Hi guys. I recently acquired a Model 1861 Springfield. It is in good condition on the surface, due to being displayed for years in a home. (A friend of the family passed away, and I got the rifle. He knew that I liked it, and he had no children and was an only child.) He took good care of it, as he was a gun collector, so he knew how to maintain a gun, but he never fired it. Therein lies the problem. It is abnormally heavy in the rear, so I think it might be loaded. How can I tell?

2709870
Withdraw the ramrod and drop it slowly down the barrel in the typical fashion, with the pushing head first. Keep the muzzle pointed away from yourself as you do! There should only be about an inch of the ramrod remaining outside the barrel if the Springfield is not loaded. You should also be able to hear the metallic "jingle" of it bouncing around against the breach if it is unloaded.

If there is no jingle, and more than about three inches of ramrod stick out the end of the barrel... well, my friend, then you have a situation!

2709912 Thank you. I'll try that after dinner. Home made beef stew. I hear my plate calling me!

2709985
Check in a soon as you know either way, please. I'll wondering what you discovered/afraid that I've accidentally lead you into shooting a hole in your wall/torso the whole time.

2710029 Don't worry. I have shot black powder several times, and I know that powder, even if over 100 years old, can still go off if it hasn't been exposed to moisture. I have had a hang-fire, too. Scariest thing. I waited for about thirty seconds before it went off. Nearly knocked me on my ass. It was the second time I had fired black powder, and the first time that I had fired from a standing position, so I hadn't learned to properly brace myself. It was a good thing that there was a scout master behind me to keep me fro staggering too far back. It is dark now, so I am going to try it tomorrow, when it is light, in the empty lot next door. I'll let you know first thing.

2710242
My Sharps was the first rifle, let alone black-powder rifle, that I've ever owned. I had all sorts of nightmares, and the learning curve was sharp, but I had the great guys of my Civil War unit to help me through it.

2710260 .50-90 rifle, or Sharps Buffalo? I'm hoping to use the Springfield to hunt with, as I like a challenge, and using a semi-auto .22 long isn't a challenge. I'm a fair shot, as I can hit a bullseye at 25 yards, no scope, but, like I said, I want a challenge. It takes a while to reload, so I will have to take my time with it.

2710417
M1859 Infantry Rifle. It is supposed to be the original .56 caliber linen cartridge, but has been chambered to accept the re-enactor rounds of .58 caliber.

2716192 Makes sense. Also, we have a situation.

2716995
Uh oh!

It's kinda surprising that the previous owners maintained it, but didn't realize that it was loaded this whole time.

Okay... I've actually never dealt with this situation before. Keep it away from any highly-trafficed areas and I'll send a e-mail to some of the guys in my unit about what you should do next. Hang tight!

2721861 Well, It's not loaded. There were 6" of the ramrod sticking out.

2721971
So, it's not loaded, but there's that much of the ramrod sticking out? Do you have reason to believe that it is something other than a round?

2722262 Could it be a round that is stuck in the barrel?

2722296
That was my assumption from the beginning of this conversation. The only way to know for sure what it could be is by removing the nipple cone. I assume that you have a cone wrench, but if not then you'll have to use a pair of pliers. Next, take a very fine drill bit and, using only your fingers, not a drill, insert it down into the breach and twist. If a black powder comes out... well, then it's black powder, right? If that's the case, there's a round in there.

I can't think of any reason why someone would put anything down the tube, especially knowing that it would be so hard to get out, but if it is something else let me know the color and consistency and we'll think about it.

The guys in my unit have sent me instructions on how to remove a round from a loaded musket. If there is black powder in there, let me know and I'll send the information along.

2729915 Would a 1/8 inch bit work?

2730037
Heh, well, if you have a set of them, just start with the smallest and work your way up. All of my gun cleaning stuff ifs away for the winter, but I think I use one smaller than that.

2730152 Ok, cool.

2730152 It's black powder. I collected some of it from the breech and took it outside. I placed it on a plate of metal and used a lighter on a VERY long (9 ft) stick to light it. It burned quick and bright. A 1/16" bit did it. Thank got for modeling tools!

2737968
Well, at least we know now.

Here's the replies from the guys in my unit:

I am certainly not wiser. Praise God no one has been injured so far. This sounds pretty similar to a misfire which won't go off after being capped numerous times at an NSSA match (happened to me on the pistol range). The weapon was pointed down range and a range safety officer blew compressed air through the nipple and cleared the round. However, it was a replica firearm without 150 years of corrosion to weld the round in place. So please don't construe this as a recommendation just encouragement that it can be cleared. I have 150 year old pieces both Percussion and Flintlock in my personal collection and the touch holes initially took a lot of work to clear them. One I had to cap off after ensuring there was no round in the chamber (Hall's Carbine). Corrosion is a bear. Although, after clearance they all function well

The first thing to do is remove the powder. The safe way to do this is to pull the nipple and pour water into the
breach. A couple of flushing will wash out the powder. Use a nipple pick / drill bit to assure that the bolster hole is
open while you're doing this. The next thing is removing the ball. There are 2 ways that I know of. First is the ball puller.
This is a heavy duty worm or drill bit on a sturdy cleaning rod. The puller will dig into the ball, and give you leverage
to pull it out. Putting some soapy water down the barrel will help the ball slide out. The drill bit can do the same thing,
and could actually make a hole through the ball, leaving the skirt stuck to the side of the barrel. Care most be taken to
remove all of the pieces of the ball, as broken skirts have been know to block the bolster hole, and cause misfires, which
would take you back to the same situation you are in now.
The second way that is used a lot at the range is to again, pour in the soapy water, bolster and muzzle, and use compressed air
to eject the ball. I have seen the balls fly anywhere from 15 yards to around 60, for one really stuck. I'm not sure what PSI you
would need to blow the ball out. This is quick and will clear the ball completely, so you are much more likely to have a clear barrel
when you are done. In both cases, use a cleaning brush and a bore scraper after clearing the barrel.

Cap it and fire it.

Just kidding - You may find the above method is correct, but you may also use a light weight oil to remove the powder, this may also lubricate the ball and allow for easier extraction by worm.

That problem has been encountered from time to time and the way to disarm the piece is the same way they did back in the day: With a worm.
That is, of course, that the load is a CW era ball of soft lead. Otherwise you are looking at major surgery on the piece.

The company joker had this to say...

find a clear lake in you area
don a divers suite
have someone on shore on watch
take a cleaning rod with a worm on the end, suitable length
carefully enter the lake, while holding the loaded weapon at right shoulder shift
continue walking forward until a safe depth of 20 fathoms is reached.
enter cleaning rod into muzzle until contact is made between the worm and the powder
If a ball is discovered, retract the cleaning rod and exchange the worm for a ball extractor. I have made one from an adapter and a drywall screw
engage the worm or extractor with the powder or ball until the ball is secured or the powder is dislodged
repeat as required until either the ball is extracted or the powder is removed
lake water will appear clear, rather than black exuding from the muzzle
once safe, return from the lake bottom holding the weapon at trail arms
once on dry land, proceed to clean the cleared weapon with hot water poured from a tin coffee pot, boiled over a hickory or white oak fire fire
continue cleaning until patches come out clear with no trace of powder
oil generously with wetted patches, followed by a dry patch
Done, simple as that

In any case, I hope that helps. Stay safe at all times while doing this project!

!!!

!!!

!

Okay?

Let me know if there's anything more I can do for you from this end.

2741048 That helps very much. Is there a way to remove the barrel from the stock? It seems to me that that would help remove the powder.

2741070
My guts says that there's no real reason to remove the barrel. Remember that the tube is a single piece of metal on this weapon, the only two points of access are the cone vent and "the business end." I would be wary of taking apart anything 150 years old if I wasn't 100% certain I could get it back together again.

2741156 OK. I'm not going to mess with it, and send it to a professional.

2741168
Sounds like a good idea.

2746567 I'll let you know when I send it. Right now, I'm a little strapped for cash, so I'll do the soap-water thing at the rear of the gun. Hopefully, that will ruin the powder, so I can still display it.

2747523
Heh, I know how that is...