Logic Prevails 48 members · 10 stories
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Gapeagle
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Well, I've been wanting to write this question for a long time. Ever since Starlight came on the show to be exact.

Here it is: is the cutie mark a good thing for society?

Now before you say "yeah" just think a bit about it. Think about everything the show has shown thus far on cutie marks. From all evidence and discussions on cutie marks, one can define them as this:

"A cutie mark is a pony's personal symbol of destiny, talent, and/or occupation that is earned after a special moment in their life, usually at a young age."

Doesn't sound too bad, does it? Well, maybe it's not. However, think of everything a cutie mark has caused in the show thus far. It became everything that defined the CMC. For an unknown amount of time, they scrambled about, worrying everyday of their precious childhood about it. Look at Troubleshoes, it gave him self-hate for most of his life. Look at Bulk Biceps, once he felt he done with his destiny, he was lost. Of course, it took a little suggestion to keep him going, but the fact still remains that it brought him anxiety. Then you have the two biggest examples: Starlight Glimmer and Sunburst (and of course, you have the Mane Six in Magical Mystery Cure, but that can be for later).

Now since we all understand Starlight's PoV on the subject, I won't go deep into it. Before her reformation, she felt that cutie marks were bad because they made some ponies better than others. Now, for being a villain that is kinda insane, she actually has evidence to back this viewpoint. Often in the show we see ponies with pathetic cutie marks that give them pathetic jobs and ponies with skulls or chains on their flanks which make them into criminals (Dr. Caballeron's henchponies for example)

Sunburst is a more recent example and one that fits Starlight's narrative. He is "an important wizard." The show makes it clear that he failed as a student in Celestia's school, thus his cutie mark that sent him there was useless. His academic career was shot down and only revived because the baby broke the Crystal Heart.

To sum this up with him, I'll let something I wrote about Starlight and Twilight talking in front of young Starlight show what's happened:

"Always like the Princess to be so closed minded," Starlight sighed. "I told you this is where it all started and I did not lie. I'm not a liar, Twilight. This is where I realized the troubles of our society."
"Heh, quite the revelation for a filly," Twilight mocked.
"Your point? Even at my young age, I sought answers. Sunburst and I were friends on mutual value of knowledge. We both sought knowledge and studied hard at our classes. I am sure you'd understand. After he saved my life, he earned his Cutie Mark. After I was almost crushed by very large textbooks, he saunters off like nothing happened. He did not even ask if I was OK. However, that's not the issue, the issue is this: we were both skilled at magic for our age and we both were great students."
"And?"
"Well, I'll ask you the question I asked myself when I watched him celebrate with his family. Tell me, Princess, what has changed?"
"Sunburst earned his Cutie Mark," Twilight answered.
"Other than that?"
"Uhh....nothing?"
"Precisely! Nothing has changed but a stupid symbol on his flank! That is why it all started here. In my youth, I realized something that most ponies probably do. I realized that all this celebration is not for some drastic change or achievement, but a simple mark. Sunburst is the same pony before the Mark and after. Did he gain some sudden magical knowledge? No. Did he acquire some gift of magic? No, he was just as skilled with magic before as after. Only until he earned the Mark did he earn other's attention. That's the problem. The Cutie Mark is a lie that all ponies have accepted to be some sign of destiny. I am here as the villain because I'm the only one who did not accept this. Sunburst was accepted to Celestia's school only after he gained a Cutie Mark. That filly over there rivaled his abilities, but as you see, she could not join because she was a blank flank. Have you heard of Sunburst? Did he ever become a prestige wizard with his gift? Of course not. I would not be surprised if my magic has surpassed his."

(I actually wrote this long before the S6 premiere)

So, here's the cons of the cutie mark. It takes away freedom. Ponies are somehow tied to their marks so much that they cannot function without them. Sugar Belle couldn't even bake right. It hinders them and is a constant area of worry and distraught. "Am I following my mark?" "Have I interpreted my mark correctly?" "Does my mark really even define me?" It's just as much a source of pride as it is a source of stress.

Starlight's viewpoints on the mark are also not completely wrong. The cutie marks DO seem to make some ponies automatically better than others. The marks will pit ponies into a destiny that is, let's face it, less interesting than another's. In this way, one that does get a mark will not be able to broaden his/her horizons because their mark is only in one area of expertise. Ponies with very broad marks (Twilight, Starlight) are much more likely to succeed than ponies with specific marks (most background ponies) simply because their marks cover more ground and allow them to do more things.

So what happens to ponies who get marks that do not help them with occupations? Are they just out of luck? What happen if a farmer pony with a farmer cutie mark isn't able to sell his crop? Is he outta luck? Are there ponies who just have to ignore their marks so that they can make money and survive? Does this hinder class mobility? Are some ponies just going to be rich and some poor solely based on their marks?

Now, you may be thinking "Gap, they said in the show the pony makes the mark, not the other way round." This is true. However, this still hinders social/wealth classes from being flexible. If you are a dirty peasant of a pony and you earn your cutie mark in being a peasant, what happens when you don't want to be a peasant anymore? Oh yeah, you can't really go against your mark. If you're a bad guy and get a brassknuckles mark, what happens when you don't want to fight anymore? Oh yeah, you love to fight as that's what your cutie mark says, so you'll keep fighting. Nothing changes and nothing can change. All you CAN do is try and interpret it differently, but if you can look at a symbol and say that it means whatever you want it to mean, then what's the point of it?

So the most important question is: is no cutie marks better? Starlight's village was a disaster but imagine if they were all blank flanks. Sapphire Shores has no mark and she is one of the biggest celebrities of Equestria. By having no marks, ponies will be forced to be a society based on effort and hard work rather than special talents. That way would let the ponies who earned it be in higher positions and the stress of knowing one's destiny from birth will be eliminated.

:rainbowwild: That or maybe Starlight is right and we all need social Marxism in the most extreme of sense.... :rainbowwild:

5457580 If you inserted cutie marks into any real, human society, the results would probably be horrific. But this is because we do not live in the same world that ponies do. We live in a world governed by chaotic forces of nature. Our behavior as humans was shaped by evolution in a kill-or-be killed environment, and that doesn't always lend itself to optimal happiness.

On the other hand, ponies live in a world where Friendship is literally the most powerful force in the universe. Destiny is real, and there's some nebulous but clearly benevolent thing called "harmony" that makes sure everything works out. In this context, cutie marks are just fine.

I'd like to point out that pretty much all problems ponies have with their cutie marks in the show are the result of misunderstandings. Starlight did not understand friendship, Troubleshoes did not understand the meaning of his mark, and the CMC kind of missed the entire point. Once these misunderstandings were corrected, everyone turned out fine.

This ties into the issue of freedom. I don't believe cutie marks deprive ponies of freedom -- the fact that ponies have destinies might do that, but a cutie mark is nothing more than a representation. Even if they did, though, I think freedom is somewhat overrated. It's great in our world, where people are mostly out for themselves, and you need to make decisions that are good for yourself, because no one else will (and even the people who do care about you are fallible).

But consider this: suppose you had a source of information that you somehow knew was both infallible and had your best interests at heart. Would you ever go against its advice? Well, to do so would be inherently self-defeating. You could only possibly end up harming yourself. Now suppose you were presented a choice: the price for having this adviser is that you will be compelled to abide by its advice. Is this a price worth paying? I certainly think it is. You're only being deprived of options you would never knowingly take anyway. It either doesn't affect you, or only affects you for the better.

This is essentially what a cutie mark is. A cutie mark represents whatever is best for a pony. Some ponies misunderstand their cutie marks, and end up suffering temporarily as a result. But as far as we've seen, everything always works out in the end.

5457749 I would also like to point out an example who's been with us since Day 1. This individual's cutie mark appears to have virtually nothing to do with the things that make her happy, yet she not only gets by, but thrives by doing what she does best. Some may say that her mark is, in fact, connected to her truest talent, but in honesty, only superficially, providing an accent but little more.

I'll give you a hint...
:raritystarry:

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Okay okes first let me say that I'm kak at typing so don't get gatvol with me if i take forever to respond.

Probably way to subconsciously triggered because of my countries history to give a logical answer and not waste space but at least if i do you smart okes will correct me right?

Ex unitate vires "From unity, strength". The Nats made this motto a big part of their ideology, I think it had something to do about every person being uniquely gifted and that they should all be very happy about being different but when unique groups mix it degrades the ability of individuals so lets not mix groups...because our groups unique gifts are better.

Cutie Marks show off your destiny, my father spoke once on how Afrikaner nationalists honestly believed that Boers, not Whites, not Blacks, not Coloureds sure as hell not the honorary whites(Asians) but Boers are made by god to rule. I actually have a National Party approved bible dad keeps for laughs and it 20% more toxic than i thought possible.

I think I'm trying to say i don't trust Cutie Marks and i cant find a reason why.

5460775 Going a bit off-topic, but I'd like to comment on the Latin proverb you mentioned.

Ex unitate vires: "from unity, strength". I agree with the view that each individual is uniquely gifted and should be proud of their talents. Where I disagree is in the mixing of groups with different talents. The more talents available, the more there is that can be done, and more effectively, thereby strengthening the group as a whole, not diminishing it.

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