5209591 5209631
I'm making a thread for idea's like this right now.

S.W.B.

5210356 Seriously?

5210445
Yes, it will help clear the clutter in the world building threads,

why didn't I think of this sooner.

S.W.B.

5210456 Isn't that why we are all here?
So long as you recognnize what is good/canon, in order to pull it out of the pile for the greater story.
Sometimes, it is the insignificant comment that set the line of thought ablaze, and starts off that epic story.

5210493
No kidding.

S.W.B.

5210456 We will conquer fimfiction with this thing at the end of autumn.

5210506
We shall see, my friend, we shall see.

S.W.B.

5210510 I know it.

5210496 One guy can't have all the good ideas?

Right now, I guess this is the pace for me to enjoy. Just discussing all the ideas ..

5202084

How much power/energy/magic would each drone have available? I don’t mean to sound condenscending or anything, however I am curious. (I’m thinking that each drone would have the magical capacity just below a unicorn, but that wouldn’t go well with your Conservation of Ninjutsu)

Yeah, that's about how I imagined it. In a fight, one drone needs to be about as effective as one pony of any race, but consistently weaker. Their strength comes in numbers and superior inter-personal communication - the "hive mind" you mentioned.

If I had to use maths to calculate a rough representation of the drones' power, I'd say it takes a thousand drones to match one alicorn.

5202208

For the common Changeling, not of the Royal line, that would make sense. They have both Flight and Magic, but this never made them into Alicorns before. Like in the episode where Twilight enhanced Rarity with the beautiful Butterfly wings, or the Breezies event.

I'm dubious to accept this, as where else have we seen winged, magical ponies? Alicorns are the only ones that I know of. It sounds like we're trying to draw arbitrary lines to separate changelings from Alicorns, even when they're anatomically identical. Moreover, it's important to know the drones' parentage before you classify them: to my understanding, this would make Chrysalis the literal mother of all changelings. If she was, at one point, an Alicorn, then that would make every drone an Alicorn, too. However, because they don't exhibit the same strengths as alicorns, they would be degenerate.

My headcanon is that Chrysalis was an Alicorn, and was dithering with spells similar to D&D's True Shapechange. It's another Icarus story, where ambition, curiosity, or pride stripped away reason, and she was punished - maybe by gods, maybe by ponies - for crossing some arbitrary line in the sand.

Maybe it was better to rename the clasification to Royal, since these are seen as Royal characters. If we will ever see a Changeling Prince, he would be equal to the Qqueen in general, with gender modifications. At least for the Adventure, we wouldn't need the social intricasies on the Changeling Royal Court here? Knowing a few things of the Changeling Society and Sociology would do just fine.

This isn't how taxonomy works. Everything that exists is a modified version of whatever its precursors were; in effect, you can't outgrow your heritage. All ponies would necessarily share a common ancestry, but more importantly, everything proceeding from there would be ponies. Ponies have defined traits that distinguish them from every other class of animal, but even if something coming from a pony lacks one of those traits, if it came from a pony, it would necessarily be a pony. Same for changelings, I would say: they share physical characteristics with Alicorns, so whether they came from, or are a sister-species to, Alicorns, we'd still have to classify them as such.

From the few sightings and mentions, we could correlate their personalities and compare with the respective type. The Bat is the more aggressive and the Flutter the more timid as Pony as well. Anyone who has access to the original refference to the Flutterpony could confirm their personality. While there is an interesting detail about them, that is bound to be of magical order, rather then purely pysical nature.

If we were going to write only what was physically possible, we'd be limited to a story of Earth ponies.

I get that this is a high magic setting, but there's got to be a point where magic stops and nature takes over. They might have gotten the bat wings or butterfly wings as a result of magic, but are you really going to say that pony reproduction is magical?

From one perspective, this would put the type on pare with the Changelings. there is a notion that they were the resulto of some such accident. The Goo-Pony in particular may have shape-shifting capabilities. I imagine the Latex Pony too rigid to sustain shape shifting.

I posit that notion as well, but I don't see either the goo or latex pony being able to propagate or sustain a population. That would make them misfits by technicality, not distinct classifications. That doesn't mean they don't or won't exist, just that they're not quite on-par with Changelings as a species.

Canonically speaking, there is but the one exception to the rule, the pink mare we all ove, or love to hate for her numerous antics.

I would argue that her abilities are god (writer) given. They're exceptional skills for an earth pony to have, and they don't come with any of the strings associated with said skills. Truly, Pinkie is an anomaly worthy of extended study.

For a reflection; Pinkie Pie seems to act upon this manner as well. Why else is she constantly making new friends, and Hell-Bent on keeping everyone and everything Happy? Friendship is Magic, even the Fausticrn hersef said it.

I don't think she feeds off the positive emotion; at least, not in the same way Changelings do. Pinkie seems dependent on happiness to function properly, which might qualify as a mental illness and not a super-power.

Would be convenient to see every type has roughtly the same average output. Just that the Changeling is splitting the output between flight and Arcane use, which would make it less effective on an overall. One may speculate that they can specialize and thus gain a greater efficiency on one of the two sides?

That would make sense. Both magic and flight are magic-powered; except chitin is lighter than bone, so maybe it takes less energy for changelings to fly when compared to pegasi.

It might be more in-keeping with the hive-mind idea to give them magic via the same method. It's hard to put into words, but what if the drones were like autonomous fingers on Chrysalis' (or whatever's) hand. They can do whatever they want, within certain limits, but they get their magical abilities from the matriarch of the hive. Sever that connection, and they're stuck with whatever magic they had left.

Inanimate objects can harbor no emotions, so they can't be duplicated on that level. There may be an excuse by a spell that permit it, in the manner Twilight could copuy one form onto other Ponies herself included.
The Dragon may be considered as a creatures who has no magic of her own, but she obviously do harbour emotions which could work on that entiry. While I would see a Cchangeling haesitant on going close to a Dragon on both the emotional taste, and the feriousity of said Dragon. While there are samples of less aggressive and more intelectual dragons even aside from Spike. (Princess Ember)

I think dragon love should give changelings gas.

Jokes aside, I think changelings don't strictly absorb love. Rather, they metabolize it. Think like this: your body doesn't grow when you stick eggplants on it. You have to digest it before it becomes useful. If that were true of changelings' ability to eat love, that would mean they could absorb love from anything that can emit it.

Kind of sibblings.Very closely related, without being identical.

It may be more accurate to say that vamponies are a daughter species, but I'm still undecided about whether they should be living or undead. Maybe a Corpse Curse?

5202130

Batponies and thestrals are one in the same, do not Change that. Let us see what your idea for the vamponies is, I'm liking the sound of them as a group we may have to fight sometime along the story line.

You ask, and I deliver.

Genus Equus Avium Vespertilio Haemophilia - "Vampony"
An offshoot of Equus Avium Vespertilio, which is in turn an offshoot of Equus Avium. They share all traits with Equus Avium Vespertilio, but with the following exceptions: instead of being cathemeral like the Bat-pony, or diurnal like most of the other species in Genus Equus, the Vampony is strictly cathemeral - or, colloquially, nocturnal. They become stronger and faster, and acquire a more disheveled, pale, corpse-like appearance. Their dietary habits, as well as their teeth, undergo a drastic shift. Teeth become longer, pointed, and in some cases, hollow. They develop a craving for red comsumables, like apples, but they're famous for eating blood.

Their sensitivity to light sources and sound is amplified - where a bat-pony might be confused by bright light and loud noises, a Vampony might become incapacitated. Additionally, they develop a psychosomatic weakness to the following items: garlic, silver, sunlight, 'holy' imagery, mirrors, running water, and salt. Vamponies seem unable to enter houses or other spaces without first asking for permission - not necessarily from the owner(s), but from anypony.

It's your standard stock of vampire powers and weaknesses. There were a few things I don't think I put in here - I was unsure about whether to make them actual corpses, or just corpse-like. Any kind of undead pony would be immune to bleeding, poison, and wouldn't be able to heal naturally (all as a failing of the cardiovascular system). Additionally, inhaled poisons (or potions) would also fail for the same reason. They'd be able to hold their breath indefinitely, but I don't know whether they should breathe or not. I'd say yes, as breath across the vocal chords is what produces speech, and if they couldn't breathe, they couldn't speak.

Their nerves would still be functional though, so they can still feel pain. It would lessen over time to the point of "white noise" for the brain. The pain could be revived to its full strength, if they suffered mental trauma or experienced shock.

They would gain unparalleled stamina, since their muscles would never require oxygen to function and they would never get winded. As a result of that, they'd be able to push their muscles harder and faster, giving the illusion of increased strength (when, in reality, it's just a removed handicap).

Going back to the no-pulse thing though: wounds wouldn't clot, but this also means that torn body parts wouldn't heal. Like wings. Undead Vamponies wouldn't be able to fly quite as well with torn wings - they'd be limited to short, upward bursts or long, hovering glides (similar to Raziel from the "Legacy of Kain" series).

I was also considering giving them quasi-magical powers. Nothing that can directly interact with the physical world - no fireballs or telekinesis, usually - but illusions are fine. Minor invisibility at night; the ability to coerce, enrage, or terrify ponies by making eye contact with them; etcetera.

I'm still not sure whether vamponies should be strictly avian, or whether I should include earth, seapony, and unicorn variants with different abilities. Then again, there might already exist undead variants for those. Earth ponies would be revenants, unicorns liches, and seaponies... I'unno.

5209565

Barracus as a Zebrican Black Gun Wizard. An I will tell him "Yo Zigga".

This made my morning.

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo-stick. So much to catch up on. Damn Bloons Tower Defense 5...

Ohwaitasecond, what about Zebras? They're ponies too - Zecora even has a cutie mark.

5213953 You too are addicted to bowser games? I sometime can't stop playing Monsters Den.

5214007
Oh yeah. I once lost a whole week to Arkandian Crusade. There's just something about them...I can't put my finger on it.

5213953
Vary nice man, I like where this is going.

I was also considering giving them quasi-magical powers. Nothing that can directly interact with the physical world - no fireballs or telekinesis, usually - but illusions are fine. Minor invisibility at night; the ability to coerce, enrage, or terrify ponies by making eye contact with them; etcetera.

Don't forget about them being unsee able in mirrors.

I'm still not sure whether vamponies should be strictly avian, or whether I should include earth, seapony, and unicorn variants with different abilities.

Vamponies should not strictly avian, having more then one type may be interesting.

S.W.B.

5214026 Xeno defence, Swords and Sandals: Crusader, Electric Man... what can I say?

5213953

I'm dubious to accept this, as where else have we seen winged, magical ponies? Alicorns are the only ones that I know of. It sounds like we're trying to draw arbitrary lines to separate changelings from Alicorns, even when they're anatomically identical. Moreover, it's important to know the drones' parentage before you classify them: to my understanding, this would make Chrysalis the literal mother of all changelings. If she was, at one point, an Alicorn, then that would make every drone an Alicorn, too. However, because they don't exhibit the same strengths as alicorns, they would be degenerate.

How we clasify thye types that has never been fully compared would depend on what you compare in your clasification. Are you comparing the body structure, the means of chaneling the magic or heritage? I was using the Elements as a means of clasification, not saying that it is the only one or even the best. Just because the Alicorn is the strongerst among the Ponies, why is that making it a comparison with the Changelings?
I think it was said that they were original y Ponies, so I guess we can go with that. How does Zebra, Donkey, Mule and Cow compare in this? They look similiar in built. Just that we had too few examples to go by. What little we have doesn't really point in any direction. They only placed one on the set and used them in the plot. Nothing stating who or what they are.

This isn't how taxonomy works. Everything that exists is a modified version of whatever its precursors were; in effect, you can't outgrow your heritage. All ponies would necessarily share a common ancestry, but more importantly, everything proceeding from there would be ponies. Ponies have defined traits that distinguish them from every other class of animal, but even if something coming from a pony lacks one of those traits, if it came from a pony, it would necessarily be a pony. Same for changelings, I would say: they share physical characteristics with Alicorns, so whether they came from, or are a sister-species to, Alicorns, we'd still have to classify them as such.

If you compare the Changelings with Ants, you wopuld see how this modification works. All the ants, short of the Princes are female, while only the Queen is fertail. The clasese or types of Ponies has never been stated to come with genes or heritage, while there are cases that at least strongly suggest that it is highly likely to differ from the parents. Just look at the Cake twins and the Princess of the Crystal Empire. The twins are anything but Earth Ponies, and the princess is an Alicorn. If it was geneology, there would never be an Alicorn birth.

If we were going to write only what was physically possible, we'd be limited to a story of Earth ponies.

You can find these in the old myths commonly refered to as preFiM MLP.
Some aspects are clearly Magic, while others are clearly physics. The rest would be a mix of the two.

I posit that notion as well, but I don't see either the goo or latex pony being able to propagate or sustain a population. That would make them misfits by technicality, not distinct classifications. That doesn't mean they don't or won't exist, just that they're not quite on-par with Changelings as a species.

If they can sustain a population and flurish would clearly depend on the magic at large. If a Pegasus can fly due to magic and the Unicorn casts spells on the same note, what is preventing these types of Ponies from maintaining their numbers?
Of course, the Goo and Latex Ponies are not Changelings. The Changeling require her magic to change into the next Pony on the street, while the others change the shape of their body by sheer will alone. There may be relevance to a comparison to the Bat Pony and the Vampire Pony(Thestreal) here. Just because two classes appears to be the same on one or more aspects, doesn't make them part of the compared classification.

I would argue that her abilities are god (writer) given. They're exceptional skills for an earth pony to have, and they don't come with any of the strings associated with said skills. Truly, Pinkie is an anomaly worthy of extended study.

Some of the things she does would have been mundane if she had been a Unicorn or Pegasus, or an Alicorn. Just that she does things that defy even an Alicorn's capabilities. Doing so even in a setting that doesn't normally allow for these things.

I don't think she feeds off the positive emotion; at least, not in the same way Changelings do. Pinkie seems dependent on happiness to function properly, which might qualify as a mental illness and not a super-power

Pinkie Pie can't sustain herself without the happiness, more than a Changeling can without the Love. Without any canonical explanation, we are stuck with speculations on this point. Maybe you could see it as Pinkie Pie running her engines on NITRO, for a comparison with regular cars you see on the street? There is a possibility to compare it with a kind of nutrient. From how Pinkie Pie changed from Pinkamena in Grey, to Pinkie Pie in Pink, it could be the change in a similiar manner to some Addictions. An addiction change both the character, and the physical body of the Person it is introduced to.
How does one explain a Pony like Pinkie Pie? Too many characteristics defy what is commonly known about the Ponies. She can do things other Ponies can't. Is it possible to be addicted to the Magic of Friendship in Equestria?

That would make sense. Both magic and flight are magic-powered; except chitin is lighter than bone, so maybe it takes less energy for changelings to fly when compared to pegasi.

If a chitin exoskeleton is lighter than a regular internal skeleton made out of bone, the Cchangeling would gain an advantage here.

It might be more in-keeping with the hive-mind idea to give them magic via the same method. It's hard to put into words, but what if the drones were like autonomous fingers on Chrysalis' (or whatever's) hand. They can do whatever they want, within certain limits, but they get their magical abilities from the matriarch of the hive. Sever that connection, and they're stuck with whatever magic they had left.

Are you suggesting that they merely are conduits of magic used byt the Queen known as Chrysalis?
Could a Queen kill a drone by cutting the connection?
What would become of a Changeling who has no Hive? Could she even survive on her own?

I think changelings don't strictly absorb love. Rather, they metabolize it. Think like this: your body doesn't grow when you stick eggplants on it. You have to digest it before it becomes useful. If that were true of changelings' ability to eat love, that would mean they could absorb love from anything that can emit it.

Absorbing the Love is merely the first stage. She is then storing it in the body in some way or the other before it is metabolized. Maybe it could be compared with breathing?
On this topic, how would the Changeling absorb Love in the first place? the act of making Love, the love directed towards he, or would she drink it from the victim, voluntary or not?

It may be more accurate to say that vamponies are a daughter species, but I'm still undecided about whether they should be living or undead. Maybe a Corpse Curse?

There are already Vampire Bats, and these are alive. While the Thestral may be the undead variety of the same class of Ponies? This would come with both advantages and drawbacks.

It's your standard stock of vampire powers and weaknesses.

Basically Count Dracula as a Pony?
The class is only unified by what it is now, and this should have little to nothing to do with who or what they were before. Do they recall who they were before?
5213975 If only Ponies has a mark, then Zecora clearly is a Pony. Even if she has the stripes and all the trappings of a very alien culture.
5214095

Don't forget about them being unsee able in mirrors.

Typical for Vampires, not sure if it is limited to them?

Vamponies should not strictly avian, having more then one type may be interesting.

I like the idea that they have the bat wings, like you see on the vampire.
In classical terms, any Pony could become a Vampire, and then take on all the characteristics of the Vampire. IE, become Vampire Ponies.

5214430
Right

S.W.B.

How we clasify thye types that has never been fully compared would depend on what you compare in your clasification. Are you comparing the body structure, the means of chaneling the magic or heritage?

I wasn't using magic; I was using both heritage and body structure. Like I said, everything that exists is a modified version of whatever came before it.

I was using the Elements as a means of clasification, not saying that it is the only one or even the best. Just because the Alicorn is the strongerst among the Ponies, why is that making it a comparison with the Changelings?

They're anatomically similar. We know that Alicorns existed before Changelings did, and that Changelings look comparatively more similar to Alicorns than any other pony race. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to assume that Changelings are somehow derived from Alicorns, either through magic or some kind of wonky evolution.

I'm not sure what your gripe is.

I think it was said that they were original y Ponies, so I guess we can go with that. How does Zebra, Donkey, Mule and Cow compare in this? They look similiar in built.

Zebras might be a specific breed of Earth pony adapted to live in warmer, drier climates.

Really, that's all it takes to link one species to another when you're dealing with fictional taxonomy. If you can explain how (or why, in the case of magic) ponies became donkeys/mules/cows, then that's fair. Nobody can disprove it, and if nobody can propose anything better, then it's pretty much set.

Just that we had too few examples to go by. What little we have doesn't really point in any direction. They only placed one on the set and used them in the plot. Nothing stating who or what they are.

It's fine. I don't expect Hasbro to take fifteen minutes out of a twenty-minute slot to explain the origins of the changelings - though now that I've said that, I'm sure they will next season.

Really, I'm probably the agitator in this situation. You don't need to explain yourself, unless you want to. I'm applying science to fiction, when it really isn't necessary.

If you compare the Changelings with Ants, you wopuld see how this modification works. All the ants, short of the Princes are female, while only the Queen is fertail.

I don't see how that is an argument against Changeling descent from Alicorns. What you're proposing is that a species of non-pony developed pony-like characteristics over time, or were "magicked" to have them, which makes no sense either way. If a non-pony were introduced into an environment where pony-like characteristics were favored, there's no guarantee they'd have survived, and if they had, there's no saying what they would have looked like afterward. Even if I give you these things, that doesn't sound at all like an interesting origin for the changeling species.

If they were "magicked" to look like ponies, by whom and for what purpose? The only person that might benefit from making a race of parasites is Discord, because it's funny (I guess).

The clasese or types of Ponies has never been stated to come with genes or heritage, while there are cases that at least strongly suggest that it is highly likely to differ from the parents.

They've never been stated to have genes because the show wasn't targeting people with an interest in biology. Children - and most teenagers, frankly - don't have an adequate comprehension of the topic to know the difference between a base pair, a gene, a gamete, a molecule, and a genome. But ignorance isn't an argument: otherwise, gravity wouldn't exist until you understood it, and babies would come from the stork.

If you came from something, and if that something came from a string of other somethings, then you have a heritage. Think of the genome like a locket that gets passed from parent to child; you've got a little bit of everyone that came before you inside of you, as gross as that might sound. Whether you want it or not, you've got it, and you can't get rid of it for as long as you live.

If you knew how genetics or reproduction worked, you wouldn't be surprised that a parent might have children with drastically different appearances. [url=http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.htmHere is an article from an educational journal that covers the basics of reproduction. I checked the article: it's PG13, but it could be a lot worse. It's the internet.

Just look at the Cake twins and the Princess of the Crystal Empire. The twins are anything but Earth Ponies, and the princess is an Alicorn. If it was geneology, there would never be an Alicorn birth.

Clearly, all three of the common pony species are capable of interbreeding. If you watched the episode, Mr. Cake explained the discrepancy:

It's not too far off base, either. Even if you don't assume that these three races have been interbreeding for generations, there are genes associated with both unicorns and pegasi in both of the Cake's ancestries. I imagine it works in a similar fashion to Mendel's green and yellow peas: E, U, and P are all genes tied to a pony's race. All that's left is to decide which genes are dominant, and which are recessive. That's the tricky part, as dominant genes always get picked over the recessive genes - like how someone with two copies of the brown-eyed gene will always have brown-eyed children, regardless of the color of their partner's eyes.

I don't have an explanation for the alicorn baby, except to assume that when you become an alicorn, both of the copies of your E/U/P genes are overwritten with A. This means that Cadence's grand-kids could still be Alicorns, or they might be any of the other races. If my headcanon is correct, and the Unicorn gene is recessive, that means Flurry definitely has A/U genes, so she's fifty-percent more likely to have a unicorn, statistically.

You can find these in the old myths commonly refered to as preFiM MLP.
Some aspects are clearly Magic, while others are clearly physics. The rest would be a mix of the two.

Em, sure. I guess when you get down to brass tacks, biology is just chemistry, and chemistry is just physics.

Are you suggesting that they merely are conduits of magic used byt the Queen known as Chrysalis?
Could a Queen kill a drone by cutting the connection?
What would become of a Changeling who has no Hive? Could she even survive on her own?

No. They're still autonomous. They can think and act on their own. I'm just suggesting that their magic, since they can't produce it themselves, is given to them by Chrysalis. How she gets the magic to distribute is still up in the air.

I'm going to say no. They're largely dependent on the queen for magic, but if my headcanon is correct, it's entirely possible for a rogue changeling to be self-sufficient.

Same for the third question.

If they can sustain a population and flurish would clearly depend on the magic at large. If a Pegasus can fly due to magic and the Unicorn casts spells on the same note, what is preventing these types of Ponies from maintaining their numbers?

Reproduction through descent, not making more with magic/science. Reproduction is part of what defines a population.

Goo ponies might be able to reproduce asexually by splitting, like some single-celled organisms. Not sure about latex ponies. Again, in case I wasn't clear enough the first time, not being classified as a species wouldn't mean they didn't exist.

Of course, the Goo and Latex Ponies are not Changelings. The Changeling require her magic to change into the next Pony on the street, while the others change the shape of their body by sheer will alone. There may be relevance to a comparison to the Bat Pony and the Vampire Pony(Thestreal) here. Just because two classes appears to be the same on one or more aspects, doesn't make them part of the compared classification.

I don't see the point you were trying to make here. I wasn't arguing that Goo and Latex ponies were anything like Changelings: I was saying that Changelings reproduce, and to my knowledge, Goo and Latex ponies do not.

Your second point is irrelevant, as Bat ponies and Thestrals already have a defined relationship: Thestrals came from Bat ponies. They're similar, and they are part of the "compared classification", whatever that is.

Some of the things she does would have been mundane if she had been a Unicorn or Pegasus, or an Alicorn. Just that she does things that defy even an Alicorn's capabilities. Doing so even in a setting that doesn't normally allow for these things.

The fact remains that she is an earth pony. What would or could have been mundane is now extraordinary, merely because she's an earth pony.

That she can do what Alicorns cannot is of equal importance to my research as what she can do without magic or wings.

Pinkie Pie can't sustain herself without the happiness, more than a Changeling can without the Love. Without any canonical explanation, we are stuck with speculations on this point. Maybe you could see it as Pinkie Pie running her engines on NITRO, for a comparison with regular cars you see on the street? There is a possibility to compare it with a kind of nutrient. From how Pinkie Pie changed from Pinkamena in Grey, to Pinkie Pie in Pink, it could be the change in a similiar manner to some Addictions. An addiction change both the character, and the physical body of the Person it is introduced to.

Technically, yes, we cannot strictly define things without a canonical explanation. However, that doesn't prevent you from postulating that she's a pseudo-changelings, and that doesn't prevent me from postulating that she has a mental disorder. At this point, it really boils down to who can explain their position better, if you really wanted to tango.

Or, you know, you could just explain half of my position for me. I wouldn't say that Pinkie becomes physically ill when she's withdrawn from happiness: she hasn't been shown to retain her extraordinary abilities while in her depressed state, but that's only tangential at this point. To pull from my meager understanding of brain chemistry, dopamine roughly translates to "happy". Too much dopamine can lead to depression, but if her brain were to be chemically "overclocked" - similar to what might happen if you were to overclock your CPU - she'd be able to process the dopamine faster. There's also the matter of addiction, which can happen with dopamine as readily as any other chemical compound. If you combine a high tolerance for dopamine with the dependence on happiness that might come from a dopamine addiction, and the "overclocked" brain, you have a Pinkie that becomes clinically depressed the second her dopamine levels drop.

It's all about the science.

How does one explain a Pony like Pinkie Pie? Too many characteristics defy what is commonly known about the Ponies. She can do things other Ponies can't. Is it possible to be addicted to the Magic of Friendship in Equestria?

You explain Pinkie like you explain any outlier. Not according to shared traits, but by how she's different.

You'd have to explain what the "Magic of Friendship" is before you can work with it in any scientific way. But, that's not the purpose of this thread.

If a chitin exoskeleton is lighter than a regular internal skeleton made out of bone, the Cchangeling would gain an advantage here.

Eeyup.

Absorbing the Love is merely the first stage. She is then storing it in the body in some way or the other before it is metabolized. Maybe it could be compared with breathing?
On this topic, how would the Changeling absorb Love in the first place? the act of making Love, the love directed towards he, or would she drink it from the victim, voluntary or not?

Like the digestive system stores food in the stomach while it gets broken down.

Breathing works by bringing oxygen in, and expelling carbon dioxide. At least, that's how it is in animals. If you're going to say that eating love is like breathing, then what is the changeling expelling?

I'd say love absorption by osmosis. If there's love around, they can lap it up, but it's easier and more efficient if the love is directed at them.

There are already Vampire Bats, and these are alive. While the Thestral may be the undead variety of the same class of Ponies? This would come with both advantages and drawbacks.

Naturally. I explained as much.

Basically Count Dracula as a Pony?
The class is only unified by what it is now, and this should have little to nothing to do with who or what they were before. Do they recall who they were before?

If Therstals (Thestrals? I can't keep it straight.) are going to be considered undead, then I'm probably going to move the entry into a bestiary. Metamorphosis doesn't define a new species, and magical transformations without reproductive populations that can respond and adapt don't, either. In that case, then perhaps Therstals could be a classification of pony undead, in the same vein as Earth Pony "Revenants" and Unicorn "Liches".

Yeah, it's basically Count Dracula as a pony, except that all of his weaknesses are psychosomatic. Silver and sunlight don't actually hurt him, but because he thinks they do, then they will.

Again, up in the air. It depends on what S.W.B. will let me do with Thestrals, and whether he'll allow a class of pony undead. If yes, then they don't remember anything before when they woke up. Memories could be awoken in them if they touch, see, smell, hear, or taste something very important to them - seeing their old family, hearing an old lullaby, eating Mom's spaghetti, etcetera.

Don't forget about them being unsee able in mirrors.

Typical for Vampires, not sure if it is limited to them?

I already had that covered in my original post, where I discussed Thestrals as undead creatures.

Vamponies should not strictly avian, having more then one type may be interesting.

I like the idea that they have the bat wings, like you see on the vampire.
In classical terms, any Pony could become a Vampire, and then take on all the characteristics of the Vampire. IE, become Vampire Ponies.

To address S.W.B. first - Vamponies are probably going to be strictly avian, but other kinds of ponies could have other kinds of undead forms. I've already mentioned Revenants as a possible Earth pony form, and Liches as a possible Unicorn form. Ideas for Seaponies are appreciated. From the comment:

Then again, there might already exist undead variants for those. Earth ponies would be revenants, unicorns liches, and seaponies... I'unno.

Now for Ponyess - I agree, Vamponies wouldn't be the same if they didn't have the bat wings. But a weathered and ragged set of feather wings, on a dilapidated, corpse-like body, would be equally cool.

If we're going to make Vamponyism a disease, then you'd be right. Of course, we'd have to separate the turned Vamponies from the raised Vamponies, or perhaps Thestrals? The easiest way to do this would be to make everyone that wasn't avian immune to Vamponyism, but that also makes the least amount of sense.

Should I make two categories, one for reanimated "vamponies", and one for turned "vamponies"?

O'k so I just fond this thanks to abyss.(not a member hear)

You think we can use that any one?

S.W.B.

5217369 Hm... I'm already thinking of making pegasi more perceptive than most other ponies, especially with regards to touch, sight, and smell. The spot between the shoulder blades could be a soft, ticklish spot on all ponies.

Important!

I've put up my work on the first book. You can now see it on GDocs using this link. If this doesn't work, you can copy and paste the following link into your browser: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PCbIVXUugzRzzbXH2aAnGx3k6fb4xJt42lmW6vv55kA/edit?usp=sharing

5225462
First off on the forward, this book was originally meant to be found in the old castle, meaning it was made before Celesta's school for gifted unicorns; as that's something I believe she made after the NMM event. But I like this, keep it up, just make another older like one for us to find there.

Second on the fetlock, please add in my idea for a kind of gecko skin on the inside of it, it would be helpful in holding smaller/odd ball thing's.

And besides the above, the rest seemed to be on the mark for what we want, we just need to work on the unicorns and add in the other pony types.

Oh and one last thought, how ya been me laddie, in good shape I hope.

S.W.B.

5228223
Ah, so we're rolling with archaic knowledge. In that case, I can pretty much throw everything out except a description of the pony breeds and their abilities. I'll keep the pony taxonomy book, just in case we decide to use it later, but I'm going to go ahead and write another one for ye olde booke. Instead of being based on heredity, this one ought to be largely based on physiology, as ancient pony couldn't have known which species gave rise to which subspecies.

But... did they have doctors back then? If not, might I suggest Dr. Species become something more along the lines of Prior Species? If my hunch is correct, these books would have been written in an age comparable to the Dark Ages, or perhaps during the Middle Ages leading up to the Renaissance. This was before the establishment of colleges as we know them today, and long before doctorates were around to be awarded to ponies. Just a suggestion...

Got that down, jot and tiddle. Hm...
Jot and tiddle, eh? Sounds like the name of a duo of authors, or a shop catering to such.

Cool beans. I'll throw them in as I can, while rewriting the taxonomy book and writing the one we find in the library.

I've been alright, thanks for asking. I've still got all my hair, and I can still muster a smile, so things could be a lot worse.

5229742
Good good, nice ta see some actual progress being made, hope we can be done by the middle to thee end of summer.

Jot and Tiddle? hmm, sounds like the names of two reporters we might meet.

Aye, the smiles will go on, no matter how long we may live for.

S.W.B.

Reviving a comment from a week ago; here we go.

5217177

If they were "magicked" to look like ponies, by whom and for what purpose? The only person that might benefit from making a race of parasites is Discord, because it's funny (I guess).

One word: Mendacity. Entire changeling race is a result of Discord having fun.

That’d be a bit silly of course, so I’ll use your theory of the changelings’ origin.

My headcanon is that Chrysalis was an Alicorn, and was dithering with spells similar to D&D's True Shapechange. It's another Icarus story, where ambition, curiosity, or pride stripped away reason, and she was punished - maybe by gods, maybe by ponies - for crossing some arbitrary line in the sand.

It doesn’t have to involve punishments by gods nor ponies for this to work—heck, gods (which I define to be entities even more powerful than alicorns, Discord, and other immortals in the show) don’t need to exist in Equus at all. Contrived story plot, set far before NMM:

Chrysalis, back then an alicorn by a different name, and daughter of Celestia, was unsatisfied at the lack of power she held in the world in which she lived. Where Celestia and Luna ruled the two celestial bodies and Equestria, she held no throne, becoming untrusting of her superiors. When she questioned Celestia on this issue, she replied that Chrysalis wasn’t ready to undertake the roles of a princess. Chrysalis misconstrued this as proof that Celestia didn’t see her as a fit ruler, fuelling her eventual fall into delusions and paranoia.

Fuelled by a perception of injustice, Chrysalis, unbeknownst to her mother, plotted to form an army to aid in her planned coup d’état of Equestria, as she could not overthrow two alicorns by sheer power alone—she needed numbers. Since Chrysalis expected neither the Solar nor Lunar Guard to be willing to kill their own masters, she chose to convert every one of them the night before the planned coup instead, turning them into loyal drones she could control whenever she saw fit.

However, weeks before this, she experimented with illegal spells (maybe dark magic, but from the lack of purple, maybe not) to give her numerous powers, like shapeshifting, and telekinesis to control her recently acquired drones. To acquire an even higher magical capacity than regular alicorns could achieve, Chrysalis applied a spell that would give herself the ability to absorb and convert positive emotions to pure magic. To emblazon (for lack of a better term) herself and her drones with a distinctive appearance that would strike the ponies with fear, a transformation spell was used to turn their bodies into what we now know as changelings today. After toiling and tinkering with these spells on herself, she finally packaged all the spell matrices into a single, large matrix: the irreversible changeling conversion spell.

When she applied the changeling conversion spell on the Guard, the night before the invasion, they successfully converted the ponies into changeling drones… with one caveat. The spell that gave her the ability to absorb and convert emotions backfired terribly—it caused the drones to require positive emotions to survive. Chrysalis panicked, but the entire Guard had already been irreversibly converted to changelings, and their absences would be suspicious the next day.

Celestia did not know of what happened to Chrysalis until the latter destroyed her city, and even then didn’t recognise her at first. Shocked at the horrors to which Chrysalis had resorted, Celestia desperately tried to negotiate with her. Chrysalis outright refused, in such a state of paranoia and distrust that no amount of parley could resolve the situation peacefully. Faced with the mysterious absence of the Elements of Harmony and the Solar and Lunar Guards the night before, Celestia and Luna were left with no other option than to fight.

A long and gruelling war that involved the entirety of Equestria followed, that in the end miraculously resulted in a Equestrian victory. Why was this so? Chrysalis was the only changeling who could lead the changeling army properly, as she was the only one who had control of all the changelings at once. However, this created a huge weakness for her and her army: she could not singlehoofedly face many points of attack at the same time. Many points of attack was precisely what Equestria did: it incurred heavy losses in Chrysalis’ army, forcing Chrysalis and her army to retreat, but this was not without a hefty cost; Equestria suffered even heavier casualties and deaths, the majority of towns were destroyed, and the survivors were scarred from their loved ones transforming into what they saw as insect-like monsters.

Needless to say, it took many, many years for Equestria to feel safe in her own land again.

As for Chrysalis and the remnants of her army, they went into hiding, and slowly recovered their numbers (via changeling conversion spell, of course) until they struck again but a decade later, although that is a story for another time.

It’s at this point where I realise I went a bit overboard. Hopefully you catch my drift.

Memories could be awoken in [thestrals] if they touch, see, smell, hear, or taste something very important to them - seeing their old family, hearing an old lullaby, eating Mom's spaghetti, etcetera.

I see a potential future arc here. The Gang gets chased by recently turned rabid thestrals (wouldn’t they be called vamponies?) amid a lush forest. In the brink of The Gang’s imminent deaths, a memory is sparked within the thestrals, giving them a shred of humanity (equinity?) that stops them from killing The Gang. The viability of this arc would depend on if Borne puts this in Gang canon, of course.

To address S.W.B. first - Vamponies are probably going to be strictly avian, but other kinds of ponies could have other kinds of undead forms. I've already mentioned Revenants as a possible Earth pony form, and Liches as a possible Unicorn form. Ideas for Seaponies are appreciated.

If Earth ponies → revenants and unicorns → liches, then seaponies → kelpies. When I looked up kelpies, I found that having kelpies in mythology actually has some nice parallels with vampires (Celtic mythology in brackets):
• they can disguise themselves with illusion magic (to satisfy the “shapeshifting” part of their legends),
• drinking ponies’ blood in a cannibalism-like manner (since they eat children), and
• in their usual form, they’re ugly and corpse-like but with illusion magic they can (alluring feminine bodies to attract humans to their doom)

5225462 Very nice so far.

A question: would changelings be a secretive species? If so, since we’re going with archaic knowledge, there wouldn’t be much knowledge about them, if at all.

Edit: I accidentally pressed Post Comment when I wasn’t finished writing my comment. Ended up finishing up my comment by making edits. Woops!

5233176

It doesn’t have to involve punishments by gods nor ponies for this to work—heck, gods (which I define to be entities even more powerful than alicorns, Discord, and other immortals in the show) don’t need to exist in Equus at all. Contrived story plot, set far before NMM:

Well, no, it doesn't. You proved as much yourself. The key points of the story I proposed remain largely unchanged: Chrysalis - through greed, ambition, pride, desperation, or some such - strove to rise beyond what she had, essentially by cheating. As a result, she was punished by something - gods, ponies, fate, whatever - for cheating to rise above her position. There's probably more I could say about it, but I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts and feelings into words right now. I just described it as an Icarus story, because they share a lot of the same themes.

I see a potential future arc here. The Gang gets chased by recently turned rabid thestrals (wouldn’t they be called vamponies?) amid a lush forest. In the brink of The Gang’s imminent deaths, a memory is sparked within the thestrals, giving them a shred of humanity (equinity?) that stops them from killing The Gang. The viability of this arc would depend on if Borne puts this in Gang canon, of course.

A memory...maybe the Gang finds a trinket? One of them stares up at the full moon, and remembers all the times his parents took him stargazing. I'unno.

If Earth ponies → revenants and unicorns → liches, then seaponies → kelpies. When I looked up kelpies, I found that having kelpies in mythology actually has some nice parallels with vampires (Celtic mythology in brackets):
• they can disguise themselves with illusion magic (to satisfy the “shapeshifting” part of their legends),
• drinking ponies’ blood in a cannibalism-like manner (since they eat children), and
• in their usual form, they’re ugly and corpse-like but with illusion magic they can (alluring feminine bodies to attract humans to their doom)

Sounds good to me. That last bullet sounds like Mediterranean mermaid myths.

5234825 I like your new username.

I just described it as an Icarus story, because they share a lot of the same themes.

Well, it’s your book after all—you’re the author. I simply wanted to elaborate on the theme you proposed, and it got quite lengthy.

Hmm… I might turn it into a story sometime. To push it into the backburner, with three other story ideas that I don’t have time to write.

A memory...maybe the Gang finds a trinket? One of them stares up at the full moon, and remembers all the times his parents took him stargazing. I'unno.

I’ll write a list of possible items that can reignite memories (as well as a trinket):
• photograph of a place, someone, symbol
• a member of the Gang, or clothes that one of the Gang is wearing, having a physical likeness to somepony/someone the thestral knows
• a weapon
• a member of the Gang having a likeness in personality to somepony/someone the thestral knows
• armour, e.g. NMM’s helmet
• a variety of plant or tree, e.g. poison joke

5234892
Thanks.

Well, it’s your book after all—you’re the author. I simply wanted to elaborate on the theme you proposed, and it got quite lengthy.
Hmm… I might turn it into a story sometime. To push it into the backburner, with three other story ideas that I don’t have time to write.

Technically, S.W.B. is in charge of writing The Gang. I'm just here because I like to be a sounding board.

I’ll write a list of possible items that can reignite memories (as well as a trinket):
• photograph of a place, someone, symbol
• a member of the Gang, or clothes that one of the Gang is wearing, having a physical likeness to somepony/someone the thestral knows
• a weapon
• a member of the Gang having a likeness in personality to somepony/someone the thestral knows
• armour, e.g. NMM’s helmet
• a variety of plant or tree, e.g. poison joke

So, objects of importance to that particular pony. If a pony didn't care about his family, then pictures of his family wouldn't do anything. Et cetera. It's like the main idea from Warm Bodies: you just have to remind them what it's like to be alive, and make them want that again.

Here is the link to the updated version of the first book. It's heavily commented, and it's probably the one the gang is going to find in the ruins. Honestly, I don't think it will look too different from the first one: "Pony-likes" would include anything Pony-like (Hippogriffs, Bat-ponies, undead ponies, etcetera), and the only other difference is that I'm foregoing the taxonomy bit in lieu of physical descriptions, descriptions of each breed's latent abilities, and a brief history of each breed. As-per the original instructions.
In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have tried to make pony taxonomy a thing. Also, if links don't work, copy and paste this into your address bar: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KGRVhlneuRNPdla41PKkONLNg1MH3q9VnkAra7mBDnI/edit?usp=sharing

If you're not able to comment, let me know, and I'll get a new link. The old one is suspiciously comment-less.

Question: should I use phonetic spelling and antiquated language?