Does it make all my views on superhero fiction invalid for saying, “Yes. I liked Man of Steel?” I mean, I know the film has flaws. Glaring flaws, actually. Much like The Dark Knight Rises, I feel like the script was almost there. It just needed one more revision and it would’ve been perfect. Yet I still liked it.

For example, I wish Zod had more sinister motivations like how he was in the Christopher Reeve films. That way, Superman wouldn’t have to come off as such a jerk. Zod had good reasons and noble intentions for doing the things he did in the film, but that’s not something you do when you’re the antagonist in your movie! If Zod came off as more tyrannical in this view of restoring Krypton to its former glory, I think people would appreciate him more as a villain. He shouldn’t see humanity as “people” compared to his race. Zod should have seen them as ants, something that doesn’t even deserve to exist alongside vastly superior beings.

I’m also well aware that Man of Steel suffers from being an origin story. Like Batman Begins, it’s a very slow burn because it has to start from the ground up again. But then you get to the second half of the film where Zod and his forces are threatening Martha Kent’s life. She just bravely stares them down then Clark just comes out of nowhere and sends Zod through half of Smallville and this big fight starts up how could you not love this!? The climax is so tense and the final fight between Superman and Zod is so epic and GAH!

But all these don’t validate what came before it. I think that’s what a lot of people think is the problem with Man of Steel. The second half just sweeps it all under the rug in favor of glorious, glorious destructive awesome. Not everyone can buy into that. I get it. But yet… somehow, I did. I stand by my word that I enjoyed Man of Steel. It established a fresh tone on a character that desperately needed it. I can appreciate that. But I can also understand why the film turned a lot of people off. I can see the flaws people make. But I still liked it. I still liked Man of Steel.

So I ask you all… should I feel bad for still liking it?

2638368
Of course not, every one in the planet has his right to like and dislike whatever they want, also Man of Steel is an actual good movie. Granted it has a little too much symbolism, but still is pretty good made.

(sorry if bad english, problems with browser's dictionary)

2638368 I still like it. It has its flaws, but I still find it enjoyable (the end gave me some ideas on the final battle in Mare of Steel, and that's always a plus)

2638395

NOSTALGIA CRITIC: "I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS! I AM JESUS!"

I somewhat agree. Heck, I like Jesus and consider myself a Christian, and even I think the Savior Symbolism was a bit TOO much, though mostly I was just afraid that people would complain about it.

2638368 Nope. I don't feel bad and I like it

2638368 I liked it.

2638458 Oh, I know! If it wasn't for Man of Steel, I wouldn't have gotten the courage to start Among Gods in the first place! And the ending does give me some ideas for how to wrap it up too!

It's just weird for me to like something that's so polarizing with so many flaws. Like, many people give Arkham Origins a lot of flak, but I enjoyed the hay out of it! Because you wanna know why? Because it was another damn Arkham game! Those are always great games!

2638461
That was actually pretty funny, but also remember what Joe said, the movie is more about the idea of Superman than the character itself so the over symbolism was expected.

For me Man o Steel is between "masterpiece" and "guilty pleasure" mostly the former than the later.

2638502 I can agree to that. I still haven't gotten to that review, though. I probably should...

2638515
You will like it, like most of NC's review there isn't an absolute good or bad review, also seeing the critic and Joe reviewing the movie from both sides of the spectrum gives the review a very wide view of things.

2638461 They were a bit heavy handed on the symbolism (I always imagined Supes to be more like Moses than Jesus), but I didn't hear a lot of complaints about that (then again, I might not have been paying attention)

2638540 Yeah, it's something like an hour right?

2638553
But it worth every second:

2638368

"It established a fresh tone on a character that desperately needed it..."

In the pop culture and in film.

If you wanted to be intellectually honest, that tone or the basis for that tone has been there for a while now in the comics. But like how people had it in there heads that Batman was like The Adam West show even in the 80's until The Dark Knight Returns and Batman 1989 and thought that was the ONLY valid interpretation of the character even though even in the 60's Batman wasn't that awesomely campy, I think a lot of the criticism comes from one of two things:

1. That the Chris Reeves/Silver Age 50's interpretation is the only valid interpretation.

2. That Superman, a, well, Superman, had to resort to killing Zod in order to stop him.

To the first, I'd say that, while I do think Chris Reeves' and the Silver Age Superman are a ton of fun, iconic, and valid interpretations of the character, I'd say that the one from Man of Steel is as well.

To the second I'd say I could go either way on. As someone who believes in anti-recidivism, I am not against a villain being put to death for his or her actions, especially if it's a super powered menace that cannot be contained otherwise. What I am AGAINST is it becoming a COMMON thing for heroes, especially Superman, instead of a blue moon thing, ESPECIALLY if it's because of the same messed up Justice system that keeps letting most villains live only to inevitably break out of revolving door prisons that doesn't have the balls to put down the continually unrepentant criminals that make large cities so dangerous in Super Hero Universes. I don't like it when a hero is the one who has to act as executioner and is CRITICIZED for it when it's the FAULT OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM for letting said villain out again and FORCING said hero into a 'Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' type of sitiation.

Because of this, I am not against Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel. Most of my problems with that come from how that idea was executed. I just HOPE that in the sequel, that him killing Zod serves as the set-up for the MoS Universe's Superman's no-kill code and that he can follow it consistently, because MoS sets that up SO WELL that I hope they don't ruin that because of all of the characters they seem to want to throw in there.

So, yeah.

2638549

He's a Moses and Christ combination. In the comics, the latter bit is probably the most emphasized when he rises again on the third day after battling Doomsday.

2638619 That's what I'm hoping for too, actually. You can clearly see that Clark didn't want to kill Zod in the end, but he had to otherwise, he would've killed a LOT more people. I mean, that scream meant something. I remember the emotion behind it. Luckily, we DO have a sequel coming up ALSO starring a hero with a famous no-kill policy. So maybe he can possibly get that through to Supes.

2638660

That's part of why I liked the scene too. Unlike what we see in a lot of other Superhero movies, especially the ones of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Superman isn't Iron Man or Thor. He actually has some remorse, and by some, I mean A LOT for having to kill his enemy, the only other Kryptonian besides him, and THAT is Superman! Though the family was scared retarded and maybe Supes could have lifted Zod out of the way or something, and maybe they could have done a better job of establishing that killing was a big deal for him, THAT is Superman!

However, I don't share your rather unfounded optimism about the sequel. I mean, I MIGHT if they didn't decide to make Wondie AND THE OLYMPIAN GODS KRYPTONIANS!

THOSE BASTARDS!

2638778 Uh.... are you sure we've been following the same movie news here? Because I've heard everything from including Nightwing to Sinestro of all people being in it!

It's like people WANT to see it fail or something...

2638835

Hey Grave, I'm sorry for what happened between us a few months back. I forgive you and hope you can do the same for me as well.

Are you implying I'M one of those people who want to see it fail?

Need I remind you: WONDIE AND HER ENTIRE BACK STORY ARE BEING DESECRATED AND TURNED INTO KRYPTONIANS!

2638855 Oh, that's perfectly fine, mate! I forgive you too! All water under the bridge!

And no, I'm not saying you're one of those people. Personally, I'm trying to stay away from news regarding the sequel because it's getting really hard to differentiate between honest fact and bogus rumor. It's the same reason why I'm holding my enthusiasm on Star Wars Episode VII. I'm still looking forward to it and excited as all get-out. But I'm not going to take whatever I find as truth. I'm still ready to criticize these films, but not let my hype or lack-thereof cloud my judgement.

2638855 Is this true, or is it a rumor?
because if it is true

Now I need to go drive a tent stake into my brain

2638855 And what is this about Diana's backstory being turned Kryptonian? Like... is she going to have a similar origin tale now? Like... is she just going to be the last of her kind or is it going to be implied that the Gods the Amazons worshiped were ancient Kryptonians or something?

2638934

No matter what the details are, IF the Olympians are turned into Kryptonians, I'm going to cap a bitch. The same thing is going to happen if they just go the Clarke's Law Route for the Olympians and Diana like they did for The Agardians and Diana.

2638959 Regardless, I'm still on a wait-and-see view on it. I'm still excited for it, but I'm just as cautious as I am hyped as hell.

2638998

So, when do you think we'll actually see a teaser?

2639004 Well, considering the film was pushed back a year, I'd say either the end of this year or the middle of next.

2639033

Part of me feels darned that they can't make it in time to meet the challenge of Avengers 2: Age of Ultron, but part of me feels relieved that they have more time now to get it right.

2639123 I know, I'm the same way for it. Yeah, it sucks that it got pushed back. But that also means they can make it even better in time.

And maybe they'll realize Amazonian Gods as Kryptonians is a bad idea.

2639139

Speaking of Avengers 2: Age of Ultron, what have you heard so far about it?

2639123 Not a lot, actually. I know what happens in Ant-Man is supposed to play a huge role in it, though. But considering Hank Pym made Ultron in the first place, that's not surprising.

Also, can you send me your Skype again, man? I seem to have misplaced it...

2639186

No worries! I unblocked ya!

2639186

Do we have any idea how big the scale of the movie is?

2639193 Awesome! I still have my old Skype name. As always, it's gr4vem1nd.

2639199

I know! That's why you're showing up now!