Satanism. We Pagans often get lumped with these folks. Let's see if there's merit to the accusation.

From the Satanic Temple-
“The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.”

Alright, well that's just a bunch of feel good gobbedly-gook that doesn't tell you anything.

Let's go deeper.

"Thyself is thy master."

Uh-oh. Here's a problem. You see, most Pagans envision a Divine Hierarchy. Thyself is not thy Master. The individual must consider the needs of the community and be in harmony with the Divine Will. What does this mean anyway? What if "thy self" wishes to kill, rob, rape, etc.? This is the sort of hyper-individualism which could tear a community asunder. Since Paganism is a community focused faith, it would seem that Satanism and Paganism are irreconcilable.

7297477
My experience with what few Satanists I've known has always been that Satanism is a church that both rebels against and demands accountability of Christian Church's past actions and cultural standards through a modern lens.

7297563
They're a Christian sect in the same way Democrats and Republicans are both based on American political principles.

7297596
They are indeed another Christian sect. They recognize Christian figures and agree on the existence of the same Divine entities, being God and Satan, and have several other common agreements.

But don't tell that to a Christian unless you're prepared to be screamed at.

7297477
It's a lot simpler then that: Satanists worship evil. They literally worship the symbol of all evil! So case closed: Satanism is a perversion of religion, perhaps the ultimate perversion of religion.

7298028
I'm hesitant to agree with Satan being the symbol of all evil, on grounds that Satan is the antithesis of the Christian God. If the Christian God is the symbol of all good, then the Christian God is equal to Satan in terms of measure (Satan being the symbol of Christian God's exact opposite)
I personally refuse to accept that inherent 'goodness' is in any way equal to inherent 'evil'

But that's just me.

7298335
Neoplatonist? That is, you don't believe evil has an inherent existence, but is only a turning from the Good?

7298454
I do not believe that something can be inherently evil, and therefore something cannot be inherently good either.
You can have a good idea or good intentions but that doesn't mean that you can't possibly be an absolute bastard about how you go about what you're trying to do.
You can also just as easily be callous and selfish with your intentions and accidently do something benevolent on the way, or intentionally do it because doing so furthers your goals.

In my experience, people calling,something 'evil' is just a way of saying 'I strongly disagree with that' while claiming moral high ground; often just for the sake of gaining favor or popularity from their peers and/or simply because they don't have the time or interest of getting into why they disagree with the subject at hand.

7298335
Weather you (or I) think that Satan works as the symbol of all evil is beside the point. The point is: He's generally viewed as the symbol of all evil, and that's why Satanists worship him.

7298567
Most people I've come across who worship Satan just because 'he's evil' are, to be blunt; ignorant millenials who are trying to be 'edgy', and have done very little research into the subject.
I'll also agree that such people can be dangerous. Possibly just as dangerous as any other religious fundamentalist.

I'll also mention that if you ask around the Christian groups on this site if non-Christian faiths are Satanic: you'll get a lot of answers of 'yes', along with probably a few bible verses to support the claim.

I'm hesitant to take seriously what a non-Satanist has to say about Satanism for the same reason why I wouldn't recommend me being your first and last choice if you had a broken leg. Sure I have enough knowledge to get your leg in a proper(ish) splint, but I imagine that common sense dictates you would get to a hospital. How much internal bleeding o you have? Damned if I know. I'm not a doctor.
Just as a non-Satanist might have a general idea of how one sect operates but hasn't much knowledge about what they have to say about productive non-conformity or why they say it.

7298609

"I'll also mention that if you ask around the Christian groups on this site if non-Christian faiths are Satanic: you'll get a lot of answers of 'yes', along with probably a few bible verses to support the claim."

And that's an area where I don't see eye-to-eye with Christianity (at least small-o orthodox Christianity): They say that Christianity is the only true religion, that the God of Israel is the only true God. I suppose they would say that the Devil made other religions. But remember, that's what Christians said about other Christians until recently. They said that their denomination was the true Church, and that members of other denominations (especially Catholics) were going to Hell.

"I'm hesitant to take seriously what a non-Satanist has to say about Satanism..."

In this case. I think you've got is backwards: It's what the Satanists say that shouldn't be taken seriously!

Take the Satanic Temple mentioned in the OP: The claim that they don't worship Satan, that they don't think he even exists. I have a hard time buying that. It could be they're just being edgy, maybe that they don't really worship Satan. But I don't really care. They claim to be Satanists, so it's fair to treat them as Satanists.

But remember, that's what Christians said about other Christians until recently. They said that their denomination was the true Church, and that members of other denominations (especially Catholics) were going to Hell.

I don't have to look very far to find Christians who still believe that all other denominations are in 'grave danger' of going to hell. My personal experience is that Evangelists and Catholics are the most stalwart in this conviction.

In this case. I think you've got is backwards: It's what the Satanists say that shouldn't be taken seriously!

I'm not sure I follow. If Satanists shouldn't be trusted when it comes to asking questions about their beliefs, then by the same logic; Christians cannot be trusted by non-Christians who ask them about Christianity and I cannot be trusted when I'm asked about Wiccia by an non-Wiccian.
I would generally presume that someone claiming to be part of something would know more about the subject in question than someone who just briefly heard/read about it.
Again: if given the choice between me and an actual doctor looking at your broken leg; please pick the doctor first!

They claim to be Satanists, so it's fair to treat them as Satanists.

I absolutely agree. If someone wants to wear an identity; then they should expect to wear the baggage that goes with it.

7298671
People who are into vices and bad behavior will often make excuses. They'll try to downplay it or explain it away. It's human nature: I've done it, you've probably done it. And Satanists will do it too: They'll make excuses like "We don't really worship Satan". Those excuses are not to be taken seriously.

In other words: You're treating Satanism as just another religion. It is not. Satanists are not a reliable source on Satanism, for the same reason that druggies are not a reliable source on the health risks of recreational drug use.

7298718
I call it a religion because it fits the definition.

I'm not going to dismiss it on grounds that I disagree with it. I don't agree with Christianity, but I'm not going to call it a false religion.

I'm going to assume you've actually met and conversed with Satanists and that your contributions to this conversation thus far are a reflection of that.
I'm also going to assume that you were negativly impacted by your experiences and have the conviction that all Satanists are therefore evil.
Having said that: the majority of my experiences with Satanists were uncomfortable, but hardly the sort of events that left lasting impressions on me.

This clear lack of specific experiences on my part, I feel, is why I don't see it the way you see it.
I'm not saying your wrong or at fault, but I am saying that I'm not you and don't see things through your lens.

And if I'm wrong and you haven't actually been exposed to Satanists who in some way harmed you: then why are you so determined to argue with me? I'm honestly, begrudgingly, carrying on because I stand by the US Constution on Freedom of Religion, as long as the practice of such is not harming others.
I don't always like it but that's just how it is.

7298748
No, it's not personal experience. And I don't think all Satanists are evil. I just think that if you literally worship the God of Evil (or Angel of Evil in Christianity), there's something really messed up about that. And on that note: I'll point out that Christianity didn't invent the idea of an anti-God, of a God of Evil who opposes the good Gods. Who opposes the Gods that mankind is actuality supposed to worship.

Edit:

I'm honestly, begrudgingly, carrying on because I stand by the US Constution on Freedom of Religion, as long as the practice of such is not harming others.

I'm not calling for Satanism to be made illegal! Freedom of religion just means that the government can't ban your religion, it doesn't mean that I have to respect your religion.

7298814

I just think that if you literally worship the God of Evil (or Angel of Evil in Christianity), there's something really messed up about that.

My brief exposure to Satanists involved me getting a few arguments that the Christian God is the 'evil' one in that dynamic, and I have to admit that that ones I got revolving around Eden and the Great Flood had a point, even though I do not accept those events as factual. In all fairness: I probably would be a Satanist if I wasn't already Wiccian at the time of hearing them.
As far as I can tell: All religions are guilty of calling worship of the wrong religion evil, and saying that other religions are born of thier 'Devil' entity.
Both of us are wicked diviants in the eyes of others, and I would argue that this alone is all the motivation I need to not throw that label around at people I don't know.

it doesn't mean that I have to respect your religion

No, it does not. But peaceful coexistence begins with respect.

7298968
If you respect everything, then you respect nothing.

7299849
And that's your opinion.
If you've decided that I'm immoral and shallow, I'm not particularly motivated to win your approval.
I think its safe to say we're done here.

Blessed be

7299987
Um, I never said that you were immoral and shallow.

7299989
Retorting that by respecting everything I respect nothing: is retorting that my respect given is shallow.
Also, given your consistent insistence that all Satanism is evil, my position of saying otherwise puts me in the same room.

So yes: you are saying I am both shallow and immoral.

If I misread you, please explain why I am wrong.
I'll certainly concede that English is a needlessly complicated language and that misunderstandings happen.

7300011
I think you're taking this too personally.

7300014
I could suggest the same about you in this thread.

It is not my intent to portray myself as taking this personally but I am taking this topic seriously.

7297563
There is Satanism that worships Satan, Satanism that views Satan as a figure humanity should look up to, a rebel, etc

7298718
TBF, Satanism comes in a few flavors. Some don't worship Satan, but see him more as a figure to emulate, rebel against authority. But yeah, people who worship actual Satan.....yeah we need to talk