Are Celestia and Luna Dying? · 3:34am Aug 4th, 2015
When I was watching MLP: FiM for the first time last year, I developed some thoughts (as I'm sure many of you have). Today I'd like to talk about the Royal Sisters, Celestia and Luna.
When Twilight was coronated in Magical Mystery Cure, I asked myself some questions: If Equestria has two princesses already (and a third ruling the Crystal Empire), then why exactly would it need another? Why would Celestia spend years grooming Twilight for a position that was already filled?
A couple months afterward, I picked up a copy of The Journal of the Two Sisters and read over Celestia's and Luna's past. While reading, I stumbled upon this interesting passage:
"Because alicorns age at a different rate than the rest of the pony races, Luna and I don't have our cutie marks yet. Being a 'blank flank' at our age never felt unusual...ut now that we are surrounded by so many ponies who have their cutie marks and are so much younger than we are, I must admit, it feels a bit odd" (14).
From this, it becomes clear that alicorns are not born fully grown. It is also implied that Celestia and Luna were not the first alicorns to walk the 'Earth' (alicorns had to have existed long enough so that they could learn the aging rate of the race). But this raises the question of where Celestia and Luna came from. If there were alicorns before them, then they very well could have had parents (assuming that they weren't created by some pony god). If they did have parents, then another question is raised: What happened to them? Unfortunately, the book doesn't delve into the sisters' family or lives before their coronation. I found this weird and I asked why aren't their parents mentioned. Since books can't talk, I'll have to leave it at that (for now).
The most obvious conclusion we can draw from the quote is that alicorns do, in fact, age over time. They're born, they go through foalhood, and they have to earn their cutie marks just like everypony else. Since she ages slower, that means that Celestia is able to survive to the present day. But...whose to say that the effects of getting older haven't, in some way, affected our Sun Princess?
Let's take a look.
During their early reign, Celestia and Luna are very active with dangers to Equestria. The Journal of the Two Sisters describe, in detail, adventures such as a dragon taking the Crystal Heart and a manticore kidnapping ponies. After the events of the book, they take on such threats as Discord and Sombra and they successfully defeat them. This long stream of successes all happen in their "youth", over a thousand years before Twilight comes along.
How do they fight a thousand years later?
Luna spent nearly all that time banished on the moon, so she hasn't seen a lot of fighting. What we do know, however, is that the experience of being on the moon and being controlled by Nightmare Moon has weakened her. This is shown by her pale blue mane when she was liberated as opposed to the bold, mystical one she bears both before banishment and after some time to recover.
Celestia is going to take a bit more time to talk about.
First, here's her standoff with Chrysalis in A Canterlot Wedding Part 2
Celestia starts the fight with a sun beam at 0:23. At 0:33 (10 seconds later), the beam starts to give way to Chrysalis's green beam. At 0:35 (2 seconds later), Chrysalis's beam reaches Celestia's horn. At 0:37 (2 seconds later), there's an explosion. And at 0:40, Celestia is seen on the ground, defeated.
Now I understand that it's hard to quantify the power of either contender, but the fact that the fight only lasts 17 seconds (and only 10 of them were in her control) kind of says something about Celestia's strength.
Was she always this weak?
It should be noted that most of the time, Celestia does not use her own physical capabilities to deal with enemies. In The Journal of the Two Sisters, she was able to defeat her enemies by talking them down (specifically using the Royal Canterlot Voice to intimidate them). And with the major threats (such as Discord), she used the Elements of Harmony rather than her own magic. The only example we have (as of August 2015) to evaluate Celestia's raw physical strength in the past is her battle with Nightmare Moon in Princess Twilight Sparkle Part 2.
The fight begins at 2:08 when NM charges up her first beam but for the sake of this argument I'll use the later time of 2:11 (when Celestia dodges said beam). With this later time, Celestia is struck down by NM at 2:30. This is about 19 seconds. This may not seem like much an improvement over her duel with Chrysalis but there's a defining moment in this scene that really drives everything: she gets back up. It may take about 22 seconds from contact with the beam to starting to rise back up but the fact that that comeback happens really says something about Celestia a thousand years ago.
For further reference, let's compare the two enemies Celestia has had to face. Now it appears as if Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis are both pretty powerful entities. The former was defeated with the Elements of Harmony while the latter was done so by the Power of Love. It would be easy to just bluntly state that the Elements of Harmony are more powerful than the Power of Love but I'm not going to do that. It's too difficult to determine which is more powerful and whether the other power source would have worked on the other enemy (Power of Love on NM). Because of this, I'm going to assume that both have equal power. Therefore, Celestia has had to face the same enemy twice over a thousand years apart. While they were both a hoof-full for her to put up with, she manages to defeat NM after a hard-earned fight while being incapacitated by Chrysalis. If Celestia is just strong in the present as she was a thousand years ago, then she should have been able to put up a longer fight with Chrysalis, even if she still lost. Because of this, it's quite likely that Celestia's powers have been deteriorating. Even though Luna hasn't really fought, chances are she has been going through the same thing because she's the same age as Celestia. And when you add this to the fact that alicorns age slower than most ponies, then you should arrive at the main point I'm trying to make here.
Celestia and Luna will soon die of old age.
Now I know what some of you might say: "But Celestia doesn't look old." While there aren't any clear answers, there are several plausible explanations for this. One of them is probably alicorn biology. Maybe there's something special about their exterior appearance that prevents it from wrinkling or going gray. This would mean that all the effects of aging would be concentrated in her organs and inner bodily processes. Another explanation is a magical spell that stops wrinkling and graying. And a third would be special royal treatment (oils, lotions, shampoos, massages, etc.) It would make sense why Celestia wouldn't want to look like she's growing old: she wants to appear lively and strong (even if she isn't). And it's understandable why Celestia would want to establish this image even as she's becoming weaker. The general population is more likely to be confident in a leader that at the very least looks strong. On top of that, enemies to Equestria would be less likely to attack if they think they will have to put up with a powerful ruler.
But even with all of this, Celestia is completely aware of her fate. Chances are she may even know when she and her sister will pass on. She knows Equestria will need a successor. It can't be Cadence because she's already busy ruling the Crystal Empire. It can't be an elected official because that can open the door for a corrupt, unworthy pony to come into power. And having a foal would be unlikely because her age would make her body ill-suited for carrying one. With all this in consideration, she realizes that her only option is to hoof pick one and raise her to be a great leader.
She led her to search all of Equestria in search of a pony that is extremely intelligent and hard-working. Since magic is a powerful tool, she limited her options to unicorns. It wasn't that she couldn't have converted an Earth pony or pegasus but she would then have to teach them magic from the most elementary level up. After a lot of searching, she then selected Sunset Shimmer-- the most talented unicorn she came across.
Celestia raised Shimmer much like her own, teaching her advanced magic as well as the qualities of a good leader. But even with her best efforts, Celestia failed to mold an effective successor. Shimmer was far too arrogant, patronizing, and ambitious to earn the role as princess. But it was only after Shimmer escaped to the human world that Celestia realized something very important: Shimmer wouldn't have been able to use the Elements of Harmony to stop Nightmare Moon. And the reason for that is very simple.
Destiny.
Destiny is a rather interesting component of the show. It may not receive as much spotlight as friendship or some of the show's other themes however its role is very significant. In Princess Twilight Sparkle, we are shown the Tree of Harmony-- the place where the Elements of Harmony originally came from.
As you can see, the tree has Celestia's and Luna's cutie marks engraved into it.
Going back to The Journal of the Two Sisters, it's revealed that Celestia and Luna were originally offered the positions of princesses by Star Swirl the Bearded even though they were still blank flanks*. But Star Swirl the Bearded knows time travel spells (It's About Time) and he has been shown to use them to see far into the future (The Journal of the Two Sisters). Even though destiny is a force higher than both Celestia and Star Swirl, it's apparent that time travel can be used in order to determine who will be touched by its graces. Because of this, it's very likely that Star Swirl used it to determine that Celestia and Luna would each receive a cutie mark inscribed on the Tree of Harmony (a sun and a moon), making them attached to the Elements of Harmony, and therefore would be best suited to become princesses.
*In Return of Harmony Part 1, Celestia said that she and Luna "stood up" against Discord when he "ruled Equestria in an eternal state of unrest and unhappiness". It may appear that this implies that this is how the two originally rose to power but such is not the case. In Princess Twilight Sparkle Part 2, the flashback of Celestia and Luna defeating Discord clearly show their cutie marks. This means that Discord took over Equestria after Celestia and Luna were coronated, thus making The Journal of the Two Sisters the source to go to when researching their early reign. And if you still don't believe me, here's the video so you can check for yourself:
Given how Celestia had a close relationship with Star Swirl, she probably learned the spell from him. After Sunset Shimmer, Celestia realized that she had to pick the right pony, the one with the third cutie mark on the Tree: a six-pointed star. With this knowledge, she traveled into the future to find that pony. She didn't have to go too far into the future, however, to find Twilight Sparkle. Celestia saw a unicorn that would not only acquire the six-pointed star as a cutie mark but would also be a young adult by the time Nightmare Moon escaped from her banishment. She would be able to use the Elements of Harmony. She would be her successor.
Now with this evidence to support the possibility of Celestia and Luna dying, skeptics may still claim one of two things. One, they can't die because MLP is a kids show. And two, it wouldn't be tasteful. I will address both.
One. Characters have died in both kids shows and movies. Disney, the epitome of family entertainment, is widely known for its many death scenes (some of which, are pretty gruesome). While we have had things like Mufasa's death, kids entertainment has also been known for portraying death more as passing on as anything else. While the character in question may no longer be among their friends and family, their lives on. If done correctly, this type of death is both heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time.
And this leads right into number two: taste. If Celestia and Luna were to pass on, I would imagine the episode surrounding it to take this type of approach.
They decide to only announce the fact a month before it happens. Twilight is both saddened over losing two amazing companions and horrified over having to take their place. She spends nearly all of the remaining time in Canterlot to provide support and to seek any last bits of advice.
In their last couple of weeks, Celestia and Luna teach Twilight how to raise the sun and the moon. They also let her in on Equestria's most deeply held secrets and words of wisdom. And on the side, they hang out as if there's nothing wrong.
But at last, the time comes and the two of them stand together atop the highest balcony of the castle watching the twilight sky. The Mane Five and Cadence all accompany Twilight as they go to see the Princesses one last time. Luna doesn't have much to say aside from thanking them for re-accepting her into Equestria. Celestia gives warm, encouraging words to each of them individually; things that make them special and how they changed her own life.
She saves Twilight for last and tells her how she saw her grow as a pony from a filly into a mare. She assures her that she has taught her everything she needs to know in order to serve Equestria for the best. Tears come to her eyes as she tells Twilight how she was the closest thing she ever had to a daughter and thanked her for filling her final years with so much joy and pride. And her final words to her is "I love you."
Before Twilight can say something back, Celestia and Luna both rise from the ground and they open their forelegs and wings. As they ascend, they slowly evaporate. All of them stare at the sight. Twilight has a slight urge to try and stop it but she knows that there's nothing that can be done.
Once they're gone, the new ruler can only see the sky before her. Her mind is as clouded with confusion as her eyes are with tears. She starts crying as continues to look out at the horizon. Everyone surrounds her as she remembers the years of being with Celestia while fearing what the future will hold.
Eventually, Twilight feels the warmness and love of those close to her. She wipes her eyes and looks up at the sky before her. A small grin grows on her face and she tells herself.
"I am ready."
Interesting theory, from what I can tell. I only have time to skim at this moment, and I intend to reread at length later on. That said, take my comment with a grain of salt.
I think you're reading a bit too much into this. The book, as far as I know, is non-canonical, so we can't really take that into account. You brought up her showdowns with Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis, and those aren't especially good examples. For one, it's possible, likely, even, that Nightmare Moon had no intention of actually harming her sister. And, as far as timing goes, that's not very fair either, as a cartoon's sense of time is very odd. The entirety of the first three season take place in the span of a single year, despite some episodes having time gaps of weeks in between, and, until Lesson Zero, the events of the episodes only happened every week. That means 29 weeks have passed from episode one to Lesson Zero, and even longer later on. This makes it hard to believe that the entirety of the first three season (especially with certain episodes taking place over the span of two or three days) happened in a single year. I doubt that the recovery time in seconds are usable statistics.
You said something that caught my eye. You asked if Celestia was always that weak, which isn't the case. It's not a matter of how weak Celestia is, rather, how strong Chrysalis is. Remember, she had been draining Shining's love for Cadance for ages, and that's why she was able to overpower Celestia. She even says this herself. It's hard to get a baseline of her power then versus now, because they were so drastically different scenarios.
I think it's a bit extreme to say that they're dying just because they want to teach someone what they know. I think it's a manner of seeing potential and not wanting it to go to waste. She saw the potential good that Equestria could gain from someone like Sunset Shimmer, and she wanted to nurture that. I think it's safer to assume that Celestia began tutoring Twilight to make up for Sunny, rather than because she was becoming more aware of her own mortality. As for why Equestria needs another princess, it's because Canterlot is only so big. Celestia and Luna can't reach everywhere, which is where Twilight and her friends come in. Plus, they're very different in terms of personality than Twilight. I highly doubt that Celestia or Luna would be able to solve the problem in Our Town or Griffonstone. Luna couldn't even solve a problem she herself created. The reason that Equestria needs another princess is because Celestia and Luna aren't exceptionally good at making friends. That's what Twi is there for.
Now this is some pretty cool speculating. Plus, this makes total sense!
It sucks that we can't fave blog posts, because I love this one.
Ooh I really like this theory!
3293224 I agree with all of this
3293419 Are you referring to my comment or the theory?
3294659 Your comment
Interesting theory. Alicorns on there own definitely don't seem to be immortal, since there was a tribe that Celestia and Luna were descended from, and they're gone now.
Here's an alternate possibility: Celestia and Luna are immortal, unlike every other alicorn, because of their special talents. Other alicorns and unicorns can raise the sun and moon, but Celestia and Luna's special talent is apparently the magic of the sun and moon "rejuvenates" them. That's how they gained excess magic to restore Starswirl and the other unicorns. When Tirek steals magic from others, he goes from old and weak looking to young and strong. What if that "rejuvenating" effect grants them immortality? Of course, Luna was denied access to the moon for a thousand years, but if she was basically frozen by the Elements of Harmony, she wouldn't have aged anyway. Also, it means that if Celestia and Luna stopped raising the Sun and Moon long enough, they would eventually age and die. What do you think?
3295294
While I find that alternate theory both interesting and plausible, I feel like Celestia and Luna naturally becoming old would serve the show better. Not only would it explain why Equestria needs another princess but it would also serve as a major point in Twilight's development. She spent her whole life building up the magic and intelligence to be an effective leader. Her moving to Ponyville taught her the other essential quality of being a leader: compassion. At this point in the series, Twilight has the capability to make smart, logistical decisions that will ultimately benefit the people of Equestria. She may have come a long way but I feel the final step of her development would be her mentor leaving her for good. Twilight will be ready to use what she has learned to rule Equestria on her own.
3295332 Yeah, I can see the narrative flowing better with Twilight like that. The only thing I would add is, I think Cadance fits better with Shining Armor running that weird Equestrian territory/protectorate and safeguarding the Crystal Heart. For a story that is so centrally focused on redemption, I'd love to see Sunset Shimmer brought back to Equestria instead, to take up the sun that is her special talent and destiny, just as Twilight will need to one day assume control of the night sky.