This thread is ONLY for discussing House Whitegold, and is not to be un-pinned from the top of the forum.

Oh. I was thinking about something:
Is the House culturally influential, given their status as a metropolis?
In this world's terms: there are countries in this earth that wanted (or still wants, lol) to bomb the shit out of the US, but that doesn't mean those countries weren't marveled by the size, power and influence of cities like New York, LA or San Francisco...

Now imagine Whitegold's fashion trends, music trends...artists or something like that managed to trascend to the other houses...

Which brings me to other question: Is Whitegold more...progressist than the other houses? I mean, they are cool with most things unless they don't touch the elite and the bits...

Can you imagine a "60s revolution"esque phenomena starting in Manehattan? The youngsters born after the ugly parts of the war now start to protest against it, the hippie guys defecting to Everfree...civil rights influencing other houses via smuggling propaganda or books/culture/art...

So it's Reformation-Enlightment-60s revolution all at once! WTF?

Dunno, something that I found myself thinking from a week ago...

2028732
The cultural influence of House Whitegold is definitely as you consider it to be Lisboa. The reason being that Whitegold opens its doors to any pony as they express no ideology of any race being better than the other. Their class system is strictly wealth-based, might not be perfect but with the current circumstances it is the least oppressive. As such Whitegold music, performances, food, and artistic trend can spread beyond its wall as citizens are allowed to come and go.

Now this doesn't mean Manehattan is lax in its security. They do charge for entry and shipping goods likely has tariffs placed upon it. But it is due to the open-minded idea of the skills you bring rather than your race that would allow travelers to come into the city and leave. Thus, they spread what they love from Whitegold culture. Plus, traders and merchants are probably given leeway in dealing with certain sides... so long as Whitegold gets its cut of the profit.

In regard to a cultural renaissance such an event could occur. The war has been going on for fifteen years and I've always (head-canon incoming) seen that this time period in the universe that PoorYorick introduced the setting to us is mostly devoted toward small skirmishes rather than large engagements. A time of an uneasy peace if I might be as so bold to say. The borders have finally started to stabilize and no side as the obvious advantage.

Anyway moving on the Cult has become an issue internally so the Houses have likely devoted more resources toward rooting out them out. Whitegold would be the most likely candidate for such social reform as they exist as a meritocracy, so the value of what you can 'do' rather than what you 'are', takes more precedence as I stated earlier. However, I don't think any young ponies will run off to join the Everfree but the possibility of lets say a Bohemian movement could occur. The new generation is enraptured in exploring new means of artistic expression, putting on plays that are socially raunchy, or music that lacks what society considers refinement.

2028732>>2029454
I agree with you two. I've always thought of Whitegold as the place other houses always talk about defecting to. A peaceful(ish) place where nobody cares where you came from. The probably set the standreds of culture in this war torn universe. I really like this Bohemian movement idea though. Just imagine the new sort of fashions and iconography that could explode out of this stuffy and refined place. They're would be huge marches demonstrating the different opinions within Whitegold. My only question would be: How would Whitegold react to this. Would be like the 60's just ignoring and looking down on them, or something more sinister like the reaction to the recent Arab Spring. Gasing street protests, beating protesters and arresting resisters.

I always thought of House Whitegold as more like Renaissance Italy, in particular Venice or Medici Florence. The revival of high culture after the dark ages, among backstabbing merchants and nobles. You know, the environment that produced Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rodrigo Borgia, and Niccolo Machiavelli.

2031348
Stormwing would repress, Moon and Star would repress but not Whitegold.
Those ideals would pretty much just give the elite a profit opportunity and an unvoluntary aid to damp the convictions of the other houses. I think that if they are as cunning as they claim, they would prefer to have a protestor they could buy off than an indoctrinated supremacist (MS) a brainwashed cultist (CoL) a military fascist (SW) a commie (EB) or a naturist anarquist (EF) they can't negotiate with...

2031348

Now I always thought the ponies that actually have it decent in Whitegold are very far and few. Given the presence of the Undercity and The Wall, I imagine that at least 75% of Whitegolds population lives in crippling poverty, 20% is split between a fairly small military force and a barely satisfied middle class, with about 5%(probably less) being in the upper class. I imagine the average pony defecting to Whitegold would find themselves outside the Wall living in a tent, doing back-breaking labor and barely making enough to afford your next meal, so actually getting in to the magical city of Manehatten is a pipe dream, much less being able to work your way up the social latter.

I imagine the riots and protesting that occur in Whitegold wouldn't be the results of differentiating ideals, but rather the lower class complaining about the small, but extremely wealthy upper class. The same upper class ponies that have the entire WG army and several mercenary groups in the center of there hooves, which they could easily sick on any rioters or protesters. Even if you have a skill, I doubt you could expect a big paycheck, so to speak. The upper class of Whitegold know how bad it is out in Equestria, they know you came to Manehatten because you had nowhere else to go and, despite the extremely poor living conditions for anyone other then the rich, Whitegold is safe and free of prejudice, and the rich of WG will exploit that for all it's worth, heavy taxes and all.

tl;dr: Any pony that tried to defect to Whitegold, expecting to make it big or at least be somewhat well off, would be in for a big disappointment unless they were already very wealthy.

(Oh, hay look, I'm back! I missed you guy's!)

2032300

I always thought of House Whitegold as more like Renaissance Italy, in particular Venice or Medici Florence. The revival of high culture after the dark ages, among backstabbing merchants and nobles.

This is pretty much how I think most people see them as being. However, they still have a nobility that continues to hold power within the government as the Equestrian Nobility did flee to Manehattan after Twilight's rise to power.

.
2031348

agree with you two. I've always thought of Whitegold as the place other houses always talk about defecting to. A peaceful(ish) place where nobody cares where you came from.

Well it does state in the lore that Ponies-of-Fortune are desertors, traitors, former cultist, idealist, and mercs from all parts of Equestria and beyond. So ponies from various backgrounds is likely. In addition, many fleeing to Manehattan likely view the city walls as a curtain from the horrors the outside world is facing.

Uhh, people. I think you're getting the wrong impression about Manehattan and Whitegold. Unless you are able to pay the outrageous entrance fee to cross the wall into the inner city, you'll end up in the Undercity. And it's a slum. Sure, it's a intriguing place of great opportunities, but it's still a poverty-stricken, disease ridden, cult and bandit infested asshole of Equestria. You don't go to the Undercity because it is so much better than serving other houses. You go there because you have nowhere else to go. Seriously, the Undercity is probably the most crapsack part of this whole setting, apart maybe from M&S Slave Domes.

You're more likely to die in the Undercity by being stabbed by a starving orphan who just happened to see you eating something, than die in actual battle. Ok, maybe i'm overexaggerating a bit, but my point is - it's like the Everfree Forest - a death jungle, where your each step can be your last.

Also, the Wall doesn't protect the Undercity, it separates it from the Inner City. The Undercity is unprotected and can be easily raided and bombarded (in fact the Earthborn are known to occasionally shell the Undercity from afar).

2034258

Well there goes our final bastion of sanity...

2034258
Kind of reminds me of Freeside from Fallout New Vegas. *shivers*

2034571
Oh don't worry! I'm sure... Err... At least Fancy Pant's is still cool!

Well, of course.
In any country were the population is only struggling for survival there rarely are any new ideas.
But, say, the upper middle classes and the...progressist elite...their lives figured out, sorta. they can focus their priorities to think about the world, philosophy and arts...
After all, who made the Renaissance possible in this world? certainly not the peasantry. ..(if I recall correctly)

2034875
Yeah, it was the priest and merchant classes, though I wouldn't expect democracy to come up with Whitegold's elite given their separation from the unwashed masses. With the possible exception of Fancy Pants.

The most I think one would expect from the Undercity would be the occasional Molotov cocktail splashing against the wall. Or the Equine Mafia.

2035033

The most I think one would expect from the Undercity would be the occasional Molotov cocktail splashing against the wall. Or the Equine Mafia.

Aww, the Equine Mafia... one of the best suggestions made in this group for another possible faction within EqDiv.

2035033
With royalty and elite support (well, not full, but by some members via shadowy deals). Yes, they believed those ideas were fascinating and maybe worth spreading, but didn't anticipate those would go back and bite them in the ass.

No, of course. Democracy would be too OOC for Whitegold. It's like conspiracy theorists portray the so called "System" today. All gamed, all serving a very select few, democracy a facade, pulling the strings of thouse in AND those out.

They need to keep those out, out, but somehow, working too.

There's something that doesn't make sense to me (and I hope I'm not overanalizing, but hell, since I have some sociology stuff I never used, here it goes:)

Was the Undercity thought as a slum "chain of misery"? The very notion implies that, as a brazilian favela or a indian slum, those dwelling in those places are either working from the lowest of the low jobs available (still doing something for a living, but not enough to pay the fee to the City itself), still expecting to have an "easier" life. After all, it is implied, given the size of that section that a lot of folk prefer that than being killed, brainwashed, "hunted", or plain recruited by any other house. (READ: Not that it's better, but because they prefer it.)

Now, if it is THAT bad, why the hell going there? At least in Earthborn unless they are unicorns they could get food. Or join the cult and get rid of your sadness via...whatever mind raping method they use, or M&S and pretend to be a faithful Celly/Luna tard (unicorns only) or go to Stormwing and let your anger go one battle at a time. Or Everfree and maybe you'll get to learn to live with the poverty you came with...those are options for those in the Undercity...if they prefer the slum before those options...in an illusory hope that maybe one day they'll save enough to pay the fee or plain "suicidal laziness"...well, doesn't that clashes with "The Undercity is Eq. shithole" statement?

If the UC it's only a place that happens to be around a big city it can't enter or work in any way and you go just to dumbly suffer (with no fighting back whatsoever)...meh. I don't think it's too useful, storywise.

Unless, those who flee there are unaware of the true situation in the undercity...

2035298
First, you have to realize that i'm describing the state of the Undercity as it is NOW, i.e. 15-20 years after the war broke out. Of course it was (slightly) better before. The whole situation started when The Society of Canterlot Nobles and Equestrian Trade Union escaped the racial tensions in Canterlot and set up in Manehattan. They separated themselves from the common pony and then it went all downhill from there.

Besides, it's not like a pony travelling to the Undercity would necessarily know whether it's worse than, for example, living under the iron hoof of Stormwing.

Fun thing is, with recent substantial increase in CoL's activity, the poor ponies of the Undercity might have it better than before, seeing how now even the upper class is worried about the Cult just taking over th city. At least the ponies down there can sleep a little better knowing that the Undercity is constantly being policed by the Militia, which besides hunting down the Cult, also started to actively fight all those various criminal gangs plaguing the Undercity. Thank you Fancy Pants.

2036645
...o....k.
I kinda get it. The slums were there, more or less good, probably even before Cellys departure, the snooby nobles separated from it with the wall when they got there and things got worse with the UC population increasing.

yep. makes sense. no sarcasm, it really does. Thanks Fancy Pants.

oooooh Suddenly I remembered something else I wanted to discuss.

So the House has the biggest city and "enough wealth to keep the masses happy" and themselves at the top. Manehattan was already famous for it's size and influence, right? So the Noble and wealthy kind came after thins got ugly and injected even more capital to it. They eventually made their own...economic paradise....wait.

How? If all houses hate eachother to death...who the hay you have left to trade with? Manehattan is...surrounded (ocean one side, the other houses in the other...) isn't that like...the worst that can happen? They can't eat gold and gems after all.

Unless...oh dear. They trade with the other houses knowingly or unknowingly for them. The airship sometimes means trade, right? Not only the basics, but also other illegal stuff their respective houses or tribes frown upon, no? (Not even considering the unused potential the ocean has...)

Considering that, how would affect ALL of Equestria if Manhatten gets subdued and conquered (or destroyed/infected)? Wouldn't that like screw the economy for good and make things worse?

After all, I can't picture Stormwing acting as administrators, or M&S...(they could be even MORE snobby with not only class but also racial segregation), even less Everfree who wants it leveled or the cult. (God helps Eq if Manehattan gets overrun by the cult, the most populated city with 100% converted/undead rate...it's a ponified Resident Evil... )

Earthborn....? Uh...

2037094
Well, I've had a discussion before about this with some of the other guys. Most of my own ideas got shafted, but here's a short summary of what we got of Whitegold's economy system -

- The Whitegold capital got its initial sum of money from being built on a gem mine - Something that can get a large sum of cash very quickly, and promises a lot of return from working on it.

- With the exception of Moon and Star, all of the other houses are self sufficient. Stormwing enlisted some ponies to grow food on the ground, and have their Nhorse allies. Everfree tribes live off of the fruit of the land. Earthborn are the most capable of growing their own food. The Cult live off of the influence of the Astral plane, and most of them are ex-farmponies. Moon and Star require a lot of resources and gems to power their large structures - And we agreed that they couldn't keep up with the demand themselves.

- It is possible for the Whitegold lordships to hire dignitaries of other races to sell their "Wares" for them. This could help move money along to the other factions, and since Whitegold are one of lies and deception, it's a valid strategy that they could use.

- Since it's a metaphorical arms race of capital, Whitegold are very likely to try and cut corners wherever they can - Exploiting the lower classes to the best of their ability without seeming like tyrants.

I also discussed some stuff about politics, but that wasn't anyone's forté. Hope this can help.

2034258
"the Earthborn are known to occasionally shell the Undercity from afar"

2035033>>2035271
Aw you guys are too kind. I was really happy with how that little project of mine came out. I didn't think people would like it so much.
Maybe sometime long down the road after a better defined picture of House Whitegold and Equestria is made I'll return to the Manehattan Mob and make a revised version of it so it can fit into the setting more fully and accurately.

2035298
Adding to what Poor Yorick stated about why the Undercity exists how it is, I'd like to think that the Undercity would always find a bit of new residents via various outcasts. Imagine various army deserters, war refugees and the like. Also, keep in mind that each of the Houses in Equestria Divided have pretty orthodox ethical guidelines to their societies. Unicorns who don't agree with the treatment of Earth ponies and Pegasi in M&S, dehorned Unicorns struggling to find acceptance in House Earthborn, Pegasi who don't exactly fit into Stormwing's Military Industrial Complex, and Everfree ponies who have serious regrets about joining the Everfree, for whatever reason, may all decide that they can find a better life in House Whitegold. Whether or not they are aware of the poverty they will probably face in House Whitegold may not have too much of an effect on their choice to go there depending on how terrible they feel their lives are already in their respective houses.

2040329 That gif and the lines before it just make me bust a gut laughing. I mean seriously! Shell the Undercity because... well... buck it that's why!

This is how I imagine Whitegold.
Of course, more renaissance, less sci-fi.
by Lorddoomhammer

2045698
I can definitely agree, though I would suggest that the lower echelons outside the city look a lot like this -

Definitely packed full and closed in, no expense of space wasted.

Titans not included.

2045698>>2045734
Here are two links to some DA groups who have interesting designs for cities if guys are interested in seeing some possible designs for how exactly Manehattan is laid out:
1) Cartography-Guild
2) TerraCognita

2040329

Yeah I agree I mean the one thing that the undercites got going with it is that, no one gives a shit about who you are. Deserted Stormwing? Left the Cult? Murdered an official? Generally want to disappear and start over? Undercity's got ya covered. Its a shit hole full of murders, crooks, gangs, and starving poneis but nobody minds another outcast. I imagine that the undercity is clock full of street gangs and smugglers (with the Eqs Mob at the top) and that a pony MIGHT be able to elk out a living if they should align with on of these groups. Of course gang warfare is a constant threat of death and if you side with the wrong pony you could find yourself dead in a ditch by nightfall.

2040329 2037025 2035033 2050561
Oh; the greedy Oligarchs and prissy Aristocrats only have to worry about the occasional Molotov Cocktail... For now. Can you dig it? Think about it; strong Criminal Enterprises, street gangs, and a disaffected populace. Can you dig it!? Not only that, but they may outnumber Whitegolds militia all put together. Can you dig it!?!

Edit: I can see the undercity being primarily made up of Refugees; but like all you said there would be exiles from all the factions, escaped slaves, deserters, and of course Cultists in hiding. But there might also be some mobsters, drug runners, and arms dealers from outside Equestria trying to set up shop, and take advantage of Manehattans large and extensive criminal underworld. So; you'd have sights like Bab's and her crew getting in street fights with cultists after a deal with a representative of the Monkey Triad goes horribly wrong.

2050835

Oh yeah i dig ..... But I've been thinking a bit about the Undercity layout. Is it a complete shanty town with no real standing structures? Or getto existing in the remains of old Manehatten? Or mix of the two? Honestly when I read about it i'm reminded of of New York in the 1930-40's, just less skyscrapers and more magical horses.

2056849
Yeah, that's what I thought as well. Of course; it's MLP, so you'd have stuff like radios and subway trains moving alongside medieval weaponry and golems. When I think of Manehattan, I kind of think of the old silent movie, Metropolis:

Apart of the movies premise is that the wealthy are housed in skyscrapers far in the sky, while the poor live in massive slums where you never see the sun. I'm also imagine the Undercity as being similar to Manhattan in Soylent Green:

Both are noticeably overpopulated, and have terrible living conditions.

This Thread has been silent for a while now so I decided to dredge up something relevant from the yawning depths of space battles, courtesy of WireWolf.

The Wall:
The Wall is an enormous edifice standing some 20 meters high and fully ten meters thick, stretching around the entire perimeter of Manhatten proper, with support buildings protruding and looming directly behind it and watchtowers and guard stations positioned regularly along its length. The Wall is created out of artificially-magically grown crystal along with more standard stone construction material.
The top of the wall is crenelated like a medieval castle. House Whitegold troops and patrols are stationed along it, armed and ready to deal with any attempted incursion. All along the wall are sniper stations for the Houses special Sharpshooter Division, within the wall itself and atop it. These expose the Sharpshooters as little as possible while providing them with a good field of fire.

Towering halfway up the side of the wall, measuring ten meters high and fifteen meters wide, the gates are half again as long as what shows - the extra parts of the gate being concealed within the side of the wall. The gates are made of enchanted hardwood and riveted steel plates. Often the fronts are decorated with ostentatious fresco's to display the Houses power and wealth.(There are Five gates. Diamond, Emerald, Ruby, Sapphire and Opal. Each is Commanded by a Gate Commander.)

There are two sets of these gates, one behind the other, leaving only four meters of space between them, which is more than enough space for squads on foot.

Should heavy equipment or military wagons carriages need to leave they are either brought in via the vehicle delivery entrance or, for deeper missions, they can be dropped by House Whitegold Airships or Skiffs.

Airborne vehicles are brought in via the side of the wall, straight into the maintenance bays. If a vehicle is cleared to directly fly over the wall, it has to land in the secondary courtyard behind the gates.

Behind the gates on the city side is a courtyard, a hundred meter by hundred meter square, with ten-meter high, razor-wire topped walls. It is overseen constantly by four watch towers.

Every 1000 meters along the wall stands a watchtower protruding another ten meters above the surface of the wall. The top is a barrack with two guard stationed inside.

The wall is wide enough and strong enough that vehicles can traverse it like a road.It is not uncommon for areas that need reinforcement to have personnel delivered by a Wagon Taxi. Within the wall itself a small monorail performs a similar service, and runs along the centerline of the wall just below the surface of the ground that is powered by special gem golems.

Support Structures:
Such a massive operation as maintaining the wall takes a great deal of support personnel, water, food and organization. The wall houses much of this within its bulk, with several armories, barracks, monitoring stations, mess halls, housed within the structure. Other support buildings, such as garages, landing pads and refueling stations protrude from the rear of the wall into Manehatten, intermixing with the bars, strip joints and clubs that vie for the attention of the guards.

Military Bases:
The other Primary purpose of the wall is to serve as the Houses primary military base to organize and House many of the Houses military units.
The primary Headquarters of the Military is Castle Aurum.
Positioned between Gates Diamond and Opal this military base is a squat and heavily reinforced castle. Housing most of the Houses military command structure and administration, it handles the day to day affairs of the military as well as serving as a lynchpin defensive position should the wall be breached as Castle Aurum sits at a strategic crossroads that allows it to reinforce and defend other sections of the city.

The other Castle in the city is Castle Argentum which defends Manehatten Bay while serving as the Whitegold Navies base of operations. Cannons and Ballista pointed outward to fire upon any hostile ship or navy that tries to force it's way into the Bay.

Other then these two Castles the Wall also contains a number of Bases.
Each Base is attached to the Wall and services one of Whitegolds Military Brigades. Their duty is to serve as a launch point for Operations either outside of Manehatten or alternatively serve on The Wall in the case of Peace or Siege.

Realtion with the Undercity.
Surrounding the famed Fortress City of Manehatten is the Undercity Sprawl. The Undercity Sprawl is diverse and divided into a number of districts. Some districts are more well off then other districts.
Some sections of the Undercity could be termed Slums. Cobbled together or heavily dilapidated structures both new and old. Crime is high many Ponies live in destitute poverty.

Other sections, though smaller and more uncommon of the Undercity are relatively peaceful neighborhoods, while not incredibly affluent by any means they don't suffer from the soul crushing poverty of other sections of the Undercity. Typically these Neighborhoods benefit from being either close to the Wall or following a vital road in and out of the city. Crime is still a problem but oftentimes these neighborhoods will organize Ad-Hoc volunteer police forces to attempt to keep the peace, though these police ponies have no real authority outside of their neighborhood and rely on Whitegold Peacekeepers. The buildings are average affairs, typically wood and rarely stone. These neighborhoods are older well designed buildings from before the War.

The Undercity serves as another line of defense. Being a maze of slums, side-road and maze like neighborhoods it makes it a daunting task to assault. It doesn't help that House Whitegold can easily deploy troops into areas of the Undercity with Airships. Making any fight here into a grueling and bloody city fight.

The Undercity doesn't not edge up towards the wall, rather a 100 yard 'killzone' is established, a ring of green grass and some outbuildings and guard houses but otherwise cleared to provide clear killzones for Whitegold weapons fire in case of a Siege or Assault.

A number of large roads and bridges leading from the Gates and oftentimes threw the Undercity and out to the Countryside are present. Large and clear these roads provide quick egress from the gates to areas outside the city.

(Presence of Trains? Dunno. Tunnels would also likely be present but heavily guarded and kept secret.)

2098572
Very interesting take on how exactly the layout for the Wall works and is managed. In addition, the whole idea of the Undercity being a large urban sprawl where any force marching on the city would have to fight for in order to even reach the wall leaves some interesting ideas of how battles turn out. Definitely some type of dedicated urban fighters should be thought of to further explain how Whitegold has used the Undercity to their advantage.

What would you say is the status of the Whitegold 'Navy'?

2395606
Maritime or airborne?

Whitegold's airships seem to be mostly converted cargo ships and pleasure yachts. I'd guess that airships are extremely expensive and uncommon.

Maritime ships we haven't seen any of yet since all the primary factions are on the same continent.

2400443

Indeed, though for Whitegold I think this would be a particularly important aspect of their faction. As they do own what appears to be Equestria's biggest port as well as two of Equestria's main ports (Manehatten and Baltimare. Foaledo is rebel, Colterado is Earthborn, and Stalliongrad is Moon and Star. As a side note they also do seem to control the mouth of the river leading up to Filydelphia). Given that commerce is likely a lifeblood of Manehatten, I would think they would have a sizable presence in the Gulf of Manehatten, especially to maintain ties with the Emerald Coast and beyond.

The naval potential of all houses was never fully developed...or even addressed as long as I recall...heh.
About Whitegold, I can't help but imagine them as the British East India Company...

Commerce and all but they do pack a punch too. Of course, not too PotC inclined..that would be weird...

2402430

I think Pipsqueek already has that handled.

The funny thing about the British East India Company that, at least initially, their power was not so much in soldiers and imperialist colonizing but in making the local rulers dependent on the highly developed skills of company employees (Gunmaking starting it all with the Safavids) and giving out loans (which often enough came with very HIGH terms for breaking such contracts. Case in point of the Qadjar Shahs of Iran was forced by popular demand to break a treaty with the British that would have given them a monopoly, the terms for breaking the contract included not only giving the British an outrageous amount of money but also leading stock in Iran's National Bank). These are areas the Whitegold House appear to have in par excellence per their "Quality over Quantity" theme. One can imagine Whitegold 'Advisers' behind the thrones of several rulers along the Emerald Coast.

2402430
I did a thread on that, its buried here somewhere.
Considering Moon and stars has shore batteries protecting its coastal cities I'd say the seas have plenty of fighting, mostly Whitegold, Moon and stars, and Earthborn.
Whitegold has a serious control over trade as they hold Manehattan. If its anything like the real life New York city then the port is likely filled with ships from all over. Whitegold likely maintains a strong navy to protect its coastal and potentially overseas interests much like real world Venice.

I would like to see a proper map of Manehattan though. Someone suggested that their are like outposts inside the undercity which the Militia use as bases for patrols and strong points for a defense.

2407693

Seaborne and Riverine raids by Whitegold into Moon/Star and Earthborn territory does seem their style. Strike with a flash and bang and get out as soon as possible with the family jewels and silverware.

2418930
yeah it does. People underestimate just how effective naval power would be. Look how many rivers are on the map, each on of those is a high way for getting large numbers of troops and artillery around the land. Whoever controls the sea controls trade which I'm guessing is still a considerable part of most houses economies.

2418930
And most likely employing privateers who can't immediately be traced back to them.

2419678
Something tells me Pip might do some wet work for them if the coin is good

2422396

Extortion...trade...tomato...tamato

2422973
Piracy... Privateering... all a matter of perspective and paperwork.

here's one thing that should be considered with the undercity. What happens if there's a fire or a plague?

3179215
Word choice: When there's a fire there's probably some haphazard attempt by everypony to save their own property, maybe the militia organizes a bucket brigade if it spreads too far. Just like every civilization before the Great London Fire of 1666.

Plague I expect involves a lot of shunning the infected if not driving them out with rocks, until the zombies show up and the militia is called in.

3179264
yeah but one really bad fire like in the middle of an attack when the militia can't deploy a bucket brigade because they need everypony they can get manning the defenses. Casualties would be in the thousands.

3180024
Somehow I get the feeling Whitegold wouldn't really care.

3180051
probably. At least until all the ash and charred meet started to stink.

3180054
They're on the far side of a big wall.

3180340
Yeah but in the middle of summer? It starts wafting up into the air and then gets blow by a southern breeze right over the wall and now all those fancy nobles have to gag.