I pressed it (not mine)

Comments

[Subsistence]

Salute.

[Final fantasy forever]

.....*gets myself a soft drink, plays His Theme, then smiles and slowly presses the button*

[Connect-the-Pie]

5240860
*’His Theme’ slowly crescendos*

[ponybird21]

Yeetuses the Feetuses

[Stolenalicorn]

But it was Chara who devised the plan, Chara who takes your soul/body when resetting a genocide run (has anyone completed a pacifist run after a Genocide run? It's not happily ever after.) They were who they were even with Toriel and Asgore as happy, loving parents.
Bringing Chara back would be a mistake. No matter how happy it would Make Toriel at the time.
I prefer the option Frisk took in A Dreamer Reborn. Frisk gave up his soul after countless reruns trying to figure out how to SAVE Asriel and the two now inhabit one body.

And after countless tries...I knew there was only one way. I once thought it was something I couldn't bring myself to do... But... no matter how much you denied it. I could see your hand reaching out to mine, for every single moment we were together. You were always just out of reach.
...but for this last time, I found the DETERMINATION to reach just a bit farther. And hold onto you, with everything I have. And after all we've been through. After all we've done together. I won't let go.

I refuse to.

The TV Tropes page. The Tumblr where it came from.
Allusions of the comic on Chara's character aside, Chara was not a good person.

[Crystal Hoof]

5240875
Did you know chara actually hesitates to kill flowey and you need to give the command to

[Stolenalicorn]

5240887
I never got past Sans. All that proves is that we can be just as bad as Chara.
But it is food for thought.
The one Chara is hesitant about. I mean, it's a start. Not a good one, but a start none the less.

[Final fantasy forever]

5240893

[Final fantasy forever]

5240862
*smiles softly as soul shatters*

[Stolenalicorn]

5240909
While I didn't watch the whole half hour video, (rich coming from me, I know) the real evil in Undertale is the player, because it's the player's choices. Chara is just the reflection of that. There's a lot to read into with every interaction you have in the game. Like the dialog hunters who kill different characters in different combinations across successive play throughs just to get different reactions, Sans even alludes to this in one of his judgments. But it is still cannon in the game that Chara devised the plan to die have Asriel take his soul and cross the barrier. (The tapes in the true lab) Asriel himself said it was Chara in his body that brought them to that village and it was all Asriel could do to keep him from killing them. Asriel admits that Chara wasn't a good person.

[Final fantasy forever]

5240915
Watch the rest of the video, they cover that. It was a sacrifice, they just needed the other human souls, Chara would be one, the rest would make enough to break the barrier, killing six to save an entire civilization, give them the freedom and hope they needed.

[Stolenalicorn]

5240916
This relies on as much speculation, if not more, than Game Theory's "Is Sans Ness?" Video. Don't get me wrong, there's a couple things in it that are alright, but this twists what is there and put's words and actions on Chara with actually no evidence despite what they say. They attribute things to Chara that would more simply be attributed to Frisk and even Asriel, and even at times the player.
Occam's Razor.
Seriously, so much speculation. They even place motivation onto player with no way of knowing.

But we only truly mercy them for the true pacifist ending.

At that point I was ready to mercy Flowey (out of sheer bloody mindedness, I was not giving him the satisfaction that FIGHTing him would have brought.) And chose it not knowing there even was a true pacifist ending. All I knew when I got the game was that it was a game where I could win without fighting. (Yeah, I was wrong and had to fight Asgore, but lost a lot trying to spare him.)

[Final fantasy forever]

5241053
What in particular?
In the one video you find in true labs, you can hear Asriel talking about how they just needed six souls and that they would get them together. They planned this long ahead with Asriel, Asriel just didn't have what it took to go through with it.

How would you ever, and I mean ever, go through a Genocide run without knowing? Let's say for a moment, you wanted to explore for secrets, or thought it was like any RPG where you grinded for XP. The moment you get your first "...But nobody came." Should have set off red flags, seeing the red dialogue should have set off red flags, 1 hit killing toriel should have set off red flags, Flowey plotting killing your way through the underground should have set off red flags, all the opportunities to spare people? You have to throw them away, all the chances to drop your knife? You have to swing it instead. One would need the perception of a deaf bat to not know what they were doing was pure evil when you got out of your way to kill every living being in an area, kill those who want to show you mercy, try and kill a child.
Making a few unknown actions, I sort of get, doing mercy without knowing the true pacifist run, I get, even putting your foot in the door of the genocide run, I can get; but when you don't take that foot out, when you creep further in, you know what you're doing, and you're doing it anyway.

[Stolenalicorn]

5241069

How would you ever, and I mean ever, go through a Genocide run without knowing?

I said I did a Pacifist run without knowing.
I pulled that from when they were showing Flowey demanding you kill him during a pacifist run.

[Final fantasy forever]

5241071
May be slightly deflecting here but hey, I'm curious what can I say.
From what you said in your response, did you show Flowey mercy because you wanted to be good and merciful, because you thought he deserved to live and wanted to help raise him up instead of going down to his level? Or was this merely to prove him wrong and not give him what he wanted?

[Stolenalicorn]

5241075
For me, I simply wanted to prove him wrong. An entirely selfish motive, but not the motive proscribed to me.

[Final fantasy forever]

5241076
Let me make sure I am understanding which part you were talking about

Heck, at some points we only mercy because we know it's what we have to do to get a true pacifist run, I.E Flowey.

Keywords "at some points" I.E not everyone but in some cases which is speculation yes but grounded in plenty of reality to where I don't think anyone would disagree there are players there that only showed mercy because they wanted the good ending and knew of its existence.

[Stolenalicorn]

5241088

Keywords "at some points" I.E not everyone but in some cases which is speculation yes but grounded in plenty of reality to where I don't think anyone would disagree there are players there that only showed mercy because they wanted the good ending and knew of its existence.

"At some points" dose not imply not everyone but rather points in the game where you only spare others for the pacifist run. For what you're saying the key words would have been "Heck, in general there are points we only mercy because we know it's what we have to do to get a true pacifist run, I.E Flowey."
The phrase they use is still prescriptive as to my motive.
And while I don't disagree with the statement that there are people who only make the choices because of the knowledge of a good ending, that's a point to use a generalizing term.
And her, at some points, holier than though attitude don't resonate well with me and, in fact, remind me as to why I generally avoid the Undertale fandom despite being a fan myself. I'll even encourage people to do a genocide run at least until they get to Sans' offer of mercy for the character depth you see on that path.
There's no argument from me that the player is the villain of Undertale, and the the game doesn't need a villain. And not even that it was your actions that made Chara worse. But to say Chara was just being dragged along and twisted by you, especially since he starts controlling things so early in a genocide run, is just plain wrong. But that being said, I believe I'll stop here as I don't want this to devolve into an argument.
I'll admit there were a couple things that I learned on Chara's perspective, but that's not enough for me to change my mind as to their character. Definitely not to the point that video tries to impress upon me.
Let me clarify that I would inevitably turn it into an argument. Not necessarily that you would.

[Final fantasy forever]

5241103
well looking at it yes I do agree with you, though to play devil's advocate because I think it would be hypocritical of me not to, I did not see anything wrong with what she had said, likely I could have said the same thing while meaning another. Sometimes I am not the best with my words and the the line where one sentence means one thing and starts meaning another can be hazy. Entirely speculation here no denying that, but possible she did not deliver the message properly, when making a long winded spiel I tend to make mistakes, small things but enough to change what I was trying to convey.
I suppose there were some preachy points, but again in defense, I have seen plenty of comics, fanfiction, ect, that seem to try and put blame to Chara when the choice to Fight was yours. Admittedly, they could have been more humble in their video, not denying that, but I would be a hypocrite to say I would be that humble, I'm not utterly shameless, but I can at times be witty and rub things in people's faces, not often, but more than I would like to.
I understand as well, I tend to get arguments started, not always heated ones but arguments nonetheless. In truth, I think there's nothing wrong with an argument so long as we remain civil, arguments are presenting a thesis and antithesis, and if done correctly, both sides learn something new and change their understanding. In truth, from what you had said, and from what I have learned from you, that was already achieved to some level, to some degree.

As a side note, they did apparently make a follow up video, have not watched it, but for the sake of things will put it here in the event you decide to, maybe they refurbish some of their points, maybe they don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uY1Eyk8frk&feature=emb_rel_pause

Edit:
I just realized this, is that Luca in your avatar?

[Stolenalicorn]

5241191

I just realized this, is that Luca in your avatar?

Yes it is. I've got the full picture on my profile page. Chrono Trigger is my absolute favorite game. The fanfiction I posted on this site is ultimately a continuation of a long running fanfiction I've been writing for the better part of twenty years. I usually work on it when I'm stressed as a kind of escapism. Of course what's on here is the only place to find any of said fanfiction, mostly because of how accepting and friendly the MLP fandom is.
Also because during the winter my main computer moonlighted as a fireplace and what's here is now the surviving portion of said fanfic.
Devil's advocate is an important role and quite useful too, no problems coming from that perspective.
You're right about arguments in general, I'm just used to typical arguments ending up like this.

[Final fantasy forever]

5241224
You know, talking with you for this time I was starting to think you were a pretty cool person, now though, you've removed all doubt! ^W^
I loved that game so much, I had had it for a long time but never played it until my friend told me how good it was and I had to see it for myself, I was utterly blown away.

I understand that worry, there have been times it has devolved into that bitterness with me, it is far from pleasant.

[Stolenalicorn]

5241382
I own as many versions of the game that I can (Actually reviewed it on one of my blog entries.) My favorite has to be the DS version complete with cut scenes and even extra dungeons. Even the fetch quest dungeon doesn't bother me that much, (except the freaking boss!) partially because how well they integrate it with time travel, seeing differences with almost everything you do in the past.
And of course the 11th ending that leads well into both Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross.

[Crystal Hoof]

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5241382
Mind taking this to Pm's guy?