether it be in good conscience or out of badness and spite, a form of rebellious anarchy. It really does make me wonder.
I’m not a poet and I don’t twist in my words with whimsical rhyme, I don’t care for any of that over-the-top bull, but I’m not going to be beating around the bush and trying to make some weird, soft-hearted string of words that play an emotional beat with this blog. I’ve come to really dislike that part of storytelling, where you feel obliged to be entertaining to an obnoxious extent.
Anyway, I only have one thing to say here, so I want to get it over with.
Look, I don’t want to be awkward about this, and I know I’ll likely get a slap from some people about this, but…Donnie Darko. You’ve seen it, yes? Came out in 2001, stars Jake Gyllenhaal, a troubled teen that can see into the future, can time travel, has a six-foot bunny rabbit friend in a creepy mask named Frank.
No, this isn’t going to be a rant in review format about how confusing the film is, but the therapy session where his therapist talks to him on a personal level after he is asked if he believes in a god…it stuck with me. Donnie may be a troubled boy, but he’s far from arrogant or stupid; he is told by the therapist that she thinks he is an agnostic.
Agnostics, for those who don’t know, are people who don’t believe in any form of god in any religious background, but they are entirely open to the possibility that there might be a god. I’m sure this is the mindset with most people, but I have to say that if there’s one thing I’m sick of, it’s having people slap labels on people’s foreheads, naming them this and that through stereotypical means. That irks me to see.
Well, where am I going with this is…do you believe there could be a god? Not the one you see in the bible; that, in my eyes, is like anything else as a story told traditionally through religion, and my reasoning there is that we have carbon dating, ground-breaking science, that can clarify the existence of remains of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures that lived millions and billions of years ago, but we can’t find remains of any name mentioned in the bible, which was far later. That one little fact really sums it up for me. (Don’t kill me, Christians, hear me out!)
There’s a tonne of pain in the world. There’s heartache, there’s fear, murder, rape, terrorism, vandalism, alienation, discrimination, racism, etc. There is a mountain of stuff to list off here, but that’s beside the point. If there was an almighty being watching over us, the pinball wizard of this machine called Earth, then why doesn’t he do something and score a winning point for some of these people instead of rolling a gutter ball? I truly question that every single day and minute that I’m alive, and I do so because when you really and desperately need help, you might sit and pray before each meal or every time you’re about to get into bed, but where do your whispers of peace and guidance land?
At the end of the day, from the point of view of a realist, if you want it to get better, you’ll have to do what you can to make it better. You can’t always do it alone, in some cases needing help, but that whole pep talk you often get at school for ‘having faith’, it bored me. It bored me, but it didn’t land on deaf ears. I did indeed listen, and I’m not saying any of this to mock any religion, but I honestly don’t believe in faith or luck. Life is a massive gamble - you take risks every single day, some of which can land you in the gutter and others which can bring you happiness.
Consulting a book each time to find a solution to your problems…it doesn’t do it for me. When I wish I had somebody else’s life out of jealousy or incredible envy, I don’t do what Harry Potter did and whip up some Polyjuice potion to wear another’s face. I never used holy water to splash against my enemies in the hopes that they’d melt and disintegrate before my eyes. This all sounds ridiculous, I know, but it’s the same concept.
I am not saying any of this to be insulting, insensitive or otherwise, but do you understand where I’m coming from? Donnie didn’t pray for things to get better and he didn’t consult a bible to find a way out; instead, he went along with it and he tried to make life better by taking action. He exposed bad people, one of which he did by burning down the house of a well-respected self-help author, which revealed a dark secret he was hiding where he ran a kiddy porn video ring. He also did all he could to understand what was happening to him, why he could see the future and travel through time, how he could save others, his family and his new girlfriend from horrible fates.
I know this isn’t the best comparison, but I’m not a wordy person at all. What I’m getting at is that praying won’t make anything better. I can go on and on with multiple examples and theories, but my ending conclusion is that you have to do things yourself to make life better. Prayer won’t work in my eyes. If you want to help somebody, then see what you can do to help them, if anything. Maybe they need a talk with a friend if they’re feeling sad or alone? Maybe this Dr Seuss quote will be more use than my words:
With that, I leave you to contemplate and slam me in the comments, as I think we all now understand the controversy involved. Have at me.
Just need to clarify. You’re not saying people shouldn’t be spiritual or believe in gods or a god if it’s what they believe in their heart to be true, just that belief on its own isn’t enough? There is a famous quote from the scriptures, I don’t remember which part, but it goes, “faith without works is dead.” Also, what about cases where best wishes is all someone really can do because of geographical distance and/or very limited resources of their own?
No, you're not far off, but that's not what I meant. We, the human race, have always slapped labels on each other, yes? Like, Atheist, Christian, Hebrew, Muslim, etc. What I was saying is a variant of that - agnostic. Agnostics are not atheists by any means. It means that you don't believe in a god of any form, but you don't deny the possibility of one existing in the universe.
It means you're open minded to maybe accept the reality that there is possibly a god, even if there is no solid, physical evidence to prove their existence. That's what agnostic means. I wasn't saying that faith is useless or is stupid at all, nothing of the sort. If that's what you were asking???
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I was asking that. I must have misunderstood. And I guess I would be agnostic then, or maybe somewhere in between spiritual and agnostic. I do wholeheartedly believe that higher beings exist, just maybe not in a form that humanity has envisioned. I also accept the possibility that they don’t exist, but I choose to believe in the possibility because I wouldn’t feel whole without that.
Alright, I do actually have some answers for these queries. And without hesitation, I'll get into answering them:
Carbon dating has been proven unreliable on several occasions. Live animals have tested to be anywhere from tens of thousands to millions of years old, and the entire system is based on an assumption in the first place.
Another common argument used against Christian interpretation of the Bible, when the Bible does openly and repeatedly mention creatures such as dragons (typically referring to large creatures, most likely dinosaurs), the Behemoth (despite some claiming it to be a hippo or elephant, some very explicit descriptions pin it as a larger animal), the Leviathan (thought to be a sarcosuchus), and a few verses talking about traits of a "unicorn" (a name given long before the horse-like western interpretation largely inspired by tales of rhinoceros, which distinctly has two horns).
Sodom and Gomorrah (complete with fire and brimstone meteorites), the lineage of David, the discovery of human giants, the ark of the covenant, the hill Jesus was crucified on, and the entire archaeological history of the nation of Israel would like a word with you on that.
Every single evil you've listed here is born from human error and human choice. It is explicitly stated multiple times that the Christian God did not want humanity to blindly follow whatever we told him to do, he wanted us to have the ability to disobey if we so chose. Every single act of rape, murder, terrorism, abuse, and bigotry of any kind are a result of that fundamental choice to rebel. That innate human "flaw" that's been there since we discovered right and wrong, the part that wants to see how far we can go. But just because those horrific sins exist doesn't mean that the world is corrupt enough for God to assert his presence again. As bad as it is today, it's been far worse historically.
I guess that's why it seems like God isn't doing anything, and for that I empathize with your doubts. It can be frustrating to know that there is an omnipotent creator that doesn't openly boast his existence and enforce universal peace. However, that premise is flawed from the start.
I personally subscribe to the theory that humanity was never made to be at peace, at least not how most envision that result. The ideal world should never be devoid of conflict, because ending all conflict would mean the destruction of free thought and free will. Forcing people to obey rules without letting them discover why those rules exist is meaningless and only breeds contempt. It's better to change someone from the inside out than from the outside in, and that change takes time. Nothing worth anything comes without a lot of work.
The first time God left humanity to their own devices, their civilization became so wicked that he could barely stand to witness it. As bad as you think it is today, imagine a world where only one family on the entire planet was righteous. So He pulled a hard reset, and destroyed everything except that one family to start over.
The second time God left humanity to their own devices, they forgot about him. They decided that they were the ultimate being, and decided to unite to build a monument to their own power. This is equivalent to a teenager deciding he's the one that owns the house and rebuilding the whole architecture to suit him. So, God took away our cell phones and sent us- metaphorically -to the four corners of the Earth. There's your answer as to why segregation exists.
The Global Flood, the Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah. Every time humanity becomes wicked or rebellious enough, God has and WILL directly intervene. And we as a race only have one more chance before Earth is scrapped for good, and all of our pains and tears are completely removed. How that will be accomplished is up for debate, but God will never, EVER enforce complete "peace" onto the world. He is fundamentally against conformity, because he created us with the mechanics in place so that no two people are ever identical. Conflicting ideologies, limited segregation and labels are all inevitable results of that.
With all that said, God has then, now and will continue to work with humanity on an individual level. And the choices of the individual will forever effect the world at large. So even though it isn't obvious, God is working every day to help us, and do it through those who pledge to serve him.
This is perhaps the easiest one to answer. Your prayers fall on listening ears. Sometimes the answer is "Yes," sometimes it's "No," and others it's simply "Wait, it's not time yet".
Yes, this. So much of this.
That is an extremely reasonable look on things.
Nor should it. It is advised to consult the writer if you have questions, because a book can be taken out of context, misinterpreted, and misquoted.
No disagreement here, both of those are equally ridiculous and immature solutions to petty problems.
Absolutely. None of this is insulting, insensitive or offensive in any regard.
He's also a man who talks to Springtrap and dies in a time loop. Suffice it to say the film plays with reality a little.
Not a course of action I'd ever encourage, even if the exposure of such horrid actions is definitely a net good. The ends do not justify the means.
Not by itself, no. Words spoken in solitude only have so much power. Prayer is best paired with action. "Practice what you preach" and all that. You can either act upon how you pray, or ask for guidance on how to act. Ideally both.
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. See above answer.
The only thing I'd slam you for is a bit of pretentiousness, but I openly embrace my own pretentiousness so that would be hypocritical.
God Bless you, man. I hope I was able to give a little perspective.
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Amethyst. Seriously. Become a philosopher. I imagine you as a professor at a university sometimes, a highly-educated, formal lecturer. I love the way you describe things and give responses half the time.
Donnie Darko is confusing, yes, but do you want me to describe the ending, in case you didn't catch onto it? Donnie could travel through time, so the events did happen in what the film calls the Tangent Universe, but then he traveled back to the Primary Universe after the main events where he was in his room, right before the jet engine fell through the ceiling and killed him. He did it for the following reason: if he died, although his family would be distraught by it, the ones he cared about wouldn't get hurt. Gretchen wouldn't have been killed by the car, etc.
Carbon dating isn't based on assumptions. It really isn't. At best, it can't give an exact date, but it can provide a close estimate or approximate answer, while not being definitive. Besides, isn't the same said about a lie detector? So many factors can flunk a test, including heart rate and depending on if the person is on any medication that might alter their blood pressure / heart rate. Besides, that comparison aside, it's still got a place in science, which has proven to be useful in several cases.
Tell me: what hill was Jesus crucified on? Better yet, what happened to the cross he was hung on? We've found remains of ancient wooden objects, but I don't recall a discovery of the supposed crucifix. Aren't Sodom and Gomorrah and the rest of the people in the bible based on mythology? I don't believe in any of that stuff, and it has been made clear over the years that most Christians have often referred to a natural act of nature, a flood, a meteor shower or disasters involving fires and earthquakes ''a sign from God'', and, if I'm being completely honest with you, it irks me massively. Any excuse to call it a sign from God. It pisses me off at times, actually.
Uh...who's Springtrap?
I'm the worst person when it comes to names. Still, did you notice that Seth Rogen was in the film? He was one of the bullies. His appearance in the film took me a bit by surprise; not the kind of role I pictured him to be playing.
But yes, Amethyst, you know what kind of person I am. I'm a realist and a man of science. I don't believe in stuff that I have no factual, solid and / or documented evidence of. A book doesn't count, especially when it is a bunch of mostly-contradicting stories that sum up to ''believe it because I told you so.'' If I believed every single thing I read in a book, I'm pretty sure I'd be insane by now. Unless you've got true facts you can present to me, backed up by science that checks out with the story, then I'm not going to have much else to say because my argument will stand.
That's just me, though. I'm a bit like Twilight when it comes to understanding Pinkie Sense - if I can't scientifically find an explanation that logically describes what I'm being told or that I'm witnessing, then I'm not going to accept it as a factual piece of the world I live in or that it exists. Again, not to beat anybody up over their beliefs or anything, but that's what I'm getting at.
(Dude, seriously, you've got me curious. You're Christian, that much is clear, but I have to ask, out of nothing more than curiosity - do you, or most Christians, actually own a bible you keep in your home or your room and do you often study it and / or recite it every day or night? I've always been so curious about that!
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Given a proper script or a subject I'm familiar with, I can be very persuasive. That mental image is flattering, to say the least.
Yeah, I didn't understand shit in Darko.
I can have it explained to me and still think it's contrived.
It's based off of the assumption that we can reasonably determine the amount of carbon that was in a given life form at the time of its death, given that how it functions is detecting the amount of carbon-14 left behind in an organism.
Yes, because all those types of tests can be cheated/tampered with/inconclusive. Not an apt comparison by any means, but relevant enough.
Agree to disagree there. Any test made from a faulty premise is something I will always take issue with.
Golgotha, it's a fairly popular tourist attraction I think.
As far as the cross itself, I don't know. Frankly I don't think that's important anyways, it's not like it was imbued with magical powers or anything. For all I know the Romans could've thrown it away it the day after.
... No, no they aren't. For one, Sodom and Gomorrah are places, not people. Cities destroyed by fire and brimstone from the sky, which was also found.
Every location and person described in the Bible has been widely accepted to be historically accurate, with the exception of Eden and Noah. The "religious" aspect of the Bible's events are subject to debate, but I'll bet my life you can find non-Christian/gentile verification for events in the Bible throughout history.
Yes, when people assign natural disasters to an act of God when it was clearly nothing of the sort, that irks me too. Some are, some aren't. But that's not for us to decide, and the people that claim it without proper evidence frustrate me to no end. I just choose to ignore them like most sensible people.
FNaF character, dead child murderer in a bunny suit.
Who's Seth Rogen?
I... still don't understand when the Bible contradicts itself. Context is extremely important to a lot of what is said in it, and a lot of what people have pointed out as "contradictory" is easily explained with just a few hours of reading.
And it's because of that that I know I'm not the person to answer these questions. I retain philosophical concepts more than detail-oriented debates. I can tell you the basic premise of what I know for certain about the science behind it, but I'm useless at remembering where or how I learned it.
Admittedly I'm not as familiar with the Bible as I should be, and I do seriously need to study it more. But I do own one... somewhere.
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When it comes to Sodom and Gomorrah, I only know those names because I was a Fallout fan. There's a casino on the New Vegas Strip in Fallout: New Vegas called Gomorrah, a strip club / casino / whore house. It has a section in it named 'Brimstone', and the whole place is based around the sin of lust, themed with fire and all things kinky. (I had a pleasant stay there, myself!
I...I might need a break from this friendship, Amethyst.
Have you ever seen Paul, with Simon Pegg and Nick Frost? Seth Rogen does the voice of Paul. Your absence of knowledge on this comedy actor surprises me very seriously, also meaning that you've not seen Superbad. Seth Rogen plays a cop alongside Bill Hader. The film also stars Michael Cera and Jonah Hill and Emma Stone, with Christopher Mintz-Plasse. Have you at least heard of any of them? In this day and age, it would surprise me very much so if you haven't!
I don't mean for it to sound bad, but that comment I posted as a response to you when I listed off and went into intimate detail on why I can't stand the concept of religion, especially Christianity, which is the one I grew up being forced to believe? I stand by my points. A lot of stuff I was told during assemblies made no sense on me because it all sounded stupid. You're old enough to know magic isn't real, yes? It's an illusion.
Think about it like this - did you hear about that world fair project that the real Dr Frankenstein attended to show off 'reanimating the dead' by zapping a body with thousands of volts of electricity to make the audience believe he was bringing a dead man back to life? That was an illusion. People were scared by it because they didn't understand how the nerves in the human body reacted when sparked with huge amounts of electricity.
What I'm getting at is that what seemed like devine miracles, acts of God, etc, they don't sound real. The concept is the same as my above reason - back then, way before Frankenstein, nobody knew anything about most things we have an expanded, advanced knowledge of today. They were so uneducated that they thought the sun was a sphere of life they needed to appease by sacrificing animals and often children, the same was the Aztecs did. I don't know if this makes any sense to you or what I'm driving at, but do you at least get the gist of where I'm coming from with this?
I have to view things logically, even if it might spark a controversial debate. If I can't give a history or context on something, then how am I going to understand it, exactly?
Oh, PS - If you're confused about Donnie Darko, here's a summary for you to tell you what happened - media.discordapp.net/attachments/422825818356449282/679982359000383505/donnie_darko_summary.jpg
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Hopefully it wasn't anything like the real location. Years of rape, pedophilia, necrophilia, zoophilia, sodomy (hence the name), all of it running rampant in the cities. That's the whole reason it was destroyed.
Only film I've seen him in is Kung Fu Panda.
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I'm sorry you feel that Christianity is comparable to sleight of hand.
That's a bold claim. It's true that people have been historically stupid, but I'd stake my soul on the fact that people are just as ignorant today as they ever have been.
And the Bible itself contains passages talking about things that science supposedly didn't discover until far later. (Undersea currents, light causing wind, spherical earth [part of why flat-earthers annoy me when they try to use the Bible], why the sky is blue, water erosion, etc.)
And nowadays we have people that believe the earth is flat. Or that if you follow a certain religion you get more than one heart (or whatever it is). Or that a child born with a "tail" is the embodiment of a monkey god. Also that stabbing your friend as a sacrifice for Slenderman is a good idea. Or that you have to pay God to get into Heaven. Or that the "Earth's Spirit" wants you to have sex with dirt. OR that the sun is a hologram. Or that vaccines turn you gay. Or, for certain groups of Christians, people believe you can predict the date of the end of the world... a feat which the Bible itself says is impossible because even Jesus isn't privy to that information.
Humanity is just as gullible and uninformed now as we have ever been.
I do understand. I'm a little disappointed, but I do understand.
I've tried to explain the history and context of your questions where I know the answer, so I'm not sure what you mean here.
Again, if you're looking for a more scientific explanation for elements of Christianity or Biblical history, I think you might be surprised with what you find. But, like I said, I'm not yet the person to answer those kinds of questions in any satisfactory way.
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He was also in Sausage Party. He's the voice of Frank.
Probably why we've never learned from our mistakes. We're a stupid bunch of morons. I hate when you find these muppets online where they believe that Slenderman is real! How low does your IQ have to be?! It's a creepy pasta made by some person on the internet; much like The Rake and Skunk Ape. All stuff in that field is completely fabricated and bogus. If a person believes it, then I have no idea if it's useful to waste my time telling them how stupid they are. Swoosh.
Oh, you hate flat earthers, too? We have the Hubble Telescope, it's out there floating in the atmosphere and it takes pictures of Earth, very clearly showing it is a blue sphere. Alas, there's always got to be some excuse, literally anything, that they'd say to keep their claim that it's flat if it makes them feel smart. I'll say it: the whole sacrifice idea in terms of religion to appease a god to me is ridiculous because it solves nothing, but if a case opens up where people want to offer a sacrifice, can we pick the flat earthers first, Amethyst???
I call first dibs on picking!
Oh, no, no, I wasn't talking about me refusing to believe what you've told me without factual and / or logical evidence that fully explains it! I was actually talking about when it comes to anything in the world, not strictly what is mentioned in the bible. I'm a man of science, you see. I've always been like that, which is why I only stick to what I know because I at least understand it enough to accept it.
EXTRA NOTE: Amethyst, I don't think I've told you this before, but you might be interested to know about it - when I was in secondary school during my first or second year, every student was handed a bible when they were leaving assembly. I got one, and it was a tiny red-backed one. So, yes, I did indeed own my own mini bible in my favourite colour. I admit that I read a little of it, too. (It's literature, and I like literature. Stalemate.
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Well, I never saw Sausage Party, so...
Mind, I do partially buy into some cryptids. Champ, Mokele Mbembe and some instances of sasquatch are too similar to other animal encounters and too well-documented to be dismissed as madness so easily. We haven't discovered everything.
But when it comes to the supernatural (i.e. Rake, Slenderman, Black-Eyed children, etc.) I'm far more skeptical. Just because I believe in things a lot of people deem to be impossible or illogical doesn't mean I'm gullible enough to buy everything I hear.
I wouldn't say I hate them, no. I find their existence frustrating, especially when they used The Sacred Jedi Texts™ (I've been waiting to use that meme
) to justify their stupidity as if doesn't repeatedly contradict them. For goodness' sake, a portion of them say physics are demonic! PHYSICS! The rules of the universe that the Bible explicitly states as placed there by God! Can you be any more or a twit?
I don't hate them, but I find their ignorance massively entertaining.
I understand,
Oh, absolutely! I'd recommend even reading it from a literature/historical standpoint too. The way the entire thing interlocks like a massive quilt despite it being penned over a hundreds of years by around 40 different people is beyond beautiful. There are no questions left unintentionally unanswered.