Defense Of Starlight Part 1: The Villain · 11:03am Jul 3rd, 2017
I've been out of the loop on the fandom for about two years. At the time I left, the only Starlight Glimmer episodes were The Cutie Map Pt. 1 and Pt. 2. Unlike Glimmer's later base-splitting episodes, those ones were generally well-received. I liked the Cutie Map. I thought that Glimmer made some great arguments, and was the best villain that we'd seen in the show thus far... because except for perhaps Chrysalis, SG was the only villain with compelling motives who didn't sound like a crazy person. She didn't want to kill all plant life with an eternal night, make the world a chaotic amusement park, or mutter "crysssstals" for no reason. She didn’t even want to conquer the world. She just wanted to be left alone in her little utopia with her markless town. Even that, aside from the brainwashing, could almost be noble.
Cutie marks are kinda bull, let's be honest. What would Leonardo Da Vinci's cutie mark be? He was good at a lot of stuff. What if you change your career choice due to the economy? Your mark wouldn’t change. Cutie marks could lead to stereotypes and prejudice. "Oh, your mark is X, you must be Y." What about griffons, donkeys, cows, etc? If you're a donkey applying for a job and you don't have a cutie mark of a file cabinet, then the hiring manager at Pony, Inc. might assume that you won't make as good of a file clerk as Paper Weight Willy over there. I addressed this in Brother Against Sister, of course... I mean, in a 350k word story, what didn't I address?
Back to Starlight, because I'm getting off track. Her arguments in the Cutie Map were dispelled because in a society where a magical, skill-granting mark on your butt gives you a talent, you really can't take that away without making everybody mediocre. Communism doesn't work, kids! Yet despite her town being reformed, she herself was not. Of course, that was because she had an additional, fundamental reason that she didn't like cutie marks. An emotional reason, which the rational result of her town's failure couldn't resolve. The Cutie Re-Mark reveals that she had lost a friend to a cutie mark.
Yeah, that’s a stupid reason to do what she did. It’s not exactly like losing a parent or ending up a quadriplegic in a wheelchair (I mean, she could float herself around with her horn, but still). Nevertheless, it was a trauma for her as a child, and it created an emotional motivation, which we hadn't seen in the Cutie Map where Starlight's arguments were all logic-based, if flawed. In fact, the emotional trauma of losing a friend had led Starlight to form a belief disliking cutie marks. This belief was later re-enforced by rational, non-emotional reasons, like the ones given above. This is often how people come to believe in religion (or atheism) or certain political beliefs in real life. They start out emotional, then they actually read about it and then have talking points other than “this makes me feel bad/good to believe.”
Thus, Starlight’s reform really takes a whopping four episodes. It starts when she sees the failure of her own ideas put into action, destroying her logical justification for hating cutie marks. It concludes when she sees the tortured future of Equestria and realizes that she can still make friends, which destroys her emotional justification for hating cutie marks. This rational/emotional dichotomy, and the examination of the process by which beliefs are formed in the mind and later abandoned, is a brilliant showcase. Even if it was unintentional on the writers’ part... I might be reading too much into a kids' show.
But apparently, the Cutie Re-Mark is where the fandom started to split on Starlight. They made some bad arguments, and some good ones. Bad arguments like: It was too easy for Twilight to convince her, even though I just explained how it took four episodes to fully resolve her villainy. Quite a lot by MLP standards already. It was too hard for Twilight to convince her, others said… even though finding out her motivation over losing a friend took over an episode to do itself. Or how about this complaint. Starlight Glimmer shouldn't have been able to levitate herself because that was always unpossible before! *Cough*... Bullshit... *Cough*
So those were the bad arguments against The Cutie Re-Mark. Here are the good arguments, of which there are two:
One: That SG was too good at magic to go up against Twilight Sparkle, an alicorn. Fair enough. Perhaps they should’ve given Starlight an alicorn amulent or an Element of Disharmony or something to make her power level more believable. Even without it, though, the fight is still believable… just barely, but still believable. Starlight was obsessive to the point of studying cutie mark magic and other, singular spells for years, which she mentions in the Cutie Map. Twilight was more concerned with learning a bunch of different spells than with focusing on a just a few like Starlight did.
Their fight took place mostly by beam spells. Twilight is the sort who only really uses beam spells in major villain fights. Otherwise, she’d probably be content to read a book about them and maybe calculate some magic beam trajectories on a blackboard. Whereas Starlight Glimmer is the sort who would probably shoot magic beams at tin cans every day for a year until she was really good at them. Practice is essential to magic. I’d imagine she would levitate herself up and down the stairs for hours until she was strong enough to enter Cloudsdale. One thing that SG’s character arc is missing is a training scene. Maybe even make it funny and reminiscent of the Rocky stairway training scene, except she's floating herself up the stairs instead of running up them.
Two: That SG was too easily forgiven by the mane six in the end, and no further episodes had them continue to distrust her like with Discord. Eh, I admit this is a problem. It’s not unique to SG, though. A couple of other villains in the show, except Discord, are easily forgiven once they pledge to be good. And Starlight’s crimes were relatively minor compared to taking over the world in darkness like Nightmare Moon wanted to (even if NMM was a separate entity, Luna still bears some blame for being receptive to it). What about the forgiveness thrown at the Crystal Empire even though they were an aggressor, warmongering nation. Yes, I said nation. Not just Sombra. Running an empire that size would’ve required thousands of bodyguards, secret police, and slave drivers. Even the princesses need bodyguards, and they’re alicorns who are well-loved and not a target for assassination by their own people. There was never a Nuremburg trial or investigation to find and prosecute (or redeem) the crystal ponies who undoubtedly would’ve helped Sombra run the equivalent of pony Nazi Germany. Everyone is just forgiven overnight for this terrible atrocity.
Starlight never ran Nazi Germany. She ran a small hippie cult that never declared war or hurt anybody outside the town. The worst thing that Starlight did was ruin the future by wrecking the past, but that wasn’t intentional on her part towards Equestria. To her, stopping the mane six from getting their cutie marks was at most an act of vengeance limited to just the six of them. It wasn’t like she wanted to kill them or maim them. Just get some revenge. She simply didn’t understand what a key part of history the Mane Six played, and how removing their marks and stopping their friendship would ruin Equestria. Once Starlight understood this, she was softened up and more willing to reform, until Twilight delivered the final emotional blow and examined her past experiences with friendship.
Well, this is getting kind of long, and I want to break this up a bit. Stay tuned for Part 2: Post-Redemption, where we discuss Starlight Glimmer as a character now that she’s been redeemed.
So what are your thoughts?
Was Starlight Glimmer a believable villain due to her limited scope of self-justified evil with a grain of truth to it, as I would say?
Or did shoddy writing, weak motivations, and overpowered magic make her one of the worst villains in the show, as I've seen others say?
First of all: your arguments were compelling and interesting, the arguments you have for liking Starlight are perfectly reasonable.
Second: I think that while Starlight's modus operandi as a villain was excellent, her motives were flimsy at best. I know its kind of realistic...but its not a very compelling motive, there's a fic that i like that addresses that problem its called "that's it?" .
Nonethelesss I've really enjoyed reading your blog post. Looking forward to part 2
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Thanks! Her motive of "losing a childhood friend" was one of the weakest parts of her character, I agree. I mean, who hasn't had to move away from a childhood friend, to another state? In the age before the internet, it was a lot harder to keep in touch. But we didn't all become sociopaths. I've seen theories that SG is a sociopath... I think that she clearly fits the definition in her villain arc. As a hero, though, I don't think she's still a sociopath. She has a couple indicators, but you need more than just a couple indicators.
I'll have to check out "That's it."
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Im not sure if I would call Starlight Glimmer a sociopath. I mean sure she does fit the description and criteria, she does not fit completely, the part where she doesnt meet the criteria is the fact that Starlight is better at planning than improvising and sociopaths are inmediate and fast in their pland, more oftenly than not failing at long term plans; also there are characters which can be mistaken as sociopaths, like Azula from The last airbender, who's actually a narcissist.
I think in gonna follow you
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Much appreciated!
Glimmer is a very methodical planner, this is true. A lot of sociopaths are reckless whim-worshippers. This is also true. I was basing my "diagnosis" off of this:
Alright, so Starlight has to hit 3 or more to be a sociopath according to this list.
http://www.md-health.com/Sociopath-Traits.html
Not really. Starlight cares about everypony feeling equal and accepted in her village, but she doesn't realize that equality isn't everything and that brainwashing is evil. I think she does care about their feelings, but goes about it in totally the wrong way.
Yes. Cutie marks are definitely a social norm that Starlight disregards. Time travel spells are recklessly irresponsible. Post-redemption we see her switch out the cutie marks of royalty with a spell, whereas most ponies wouldn't even lay a hoof on a member of royalty.
If you could call the relationships with the ponies in her town to be enduring during the time that she ran the town, then this might not apply. But her friendship with Sunburst that she didn't maintain by just writing the guy a few letters? I'm about 50/50 on this one. I'll give her half a point on this.
Eh, not really. When she was taking revenge against the mane six, she didn't try to physically harm them other than preventing them from all getting their cutie marks at the same time. Presumably they would've still gotten cutie marks, just in a different talent than the ones that they discovered after the Sonic Rainboom. But depending on how you classify "violence," and if it includes mind control magic, then Starlight would definitely score a point here for brainwashing a town as a villain, and for mind controlling her own friends post-redemption in Every Little Thing She Does. So we'll give her another half a point here.
Yes. Starlight doesn't really show any guilt until she's redeemed. As a villain, this would definitely apply to her. Post redemption, no way... she wouldn't even pick a decoration for her old town due to her guilt.
Yes. She blamed cutie marks for her inability to keep Sunburst as a friend. I don't know if that's a "plausible rationalization," but it seemed that way to her. And Starlight was definitely in conflict with Society as a villain.So she's up to 4, but she only needed 3. But it would probably take an actual psychologist to make that determination for sure.
Very well done arguments good sir or madam.
I agree with a lot of your arguments. Regarding Starlight holding off Twilight in a fight, besides the fact that Starlight just had to change the past minorly and Twilight had to preserve everything (a very unfair fight), we need as a fandom to accept the idea that being an alicorn doesn't make you a god. Given the number of times Celestia has had her flank handed to her, I think maybe alicorn ascension gives you 2, 3 times the magical power of a really powerful unicorn? Not 100 or 1,000 times. (Oliver, who has done more blogging on the logic of the world than anyone else, has pointed out that moving the sun may actually be not that hard, if the sun is a giant magical construct that just needs a nudge every 12 hours and you have the right cutie mark for it). So Twilight may have had an edge in raw power, but Starlight has age and focused combat training.
Agree on her motivations. On her reformation, musical montages are very fluid in time, that series of scenes with the Mane 6 befriending her and her apologizing to the ponies of Our Town could have taken place over months of time, everyone who hates it wants to assume it took place in a day for some reason.
Not sure about collective guilt of the Crystal Empire though. The only time we've seen any Crystal Pony other than Sombra be evil, it was when they were wearing those creepy glowing helmets that implied Sombra was mind-controlling them. Could one evil archmage with a huge collection of Imperius helmets actually run a nation and prosecute a war? Maybe, maybe not. (Oh, and Princess Amore was pretty darn evil, but that comes from comics).
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"That's It?" is written by Jaythebrony, arguably one of the fandoms worst authors in terms of hearing about "decent" ideas, running with them, and tripping due to his own lack of skill. He's mediocre to the point of being terrible, and gets sycophant reinforcement to prevent him from getting better.
The story itself is terrible. It takes all the bad arguments at face value, and warps things to make up new, even worse arguments whole cloth. It is in fact a great demonstration of how to do this whole argument about as badly as you could possibly do so.
In other news, if you're going to be doing this whole "examine Starlight in a reasonable way" as well as you're doing so far, you're going to make obsolete my own pans to do similar things. I'll yield initiative to you and see if there is anything left worth blogging about when you're done. Also, this choice lets me procrastinate more.
Further on topic:
The "strong' arguments concerning Unicorn vs Alicorn do rely entirely on headcanon. Sure, there is some degree of mechanical/measurable depiction of the quantity of magic power due to the S4 finale with Tirek. Twilight+3 alicorns roughly equal to all ponies magic + Discord's magic, modified by whatever efficiency rations both Twilight and Tirek endure individually.
But the fact that Starlight had a huge defender's advantage in that any change, including Twilight beating her, could count as a win for Starlight as long as it stopped Rainbow Dash from racing, was a giant advantage. Starlight didn't need to fight to win, just fight to stall. Twilight is also not a terribly aggressive (in a warrior sense) fighter. It took several times in bad timelines to get her worked up to that level of fighting where she was aiming to hurt Starlight.
But no, most people go "alicorn = win, duh. Starlight OP because she breaks that rule!"
I do fully agree with your assessment of the emotional+logical setup and breakdown. Yes, her "seed" motivation was flimsy, but it was emotional and she was a child. We don't know the specific details of what reinforced it and grew that seed further, but it is clear that it was something logical and reinforcing to get us from that start to what we saw in the premier. Your analogies of religion/etc. illustrate that very well. That is indeed the main focus of my own blog on the topic so far.
My stance is that her original motivation being that weak and not well explained is fertile ground for fanfic, not a weakness of the show or the character. As others have pointed out many times in these discussions, "weak backstory" is basically every character in the series. How many fics have been written to give us a backstory for Luna and Celestia? There are groups of people hammering out intricate headcanons, producing art, fanfics, videos, and songs about their childhood. What kind of person grows up to be Luna->Nightmare Moon? We don't even have as much of an answer for that as we have for Starlight Glimmer. Luna's motivation was, "people sleep at night and don't praise me enough." This becomes even weaker a motivation when we see that Luna steps into ponys' dreams and helps them.
So, yeah. The divide is silly. Just enjoy a new character, respect that she's actually pretty well written, and she's fun. Far more interesting than Luna, who has scores of fanboys. Or ignore/tolerate her like we have been doing with Spike and Applejack for years now. Whatevs.
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You're spot on. Twilight isn't a god. She's the best at magic overall, true. That doesn't mean that she's unbeatable. If magic is more of a mental game like chess, even the greatest grandmasters sometimes lose to lesser-ranked opponents. If magic is more of a physical game like football, then I'm reminded of the "any given sunday" adage from the NFL. Any given Sunday, two professional, well trained teams could conceivably win against another team, even one with a perfect win-loss record. Because there are so many variables.
"But she's an alicorn!!11one!" some of the fans might say.
Yeah, alicorns are more powerful than regular unicorns. Twilight got a power boost when she became an alicorn, but we don't know by what multiple. Even still, though, that was one of the things I really didn't like about Magical Mystery Cure... you are giving more magical power to a character who is already able to solve most of her problems either through her own magic, or through the combined efforts of her magic and her friends. Her group of equal friends, who often contributed to solving a crisis or saving Ponyville just as much, if not more, than Twilight did. Making Twilight the only princess among them kind of undercut the idea of all that. They should've all become princesses, or none of them should've.
I remember thinking at the time that MLP would have to power up its villains to keep the situations challenging for Twilight. That, or they would have to have more situations where Twilight conveniently forgets things like her teleportation spell, or other spells she's used. Which, to be fair, they would've had to do to some extent anyway since Twilight would've kept discovering new spells and getting better at magic even if she was never made an alicorn. But if Twilight can just magically wreck anypony that stands in her way, it takes away from all of the tension. Lo and Behold, I was right, and Tirek was likely the most powerful villain that we've ever seen on screen.
Starlight, though, wasn't. But they put her in a situation where she had a strategic advantage over Twilight. They gave her, essentially a handicap by saying that all she had to do to win over Twilight was to disturb the timeline slightly. But for Twilight to win, she had to defeat Starlight in a matter of seconds before Starlight could disrupt the timeline... obviously without doing something evil like using dark magic to make Starlight's heart stop beating.
Most complaints that I've seen revolve around the actual fight scene between them. The beam spell matchup. Which was kind of Powerpuff-Girl-esque, and while I will believe that the scene didn't need to be in the episode, it was far from the most implausible thing in that episode. Especially since, as I've explained, Starlight could've shot at tin cans for months, building up her power while Twilight was busy learning how to turn mice into horses, or put a mustache on Spike, or appear in the image of a music box. Some other spell that might be useful in a non-combat situation.
What was truly implausible about the Cutie Re-Mark had nothing to do with Starlight. It had to do with the ethos of Equestria as a whole, and a little seven-letter word that we hear a lot in the show. Destiny. Cutie marks are supposed to be marks of destiny. Even if Rainbow Dash hadn't done the sonic rainboom on that particular day, what would've stopped her from doing it on some other day, if it was indeed her *destiny*? A destiny is some grand plan for your life as a whole, not something as arbitrary as whether or not one particular race with a group of bullies goes a certain way. RD's friends would've probably just gotten their cutie marks the normal way, and in the exact same skill. We even see Applejack at the farm in the Sombra war timeline... so I assume that still she went back from Manehattan and discovered that she really did want to stay there and farm apples. She didn't need some rainbow in the sky to tell her that... it was already part of her destiny, already part of her personality.
Additionally, are we expected to believe that in such a vast land as Equestria, with thousands or possibly millions of ponies, that there wasn't one other group of friends who could've saved the day from Nightmare Moon, or King Sombra, or Chrysalis? Are we supposed to believe that Twilight Sparkle was the only pony at Celestia's school who she taught the value of friendship to? I mean, later episodes actually go with my premise above... where reformed Starlight, Trixie, Discord, and Thorax go off to save everypony from the Changelings. The Mane Six are not the only ponies in Equestria who are capable of heroism. What about Secret Agent Bon Bon? Equestria has an entire intelligence service apparently, but they couldn't field a Seal-Team Six type group of commandos to go take out Sombra if the mane six hadn't been able to do it in that timeline?
A bunch of mind control helmets aren't really plausible compared to the idea of willing collaborators. It would've required Sombra to be the best multi-tasker of all time, able to control literally hundreds of bodyguards, slave drivers, and military commanders all at once that he'd need to rule an empire that size. Hell, even a city that size (which, the city is the only part of the "empire" that we ever see). So add secret police, firehouse captains, mayors and city councilmembers to run a city to the list as well. What about Sombra's butlers, valets, footmen, etc. in his palace. Were they all mind controlled, too? At some point it gets ridiculous because now we're into the thousands of helmets.
Unless the mind control helmets don't require his active concentration in order to work. Unless it's just a "set it and forget it" type deal where he can just put it on your head and it makes you serve him unquestioningly, using your own intelligence to do what you think he would want. (which Every Little Thing She Does shows that mind controlled ponies can act pretty stupidly, so the magic would have to be more powerful than that.)
But that raises the question of where he would get even one of such a powerful helmet, let alone hundreds or thousands of helmets. It also raises the question of where he would get slave drivers to put his helmets on in the first place, if he's taking over and enslaving an empire that didn't already have slavery of its own to begin with.
Slave driving is more than just cracking a whip. It's a profession. An evil profession, but still something that requires a certain degree of skill. You have to watch the slaves and make sure they don't escape. You have to coordinate whatever work the slaves are doing, and give them direction to manage their project. You have to be able to monitor them closely and make sure that they aren't plotting a rebellion. You have to constantly be on alert and watch your back so that a single, rogue slave doesn't hit you over the head with his pickaxe or a rock or something.
Mind control is one thing, it controls somebody's will. But it doesn't give them a skillset that they didn't already possess. Did Sombra train all of these mind-controlled slave drivers himself? How? How did he have the knowledge to train a slave driver? Some of the stuff is common sense things like I mentioned above, but some of it would surely require direct experience to be a competent slave driver.
The same arguments that I just used for slave drivers could be used for a military. Maybe the crystal empire had a pre-existing military before Sombra came along that he could've enslaved. Even if they did, I doubt that it was one that was used to waging constant, aggressive warfare against Equestria. It was probably used for defensive purposes only, like Celestia's royal pegasus guards, which would've been much smaller than what Sombra needed. They probably didn't employ the sort of tactics that you'd need to become a conqueror. In fact, I doubt they even taught those tactics at their military academies. So who taught them how to wage war? That is a skill set. Mind control helmets can't make Joe Quartz the border guard captain of a peaceful country into Erwin Rommel... because of difference in skill.
Also, if there were indeed mind control helmets rather than willing collaborators, why have we never seen such a thing on the show? Either in use by Sombra, or by another villain who might've found these helmets useful. I mean, we got to see Queen Chrysalis use her changeling powers and we got to see ponies get put into cocoons. We got a sense of how they were able to pull off their feat. With Sombra, we didn't.
Or, you could avoid all of those plot holes and implausible scenarios by positing the much more plausible scenario that Sombra had willing participants within the empire who helped him. Maybe crystal ponies who lusted after power just like he did. I dunno, that just makes more sense.
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It's sir, and thanks!
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Great blog post on the subject. Great minds think alike. You've earned a follow from me just for that. I agree with almost everything you said in your blog post.
That said, I think that your section on forgiveness and society could be fleshed out a little better. The show teaches the aspect of forgiveness. But it isn't just blind, unearned forgiveness.
Evil people, mistaken people, criminals, etc. have to demonstrate that they're willing to change and reform themselves *first,* in order to be forgiven. They have to show regret for their crimes. Only then is forgiveness offered, and a path to reform given. Even as "easy" as we often think it is for villains to earn leniency and forgiveness in the show, at the very least they don't just throw unearned forgiveness at villains who show no remorse. Luna isn't forgiven until she 1. Stops being nightmare moon and 2. shows remorse. Starlight isn't forgiven until she 1. Stops trying to seek revenge against Twilight and 2. Shows remorse for what she's done. Discord's redemption is a bit more complicated, but I think more nuanced because he continues to have chaotic tendencies throughout the show's run, thus he is never fully trusted or fully forgiven by the group.
Compare that to the sort of unearned forgiveness and leniency dished out by, say, the Norwegian justice system. Anders Breivik killed 72 kids and showed absolutely no remorse or guilt during his trial or after. He showed no mental problems, either... he was judged by a Norwegian court to be sane. So he knew full well what he was doing and was in full control of his actions. The former judge of the case stated that Breivik should have received the death penalty. He was dismissed simply because he wasn't "nice" enough and didn't agree with his overly-soft society outlawing capital punishment.
Yet instead of being locked in a concrete cell where he can think long and hard about what he's done, or being put on death row with a year to express remorse or he's toast, he is instead put at a nice resort-like condition. His maximum sentence is 21 years, instead of life imprisonment. All this for a man who showed zero remorse. Norway is putting the cart before the horse. You don't give a more lenient treatment to a prisoner before he shows remorse. That is unearned forgiveness. It's as illogical as the unearned anger displayed by fans at Starlight Glimmer.
Or another example being the Charleston church shooting. The pastor of that church, and a lot of other people in the Christian community said that they "forgave" Dylan Roof (also found to be sane by the courts, and sentenced to death.) The families of the victims stated that they forgave him, because that's "what Christianity teaches." This was despite him being fully sane, aware of his actions, and showing zero remorse for his actions.
I'm not a Christian, but I respect Christians who are pure-hearted, kind, and consistent with their faith. Even as an atheist, though, my beliefs regarding forgiveness are actually closer to the teachings of Jesus than these so-called "Christians" who blindly forgave Dylan Roof, or the State-sponsored Church of Norway's anti-death penalty views. (One example of why Separation of Church and State is what makes America such a unique country)
Jesus makes it clear that forgiveness is offered by his sacrifice for humanity's sins. Any sins, up to and including mass murder, are covered by him dying on the cross. However, the sinner must 1. Acknowledge that he is a sinner, 2. Feel and express remorse, 3. Ask for forgiveness and 4. Thereafter, make the attempt to live a good life as free from sin as possible for a flawed human to do. Only then is forgiveness offered. Those are basic tenants of Christianity.
I hope I don't seem insulting to the families of victims, and I acknowledge the incredible suffering they went through by losing their loved ones. But that doesn't make their views on forgiveness correct.
How sad for the present, but perhaps encouraging for the future, that a kids' cartoon has a better philosophical conception of forgiveness than many in Western society. Sombra displays no remorse or chance for redemption, so he is "executed" (at least as close as a kids' show could get to showing a character being killed). The characters who are forgiven, are not forgiven unconditionally. Conditions of reform are attached. If only our society, churches, and justice systems worldwide could more resemble those examples.
So how much of the series of you seen as of now?
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More. Still not all, but more than when I wrote this. I'm working on Pt.2 now.