This thread is ONLY for discussing House Stormwing, and is not to be un-pinned from the top of the forum.

House Stormwing in my mind is a military state, with a bloated administration that's slowly rotting away at the seams. It's slowly losing the war, they all know it, and the state is overstretched and rather weak. And everyone but seemingly Rainbow Crash knows that it's a matter of time before the Griffins from the neighboring kingdom go '**** it' and invade.

But, is it all that bad if they do so? Yes; being occupied by them is not fun, but compared to the mass enslavement and genocide of M&S, they are practically saints.

Edit: and if Summit of the Unknown has any chance of being canonized; they are likely better options than the Alpacas and Goats, who sound like they want slices of Stormwing for themselves. .

2029970
That implies the Griffins actually have a plan of betrayal. If I were them, I'd think it was a stupid move.
I mean, really, provided they actually defeat House Stormwing, which you seem to be severely underestimating compared to other houses, such as Everfree (trapped in the past and likely going to get lapped by further advancing in technology houses, even the Rome-esque SW with their superior airpower), why would the Griffins focus all their attention on one House in particular when working alongside SW not only increases their military advantage in a foreign country like Equestria but also gives both factions a better chance at going at the other houses.

Look at it this way:

Griffins betray Stormwing

--> They lose and get their asses kicked outta Equestria

OR

--> They win, only conquer one house in the long run and find themselves against 5 other houses who will either a) dismiss them entirely or b) perceive them as a threat and fight them. Aside from being outnumbered and possibly outmatched, I'm sure I don't need to tell you fighting in an unfamiliar land is difficult, let alone one like Equestria. Look at Vietnam. Even for a hardy bunch like the Griffins (who at this point so far is only an expeditionary force in a foreign land) is difficult, and if a mass country like whatever the hell the Griffin land is called gets involved it's gonna be trouble if either the Houses join an alliance against it (which I doubt) or they go at it seperately, which might be a problem in itself.

Griffins stand by Stormwing
--> Stormwing conquers a house and by proxy so do the Griffins. Rinse, lather and repeat until all houses are conquered and Stormwing comes out King of the Hill in all of this, conquering the whole land of Equestria and vanquishing the houses with the more power they get upon each conquest. Stormwing will now be either too powerful for betrayal without substancial risk (which might be superficial since we don't actually know how powerful the Griffin kingdom is) or Stormwing might actually go and betray them. Then comes a war that could be anyone's game.

OR

--> Griffin works out a further alliance, getting on Equestria's good side (and I can tell you right now, Equestria under Stormwing (let alone Rainbow's) rule will be a volatile keg of powder just waiting for a betrayal or an upset in balance). Neither of them might be in any condition to have another war. A civil war is one thing, but a war between countries is another.

2030998

Looking at it like that maybe the betrayal wasn't exactly a planed thing. We know that the ambassador from the griffin kingdoms was Gilda who was an huge grudge against Rainbow. Seeing as the griffin kingdoms are pretty far away from Stormwing's base of opperations it is very possible that Gilda could have staged her own betrayal. Massacring the ponies of Stormwing in one fatal sweep of revenge. She would be killed in the struggle, the Twelve Champions of Pegasopolis awaken and Rainbow not knowing the the griffin kingdoms had actully nothing to do with this would order her forces to attack first ask questions later. Poor griffins have no idea what going on and think that Stormwing betrayed them, leading to a bloody war that nearly destroys both kingdoms.

2030998
But then why send a expeditionary force if they have nothing to gain? I sincerely doubt the Griffins sent a expeditionary force with Stormwing's best interests in mind. Think about it. You are also forgetting Yoricks future plans in a thread he started awhile back; in which he specifically mentioned that the Griffins were planning to betray Stormwing and not only that, everyone saw it coming. In short; I suspect the Griffin Invasion is inevitable and not only that, in the same thread it's mentioned that they almost conquer all of Stormwing.

Yes; and then in Stormwings most dire hour the Champion of Pegalopolis awaken. What's this? "The Griffins would lose because Stormwing would kick their asses." OK. Any further details to add, any evidence to support your claim that the Griffins are weaklings who fall like a fall leaf in Autumn?

Stormwing's internal problems:
While we know little about the internal politics in Stormwing, we can at least try to guess. First and foremost; Stormwing is a Military Junta. A junta or military junta is a government led by a committee of military leaders. Now; let's look even further, it's ran by a leader who thinks like a general, not a politician. Rainbow Dash doesn't care for logistics or administration, she clearly thinks that she'll be able to win by simply squashing everything like a bug.

Her very personality gives you a picture of what kind of problems Stormwing has, not only that but the mere fact that Rainbow Dash actually paid enough attention to 'Rebels' that she actually has a strong opinion of them suggests that the nation has suffered through some kind of revolt. This; and being forced to hire the Nhorse as Mercenaries and accepting the Griffins help to begin with, suggests that they are overstretched.

All this suggests that Stormwing; while certainly possessing a strong military, is a bloated economic mess only held by military force, with tons of logistical and administrative problems, with evidence of a relatively recent revolt happening earlier on. Yeah. Not exactly in the best position to fight off another invasion from another front isn't it?

The Griffins themselves:
Let us begin by mentioning the fact that the Griffins have the head of a Eagle and the body of a Lion. Two predatory animals that rank very high on the food chain; in fact, the Lion was considered the King of the Jungle for a long time by both Native African's and European writers. The Griffins would get 'their asses kicked' like you propose for that very reason. The Griffins are stronger than the Ponies, and then there's the fact that they and the Keythongs are both heavy units in Stormwings Military.

Now imagine a army of those; but this time with Griffin and Keythong ranged and light units. While the Stormwingers might possess superior speed, they'd ultimately be no match for the utter brute force of the Chimeras, and lacking full strength as they are both fighting at two fronts and it is a surprise attack, would get inevitably pushed back as the Griffins advance into Stormwings territory.

They certainly wouldn't fall apart like fall leaves in autumn, or get 'wtfpwned' like many of you angrily scowled on this forum beforehand.

Why standing with Stormwing is utterly impractical and nonsensical:
As detailed above; Stormwing is a bloated mess comparable to a rotting apple, their leaders are allowing economic and administrative problems to fester out of inexperience, and the Griffins have a predatory sense that the Ponies themselves simply lack. It's clear that it's only a matter of time before Soarin or Spitfire launches a coup and deposes Rainbow Dash for power, which also brings upon a potential Civil War breaking out, further weakening Stormwing. Stormwing isn't going to win the war, everyone knows it will fall apart long before then and that it's a matter of time before Rainbow completely loses it and turns into a the kind of Warlord you'd only see in Sub-Saharan Africa.

And not only that; but the Griffins clearly want to take Stormwing and Stormwing alone. They simply don't care about the other houses; they simply lack the Man(Eagle?)power to overwhelm all of Equestria and are focusing upon one specific region they want. Now another thing most of you haven't taken into consideration: why would the Griffins even want a unified Equestria? Perhaps it's looking at the cynical political view where all countries should be looking out for their own country and that war's night inevitable; but the disappearance of Celestia and Luna undoubtedly left a void.

And what is this void? The Ponies aren't the dominant race anymore, without Celestia and Luna, the ponies are no long the head honchos we know them from canon. There is a void now open that even the dumbest Griffin aristocrat would notice and would pounce upon that opening like Cat's upon a cornered rat. The Griffins now have a chance to take the Ponies place as the rulers of the world, and they know it. Taking Stormwing would provide plenty of valuable resources as well a few flying cities to use as they please, and would also be a message to the Ponies that they are no longer the Kings of the Earth and that they are no better than anyone else.

Not only that; but a unified Equestria is not in the interests of the Griffins. They want to keep that void open as long as they can so that they may ascend to prominence and expand their political borders. And not only that; but a unified Equestria simply doesn't benefit them in any shape or form. Ultimately; the fact that Equestria is divided is ultimately a boon to their political interests as, mentioned before, expand both their borders but also their influence.

Also ask yourself; would any self respecting Griffin Lord actually expect Rainbow Crash to win? Especially since her nation is noticeably falling apart? The answer, mares and and gentlestallions, is a resounding: No.

Conclusion:
Let's break it down:
Stormwing: a bloated mess with many administrative, logistical, and economic problems. A relatively recent major revolt may have happened sometime in the past. They are clearly overstretched partly thanks to said administrative problems; as evidenced by their over reliance on the Expeditionary Force, the Keythongs, and the Nhorse. In the case of a potential invasion, they'd have to redeploy units around the southern borders and potentially get invaded by the Wildlings and Unicorns at the same time.

The Griffins: a race in a strong position to become the dominant race/culture/civilization/whatever in the world. Very militaristic and natural predators, the latter something that the Ponies simply lack. They have plenty of reasons to invade Stormwing, and simply don't care about the fate of greater Equestria. And have plenty of reasons to work against that goal.

And Equestria itself: a war torn nightmare with the other races already planning to divide it up between themselves. No effective way to stop Griffin or Changeling attempts to expand their borders and influence.

In short; the Griffins could clearly invade Stormwing and be victorious, as even if the Ponies are stronger there are ultimately too many logistical and administrative problems to man a effective defense made even worse so when they weaken their southern borders and losing even more territory to opportunistic Wildlings and Unicorns.

And they simply don't care about Equestria being unified. It's ultimately a detriment and a hurdle to their own race after all, and I suspect both they and the Changelings are simply filling the void that the Ponies left: as the rulers of the world.

Edit: and I wouldn't call Stormwing 'unfamiliar land.' Look at the map: mountains to the north and plains to the south. Now look at the Griffin side of the border: mountains to the north and plains to the south. The Vietnam comparison doesn't work here. The Griffins are fighting in terrain they both understand and know, now if they were fighting in the Everfree or the thick forests of M&S, then maybe you'd have a point.

2032372
That's a Griffin groupie talking, but all of that makes sense to me.
If history has ever showed us anything is that military goverments never works in the long run.
(And God helps those who live under one FORCED to continue, Burma, anyone?)

Also, the fact that (I hope I recall correctly) Earthborn's Pegasi Auxiliary corps ALONE outnumbers Stormwing, tells us that not even for the sake of race Stormwing has enough support from their kin.
Their ground forces must be too small as well, I'm afraid.

But...there still has to be a "Stormwing is being underestimated" argument around here. Somebody?

2032372

Fighting a war isn't like hunting, when lions hunt they're chasing prey that barely fights back, as in a hoof to the face while running away in terror. And the predators stop once they've separated out one or two that the rest of the herd abandoned so the rest could flee, doing that to a force of trained and armed sophonts is a good way to get yourself outflanked.

Also as far as we know all the Griffins have aside from their own beaks and talons is spears and armor. Pegasi have spears, armor, and magic. Did you forget that pegasi can throw lightning bolts and form tornadoes?

And does anyone know where Stormwing got their Rocs?

2032727
Stormwing is being underestimated argument? I can give it a try.

So a few things that House Stormwing's got going for it.

1. Despite possessing one of the smallest militaries in the world, the mainstay of the Stormwing military consists of soldiers who have been trained to fight and uphold Stormwing ideals since they were children. I would say that outside of its Griffin, Nhorse, and Earth Pony auxiliaries, Stormwing easily possesses the most disciplined and well-trained military in the world. I would say this is a pretty huge asset. For example, recall that 2032727 is correct in saying that the Earthborn Auxilairy Corps is larger than the entire Stormwing military. While that is true, the only troops in the Earthborn Auxiliary Corps that can match average Stormwing Hoplite are the Lightning's Finest, a military unit so small and elite that it consists of those personally trained by what we might consider to be one of the fastest and fiercest pegasi in the whole setting.

2. All but one of Stormwing's cities are effectively mobile flying fortresses. Actually conquering and occupying Stormwing is going to prove exceedingly difficult for any House or Race that isn't predominantly a race that can fly, such as the Griffins who we've been discussing a bit. To defeat House Stormwing might require a very long and complicated period of siege warfare that no house might be capable of pulling off very well, or an extremely violent genocide that will also require a huge amount of manpower and heavy weaponry. For its small size, Stormwing does appear to be very hard to attack directly.

3. I argue that the Stormwing people as a whole are heavily invested in and loyal to their house. Keeping in mind my previous two points, can you seriously imagine a large rebellion or revolution occuring in House Stormwing? Nearly all of the male population are life-long soldiers who would consider it a life well-spent to have died in battle for their house in some pointless conflict. I can imagine that the average Pegasi family is not going to go against their house while some of its members are currently in the frontlines. Also, for all the talk of House Stormwing being nothing more than some fascist military machine, keep in mind that the House is guided by more than just some generals' desire to conquer Equestria. A major part of the philosophy behind the house is that it it built upon Pegasi ideals and a firm loyalty in the Royal Princesses. To say that Stormwing is nothing more than one big army is to ignore the fact that the house actually posesses a well-developed culture that unites its people just as much as any other house.

Those are a few I can think of off the bat. Although I'm a batshit insane Cultist through and through, I'm honestly a bit disappointed to see everyone discredit the Pegasi so much.
Come on guys, wars aren't won by numbers and technology, THEY'RE WON BY SOLDIERS!

2036848

Agreed can't forget the rocks. i have a feeling they keep all of those at the cloud cities making seiging them super difficult. Also remember the Stormwing hat the ability to move their fucking cities. Griffin army approaching. Just send some troops to engage them while you move your city off to the ocean or some shit. Not to mention they have the power of the storms with them. Who needs soldiers when you can whip up a cyclone to "blown away" your enemies.

(and thats my contribution to why you shouldn't underestimate Stormwing )

2032727
Can you dig up where it was mentioned that all of Stormwing was outnumbered by the Pegasi forces of Earthborn alone? PoorYorrick states that their Pegasi arm was comparatively smaller, and mainly used for scouting and skirmishing.

2067511
Found it!

Sigh...I hope I don't look as an obsessive bastard, but meh...I WAS asked to dig up, right?

2074760
No, this is the most direct source I've ever been given when I asked someone to back up a claim. I guess I'm just disappointed by that fact.

2082757
Really? How so?

2074760 I'm oddly proud to be the guy PY's responding to in that screenshot. It feels like I contributed something without having to actually do anything.

So... What are the chances of a Ponified Alexander or Octavius emerging in Stormwing?

Also, what's the Griffins theme? I mean, I looked at the Prowler pic; and I'd like to know which historical culture they bear similarities with.

The Stormwing State does appear to be rather heavily based on the Spartan State.

The Spartans', themselves, main economic activity was literally attacking and dominating other city-states firstly. The Spartan state though had two other means of economic production its Helot slave class to for farming and its Non-Citizen Perioikoi class to run everything that wasn't farming or making war (Builders, Merchants, etc). Given that the Pegasi cities are literally clouds it is very doubtful they are able to feed their population (which given their constant state of activity must take up a lot of calories) from their cloud cities (Unless, you know, they have developed... Cloud Seeding). Therego the Stormwing state is VERY much dependent on integrating, but possibly semi-segregating, Earth Ponies and Unicorns into their society as the whole framework of their economy would be in the hands of the Earth Ponies and Unicorns while the defense and structure of the state is entirely dependent on the Pegasi tribe.

The Stormwing House likely has a Caste system to maintain this, with Pegasi as the warriors, Earth Ponies as Farmers, and Unicorns as Businessmen and Specialized Workers. A system which seems to have been slightly the base of Pre-War Equestria, but now their roles are even more important and probably un-crossoverable. Any Pegasi born to Earth Pony or Unicorn parents will likely be immediately taken away to be trained.

So, does this make the Stormwing weaker or stronger? It is of course debatable. They are definitely not wasting manpower in terms of social organization and as stated are the most disciplined fighting force in Equestria. On the otherhoof it is developing a highly regimentalized class society. It could lead to the Pegasi getting a superiority complex and if the Earth Ponies or Unicorns revolt it could lead to totally hindering their ability to survive as a fighting force. Then again, they probably have a sense of social equality marked by practicality, unlike Whitegold is marked by How Rich You Are.

2402685
Probably weaken them. I seem to recall that house Stormwing has the same problem Sparta did, numbers. House Earthborn I believe has more pegasi than Stormwing.

Now Stormwing's main advantages are elite troops and mobility. But the earth pony and unicorn settlements wouldn't be as portable as the cloud cities, I'd expect them to constantly be getting conquered by the other houses and Stormwing needing to reclaim them and/or fight off rebellions all the time. That would wear them down over time don't you think?

2404226

It certainly allowed Sparta to kick everyone's ass, not to the extent that 300 always portrays but certainly they were still a fairly formidable fighting force up unto the Roman Wars of Expansion. Though unlike the Spartans it seems like the Pegasi are not making use of slavery as the Moon and Star House is so probably better Tribal relations there. The Pegasi are also not One Trick Ponies, there control over the weather is a advantage in war and daily life.

I think it was mentioned in Canon Series that it is Cloudsdale that provided a nexus of organized weather for Equestria (Hurricane Fluttershy) so the weather is likely most stable and crops more fertile under Stormwing Clouds, I can imagine some chaotic times after more 'natural' weather patterns start to take hold across Equestria.

Though, I know we have had some mention of Mobile Farms? Dirt on wheels I imagine. The Ground Guard Wings do seem to be channeling Polish Hussar Sarmatianism.

2120903

Rainbow Dash certainly fits the Alexander bill.

As for the Griffons theme from the series I've always imagined a Frankish Kingdom.

Though one thing we do not know about the Griffons are there own numbers. Is it as large as Equestria's or smaller or bigger? Further how big is the Griffon Expeditionary Force?

2404524
And Sparta was conquered by the Achaean League forty-two years before Rome crushed them. And actually right before the Achaean war Rome was trying to convince the league to give the Spartans back their independence, though afterwards they were relegated to a tourist attraction for Roman senators who wanted to see them toss babies off cliffs.

2405100

900ish BC-192BC is still a pretty good run for them.

Long term wise I always see Stormwing and Earthborn eventually allying with each other, especially even if it is only for a short while to put down the Moon and Star House. I also see a deal with Whitegold forming considering the two have no territorial disputes with each other.

On terms of Tribalism, the Earthborn are only slightly behind Moon and Star for ideologically favoring their Tribe over others. Stormwing while based in Pegasi Duty to Defend Equestria on the long run is less likely to explode over Tribal favoritism. WithoutLightning Dust as a rallying point leader type the Earthborn Pegasi may ventually desert back to Stormwing en masse.

2405100

Further the Earthborn have the opposite problem of the Stormwing. Their army is the largest but they face so many threats at once (they are the only faction sharing a border with every other faction plus the Changelings) that they are never able to use their full military might. If they did they could probably crush everyone but it is a constant game of juggling enemies.

The Stormwing are the most mobile of Factions and so they are in ways best able to deal with the Earthborn or Moon and Star by picking and choosing when and where to fight them, whittling down their foes by useing their superior and mobile army.

Further geographic wise the Northern Expansion seems to be rather steppe based, so Stormwing must be able to feed themselves well enough on their own. For an invading Earthborn Army they would have hell of logistics to feed their large forces while also fueling their weapons of war. Only Moon and Star is able to really overcome this with their use of Teleportation.

The problem that I see is everyone seems to be expecting them to fight like greek hoplites due to their greek theme.

This is stupid.

For one thing they'd be a huge target for the shooting units of other houses, and for another it gives up a pegasus ponies biggest advantage which is maneuverability. Pegasi are going to fight like flying cavalry, they hit from flanks, launch raids, and surprise attacks. If they take you front on front its probably going to be with heavy units so that your troops scatter and can be picked off by the rest of the army.

Defensively the Pegasi don't have to actually defend every town and village in their territory. As Sun Tzu said, he who defends everything defends nothing. Due to their limited numbers they likely use the gound guard to slow the enemy down before the Pegasi, who are kept in the flying cities which are pretty well spread out across stormwing territory, can quickly sally forth to rescue and wipe the enemy out in a massive counter attack.

They would fight like flying Mongols. A swarm of feather and spear striking from every corner and direction the enemy is picked apart.

The problem that I see is everyone seems to be expecting them to fight like greek hoplites due to their greek theme.

This is stupid.

They do not fight as hoplites! Descriptions said that the battle between hoplites and Lightning's Finest the most beautiful thing on the battlefield! Greek hoplite type of fight are boring.

2404524 Spartans got their asses kick by Athenian rowers and Theban Sacred Band. The Rowers are normal guys throwing stuff while the Sacred Band are Gay people! BGGP! (Badass Greek Gay People!)

In terms of Economy, their main source of income; I don't think it would either be trade or tax. Whitegold dominated the former, and the only candidate for the latter is Earthborn. Stormwing is a hegemony [I guess] , doesn't this mean their main profit comes from tributes and supplies from their protectorates? Trottingham [correct me if I'm wrong] is a good example of such protectorate.

Mobile Farms; King of Malta mentioned 'Dirt on Wheels', which I agree with. But maybe Carrot Top might have actually invented something more innovative. Just 'Dirt on Wheels' seems very archaic for Stormwing's Elite reputation.

3716360 I know little about Stormwing at the moment, only the base information. But if i can put 2 and 2 together correctly here, they're a very Honorable, fearless warrior race who are loyal to Celestia and Luna, but believe they have to defend Equestria and set themselves as the might of Equestria until they return, in which case they will let them rule again, while they think that Moon and Star are trying to take control themselves and themselves as rulers. They are against cowardice and face danger head on (tough they are not dumb and will use powerful and effective military strategies to destroy powerful foes, such as surprise attacks from above) with great power. They are very strict and follow a strict code which if broken, requires them to get their wings cut off and become a Fallen. The worst consequence any Stormwing member could ever face.

Now if all this is correct, then tributes seems right up their alley, so that even the ones that cannot fight must help those who can by giving tribute to the faction to help it survive. Tough i still think trading would be a thing, its not as big as Whitegold for sure, and wouldn't sustain them forever. So making their protectorate give them tribute to defend them against things like rebellions, the cult and other factions seems a very convenient way to sustain themselves, and in return, they do defend, considering they are honorable, they would honor this deal in a:
"We, the ones that fight for you, in return, ask for you to help us keep our strengths by offering tributes to sustain our forces". kind of way.
And lets not forget that the only other faction that can compare to Stromwings military force is Earthborn. And so i would be willing to give tribute to them if such a powerful army could keep my families and friends safe.

I cant comment on this Dirt on Wheels thing since i don't know where it comes from, mind telling me if you remember?

3733836
They are elite, disciplined, fearless warriors in Equestria. They are equipped with the best arsenals. None would be weak in their ranks. Their only weakness would be numbers, which should be in total, the smallest. But that's counting the cannon fodders of other factions as well.

I see Stormwing as 'better than what you can expect from the others' kind of Military. They have support from their protectorates, and as such need not to invest in their economy much and shift all that to military.

In the "Canon Characters from FiM", Carrot Top [aka Golden Harvest] was credited as the creator of the 'Mobile Farms', which would spark an image of 'Dirt on Wheels' as soon as anyone hears it.

Ok so i was about to go on and on about why Stormwing would have named it that when i realised you where talking about a name given to it by some members of the forum So i scratched all that and decided to simply say this: Odds are its much more then just "Dirt on Wheels" , its probably a magically enhanced artifact or building of some kind which allows them to spread or move their farms from place to place to follow their cities. And not simply "Dirt on Wheels".
However Dirt on Wheels could be a derogatory term used by other factions to insult their creations.

3735954
But Carrot Top's an Earth Pony, how could she have created it if she had no magic to use? Maybe she designed the concept, yet how could she possess the knowledge of magical technologies to design such invention? I see a "Mobile Farm" as well "Dirt on Wheels" as mentioned, but with Earthborn elements to it. Maybe Carrot Top left Earthborn and joined Stormwing! Maybe she designed it when she was an engineer in Fillydelphia or whatever, and Stormwing saw the potential of it and took her in. Giving her the position as an overseer of the Stormwing's Food Production and Distribution! What are your thoughts? Do you think this background would work?

3737236 First of all, if im not mistaken, Carrot Top is like, the only Earth Pony to have this strange ability to make things like plants and food grow very easily around her. That could be just fanfictions i read but i really like the idea of it, that would also explain why she would have had to leave Earthborn if she was part of it. I like to think she has this kind of ability.

However, going to your idea, its actually quite interesting, If she was originally Earthborn, she would have probably tough up the idea, but was not allowed to realize it due to one of two reasons.
1. It was magic, and of course, she would never be able to make it and so maybe she left for Stormwing to realize it, or maybe she got found out for making the schematics of a magical invention and such, was banished out of Earthborn. Stormwing may have found out and knowing their food issues, invited her to join Stormwing. With her only options being Whitegold slums, the cult or a rebel force, she decided that Stormwing was the best place to go.
Or 2. Earthborn didn't find it of any use and rejected her idea, im not sure exactly what events would then lead her to joining Stormwing, but its another possible route. Care to elaborate on this version?

As for would it work? Definitely, considering Earthborn doesn't really have food issues, for Carrot Top too have done something like this and would have to have changed factions for it to work. Remember that Carrot Top is her nickname and fan name, but her official name is apparently "Golden Harvest", hence why she is focused on growing food and such.

3739719
I read it some where that Earth Ponies also have magic like the other pony types. Unicorns had their horns for spell based magics. Pegasi had their wings for aerial magics, seriously those wings wouldn't propel an actual pony. And Earth Ponies had a magic of being able to grow crops, thus would explain why only the Earth Pony tribe bothered to grow food in the ancient times. Those made sense to me.

I think she would probably suffered a fate equivalent to death if she was busted. Banishment is unilikely considering Earthborn's Anti-Magic agenda. She probably secretly informed the Stormwing and somehow gained a diplomatic immunity in her early days. This event should happen prior to Stormwing flooding Ponyville, I wouldn't want to piss anyone off without a secured food supply. So maybe she was with the Orange Clan's Colterado during that time?

If she's smart enough to design such a contraption, she would also be smart enough to know that Earthborn had no need for the concept because their food production isn't scarce, they had no problems with it. She would probably try to contact Stormwing right away, which might be buying foods from Earthborn at that time. She might even be hated by the Earthborns for ruining their trade by making Stormwing self-sufficient on their food supply, thus joined Stormwing.

Honestly, I'd prefer the name Golden Harvest belonging to a pony with a cutie mark of a wheat or barley, not carrot. They're not even golden, even if it's close enough though...

3740452 I didn't think of the Pegasus wings as being magical....now that you mention it it seems ridiculous for them not being magical, its also reinforced by the fact that they are the only ponies to be able to touch and interact with the weather itself efficiently.

Now everything you said makes sense, the whole plan, how she joined them, when it happened. But there's one problem here. WHY would she betray Earthborn? She could have easily scrapped the idea the moment it involved magic, and never speak of it again. Why betray her friends, family and everything she knows just to make an invention come true? There must be something within either Earthborn that pushed her away or Stormwing that pulled her in. I just don't see what. The only thing that could maybe happen is that she is known in the fandom as always caring for her friends and never thinking of herself. Everypony was important to her, and so, maybe since Earthborn hated magic and was very abusive towards unicorns, she hated the idea of being with them, unable to take the horrors she witnessed towards the unicorns. Maybe she thought she could find something better somewhere else, and the invention just came at a good time to help her move somewhere else. Stormwing as far as i know, is strict, but not abusive unless you show cowardice or disloyalty. In which case the punishment is not death, its more just becoming a fallen which is worst for them sure but also less brutal then Earthborn. Sure they reign with a tight grip but they don't resort to such extreme methods like Earthborn do when it comes to magic. And the opportunity just presented itself and she took it. She may have also thought that Derpy was there originally, being a Pegasus and all, imagine how crushed she was when she found out one of her closest friend (at least in the fandom, Carrot Top is considered close friends with Derpy) is actually a prophet for the Cult of Laughter. But by then it was too late to go back.

3744686
Now there's something interesting I recently realized, Carrot Top's a member of the Apple Family! She's spotted in that one episode, "Apple Family Reunion". She might have been a member of the Engineers Guild. Relishing her invention, yet knowing the guild wouldn't except it for the fact that it used magic, she turned to Stormwing who might've offered her a bargain. Or maybe she was transferred from Earthborn after they made peace with Stormwing after they flooded Ponyville, but that's unlikely right?

Maybe she chose her invention over her friends and families? Equestria had changed, moral rules are a lot less with division going on.

3746698 I still find it a little strange, i think there has got to be something deeper for her to have left then simply wanting to see her inventions come to life. Il see if i can think something up but yea if she had changed from being super loving caring friend to a more serious engineer kind of person then she could have left for her invention, considering ED basically twisted, smashed, stretched and turned all the characters into completely new versions of themselves i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

As for Stormwings troops, I've noticed that, hoplites are really the only fast maneuverable fighter in the whole force pages, other flying units are either ranged, heavy slow power units or special unique units. I'm wondering if hoplites are really their only common infantry unit in the air, considering they aren't really known for going into large scale sieges and are more "Go in, kill everything, get out" kind of style maybe they don't really need a large and varied melee aerial units but, I still think they would have more then just hoplite for fast aerial units considering their reputation of having the strongest aerial army. Its clear they don"t even have a lot of hoplites either. In the end I'm just wondering would hoplites maybe be more a general term used to group up a larger variety of aerial soldiers? Not a ridiculously large difference but it just seems, weird that they have very little quick fast fighters considering their style of quick aerial attacks to finish off their enemies before they even knew what hit them. I know Stormwing doesn't have the largest amount of soldiers but it just seems weird there's only 1 really common aerial fighter unit. It seems like the only general common kind of unit are the ground guards, which aren't as far as i know, the main bulk of the army. Mostly used for defense.

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Considering Pegasi wings are already quite fast, they are basically light troops even when armored with no-so-light armor [bloody cuirass!] . The faster variant of the Hoplites, the lighter infantry would be the Wind Riders, the not-for-melee variant would be the Stormbringers.

If Hoplites are their infantry, then the Wind Riders are their cavalry, considering their roles of reconnaissance and pincer. Stormbringers are more like specialized engineers, not military engineers. Now another unit that could be weak-in-melee are the Thunderers. If we treat them as archers, they would be weak considering. But they are new weapons, which means they could've been a hoplite before gaining their new rank. So they could use their thundering device like a mace in melee, unless those are fragile, or maybe they carried a side arm, maybe all Stormwing personnel do considering them being very elite that is.

Ground guards would also be providing ground support in my opinion. I don't see the development of anti aerial weapons to be uncommon considering the pegasi being the bulk of Equestria's military in the past, and the griffon neighbors to the north as well. But since Stormwing focused on aerial warfare, these soldiers are militias at best. They would have to mostly rely on the Nhorse for ground support.

I don't think Stormwing tactics would only be hit-and-run, doesn't seems to be the most hounorable acts of warfare, unless they finish their foes or complete their tasks then they head back. Stormwing might have a variety of doctrines for all situations, albeit all of which starting to be outdated. All of their tactics and formations would have one thing in mind, aerial superiority. I mean gaining air spaces as much as possible whilst maintaining celerity/swiftness.

And siege, Stormwing could easily won any siege by just hovering their floating city on top of the settlement, no matter how high the wall is, the settlement would fall. But there are various factors that must've been holding the Stormwing to do that, maybe they did that to Trottingham though. Moving an entire city made of clouds, no matter how it was constructed, would require an insane amount of wind. Maybe more than a hundred fold that was done in Hurricane Fluttershy. Do you think the floating cities have their own garrisons for that?

3754474 Considering their numbers (i looked at the forces threads) i realized that odds are, each unit is specialized in something and they can't afford to have 10 different kinds of fast infantry units.

Thunderers might keep something like a mace connected to the storm cloud to create an electrical melee weapon? maybe they simply remove the cloud and fight with a mace or a knife of somekind.

From what i read, the ground guards are actually forced to fight for them. Albeit they seem better armed and trained then M&S slaves. In the end for battles id say the Nhorse probably fit a more offensive style while the guards fit a more defensive style. Maybe the Nhorse focus more on taking out anti air units while aerial units take out ground units.

When i say hit-and-run i kinda didn't mean it that way. I meant more like you said, go in, destroy the threat and leave. Be fast and efficient and leave no survivors. Destroy all enemies so that they pose no more threat. So yea not so Hit-and-run more like -Hit-Kill-leave. For their tactics and such. Their main one is to do like i said, Hit-Kill-Leave, their perfect scenario is to wipe out all enemies before they can react, which is fitting considering that they have low numbers and need to avoid long battle that can lead to a large death toll. Their aerial superiority would always give them this advantage since its hard to counter an aerial assault, especially one as fast and fierce as Stormwings. But another thing to note is that they don't attack unless they find a weak point in the enemies army. Meaning that all of their attacks start with an advantage to begin with.

As for bringing the city on top of the enemy settlement. There's one very big flaw in this. They only have these 3 main cities. Bringing them to the enemy does not seem like the wises nor the safest choice. Imagine a well placed Behemoth cannon shot or a large scale Avalanche rocket launcher attack? how much destruction it would cause on their cities? Heck if they bring in an anti-air variant of the Busters (Fortbuster, Beastbuster, Aerialbuster?) they could wreak destruction upon the city. And that's just Earthborn troops.

Stormwings power comes from their high mobility not only for their units but literally everything they own. This helps protect and maintain their small numbers without suffering losses, Sieges could be won however at a high risk that Stormwing could not afford to take, simply because if it goes wrong there goes one of their cities and odds are around 1/3 of their numbers right there. They mostly rely on coming out of nowhere and quickly ending any fight they start. Its extremely EXTREMELY difficult to Siege something, anything, that is at least decently defended quickly enough to prevent heavy causalities. When they try to move one of their cities it probably takes a lot of manpower, something they cant afford to do when trying to siege something. Its mostly to keep moving to prevent enemies from setting up and taking them out. It also allows them to deploy troops from better positions for battles and during a long lasting battle they could move a city nearby to make it easier to fight. However moving a city into a vulnerable position would just be asking to loose the war unless everything goes 100% smoothly, which i doubt is what would happen.

ALSO (i just don't stop do i? ) Stormwing doesn't seem to want to rule Equestria. They just want to make themselves the powerful race that protects Equestria during the absence of the princesses. Removing any large threat and prevent armies from growing too strong. Especially preventing rebel groups from growing and trying to just stop anything that could possibly start controlling Equestria. And so attack a larger settlement doesn't seem like something they would do unless absolutely necessary and that there are no other options.

3763603
How would a non-unicorn carry a mace? Poor pony's jaws gonna come right off!
Maybe a knife or a thick horseshoe would do.

OK, so the ground guards are basically conscripts. Stormwing probably used them as a police force on the ground. As we all know, conscripts are utterly useless against professional soldiers. By the time Stormwing gave them ballistas, they might've developed into trained defensive, ground support worthy forces fit for the elitism of Stormwing. By the way, Nhorse throwing axes to pegasi and seraphs, pretty cool right?

In the air, there are no covers. Combatants are fully exposed unless there are clouds, but not the case for air-to-ground attacks [Not taking Mist into account] . The advantage of this is that pegasi are swift. They have a lot of space to maneuver, making pincer an easy task. The disadvantage is that the fact that there are no covers, anti-aerial assaults are as deadly as aerial assaults. Anti-Air weapons would either be precision projectile or scattering them all in the sky, hoping to hit one or two up there.

Now that you've reminded me of the importance of the flying city, here's my idea. Do you think the Stormwing have outposts or small forts made of clouds scattered throughout their territory? Maybe in sieges, Stormwing could camp their force high in the sky, as well as their supply line too. They could make Trottingham their logistics center, delivering supplies up to the sky camps above. Maybe that dude Derpy and Raindrops worked with could be the head of Stormwing's logistics? You know, that time when they dropped the piano on Twilight?

They could use their aerial superiority/agility to raid the settlement's surroundings and its storehouse to quickly starve them out? It's still a slow process and not very fitting for Stormwing's reputation. As Sun Tzu stated, sieges are very wasteful for both sides.

Before Twilight tricked Dash to flood Ponyville, maybe relations between Stormwing and M&S were quite good. I mean they're both celestial loyalists in a way. While relations between Stormwing and Earthborn were really bad, the latter being separatist. Maybe the public order in their territories are very high compared to the rest of Equestria.

3764615 yea poor ponies, maybe a small staff or something with a pokey end or SOMETHING XD

Tough i wouldn't say worthy of the elitism, i wouldn't doubt that they are very well trained, i mean Stormwing MUST see how important they are to them. Of course I can see something like Nhorse throwing axes to Hoplites, them catching it and raining axes upon their enemies. I dunno seemed cool in my head when i thought about it (Nhorse's are just cool in general)

As for the no covers, its true Anti-Air could be devastating, hence why Stormwing waits for an opening. Probably after a battle or something, and quickly takes them out before they can set up said Anti-air weapons. If not tough then its very costly for Stormwing due to their low numbers. that's why i said its hard to counter one, especially if you don't see it coming. Since its upon you very quickly and setting up anti-air weapons still takes enough time and then to organize them to be of much effect requires MORE time, giving Stormwing that window of opportunity to destroy their foes before they get taken out. Its seems Stormwing focuses a lot on an "All or Nothing" style, which makes sense considering their beliefs and position, if they don't do it they might loose too much overtime. So they have to go all in every time they attack. Maybe that's why they hate cowards so much, because it could ruin this whole strategy and make them loose more then they would have if they just went all in.

As for smaller cloud outpost, that's actually quite interesting. However there's one key problem here. Stormwing is just NOT willing to go into a siege, unless its absolutely NECESSARY and there is absolutely no other choice. simply because no matter how much they take, even if its a whole new city, its not worth the numbers you lost. If you ever played chess, you would understand how loosing 3 or 4 special pieces like horses and bishops, towers is not worth it for taking out your opponents queen. Stormwing may have taken a city (queen) but in the long run they lost towers and horses and bishops (a lot of units.) that they are left with only maybe 1 special piece, a king (cities) a queen (Dash) and a lot of pawns (ground units) while their enemy has all of their units still except for that one city. Basically if you gave the units points it would be like Stormwing would have lost around 17 points while their enemy would have lost around 9. if you don't play chess, basically, Stormwing just lost a lot of important units to take 1 city, where that 1 city was not worth the large amount of units lost. And i don't think Stormwing could afford to Starve them out, all factions in one way can retaliate against them, and once again, a cloud in the sky is a very big and open target to shoot at. And eventually, the enemy would set up anti-air weaponry to prevent anymore raids, eventually costing Stormwing too many casualties per raid to make it worth it. If only their numbers were larger they could become the most powerful faction and even the biggest threat to all factions.

And FINALLY the relation between SW and M&S might have been better, but never good. SW and M&S are both celestial loyalists however their ways of doing things were very different. SW believe that the princesses will come back and that they must defend Equestria from the other factions until they come back, preventing anyone from becoming a new ruler. While M&S want to do exactly that, rule Equestria in the name of the princesses until they come back. Stormwing said it themselves, they see M&S as usurpers trying to take for themselves what rightfully belongs to the princesses. Flooding Ponyville only added to that hatred. While at least Earthborn and Stormwing can work together and tough they might have different goals, their goals don't ENTIRELY clash against one another. They are enemies but can ally themselves when they need to.

3776587
Not worthy of elitism, but at least being able to hold their ground against superior forces is a good enough.

I didn't play chess that often, but when I lose more than 3 or 4 pawns, my head tells me things gonna be bad. So chess is actually pretty good simulation for Stormwing's situation, by which even a single pawn counts! Love how you simulated it. Now I need to remind myself that Stormwing are basically Spartan Mongols with really low numbers. They are trained like Spartans, but with tactics of the Mongols. Mongols relied on psychological warfare, which would probably only be employed by M&S and the Cult. Stormwings are not nomads like the Mongols, but settles on their Flying Cities maintaining order in Equestria, in their own territory.

Maintaining order for Equestria until the princesses returns. . . that's reasonable enough for Stormwing to want to control Equestria, or eliminate major factions. M&S's are usurpers of the throne in their eyes, so they are their targets. Earthborns are separatists, thus making them their target as well. Whitegold's corruption affects the opposite of public order, so they should be interested in controlling that territory too. Everfree and the Cult are obvious threats to Equestria's order, the former expanding wildly, and the latter plagued all over Equestria. Maybe if Stormwing gained more territory, it would mean more recruits, and thus larger armies to compensate the lengthy training of each recruits.

If they want to control Equestria, then siege is inevitable. Like I'd said, they could starve them out by raiding any supplies that would go into the settlement. They don't actually need to close in to the settlement itself, just cutting any supplies going in from the sky, maybe hiding the outposts I suggested behind the real clouds. Stormwing's aerial superiority would give them a large view of the area. They would anticipate any anti-aerial weapons or armies coming in from afar, giving them more than enough time to judge / plan their next move. Stormwing's aerial superiority also includes superior reconnaissance. They are cautious by using their scouts to learn what they are against with first. The Wind Riders are their scouts, and they are fast.

Could someone post the history or the rise of Stormwing like with Moon and Star?

3779248
I've never read Stormwing's journal, didn't even know there is one!

: Just a little thing I noticed, but no one has bought the topic up yet as far as I know...

: The Griffin Kingdoms; notice the plural of the last word. I've checked both the map and the canon characters' list, definitely not a typo...

This likely means that the griffins are not quite a unitary state ruled by a monarch. I propose they use the same system of the Holy Roman Empire, elective monarchy. The kingdoms would be equivalents to Imperial States. Rulers of these bow only to the Emperor who has more power than them...

: So the point is; there are multiple kingdoms, each possibly being unique in their own way..!

3779248 Very late reply but CK was able to post the backstory of some of the groups.

Unless she had just recently found them, then her not posting anything in the stormwing thread most likely means that there never was one to begin with.

if there was one then its probably long gone now. If they were in a thread CK would have found it when she did the whole clean up and posted it. And we know that we can't find the journals anywhere anymore unless PY suddenly decides to post all of his journals again.

From what it looks like, we should consider ourselves lucky that CK even found ANY of the journals at all. But i doubt anybody has the journals saved anywhere now.

4277598
I had never noticed this actually. I'm actually quite a big fan of the Griffons and kinda sad they get little screen time during the main show.

For some reason i considered them more like multiple small tribes... ok well not TRIBES like the Everfree tribes but i mean more like plenty of small groups, maybe clans. I never actually thought of the Griffon Kingdom as being big actually. I mean big enough to support an entire race but not Equestria big or anything.

One thing id like to know is, what is the Griffon Kingdom? Is it all ice and snow, mountains and such, are there flat areas? Is it like Stone castles and such built into or on top of mountains or within openings and valleys within the land? I never put much thought into the griffon kingdom before which is terrible of me because their actually playing a major role in ED

So, since the Griffon Kingdom is so important to Stormwing... what do YOU think the Griffon kingdom is?

: "Greyfeathers Expeditionary Force", that's one official name from someplace small...

: The "S", plural! 4294610! Plural..!

Hmm... consider the northern mountains as an equivalent to the Alps, the barrier that shields the Italian Peninsula from her invaders. Based from Hannibal, it would be interesting that the Expeditionary Force arrived when Stormwing needed them, Maybe their armies was being decimated by their enemies, then they showed up. Saved from their extinction, how could their saviors possibly be denied? Surely wouldn't put personal grudges on this kind of matter...

We all know that beyond the Alps lies Gaul and Germania, modern France and Germany (Along with other countries) respectively, and we all know the landscape of Europe, don't we now? Also, I like how the Nhorse came from the "deep north". It is likely that they are neighbors to the Griffins as how the Danes are to the Holy Roman Empire...

"Kingdoms" signify a collection of kingdoms, each being similar in power. The only one who has more authority over them would be the Emperor, the King of Kings. The fact that they do not call themselves an Empire is because they are not technically, assuming that comparing a Griffin to a Keythong is like comparing a German to a Dutch...

"The Holy Roman Empire is neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire."
Voltaire, 1694 - 1778

Yeah, they can't be called an empire because they aren't diverse enough. We can assume that either they are just a confederation of kingdoms, or they elect a leader to lead them too. Which do you guys prefer..?

: As for the Kingdoms themselves, I have a few ideas in mind...

4296142
KingdomS. Yea i dont know why i considered them tribes for the longest time. or atleast large tribes. Anyways moving on.

As for the whole Gaul Germania and other things, lets just say I'm HORRIBLE with geometry, hence the reason i use a map to help me locate everything(and why I'm so glad there IS a map at all for ED)

So exactly what defines a "Kingdom"? I'm assuming an Empire is like you said, a really large group of Kingdoms or other similar things that are diverse enough from one another to consider them different however they all follow a single MAJOR ruler (each having their own leaders and such), connecting them all together. This kinda reminds me of Dynasty warriors again (dynasty warriors 8 empires to be exact, if i remember correctly.)in which china is an Empire if i'm not mistaken, however there are many territories, each with its own ruler and each with its own culture and such from what i can tell, however there is also the Emperor which shows clear signs of having more power then anyone else. So like if you helped the emperor, he could in turn tell your enemies to stop an attack against you and they would have to listen because supposedly nobody goes against the emperors orders.

Since the Griffon Kingdom is NOT an Empire, then that would mean they are either multiple separate Kingdoms or possibly similar to the china i described within Dynasty warriors however lacking that key diversity that makes them an Empire.

Personally id go with the later a bit, first of all it just seems weird to me that there would be so many kingdoms willing to help out JUST Stormwing to the point where Stormwing can actually have decent enough numbers to fight. However something that really bugged me is how the Griffons where set to betray Stormwing eventually, and it would be odd if ALL the kingdoms just suddenly betrayed them and took over, because then which kingdom deserves the territory they take? Wouldn't there then be another civil war between themselves to see who takes Stormwings territory? It almost feels like a unified decision from the kingdoms, possibly because its like you said, they all might have their own rulers but they elect (or through some other means chose) a leader that has higher authority over any of the Kingdoms, That way it could be the leader himself/herself that chose to betray Stormwing. I'm still a little confused as to exactly how the whole Empire Kingdoms thing works though so all of this could be impossible due to how much Authority this "Leader" has.

Anyways that's how i see it judging from what you said, I'm less experienced with Politics, leaders, Kings and rulers and such, which you seem to know much more then i do on the subject, so I'll simply give my opinion based off the information you give me regarding this subject. After we get this down we could potentially go more into details about their land and such.

Now going on the subject of when the Griffons came to help. I think Stormwing would have taken their help anyways, from what we understand Stormwing has a very low number of troops, due to this disadvantage, they would take any help they can get to increase their numbers and strength. To the point of making the desperate decision of enlisting the help of the Griffons which apparently, they were EXPECTING the griffons to betray them eventually. Its quite possible they were in a desperate situation, even lower numbers and possibly loosing quite drastically but I feel like this whole alliance was bound to happen one way or the other. Stormwing is settled in the north, higher up is the Griffon kingdom. Stormwing needs help and the Griffon have got an elite and dangerous army that fits right into their style of combat. Its pretty much common sense to want to enlist their help if you absolutely needed it. Now if Stormwing was in a much better position, i doubt they would have taken their help because of the inevitable betrayal they all knew would come eventually, but alas that was not the case and desperate times called for desperate measures. Maybe, the griffons saving them isn't what caused them to want their help, but instead was the final push Stormwing needed to finally decide to accept them.

Dunno, I just think that Dash would have sought out the help of the Griffons earlier then waiting for them to magically come out of nowhere and save them. She hates loosing and has a LOT of pride, but she's not stupid, if she was, Stormwing would have been crushed long ago.

: Gee, I'm a Tree!

: But seriously, I believe you meant Geography, 4298417. I've been through the confusion before...

Kingdom : a country, state, or territory ruled by a king or queen.

: Queendom would sound ridiculous, would it not..?

: I booked a trip to Wikipedia, you should too...

Empire : a geographically extensive group of diverse states and ethnics ruled by a central authority.

: Nope, not only Kingdoms are subjects to an Empire. The British Empire should be enough of an example...

During the fall of the Han Dynasty, everyone pretty much went on their own, ignoring the young Emperor. The Sengoku Period of Japan fits into this, however, as the Emperor is still respected, but the Shogunate was in demand for its political power. Imagine Shining Armor as the Emperor and as the Shogun, see the picture..?

In China, the Emperor's name was used to signify a just cause for a war. The absolute power of the title dwindled due to corrupted eunuchs appointed by the Emperor at first, then manipulation due to young age of the next one, then manipulation by Cao Cao, then finally abdication by his son, Cao Pi...

: That China we've been referring to became various city-states, differing not by much from the Greeks'...

We can assume that the Greyfeathers are a joint operation between the Kingdoms. If they aren't a unitary state, being not quite "Holy Roman Empire", then they are in pretty good terms. At first, I was thinking of this being Gilda's personal revenge of some sort. But it would be more interesting to see how she and would bond after all the shenanigans back in Season 1, Griffon the Brush Off...

Multiple Kingdoms also offer an explanation to how Gilda is referred to as "Griffon", but her race being called generally "Griffins" here. This race has some number of alternatives, that's for sure. Griffins, Griffons, Gryphons, Alces, Keythongs, Hippogriffs: just naming possible racial Kingdom division...

If it's indeed, a joint effort, then they would have already agreed on the territorial split; no war over the Northern Expansion, that I am sure of. It would be much simple if they are more "Holy Roman Empire"...

The Empire is very peculiar, indeed. From what I know, rulers of the "Imperial States" obey the Emperor that was elected. In return, those rulers have Sovereignty, full right to govern their territories without interference. Would it sound better if the Griffins are united under one Emperor in this system, or disunited but in good terms..?

I just re-checked, the Expeditionary Force is a recent thing, definitely not a thing that happened like 5 years ago or so. Stormwing is at war, constantly. If not the Tribes, then the Mages, they would need any help they can get. Though a sudden move, any rational commander would accept the offer, and any cunning commander would plan a fail safe...

Now let's take this a bit more personal, a bit off topic. What's the relationship between and Gilda? Maybe they became good friends again, romantically if you ship them...

Have you ever heard of the Four Beauties? Oh, they are the best examples of manipulation through lust. Just in case any of us wants to see this kind romantic relationship happen...

: How they denoted these four... I just have to share..!

Xi Shi - Her Beauty made fishes forgot how to swim and sank unto the water...

Zhao Jun - Her Beauty made birds forgot how to fly and fell from the sky...

Diao Chan - Her Beauty made the moon eclipsed itself, knowing its face incomparable to her's...
Basically, Luna's a troll compared to her...

Gui Fei - Her Beauty made flowers look down, being incomparable to her face...

: Seeing this in Equestria is sky-rocket high unlikely, but would be a nice touch. did similar things to her now dead husband whose murderer was never caught and possibly forgotten after all...

: But seriously, what if Gilda is this kind of Pretty? And she somewhat manipulated ..?

: Toss in those Fanservice humor, then we have some delicious salad here...

Looking into Stormwing was easy, which I don't like. When it's easy, there's bound to be something missed in there.