Link

This chapter isn't complete yet, but I'm posting it for you to see because the main section is finished.

This is a relatively short, but very dense chapter expositionally. The meeting with Storm Shadow is about 4500 words long. Next, I'll be drafting the private meeting between Celestia and Luna where they will be discussing what to do about Nyx, should the worst happen. I don't think that will be a very long section. Maybe 1500 words at most.

I'm very curious what you all think of our antagonist now. Remember, my objective is to misdirect the reader regarding him. They should not connect him with the zebra plague or suspect him of plotting any sort of wrongdoings. Storm is obviously in favor of Nyx embracing her transformation and bringing the war to an end. And I think I've given a very compelling reason as to why Storm believes she can do this. He truly doesn't believe that Nyx would turn against Equestria. He's hoping that Nyx will actually rule in place of the sisters. It's no secret what he desires as the end goal. But the means to that goal are very much hidden from the reader at this point.

I'd like everyone to pop in the thread here and say something so I can give notifications when the next section is finished.
Thanks!

5154088 Well if I were to read this story blind lacking the knowledge to begin with, I'd say you performed well with the meeting of Storm and Nyx... I don't have too much suspicion about Storm at frist glance. Oh sure I am concerned like Nyx about why was he was talking about, then cam the journal and it slightly removed my suspicions of him... slightly I added... I still feel a bit tense about him but otherwise this is good

I am a person who exists.

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I'd say you achieved the goal of keeping Storm Shadows plot a secret. Not having the meeting between him and Razor at the end of the chapter was a good call I think. At the moment Strom Shadow comes across as a kindred spirit to Nyx, suffering for what he's done in the past. (Damn it, a past sins reference) It's clear what he believes and what he wants from Nyx, but, crucially he doesn't press the issue. He leaves Nyx and the reader with some information to chew on.

It's good that you're planting seeds of doubt within Nyx concerning Celestia and Luna, these should hopefully transfer over to the reader. Storms done a good job of subtly sowing the seeds, even if, at this point, he doesn't know he has. I think the next scene is crucial to this angle, reinforce the idea that the sisters view Nyx as a possible threat. If you villainise the sisters a little it can only add to Nyxs feelings later on as her powers grow.

You could use this later if needs be, perhaps have Storm Shadow arrested over the journal to further deepen Nyxs mistrust.

Only thing I'd add, is what has been mention in the suggestion box, give more physical hints to Storm. Give him the thousand yard stare, that hollow eyed look leaves you in no doubt that he's seen some serious shit.

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Yeah, the parallel to Nyx from Past Sins should really generate the sympathy for Storm in Past Sins fans. Importantly, it has to be genuine. And while I myself have misdirected the readers, everything Storm has revealed is 100% true. He has simply left out the detail about the plague because obviously he can't tell Nyx about that. The fact that Storm's ultimate plan is to have Nyx tortured with his own memory orb device is pretty heavy stuff. And that is a significant part of why he feels bad in this scene. Because he genuinely likes Nyx and wants her to win the war and be a proper ruler for Equestria. He doesn't like the fact that Nyx has to suffer so much to get to that point. But he believes it is necessary. The line "Forgive me, Nyx" is deliberate foreshadowing. Nyx might think the gesture is out of place, but it's not. Also, the killing of innocents (see how that fit smoothly into the misdirection?) is a huge part of his guilt. Storm feels bad for killing innocents and literally says so, but Nyx makes her own assumptions about what that means. It's so much better than just having Storm lie to Nyx. It's really the perfect disguise for the unfolding mystery.

Regarding "Past Sins reference", I was really pleased how well Nyx's decision to abandon the throne in Past Sins fit into this chapter. I think this is a really great way to give a reference, to blend it in naturally with the dialogue. Storm uses the Past Sins reference to provide that compelling reason why he believes Nyx would maintain her good character even as a massively powerful alicorn. This is further misdirection, since Nyx as a "wild alicorn" is a fair bit different than Nyx "as Nightmare Moon". She really would disconnect from the mortal ponies and likely destroy or at least abandon them at some point. Storm doesn't know this, though.

Regarding Celestia & Luna and sowing doubt in them, I was thinking something along the same lines. It might flow out naturally, since Nyx is being pulled in opposite directions by people she trusts. And though Nyx does a good job defending Luna in this scene, Storm's point that they are keeping secrets is compelling enough to cause Nyx to doubt. Especially if it could end the war and they chose not to act. I think it would take a fair bit of work for an astute reader to pick up on the truth behind all of it at this point in the story. Reading it a 2nd time through ought to be a treat with the benefit of hindsight to see all the foreshadowing and misdirection.

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I'm curious what everyone thinks of the plot pacing so far. We've revealed quite a bit of stuff via exposition at this point. The previous chapter reveals the nature of the plague. This chapter reveals a whole lot about ancient alicorn history. I've also name dropped Misty from the Littlehorn story. Connecting the protagonist of Littlehorn to the antagonist of this story is a pretty bold move. I'm wondering what effect that will have on reader perception. Also, how does everyone feel about revealing that Misty is Storm's daughter at this stage of the story rather than further down the road?

5154493 Well that depends on (though unlikely) if the readers, new or not, read the Littlehorn book. Plot pacing so far is not so bad, it's not fast but it's also not too slow...

As for the reveal that Misty is Storm's daughter, well I can say that I am clearly shocked to find out about it. I sure as hell did not see that coming in mind... yet at the same time I can see as (if I am using this right) in Storm's perspective, a sort of desperation if he wants Nyx to embrace her transformation.

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Oh, the (Damn it, a past sins reference) was me chiding myself for a nearly using "Past Sins" to explain the link between Storm and Nyx
You know how I am with references

But yes, mentioning Nyxs rejection of the throne was a good move. It establishes that Storm admires her for her actions, which helps further cement the idea that he's an ally to her. And a nod to the fans

What makes the talk between Storm and Nyx great is that Nyx herself is misdirecting us. It's her peception that colours this scene and its wholly sympathetic. What he says worrys her, but she doesn't feel any danger or reason to suspect him. While he, as you said, is completely truthful (save for the unmentionable).

With Celestia and Luna you're definitely on the right track. Nyx still trusts them but Storm has placed the seed of doubt in her that eventually explodes when she confronts them.

Pacing wise I'd say we're moving at a reasonable rate. At the moment we're setting the scene for the infection and Nyxs alicorn problems, throw in some more scenes of the infections spread and we're ready for the climax of this arc

As for Misty, she needed to be mentioned here I think. To build the readers sympathy for Storm and so it doesn't come out of nowhere later. She is another tool to misdirect Nyx in this scene, Nyx assumes that grief has done this to him, which is true, in part, but not the whole picture. Gives a foundation for conversations later

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I am clearly shocked to find out about it. I sure as hell did not see that coming

LOL! That's awesome. I'm not sure if you just happened to miss all the discussion about that... or if that was before you came on board. Or, it might have something to do with the fact that both Misty and Storm Shadow have gone through name changes since then...

I highly recommend you go read Littlehorn again, armed with this knowledge that Misty is Storm's daughter. Pay particular attention to the many times Misty refers to her dad and cross reference that with what you know about him from this story. It's a careful weaving that is meant to keep both stories intact and independent of one another and yet also be linked in a way that is very satisfying for those who catch the connection.

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Yep yep. I'm pretty excited about how this whole thing turned out. When I look at the mess of the original draft of this section, I clearly had no planning back then. It was terribly on the nose and excessively leading. There was no emotional element or really any of the things that make the new version feel alive. I'm thrilled at how their dialogue flows now. Lots of little subtleties like how Nyx's internal perception links with the surrounding dialogue, or even the specific memories Nyx chooses to focus on and how they flow from the surrounding conversation. The memory references give us a bit more exposure into Nyx's history as an adult while not boring the reader with a list of events and dates. And then there's the "accident" with the first memory test. I was thinking that just maybe the reader might be doubting Storm's intentions and then suddenly, Nyx is thrust into an experience that is terrifying and painful. First gut reaction might be "Storm tricked her". And then to reference Past Sins again with Nyx's creation experience along with another underlining of Nyx's physical age offset (always important to keep in mind), it all blends into each other in a way I'm pretty happy with.

She is another tool to misdirect Nyx in this scene

I agree that this makes her quite valuable to be used in that way. It's a potent misdirection because of the enormous sympathy we have for Misty in Littlehorn. And then this story plays up the emotional aspect of the tragedy in how it affected the survivors. Anyone who is a parent of a Littlehorn student ought to have unquestioned sympathy from the reader at this point.

What's going to be really interesting is that moment where Hyperion possesses him. I need to follow Hyperion's actions but not reveal who he is taking over. There's a lot of ways that could play out, but I've got a bit of time to plan before we get that far.

At the moment we're setting the scene for the infection and Nyxs alicorn problems, throw in some more scenes of the infections spread and we're ready for the climax of this arc

Yep. Very little has changed in the climax of Act One in the last year. It's all mapped out and pretty solid, I think. Dinky will join the team. They'll go get a sky chariot. Everyone will return to Gatorton. Chocolate will return to Withersberg where he gets fired upon. He will return to tell the others, who assume zebras have taken over the town. They will plan a rescue of Mint's sister. On the way there, they will encounter a pony eating another pony along the walking trail just outside of town. Nyx will get pretty upset. They will rescue the sister and take her to Gatorton. She'll give an account of everything that's been going on since our heroes left for Canterlot. The platoon will prepare to attack the town, using the balefire clearing as a staging area. They'll attack the town, wiping out sixty-plus infected ponies in a massive battle and rescuing just a few survivors. Nyx will have a moral lapse as she jumps up a notch in her Wild Alicorn progression. Nyx will encounter Doc Sage... and kill him. A couple infected will flee into the woods near the end of the battle, running into Razor who kills them. Nyx will pursue and get in a fight with Razor by herself. Others will come looking for Nyx, causing Razor to flee. A short denouement later, Act One will finish.

5154628 Will do! After I get some damn shut eye! Goodness my brain just cannot sleep!

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Finished the draft. Same link as before. The meeting between Celestia and Luna has been added to the end of the chapter, bringing the word count up to 5865.

It's not a particularly long meeting. But it took me a while to write because it went through several revisions. I just wasn't happy with how it was turning out. I think it's better now.

There's more hints toward the ancient times, so that fits with the theme of the chapter as Storm's meeting with Nyx talks about the same thing but from a very different angle. Also, Luna is put in quite a bind here. Their talk will probably reinforce the seeds of mistrust Storm planted in the previous section.

Discuss!

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5171289 Oh you poor soul

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5171324 It's either too many words or he's tired right now... Speaking of tired, night is upon me and I need some shut-eye, I'll see about getting this done tomorrow kay?

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Ooh, I am liking the assertive "ruler" Luna.

We discussed this earlier, but seeing Celestia as the hesitant and cautious one in the conversation is a real 360 to how people are used to seeing her. Though Luna is still plagued by her mistakes and past misdeeds which are clouding her judgement on the matter. The pair of them are in a right pickle of that there is no doubt, Lots of little juicy details about their fears in regards to Nyx and what this change might do to her and to everyone around her. Some good insights, especially from Luna herself.

The mention of their mother was nicely dropped, just enough to perk the interest wihtout revealing anything just yet. Also he gets a mention, the first hint of the true enemy

I wonder though if you should mention the Elements at this point. By referring to them simply as "the weapon" it gives a bit more things for the reader to figure out, especially with all that's going on in the Everfree. It's enough that the reader knows that Luna has a backup plan and one that could take Nyx out if needs be.

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Nah, I'm stuck on mobile and can't words good.

seeing Celestia as the hesitant and cautious one in the conversation is a real 360 to how people are used to seeing her

You mean 180. But yeah, Celestia has a history of making mistakes that have cost lives or caused disasters. Between her horrific actions in Treachery to the Littlehorn situation, Celestia is tired of being responsible for catastrophe. It's why she stepped down. And now, she doesn't want anything to do with taking action that could cause further disaster, should her decision be the wrong one.

And Luna has had to learn, as well, that the responsibility of ruler comes with some incredibly difficult decisions. Do you kill your best friend if you know that it is the only way to save your people? In fact, that is such a powerful theme that I may want to camp on that for a while, showing how it's affecting her.

Also he gets a mention, the first hint of the true enemy

Technically, it's the second. The first is in Luna's flashback at the beginning of Magical Ministry Tour. Though it's fairly vague what is actually going on; we only know that someone is out there killing ponies because he is tired of their mother's obsession with them. Today's reference is the first reference to their father and his loathing of ponykind, however.

I wonder though if you should mention the Elements at this point. By referring to them simply as "the weapon" it gives a bit more things for the reader to figure out, especially with all that's going on in the Everfree. It's enough that the reader knows that Luna has a backup plan and one that could take Nyx out if needs be.

Interesting. So, how would I go about this? Just not mention the Elements - and consequently, the Tree of Harmony as well, I imagine? Celestia says they should stay put, and that connects to the fact that Everfree became unstable in S04E01 due to the absence of the Elements. Nice connection with canon there, although that could be brought up later.

Did you happen to catch the extremely subtle foreshadowing to how Nyx's transformation will finally be stopped in the climax? It's in this paragraph.

“Do not make that assumption, Tia. I fear you have forgotten how difficult it was for us when we were her age. Benevolence is your virtue, and you have represented it well. I had no such advantage; I remember how tempting it was to give up the cause. Though neither of us has known the love of a mortal like Nyx has. I pray you are right. Because if you are not, we may have no choice but to—”

Also, I wanted to literally spell out the distinction between Nightmare Moon and a wild alicorn. The final paragraph reveals what Luna understands regarding why she became Nightmare Moon, and why she was not nearly as powerful as the threat which Nyx would pose if this change happens. It's not simply a repeat of the plot of Past Sins, where Nyx returns to the throne and resumes her role as Nightmare Moon again. I think maybe readers will begin drawing that connection, assuming that I'm rehashing Past Sins with a "she may revert" problem. Nightmare Moon was more or less a unique phenomenon. As Luna says here, she was more like a child throwing a tantrum, not in control of herself or her powers. Sure, she had immense power, greater than Celestia, but nothing at all like Hyperion. And perhaps she would have grown into that level of strength eventually. It would certainly have justified Celestia's actions in banishing her, as I've hinted in the previous section with Storm Shadow...

"Celestia seemed to think that Nightmare Moon was such a threat that it merited banishment to the moon rather than trying to subdue her."

Though this is allowing Storm to continue to misunderstand wild alicorns. Incomplete information is great because it lets Storm be misinformed, which in turn misleads the readers without the character having to be dishonest about it. This applies to Luna's final paragraph as well - even Luna herself does not fully understand what caused her heart to become corrupted.

All in all, I find it very interesting how the two sections of this chapter present very different views on the wild alicorns of old. Taken together, the sections should get the reader's mind wondering what is actually going on with all of this. It is timely since we just resolved the previous mystery regarding the nature of the zebra plague. This is a Babylon 5 style progressive mystery.

I'm open to ideas for a better title, by the way. Maybe something to do with the problem of alicorns or anything clever along that theme. The current title plays on Storm's name, hinting of major trouble hiding just out of sight. But there may be other titles which fit better.

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You mean 180.

I seem to be doing this a lot lately

Interesting. So, how would I go about this? Just not mention the Elements - and consequently, the Tree of Harmony as well, I imagine?

A trick would be to imply that the weapon might be hidden inside the Castle of the Two Sisters, that way you can mention the problems with the Everfree and the Tree of Harmony.

It's interesting that I always view the Elements as being fairly benign. Since every time they've been used they never actually kill or destroy anything, they contain or purify. Funny thing is, with the Elements being a weapon made to kill wild alicorns it implies that Celestia set them to stun to contain Luna rather than destroy her and that the new bearers have been using them at a fraction of their true power.

It's great that alicorns and the changes they undergo are still a mystery, even to themselves. Celestia and Luna never fully matured as adult alicorns, in a way, they're trapped as teenagers trying to muddle through without their elders to guide them. Between Storm and the Sister's we're presented with two opposing camps; one view's it as embracing one's destiny while the other is afraid of what might happen if they do, and poor Nyx is stuck in the middle.

Did you happen to catch the extremely subtle foreshadowing to how Nyx's transformation will finally be stopped in the climax? It's in this paragraph.

It's good to bring up virtues and reinforce their importance to Nyx's struggle. Especially as things begin to heat up for our plucky heroine.

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I always view the Elements as being fairly benign. Since every time they've been used they never actually kill or destroy anything, they contain or purify.

Well, Past Sins says the same thing, literally. In Castle of Nightmare, we have this quote:

Princess Celestia shook her head. “Not destroyed, Luna. The Elements of Harmony are not a force of destruction. They could only separate you from the power and jealousy that once possessed you. They peeled Nightmare Moon off of you and left behind the tattered shreds like discarded fruit peels.”

Not that I am bound to maintain this. I've repurposed the Elements of Harmony in my own universe to be something else entirely. Luna herself created the weapon, so she is fully aware of what it is for and what it can do. That line from Past Sins is just going to have to not be canon in my story.

Funny thing is, with the Elements being a weapon made to kill wild alicorns it implies that Celestia set them to stun to contain Luna rather than destroy her and that the new bearers have been using them at a fraction of their true power.

With Nightmare Moon, banishment was an option because of her unique situation. She wasn't Hyperion levels of dangerous, and imprisonment in the moon could contain her. I doubt it would contain a wild alicorn.

Also with the bearers, they seem more like triggers than wielders. They bear the elements, but they never truly seem to put any sort of conscious direction into what the Elements are doing. It's more like they initiate the weapon and then it decides how to deal with the threat. All the bearers do is have the will to stop the enemy, but notice that between Nightmare Moon, Discord, and Tirek, that the rainbow beams handled each one very differently. (Tirek being an exception because the Elements weren't actually used there. Tirek and the rainbow power states are not canon in my universe anyway, so I'll just use that as a stand-in for the Elements in this case.)

This implies that the Elements are semi-sentient, capable of evaluating an individual threat and applying whatever solution is necessary to handle it.

But this isn't how it must be. Perhaps the bearers do have some sort of deliberate control over it. Perhaps Celestia chose to banish rather than destroy. Either way works. In Lullaby for a Princess, it seemed like a very spontaneous decision, Celestia being thrown into the castle and the opportunity presenting itself with mere seconds to spare. Whereas in canon MLP, she most certainly did take the time to gather the Elements and use them, fully conscious of what they would do.

It's great that alicorns and the changes they undergo are still a mystery, even to themselves. Celestia and Luna never fully matured as adult alicorns, in a way, they trapped as teenagers trying to muddle through without their elders to guide them.

This is exactly correct. It's difficult to portray in the story, but you've got it nailed down. The sisters are the leading experts on all things alicorn, but there is so much to the whole wild alicorn thing that they do not know. Their only experience with it directly was witnessing their parents. There is also the Great Library I mentioned, which would have been in their fortress home and have been a compiled set of books on topics that predate the sisters. There would certainly be some good information in that library on the subject, but neither of them have been able to review that for over 5000 years.

And having never completed their own transformations, they would also have somewhat limited knowledge on exactly how it affects their minds to go through it. I imply heavily in this chapter that Celestia stopped her transformation somewhat more easily than Luna did. Luna progressed further down the line before finding her virtue, which makes her somewhat more of an authority on what that transformation feels like. She is better qualified to judge what will happen to Nyx than Celestia is, which provides the dissonance that fuels this chapter's conversation.

Between Storm and the Sister's we're presented with two camps; one view's it as embracing one's destiny while the other is afraid of what might happen if they do, and poor Nyx is stuck in the middle.

Yes. And what's more is that Storm's point of view is that Nyx has the potential to actually end the zebra war. Because he is unaware of the changes that Nyx would go through in terms of her internal value system, he believes she would simply gain the power and still be the same character. So the reader is given two very valid perspectives which are simply incompatible.

It's good to bring up virtues and reinforce their importance to Nyx's struggle. Especially as things begin to heat up for our plucky heroine.

Ahh, you didn't catch it. That's okay - as I said, it was extremely subtle foreshadowing. The key is Rumble. In the end, it's his love for Nyx which causes her to finally rid herself of her moral dilemma. It is where Nyx finally realizes that there is one thing which she is not superior to the mortals.

So, would this really be better to not mention the Elements in this conversation? To hint to the readers that the sisters have an anti-alicorn weapon to prepare...

The thing is, I'm not certain whether sending the reader's mind in that direction is for the best. Would they be disappointed when they found out "Oh... it was just the Elements." if I did not say so up front like this? Everybody knows that they are a very powerful weapon which has been used to defeat no less than three super powerful foes in canon MLP.

I do like the idea of hinting that the solution is at the castle. Because the Tree of Harmony is very close to the castle. I'll try and reword it and see how it turns out.

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You do have a point regarding the Elements. It would probably seem to the reader as a copout. Perhaps not imply that the Elements could kill Nyx, everyone expects them to subdue, not destroy.

I had a scary hypothetical thought while thinking of the Elements. What if Hyperion got hold of them in their unbound state? Could he wield them through force of will? He wouldn't have needed them when he was alive, but as Starfire it would be a terrifying to think what he would've done with such power.

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Yeah, that would be terrifying indeed.

My original thought was that the Elements (as a combined weapon) were created by Luna to be able to be wielded only by either an alicorn or by specifically qualified non-alicorns. The idea being that the sisters would own and wield them as needed. But if they were killed, then the mortals would still have a chance if they found ponies with the required collection of virtues. The purpose of Luna designing it this way would have been so that no mortals could discover the artifacts and then use them to rule the world. The binding also makes them useless if wielded individually (which jives well with show canon). It's essentially a failsafe password key to keep them out of the hooves of anyone who is power hungry. but still provide a weapon sufficiently powerful to be able to defeat a wild alicorn.

I realize how similar this is to what happened in Immortal Game, but I came up with it independently of that story.

Basically, in Immortal Game, Celestia had her own "failsafe" with Twilight being trained from a small child to be able to defeat a future uprising of Nightmare Moon. And contemporary Celestia counted on the Elements being found and utilized by the resistance movement in order to defeat her parents.

In this case, it was the fact that alicorns are born on very rare occasion which demanded the necessity for the mortals to be ready to handle it should one threaten their existence again in the future. Since they could not predict what that might look like, Luna created a weapon which would serve that purpose while still compensating for so many unknown factors about the future. The only scenario she did not think of was the one where the wild alicorn in question was aware from the start of the Elements and their power, with known bearers already present and where one or more of the bearers had a vested interest in said alicorn.

I'm unsure whether it's a good idea to have the "binding" with specific mortals interfere with an alicorn's ability to wield them. As in, should Celestia and/or Luna be unable to use them as they were prior to returning them to the tree? That would seem to interfere significantly with show canon. I'm not sure.

So yeah, the way I've repurposed the Elements of Harmony in my story turns them into a very different thing than we know them as in canon MLP. Whatever I do to introduce this concept, I probably don't want to make the reader feel like I'm giving any sort of copout. I may need to reveal their purpose (but not their full design) sooner rather than later. What do you think?

Also, I've rewritten those two paragraphs (while leaving the originals present) in the chapter. See if you think the rewrite is better.

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Thinking on it (after sleep) it might be simpler to reveal them right from the start. Let's be honest, every reader will be wondering when the Elements come into play (they are the go-to evilbuster). I think keeping their true purpose a secret might be the best angle to approach it from, the fact they were made specifically to kill alicorns is quite a cool reveal for later.

Reading over the rewrite I think the original does flow better and feels more natural. I think the reader will expect that the Elements are going to play an important role in whats to come, so mentioning them isn't as bad as I thought originally. It's trying to subvert reader expectations, however the Elements are on of those no brainers, only way to throw the reader off was if they weren't vital.

One possible thing to add is mention of the Bearers, Luna and Celestia will probably want them close if they are unable to wield the Elements themselves. There is also the threat of Nyx specifically targetting them if she loses control. Throwing a few contingencies in helps emphasise the threat Nyx could pose.

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Yep, I'll put it back how it was. It's just better that way. The reader doesn't need that particular withholding of information.

One possible thing to add is mention of the Bearers, Luna and Celestia will probably want them close if they are unable to wield the Elements themselves.

Remember this from Past Sins chapter 11 discussion between Celestia and Luna:

“I do not know, Celestia, but there is a far more pressing question you are avoiding,” Luna said firmly, steering the conversation back to the matters at hoof. “The question I’ve asked, the one that you have yet to answer, is why we cannot rely on the Elements of Harmony.”

“Because I dare not ask a mother to strike down her own daughter!” Celestia shouted, directing her anger with Nexus not only at Luna, but also at herself. “Not when I tore that daughter away.”

Past Sins has already mentioned this conundrum. If the bearers must include Twilight, then they are useless because there is no way Twilight would be capable of using them against Nyx.

And yet, if Celestia and Luna could use them without the bearers, then they could have handled Nightmare Moon in Past Sins all by themselves, which was obviously not the case.

Therefore, I think it may be best to require unbinding of the Elements from their bearers in order for Celestia and/or Luna to use them. In Past Sins, they were still bound to the six. But in S04E01, they were returned to the Tree of Harmony. That could have also made them once again available. Or... I could simply forget the minor plot hole in Past Sins and have the sisters able to use them at any time. It does seem like a rather dumb oversight to make them useless for the sisters. But then again, that's canon MLP. If Celestia could just use them whenever... then it begs the question why the six were relied upon so many times in the show.

There is also the threat of Nyx specifically targetting them if she loses control.

True. Which also happened in Past Sins.

In fact, since Nyx can currently be trusted, they may even go as far as to request Nyx check up on the Tree of Harmony and retrieve the Elements for inspection when she goes to investigate the problem in Everfree. Nyx has no reason to view that as suspicious at all, since she doesn't know that the sisters view her as potentially untrustworthy.

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You know... since you're waiting for me to finish chapter 4, you could give me your impression of chapter 12. It doesn't appear you've reviewed it yet.

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I think I went over it pretty thoroughly in the document itself, although I could be misremembering.
*Has another look*
Ya, it's pretty decent. There are a couple of outstanding things that haven't been addressed yet. I'll have a closer look sometime later.

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Alright, guys. I've done some important cleaning in this chapter today. One thing was to clean up the failure of Nyx to press Storm on what he said he knows (by removing his statement about knowing something she doesn't). That was actually a pretty easy fix.

But the big change I made to this chapter is the addition of Nyx actually reading portions of Celestia's journal. This was a pretty bold move, I think. It's high-risk because it puts stuff right out there for the reader to see which is more or less "end game stuff".

See, the story has been toying with the whole idea of the alicorn transformation all through Act One, right? But it's not really relevant to that act for the most part. A whole lot of exposition into the backstory has been revealed during their time in Canterlot, and this chapter has the most concentrated batch of it. Here, we see the veil being lifted quite a bit, revealing specific details about the past from thousands of years ago.

But is it too much? Would it prematurely spoil later parts of the story by showing the reader all this stuff now?

Important facts to consider are what is coming in acts two and three. In Act Two, Nyx receives mentoring from both Luna and Celestia on managing her transformation and tapping the Aether. The training she gets will help develop skills she'll need as the story progresses and the danger increases. What is not revealed to Nyx is the fact that the sisters may have to kill her if she actually completes her transformation. And Storm definitely has good intentions for Nyx and Equestria, but he is misguided because he does not understand how Nyx's mind will be altered. He thinks it'll be like before, where Nyx would retain her values despite being in a position of strength and power. Because of this, Storm thinks the transformation is only a good thing which Nyx would then use to save Equestria, where the sisters realize that if it happened, she would destroy Equestria. These two opposing views are the dichotomy of this chapter.

Also important is that there be enough content to reveal further down the line in the story which can maintain the mystery. In the current text, I reveal a fair bit about Everfree, but I don't say specifically what happened there. I'm not revealing anything about how Periapsis sacrificed herself to save ponykind until the mid-point of act three. And it will be Periapsis herself who reveals that it was Hyperion's horn being shattered over the land which actually caused the malignant effects of Everfree. There will also be moments of revelation here and there when Nyx has her episodes which restore her own memories from back when she was merged with Luna. So there's still quite a bit to reveal, and I'm just hoping that the bits and pieces I give in this chapter aren't going to mess up the revelations down the road.

If you guys could look over the current text in the chapter and comment, I'd really appreciate it. I've highlighted in grey the new text with Nyx reading Celestia's journal. I've also blended in a few paragraphs after that section so that it all continues to flow well.

Oh, and it's worth noting that there won't be any more expository moments like this for the rest of Act One. From this moment forward, it's all brand new events and a fair bit of action and drama.

Let me know what you think.

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Personally, I think you should remove any hint of Hyperion from this part of the story. Even if its a small hint, I think there are a fair few readers that might think "Oh, future big bad here."

Mentioning the weapon might also be a bad move. I think it's best that Nyx is completely ignorant the Sisters possess anything that could threaten her. Nyx is a smart cookie, she'd quickly realise that, historically, only the elements could stop an alicorn; which ruins a potential reveal later. Also, Nyx would want to press the issue with Luna, which could lead to a confrontation.

This might be tough to do, but perhaps use a riddle or a code that hints at a weapon existing. It's likely Celestia would never openly admit the existence of something that could threaten her or Luna. Should the worst of happened, Celestia would have entrusted the journal to her protege who would have been able decipher its meaning.

Perhaps have Shadow show Nyx a particular part of the journal, which focuses on the power of a awakened alicorn. He wants to show how powerful they are and this would emphasize his point nicely. He could have misunderstood the text entirely, assuming that Celestia is only afraid of another alicorn because it could threaten her position. You could also allude to the Everfree this way.

One last thing to consider with Nyx being shown the journal. Knowledge is like crack to somepony like Nyx, especially if it pertains to her current situation, she'd want to take it with her to study in-depth. Shadow is going to need a decent excuse as to why she can't take it with her.

Hmm, perhaps she could take it with her? Then you can drip feed info as Nyx reads through it?

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Well, the problem, as you say, is that if Nyx did take the journal with her, that she'd have the opportunity to fully digest it - which is something we don't want, really. The way I've written it, Nyx sees a couple shocking things and becomes distracted by a certain aspect of it which ends up leading their conversation elsewhere and the book gets put away.

Something to keep in mind is the difference between Nyx's revelation and the reader's revelation. As this is a story meant to feed the reader information at a certain pace, we want that all coming to light in a certain order. It's worth noting that we have not yet even revealed the fact that there is a zebra adversary (Razor) yet. That section where anonymous-Storm meets with Razor is currently slated for the end of chapter 15 (Precipice). This puts it in close proximity to the final battle of Act One, which should work well since Razor shows up in person at the end of that battle, and Nyx finds out who her first true adversary is. Still, the reader can know things before Nyx does. And in the current chapter, it's Celestia and Luna who are talking about the Elements as a weapon without Nyx present. The Elements are not even mentioned in the Nyx/Storm conversation except for in reference to Nightmare Moon. Yes, a weapon is mentioned, but the part Nyx reads does not say that it is the Elements of Harmony.

The main question to ask, I suppose, is what does it permanently change in terms of the context of the story? If we list out the facts revealed in the current text, how do those facts change the characters going forward, and does it get in the way of the storytelling itself?

Nyx finds out that...
* Everfree was established long before there was any forest. And it was apparently a memorial related to ponykind's freedom.
* The parents were extremely powerful, intimidating, and destructive alicorns, and obviously they are no more.
* The power of the wild alicorn is so great that it can seemingly cause pants-shitting terror even from the image of one. I'm not sure whether that needs to be justified or not, but it reads pretty cool.
* Luna devised a weapon to kill a wild alicorn. Though it is not clear yet whether this was actually used or not. The readers might presume it was.
* Nyx's own transformation will depend on how closely she is connected to the mortals. And the sisters went through the same thing (apparently they turned out okay).

The reader finds out that the sisters are discussing Nyx's threat level even now, in the context of whether they will have to act against her. The reader will know that there is at least a chance that Nyx may have no choice but to become one of these ultra destructive wild alicorns and that if she does, there won't be any option like Storm is hoping for, where she could be the savior of Equestria. The reader will know that there are two very different points of view on the end result of Nyx's transformation. And they are more likely to trust the sisters because they have actual experience with all of this.

So with Nyx being aware of all this, how does that affect the rest of the story? Well, the rest of Act One has not much at all to do with it. Dinky joins the team. They go get a sky chariot. They return to the bayou. They discover an infected cannibalistic pony. They rescue Mint's sister from Withersberg. She tells the tale of everything that happened while our heroes were in Canterlot. A raid is planned to take the town, and soldiers prepare for the big fight. The Battle of Withersberg takes place, and the heroes kill pretty much everyone. Nyx gets confronted by Razor. There's a brief aftermath and then Act One is finished. That's it. No more ancient history stuff at all.

Then... we have the interlude which literally shows a scene with Hyperion and filly Celestia where he is trying to get her to kill a mortal pony. We see further scenes from the past, such as when Ziph gets possessed. Possibly something from Sombra. Possibly something from Discord. Possibly other scenes, since the interlude is a great place to give the reader disconnected scenes.

After that, Act Two opens up. It's some weeks later. Our heroes are trying to contain the plague. The researchers in Canterlot are studying a live infected pony (their own orderly who got infected). We may get a flashback to when that infection happened as well. There's any number of tricks I can do with Act Two opening up yet, and I haven't decided what approach to take yet. But the important thing here is that at this point, Nyx is being given guidance from the royal sisters in relation to her use of the Aether. They also reveal certain facts about how it all works so that Nyx and the reader can get a better picture of what is happening to her.

The question is this: Would the current revelations in chapter 12 alter the events of Act Two? If Nyx knew about the journal and what it says, how does that affect things?

Because here is something worth noting: If I try to avoid showing Nyx that journal, then I have to contrive some reason why she can't see it. A story is much more powerful if the author doesn't have to cook up ways to hide things from the characters. If I can be honest and open with both the journal and Storm's intentions, then those contrivances go away and it strengthens the story. But that might mean the journal itself needs to change what it says.

And what does it say? Well, it's purpose was to prepare future generations for the rise of a wild alicorn, and prepare them in case the sisters were no longer around when the need arises. Celestia may even have had a plan to always have six bearers of the Elements of Harmony prepared throughout history "just in case". This is a little bit like what Celestia did with Twilight in Immortal Game, but not so convoluted. Of course, the unforeseen complication, in this case, is that the wild alicorn in question (potentially) would be personally loved by the bearers of the Elements.

The journal's purpose would also have been to give proper warning and motivation to that future generation (should it be needed) to make them understand how serious the situation was. That their very survival was at stake. And lastly, the journal was an outlet for Celestia where she can describe her thoughts on life in the first few years of the new era.

So I'm still not sure yet whether revealing these things is harmful to the story or not. In terms of the reader saying "future big bad", I'm not sure they would. I mean, there's really no hint that Hyperion is still alive at this point in any way, even incorporeally. He's vaguely referred to in Luna's memory in Magical Ministry Tour. And he shows up in person in the interlude. To have an image of him in the journal...? This is a journal from waaaaaay long ago. Are readers going to take this as foreshadowing that he might return Immortal Game style? I have no idea.

As for whether Nyx would put the pieces together and figure out that the Elements exist as a weapon that could be used against her... I'm not sure whether that is avoidable or not. As Luna says at the end of the chapter, the fact that Nyx knows about the Elements complicates things. She wants to recover them. But Celestia thinks they should stay on the tree. That it can wait. She doesn't want to rush things. But what would Nyx do? If she's aware that the sisters may intend to act against her, I don't think she would act out of self-preservation. She's the type of person who would not want to be a threat to others in any way. But she's going to go through moral lapses. And during these, she may act seriously out of character. It never lasts long, though.

Would Nyx confront Luna about all of this early in Act Two? Possibly. And maybe that would be a good thing. If the confrontation is focused on Nyx's potential threat (as Nyx would be thinking of this after reading the journal), then it doesn't have to be a full expository moment there. Nyx could press Luna as to how much of a threat she represents, and whether Luna intends to kill her. Luna could defuse the situation by explaining to Nyx that yes, her parents were wild alicorns and yes ponykind was nearly wiped out as a result. But Luna could also put Nyx's focus back on finding her virtue, which is what both Luna and Celestia had to do. She could keep Nyx's focus on the fact that since the sisters went through the same thing, Nyx simply needs to follow suit, and all will be well. She could underscore the fact that the caution in the journal was meant for scenarios where a wild alicorn ended up arising without guidance, and it ended up being too late for them to find their virtue. Ponykind needed to have an option for survival in such a scenario. It does not necessarily mean that all future alicorns would be a threat. After all, the journal said "In the event a wild alicorn arise in the future"... That is not necessarily the same as "In the event a natural alicorn should be born". So Luna would simply have to explain this to Nyx, and perhaps also explain why she had not revealed anything to Nyx about it earlier.

All in all, I think the current text in chapter 12 could cause a fair bit of nervous false alarms in both Nyx and the reader. If we attribute a fair bit of intelligence to Nyx like she deserves, she may jump to a few disturbing conclusions, given the data she's been exposed to. This tension could exist into the first couple chapters of Act Two and then be released with a discussion Nyx has with Luna asking some important questions and getting some stuff out in the open (but not everything by far). The main purpose would be for Luna to defuse Nyx's concerns and get her back on the path of finding her virtue. Meanwhile, Storm has his own thing going and will soon be possessed by Hyperion anyway, so we won't see much more of Storm (as he is) after the early Act Two chapters.

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* The power of the wild alicorn is so great that it can seemingly cause pants-shitting terror even from the image of one. I'm not sure whether that needs to be justified or not, but it reads pretty cool.

You do have a point regarding the description. The reader is given a rendition of a wild alicorn to show just where Nyxs transformation could take her and it certainly leaves a lasting impression, from this they're left in no doubt that succumbing to the change is a bad move. Perhaps it might be worth throwing in some info on an alicorns power, not just for destruction, but for creation as well. We need to give evidence to give Storm Shadows belief some credence, so Nyx isn't initially repulsed by the idea.

Regarding the Elements, it's a difficult position. If Nyx figured out that the weapon mentioned in the journal was indeed the Elements, then she might reach different conclusions to what I initially thought. Firstly, as far she knows, the Elements have never killed anything, which might lead Nyx to the conclusion that Celestia altered the weapon to neutralize rather than kill. It might also bring Nyx a level of comfort, knowing that if the worst happens her loved ones have a means to stop her. However, as the changes take their toll on Nyx this knowledge will gnaw at her, leading to the confrontation.

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Well, one of the good things about inconclusive or ambiguous revelation is that the characters (and the reader) can come to the wrong conclusions, which in turn provide the opportunity for misdirection. And misdirection in a story almost always creates juicy drama down the road. For the reader, misdirection means there will be more "oooh" moments down the road when things are straightened out. If it's done well, that is. As long as all the facts still apply to the correct revelation.

So if Nyx has a short while where she believes that maybe the sisters can't be trusted, then later she finds out that they can, that's probably okay. Doubt is an amazing storytelling device.

I think it might be useful to compile a list of questions Nyx would have for Luna. Things such as:
Why wasn't I told about the journal?
Why wasn't I told what I am changing into?
The journal implies that a wild alicorn must be killed - why the assumption? Are we all bad? Aren't there any good ones?
Do you really plan to kill me with the Elements?

All of these could be cleared up by Luna explaining that Nyx finding her virtue would make the entire issue go away.

Another angle would be for Nyx to avoid revealing that she knows about the journal and just ask questions to gauge whether she was being told the truth. After all, revealing she has read parts of the journal would surely cause the sisters to demand to know who has the journal. This puts Nyx in a bind since she would either have to put Storm on the line (which would be terrible for the plot) or rebel herself against them, refusing to say how she found out about it.

If Nyx keeps her knowledge from them and tests them by asking specific hard questions, that might be better for the story overall. She would want to know whether she can trust the sisters. And one of the best ways to find out if someone is trustworthy is to secretly gain knowledge that they know but they think you don't know, and then probe for answers to see if they match up.

Any sort of doubt Nyx has over what the journal says is probably an opportunity for self-doubt that can be explored. And like you said, the depiction of the wild alicorn in the journal does provide some fuel for that self-doubt. But Storm's ideas need validation as well. That is a double edge sword. Showing the power they possess does validate Storm's claim that Nyx might win the war for the ponies. But it might also backfire by making Nyx afraid of the destruction she could bring upon Equestria.

I think the key to this whole mess is in the idea that an alicorn's internal character wouldn't change just because they gained power. The fact is, it does. But Storm doesn't know that. And Nyx doesn't know that. All either of these two know is that terrible power is coming. But here's the thing: Nyx has already been Nightmare Moon, and through the effort of her own will, she gave up the power she had to rule and dominate, and turned it into a conviction to protect. Even as Nightmare Moon, Nyx defended ponykind. For all Storm or Nyx know, Nyx would simply do the same thing again as a wild alicorn. This one concept could lead to the necessary scenario... That Storm would believe the transformation is good, and that Nyx is unconvinced either way. She's caught in the middle between Storm's view and the sisters' view.

Revealing the full facts on how the transformation alters an alicorn's mind would potentially be detrimental to the plot, but a solution to this would be that it is also detrimental to preventing Nyx's transformation. This is interesting because I've established that the speed of the transformation depends on how well Nyx is connected to the mortals. If Luna were to reveal to Nyx exactly what would happen to her mind, it could very well throw her into a rapid transformation and it would be game over within days. Luna can't risk this, so she chooses to withhold that information. But at the same time, Luna must stress the urgency of finding Nyx's virtue and stopping this transformation. It's a real pickle Luna is in because she has to stress urgency about something she cannot fully explain.

And then, when things are coming to a head and Nyx is getting close to the point of no return anyway, she will get the answers straight up from Luna. This would be in that moment of her 2nd to last moral lapse, where she directly challenges the sisters and demands answers about herself and about Everfree. At that moment, Nyx gets the armor crystal, which thankfully buys her a little flexibility, holding things off a bit longer. But very soon after that moment, Nyx is captured anyway by Starfire and put into the memory orb, accelerating the transformation into its final stages.

As for Storm's plan, he's aware that extreme stress can do exactly that. That it would trigger Nyx's fight-or-flight to a degree where she would take on the power just to escape. That is the idea behind the memory orb trap in the first place. And the orb would be programmed to keep her trapped for far longer than she actually is trapped. Because she escapes early, she does not, in fact, finish the transformation. She comes out of it in the same state as Luna, having limited power of the Aether, but remaining grounded in her moral center and placing value on mortal ponies.

So I'm not quite as concerned about Nyx knowing about what the journal says at this stage of the story. I'm more concerned about what is revealed to the reader. Does this shortcut the story's mystery and plot and spoil what is to come in any way?

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Does this shortcut the story's mystery and plot and spoil what is to come in any way?

I think the Everfree section might shortcut that particular mystery. At the moment, our heroes only know that something has stirred up the Everfree and this might be too much of a reveal this early in the story. Nyxs transformation and the problems in Withersberg should be the primary focus of the story, especially with the reveal of Razor coming up soon.

The rest of it works pretty well and certainly gives her food for thought, especially concerning the sisters.

(I think my knowledge of how the story will unfold interferes at times, so I'm sorry if it's slowed things down) I guess I've been trying to get inside Nys head a bit and work out her possible reactions based on what she's seen in the journal. I was just worried about a logic snowball effect caused by Nyx getting a peek at the journal.

5277330 Good point. What I should do is have the image with the memorial but not reveal what it says, or the fact that Nyx recognized the ravine.

That way, the image of Celestia next to the barren gorge and the obelisk can serve as foreshadowing for later when we find out exactly what it all means. Good call.

New text:

Nyx flipped through a few pages until something else caught her eye. It was a barren landscape. No grass or trees or anything—just an enormous gash in the earth, creating a long chasm perhaps sixty meters wide. A white alicorn stood at the edge of the cliff, her back to the gorge. Her mane was different, but it was definitely Celestia. Her face… the depth of sadness was only matched by what Nyx had seen a mere hour earlier this very evening. Beside her, stood a large stone pillar. It was in the shape of an obelisk. There was an inscription chiseled into its base, but Nyx couldn’t make it out.

Yeah, I like that better. It's obvious foreshadowing, but it doesn't give enough details for the reader to guess what it represents yet.

And don't worry about tossing in random points of view on angles like this - that's what I need because I can't see all the angles myself. Stress testing the plot is always good for the story.

It may be time for me to pull up the master outline again and make sure everything is up to date. Maybe also get you guys involved in it to see if it flows well.

Or, maybe that can wait until act one is finished. Mostly because act one is pretty much all solid, but the rest of the story needs a good thorough analysis. I think when act one is done being drafted, it may be a good time to switch gears and get everyone involved in analyzing the flow of the rest of the story.