The Break Away Collab Group 29 members · 1 stories
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Moosetasm
Group Contributor

Here is the gdocs link to the first draft.

Edit: I understand it's a really rough first draft.

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

6010539
At the first reading, this felt incredibly generic. The Doctor feels like any quirky genius, and it was hard to assign a specific consistent voice to him.

The Amulet's attempts are terrible, and while you do point out how bad it's doing in the story itself, it doesn't actually make the temptations less ineffective. Neither the Doctor nor the Amulet change as a result of this chapter.

Why not use the third Doctor? After all, he has both an actual thing for the Amulet to tempt him with (Freedom from Earth) and has more roots than his other incarnations. Moreover, his (relative) inexperience would put him on a more even footing with the Amulet.

Sollace
Group Contributor

6010539
Comments aren't enabled on the doc, but:

The Doctor smiled and headed towards another door that he had intuited would lead him to the containment chamber. “Right! Alon—”

Intuited?

in·tu·it
inˈt(y)o͞oət/
verb
past tense: intuited; past participle: intuited

understand or work out by instinct.
"I intuited his real identity"

Seems an obscure word choice...

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

The Doctor slammed the door shut behind himself and pointed his screwdriver at it. The device emitted whirring sound and there was a click in indicating the door had locked.

Why is he running in like he was being chased by something, and why did he lock the door behind him?

Twilight Sparkle gave one of the most strained laughs the Doctor had ever heard, which was saying a lot. “Doctor! What are you talking about? I mean, no reason really...”
 
“Well, if it’s because security isn't here after that gorgeous light pink mare over there— love that mane, Miss?”
 
“B— Breakthrough?” The poor mare sounded shocked and confused at his sudden focus on her.
 
“Yes, if you're worried that security isn’t here even after Breakthrough there mashed the big red lockdown button—” He looked back at the mare again. “It’s fine that you did that, I did just kind of barge in here—” He switched back to face Princess Twilight again. “Also I might have disabled the alarm so I could improve the wards and other security measures.”
 
“WHAT?!” Obviously Twilight didn't appreciate his efforts.
 
“Oh, please; The improvements I've made will make it much easier to detect and respond to breaches.”

While the Doctor so much smarter than everyone else that this is believable, it also comes at the expense of other characters. Making one side look bad is the worst sin a crossover can commit. Having the Amulet work the Doctor over more would help even things out a little.

You go well out of your way to work in Jelly Babies, Davids catchphrase, and a machine that goes "ping" (when the actual reference would be "Ding") and they aren't very seamless.

“Hrmm. Simple design. Very clever. Nopony would ever expect that you were some all-powerful, mind-bending artifact.”

One, according to Grammarly, the bolded words should by hyphenated on the Doc. Two... The Amulet looks really freaking evil.

It's spelled Allons-y.

Your mind scan must not be a very thorough one since it just assumed that I'd have it on me.

Why is is being so lazy? You're making it look bad to make the Doctor look good, and he shouldn't need that to look good.

“Oh, yes. I refuse to put another proverbial nail into your equally proverbial coffin unless I find you to be utterly irredeemable or a threat to ponykind.”

But he doesn't make an actual effort to help the Amulet at all. My Pinkie Pie chapter had Pinkie use her intelligence to learn about the Amulet and try and convince it to become good.

Amulet Sparkle’s voice turned sultry as she continued. “With my power, you could force others to stop. Force them to see her as you do. We can make them worship her, like she deserves.”

The Doctor can do this without help anyway.

if I were a Mareican

... :trixieshiftright:

“No!” Amulet Sparkle’s voice was now confident again, certain even. “We can just fix her!”

This is so far away from what the Doctor wants, that I have no idea why it would even try. We can do better than this.

Breakthrough and Eureka looked at each other. They mashed the lockdown button together.

Why?

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6010624
6010627
6010603

Sorry, commenting enabled.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6010603
You mean Matt Smith Doctor or Tom Baker Doctor?

Edit: wait a minute... Baker is 4th Doctor.

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

6010796
I'd suggest Baker because he's very diffrent from Tennat and Smith, if you decide against Jon Pertwee.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6010627
That's a lot of comment. :applejackunsure:
Well, she is a work in progress. Maybe if I could settle on one Doctor. I am planning on tweaking a bit. I'm keeping the final attempt as a drastic misstep on the Amulet's part, but the other two are definitely up for alteration.
As for the comments:
Tennant Doctor is incapable of walking or entering a room normally, I think.
Yeah, regular flustered Twilight somehow became comic relief incompetent. I need to either dial that back or have her provide some of the needed exposition.
I'm a walking bag of poorly remembered references. I refrained from the Resting Laurels and Hardy Constitution reference with the guards in the chamber.
Machine that goes ping, does in fact go *Ping*: https://youtu.be/arCITMfxvEc Unless submarines don't *ping.*
Yeah, those do need hyphens.
I've seen it spelled too many different ways to count. :derpyderp2:
I don't think it's lazy so much as unused to dealing with such a long life span. I need to double check to see if Luna's turn is before the Doctor. It's probably getting changed out anyways for a closer to making the Doctor lose attempt.
In my experience, the Doctor never helps anyone/anything until they've proved they are worth saving. The Doctor is incredibly cruel in many instances.
He could, but he won't. But the amulet may only be able to sense what someone wants, but not how they want to get it. That's why it's so close on what he wants, but so far off the mark on the methods.
:trollestia:
They pushed the button the first time, it's their go to reaction? Or it was for cheap laughs? *Shrug* I was already late and needed a closing.

6011191
I was trying to go Tennant, hence the manic manner the constantly cutting off his own observations with other observations and the constant running even if there is nothing to run from or to.

I think the Jelly Babies thing originated back with either Pertwee or Baker, but it's been over 5 years since I've had access to the original series. I was reminded of it when Capaldi Doctor offered one to a kid. I don't even know if I can get the Baker Mannerisms inserted into there, the only part of the original series I own is Pyramids of Mars.

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

6011237

In my experience, the Doctor never helps anyone/anything until they've proved they are worth saving. The Doctor is incredibly cruel in many instances.

Well, there's a lot of different ways of looking at him, but I've always felt that his vengeful god moments were side effects of him being the last of the Time Lords. They're an extension of his PTSD and ego and needed to be grown out of. And Capaldi sort of has, I guess.

That's why it's so close on what he wants, but so far off the mark on the methods.

Here's the biggest problem I had: it's not that close to what he wants. When you strip away everything from the Doctor, he's a man who will go through anything to save people. This version of Ditzy is incredibly competent, which undercuts the Amulets claims, and I feel like a real temptation for him would have a bigger scope.

The Jelly Baby's were first used by Patrick Troughton in The Three Doctors and became Tom Baker's thing. I'd be more than happy to help edit the Doctor's dialogue if you'd like. Baker is fun.

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

Test for Tom Baker. See if you like it.



The pony defied simple explanation. He was tall, only a little shorter than Celestia, with big curly hair and a hat that only added to his height. Despite that, he'd managed to find a scarf that was several sizes too big and Twilight found herself constantly distracted by wondering at what point he was finally going to trip over it. He grinned, managing to show all of his teeth and seem charming all at once, a less-than-easy feat. And of course, he was possibly the most annoying individual Twilight had met.

Twilight had turned a shade of crimson. “Rubbish? Rubbish?!?? Those warding crystals are hoof crafted! I personally—”
 
“Attuned each crystal to what you thought was the most efficient magical frequency, yes?” The Doctor asked, idly hoofed one of the delicate cakes into his mouth. He made a face as it went down and set the cakes down quietly.
 
“—Yes. How did you know that?”

“Oh, just a lucky guess, I suppose,” he said around the tiny cake. “I'm rather good at guessing things... for instance, if each crystal were attuned to a similar frequency, then I would have to guess that they were sending signals to one another, to prevent the wards from contradicting one another. And of course, if that were true, why then I'd have to guess that I could trigger a shut down by simply forcing one of them to send faulty information." He took notice of her expression and frowned. "Oh, you shouldn't feel so bad! After all, it was very impressive, in a quaint sort of way."
 
Twilight, being friends to both Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash, easily digested the rapid-fire speech and nearly-polite concision. 'And I suppose you went and fixed it."

The Doctor grinned again. It wasn't as big as a Pinkie Pie Grin, but darned if he wasn't close. "Yes, exactly! There's no need to thank me, of course; I'm incredibly humble and easily embarrassed."

Twilight ignored that. "You do realize that you are the one we need to contain, right."

"Yes, I'd rather noticed that."

"And of course somepony—"

"Someone, miss." The Doctor actually looked offended. "There's no need to be rude."

"...Someone, then." Twilight stammered a little before getting back on track. "Someone as clever as you would have noticed that if you know what the security is, then it can't actually contain you."

"...Ah." The Doctor pondered that for a moment. "Well. In my defense, it's not as if they had any chance of stopping me to begin with."

Twilight sighed.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6011388
Hrmmm. I think I meant saving the threats. He does go out of his way to save humans, and he isn't burdened by xenophobia, so he's always willing to attempt to hear aliens out or see if there's an ulterior motive that can be accomplished sans "destroy all humans."
I don't even think I touched on Ditzy at all... yet. Although FoME's chapter has her as being both, I think in a sense of being so incompetent that they have gone beyond the need for competency.
Anywho, my whole inspiration for the chapter revolves around him telling the Amulet off.

6011394
I loved Baker. Makes me wish I had a working VHS while they were still on. Or that I had the direct tv box from my last house, where I'd recorded who knows how many. I'm going to take some time to look it over here.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6011394
Yes, I see it. And the "I'm not a pony, you all look time-lord" reference. Hrmmm it has a lot of merit.

Comment posted by Crack-Fic Casey deleted Jul 6th, 2017
Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6012109
Ugh.. I need to take a class in getting my point across correctly or something... I didn't base my chapter off him wailing on the Amulet like a cheap air guitar. I based it around the final line there, "she's perfect just the way she is."

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

6012352
Sorry, okay...
I've been working under the assumption the Amulet gained sapience by interacting with other minds, and since it gains Bearers by subjecting them to intense psychological stress, its view of people is a bit warped. Maybe lean a little more on Blue and Orange Morality, or something akin to it?

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6012638
Ooooh, blue & orange is a good way to take it. The Amulet may not understand that you can wear a tie AND eat your bacon at the same time. My original idea, which I couldn't write properly at the time, was that the amulet successfully tempts him on the second try but then gets it wrong with the whole "we can even fix her" thing. It understands the problem but not the acceptable solution... Edit: Or it just doesn't understand that it is or isn't possible to do certain things certain ways.

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

6012914
There is one other potential problem: FoME's Ditzy Doo chapter had her overcome the Amulet through sheer competency. It's a bit of a strain that she's so looked down on here.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

I don't really make her look incompetent in mine, I'm pretty sure I go straight to the Doctor telling the Amulet that Derpy tore it a new one. The Amulet has that blue va orange dissonance that doesn't allow it to recognize that you can have wall eyes and still be competent. To the Amulet, a defect is a defect and the pony in question like that requires fixing or disposal.

As far as the derision Derpy gets from others, it has nothing to do with her competence. It has everything to do with old fashioned prejudice and fear of that which is different.

Anywho, I think I have a good temptation which falls more in line the Doctor. And I'm going to re-work the first temptation so that all of the "mistakes" on the Amulet's part are actually ploys on its part to take advantage of the Doctor's own feeling of superiority. The Doctor loves to be full of himself, so having a first "failure" followed by the Doctor allowing it "another go" would be pre-planned on the Amulet's part. So, mental chess match, who is more moves ahead? No one.
I'm reminded of One of the Civilization wonders, the ESP Center:
"I know what you're thinking"
"I know that you know what I'm thinking."
"I know that you know that I know what you're thinking."

So, that leaves the actual Doctor temptation being the redemption of the Amulet. Even though it has no concept of what that means. So it slips up while going through what it believes to be positive behavior. Possibly much like Master in the episodes leading to and the finale this season.

Crack-Fic Casey
Group Contributor

6016838
That sounds really good, but maybe read the Pinkie Pie chapter first to make sure that the two of them aren't the same chapter.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6016892
Well, this may allow for some growth on the Doctor's part. The Amulet would play on his feelings of superiority. The Doctor is always looking out for others but he has a bad habit of thinking of other people as children.

cleverpun
Group Admin

Alright, finished going over the chapter. Before I explain my criticisms, let me start by saying that I don't like Doctor Who and I don't like crossovers. I'm judging the chapter as a story, not as a crossover or fanfiction of a different franchise.

With that said, I think other commenters already said most of the things I would have already. Doctor Whooves doesn't feel like much of a character; he's more like a mishmash of references, without much defining personality. His excessive competence makes the other characters look bad. And most importantly, the chapter lacks any true conflict. He talks to the Amulet for a little bit and then nothing much happens.

I think the first thing you need to consider is what good making Doctor Whooves an export of one of the actual Doctors is doing you. I don't think rehashing one of them is going to accomplish much, especially in a short, focused character piece like this. Making him Doctor Whooves--his own character that takes cues from Doctor Who rather than copies it--will give you a lot more freedom in how you portray him and his conflict.

I also think that your comment here 6017167 may be a good angle. After all, the way the chapter is now, the defining trait of his personality is that he is (or thinks he is) better than everyone. Making that the main aspect of his temptation would fit well. Perhaps you could try something similar to the Rainbow Dash chapter; He pokes and prods and examines the Amulet, and nothing happens. When he starts to get annoyed that he can't figure it out, the Amulet offers to tell him what he's doing wrong. Or something like that.

Overall, I definitely agree with 6010603's sentiment that this "feels generic"; neither Doctor Whooves nor the plot have any truly defining characteristics.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6025181
Yes, the chapter is in a very rough form currently. I was rushed to get it done even a day late, so a lot of it is bare or stream of thought. Doc got a quick Tennant paint job, and I put down the scenes just to have an order of events.

For the framework changes, the big one is going to be to temptation #2, both how it is implemented and in how the Doctor gives into his own hubris and arrogance. He thinks the Amulet is pathetic after its obvious fail for attempt #1, which is a ploy on its part, and let it do it's worst. It will refuse, ask the Doctor what it means to be saved and if it can be. The Doctor will then end up following that train of thought to the idea that if it is saved that it could be used.

I'll be removing temptation #3. #2 is going to keep going until he realizes that he would become a monster.

I'll be putting in some flaws for the Doctor. I wasn't intending for him to be some kind of infallible figure. I only managed to write the things I wanted him to get done, so it's very one sided. I definitely need to go back and flesh it out with proper responses on the part of other characters.

Needless to say, extensive re-write.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6011394
Mind having a look at the preface for Baker flavor? I've borrowed or outright stolen some of your suggestions, but I'm... unsure. It's been a while since that series.

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6025181
Well, it's in it's final form right now. I'm not going to be changing any story elements unless there's a paragraph out of place or something. It might get one more grammar review before the day is out.

When were you going to do the copy-overs?

cleverpun
Group Admin

6135563 Today/tonight

cleverpun
Group Admin

6010539 Your chapter is now posted

Moosetasm
Group Contributor

6186114
Tyvm. :twilightsmile:

Seems to have gone over well, not seeing any dislike/hate comments.

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