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Goldenwing
"I still can't wait to lose my virginity conquering Poland with Goldenwing." - /mlp/
Goldenwing
Joined 3rd Jan, 2013 ·
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New. Never gets old.
Looking forward to the assorted upcoming misadventures!
Frostwyrm
For some strange reason I get the feeling that sooner or later Dissero and his crew are going to cross paths, and they will be on opposite sides of the fence when that happens... What I'm trying to figure out is why I'm looking forward to that. Eh I'll figure it out after I get some sleep, oh and great chapter.
2049943
OH GOD FEET.
I'm going to kill my co-author for not catching that, like, two months ago.
I'm quite surprised to see such an extensive review after only reading one chapter! I admit that is definitely my worst chapter by far, due to it being my first and also being prior to taking on a rather strict editor for a few weeks. I think you'll find that they get better as you get deeper into the story, especially after chapter 4. Anyhow, thanks for the advice. You'll no doubt be pleased to hear that I've just finished reading your first chapter (quite literally, just.)
Now I've gotta go find my co-author's OC and write it into a terrible and gruesome death.
Oh, and if you find all-pony fics unattractive...
I can assure you, this is anything but an all-pony fic.
2058216
Well, that was a doozy! Response time!
I admit, the reader's connection with Dissy never even occurred to me until, about.... chapter eight-ish. I also know that emotion is my biggest problem; it was brought to my attention around chapter five and I've been focusing on adding feels since then.
As to the foreshadowing: I intentionally make it obvious because, as I think about it, that's the point of foreshadowing. Otherwise, it's not really foreshadowing. Also, it would be hard for me to mention the Breaks without it being obvious foreshadowing seeing as the whole story is about leaving Equestria, but I can see your point.
I have read Fallout Equestria and it is in fact a major inspiration for me. When I have trouble, I often look to scenes from Fo:E or Project Horizons. I also am a big fan of End of Ponies, and always hope that it will be finished.
I am pleased that you got my reference with Nix. Or at least I think you did. Final Fantasy, right? I didn't even know about Nyx until my co-author brought it up. Coincidentally, my co-author also wanted the foreshadowing with Nix and Dissy to be more obvious.
I also like Moon Dream. Poor, poor Moon Dream.
Thanks for the review! I suppose we're doing this for each chapter then? That'll be a doozy, but I'm up for it.
Golden 'I also can do middle names' Wing42
2059068 Responses to your last comment, then my review on chapter four.
The crux of foreshadowing though is that if you make it too obvious, it becomes predictable, and henceforth boring. You do have a point though that you had to bring up The Breaks as part of the story, and part of foreshadowing 101 is that you have to bring something up, even if it's ambiguous or shrouded, in order to allude to it coming into play in the future. So at least you have the establishment down and avoid the amateur error of pulling things out of your ass. On the flip-side, if you over-play it, again... obvious = predictable ≥ boring. Or at the very least, there's no surprise, so even if it's still good, it can be a bit of a let down.
This isn't limited to just your story, this is just a rule of writing in general. For example, The Games We Play actually has this problem. Even considering it's an otherwise stellar fiction, fully deserving of its EqD five-star rating, and so good in fact it's actually changed my perspective on life and relationships, but one of it's major devices of mystery and intrigue is blown way too early, and becomes so painfully obvious that I found myself growing impatient for Dash to learn what I'd figured out eleven chapters ago. (I have to admit though that the build-up was still so fantastic that the climax still had it in spades when Dash learns the truth.)
Like you said in your review of 'What If...' remember that the audience is going to be actively putting all these pieces together as they're reading; they're not stupid... unless we're talking about the dolts who keep funding more Fast and the Furious movies with their blithering, repeated theater attendance.
Want an amusing rant? Flag down Brian (older brother/co-writer) on the rare occasion he's on and ask him why he hates those movies so much, and watch him go for ten minutes about everything he loathes in those films. The fact that he understands good story-telling as much as he does (as 'Waiting for a Train on Mobil Avenue' will prove) and that he makes his living as an auto mechanic just makes his hate that much more legit.
I've gotten off topic.
I got that the name Phoenix Down is a Final Fantasy reference, but I didn't get that Nix was supposed to make it a double FF ref. (Alluding to the summon in FFXIII, right?) And the one about Nyx threw me for a total loop, because I didn't know if this was supposed to be rooted deep in the future of the Past Sins universe or... what. I'd have brought it up last time, but there are only so many things I can cover in a message that takes to hours to write.
So it would seem. I left that first review just to prove that I'd actually started reading, but it didn't feel appropriate to only review the first chapter. So I guess we are doing a chapter by chapter review on each others' story. Huh. This is a first for me too.
Which brings me to my review for chapter four... wow, holy sh
t, color me impressed, you weren't kidding; it really does pick up in this chapter. In fact, you've almost left me without anything to complain about... almost. Though even the things that I can still gripe about are just issues I've already complained about and that you clearly seem to have addressed, because it just comes across as a weak spot as opposed to feeling like I'm being assaulted with giant stalks of celery that went rancid and slimy months ago.
Should probably get that out of the way first, but at this point, it's not as much an issue and it'd be almost redundant to keep bringing it up. Yeah, I've still got a disconnect with Dissy, and you already know it by now. Still around mostly just to be a camera head and still a wasted opportunity or two to get some development or an attachment out of him by making us feel what he feels instead of just flat-out telling us. A big one is him grieving the loss of Moon Dream; there could've been this great way of eliciting the feels from the reading by getting us to feel Dissy sorrow by getting front-row seats to his connection to Moon. Alas, all we get is, "I cried almost every day the first week."
I also feel there was a bit of a missed opportunity for further fleshing out the rest of the cast by showing them during a little bit of down time; like the poker game from chapter two, but instead setting the mood for the concern and uncertainty in the face of venturing into the unknown without the supplies or equipment to safely do so. This also could've been a great way to further mesh Phoenix into the crew, but I'm guessing they'll be plenty of that to come. Still would've been nice here. It's just a stylistic preference, and I think we've established that my style can be summarized as 'use more words.'
But these are actually just minor issues, and the chapter as a whole is, to be honest, pretty damn good. In fact, I'm rather floored by how it's so abruptly gone from something that I was having to force myself to trudge through almost just out of courtesy to something that I actually enjoyed, and find myself looking forward to more. The interaction between the crew members is top-notch and gives the impression that they're all very acclimated to each other. Even though I would've liked to see it drawn out further, I really get the sense that a lot of time has passed just going over all the things that they end up doing during their week on the ship, and the weight of that time does have some substance even considering you don't go over in thoroughly. You've gotten better at learning how to show over tell, and this shines even in simple places like when you reveal a bit more of Ember's pyromania when she lites that bird up.
Even Dissero has improved. While he's still a stone's throw or two from really drawing me in, his exposition/narration is much better written and isn't tripping over itself from how awkward and fumbling it is. He's becoming more of a legitimate character, even considering that when he said "I felt useless," my thoughts were; "Much like you've been for this entire story.
" So far. But he is improving.
Well, we've got our fic title!
And look; we've even got Chekhov's Guns! And they're actually guns! Isn't that dandy?
Furthermore, you do a great job of immersing me in the setting. I really got a sense of what it's like to be on this ship and for the kinds of things to come, notably with the 'Welcome to the Outer World; Now Die, Mofos' welcoming committee.
Oddly enough, my favorite part about this chapter is actually the encounter with the fish. In that one shot scene you perfectly emphasize the unknown dangers of the Outer World, both with the abrupt appearance of the threat and the threat itself, and it does so without Dissero pointing out how dangerous it is. In fact, this is actually a very good use of the first person perspective. Through his eyes, I can see myself on the command deck of the ship, looking at this ungodly massive monster of a fish, glaring at me hatefully as I have a "... holy shit, we could've just been eaten" moment. Well done, really. I'm impressed.
Keep this up, and I might actually have to add this story to my favorites.
- Christian 'Enjoy 'Chaos Lives in Everything,' sucker' Harisay
2093543
Aww, shucks. Stop it, you.
Nix has nothing to do with Nyx from Past Sins. My co-author actually pointed out to me that I had a character who seemed to be from Past Sins and asked me if I did it on purpose. I didn't.
Though, I did consider making Moon Dream a distant direct descendant of Nyx to explain his unusually dark coat. In the end, I didn't put it in because, well, it'd be pointless and was hard to get in there. Although my fic's universe is largely original, it is most similar to the timeline established in the Hearth's Warming Eve tale.
I think you'll find that my writing gets better over time. This is heavily dependent on things people have told me as I write. A friend pointed out after reading chapter 4 that my fic lacked emotion, so I started to focus on that (you'll see it really come into play at the end of 5). Later on someone mentioned having trouble connecting to Dissy, and I've been trying to work that in too.
One of my big problems with this fic is making sure that Dissy isn't too effective during these initial stages, but at the same time not making him more of a total wimp than he actually is.
I wouldn't call those Chekhov's Guns, though... they're more like a way to keep the crew alive without stretching the reality of my fic. A crutch, you could say.
I think this reviewing thing is going to be a lucrative relationship for both of us.
Golden 'I think you'll find Ch 5 to be a doozy' Wing42
I don't have time to read this right now, but I'm adding this to favourites because it seems right up my street.
2093543
Finally! Someone else who can attest to the 'twist' in 'The Games We Play' being unbelievably obvious. When I first started reading I honestly thought that we (the readers) were supposed to know the secret identity. I had no idea that it was supposed to be a mystery, and I was shocked even more that people were guessing incorrectly and/or being blown away by the so-called 'revelation'. Still one of the best fics I've read, though.
1985207
*Comes onto random fic out of curiosity. Sees Prolet*
Well... It's a small world after all!
2110544
Oh yeah, Cleaver's always fine when he has vodka.
At least, that's worked so far. He hasn't been outside Equestria before.
2110786
If by intentional, you're asking if I meant to use "hay" instead of "hey"...
then yes.
2110888
I think she might scorch you if you tried that. Caution. Flammable substances.
2112869
Oh, but why not? Blood is cute. Adorable. In a creepy, annoying little sadistic sister kind've kleptomaniac way.
I didn't even see that. >> Time to write a gruesome death for my editor's favorite character!
Glad you're enjoying the fic! I'm surprised that you made those two pieces of fanart after only having read one chapter. I mean gee. I think you might be my biggest fan.
I'm going to have to re-read the chapter to find the physics reference, but by Celestia's curly beard I definitely found the gaming reference. So out of curiosity does Dissero now have more lives than a bag of cats? Also, great chapter please keep up the good work.
2116560
I'll give you a hint: it's something that Trick says.
And no, Dissy doesn't have all those lives because he didn't follow the cheat right. He got lost, remember? Silly Dissy.
Also, there's a special treat for you in Ch13. Remember how you mentioned Dissy and the crew being at odds when they reunited? Hehe... it got me thinking...
Let's just say you changed the plot abit there...
How much money do I get if I were to correctly say the city's called New New. Yo dawg I heard you like names...and there's a gun in my face. 'S cool.
And...bear and wolf slavery? Indentured servitude? Tempting fate, much?
"What were the chances that every griffon in the Outer World was out to get me, anyways?" Same question for you, Dissero. ಠ_ಠ
"Wolves sat together in small groups, discussing recent news and watching passerby." Watching others pass by? Watching passively? Watching women and whistling like mad? I just don't know daddy-o.
The Hub. It can happen! It being...violent and painful death. ಠ_ಠ
"each standing at one of five streets, and each staring eachother down." Each other is two words. I can almost hear the screaming already.
...is it bad that I laughed hard when Trick turned out to be a whore? Boy oh boy Dissero I hope your charms don't land you in deeper doodoo than you're already in.
So what do I think about the chapter? Interesting stuff. Exe was a bro, which is funny. I wrote that -REDACTED- before reading this chapter so I found it really...something...when he appeared. Great minds think alike or am I being presumptuous? Anyway, one more chapter to go.
and Patience.Exe has stopped working. Hmm, where did I put my seppuku sword...
.
You described this as a comic relief chapter. To me, it was anything but. This is the first chapter that seriously annoyed me, but that might be a good thing. A reader's reaction is better than no reaction at all, and it's even better when the reaction isn't just "I like this, keep going." With that said, I'll go into detail about what I thought about this chapter and the story as a whole.
First off: Dissero's part in all of this.You know, after going through as much shit as Dissero's gone through and sitting through a terrible poker game and then being jerked around in a plan I had no idea what role I played, I would have just left. Is Dissero too much of a nice guy or does his complex about being useless make him strive for any bit of praise and acceptance where he can get it? Even if said praise and acceptance came from a trio comprised of two career criminals and a whore?
Secondly: his aversion to killing. I get it, but he has no one to blame but himself. He should have known better than to have wandered into the alley with a stranger, especially in the Outer World. Hell, even the wilderness can be safer than a big city. I really hope Dissero cuts ties with those recusants, pronto. They seem all nice and friendly but they blatantly manipulated him and used him. To anyone with a brain, that's a friendship-sinker right there.
But maybe Dissero does have that complex of his.
Thirdly: You just don't shoot someone with good intentions. Even if the hit isn't instantly fatal, it can easily kill over time. If not, then it can cripple the target for life. This is especially true for arrows; which unlike bullets, can't be removed the way they go in without causing even more damage.
So in his effort to be merciful, he ruined the lives of dozens of griffons and participated in the slaughter of dozens more because he was the dumbs. Ain't that life?
So my thoughts on Omega;
It is a really good dark take on FiM with the steampunk/crapshire world being an awesome setting. Its main character...has his merits. But then he fucks up like he did in the last few chapters and you can't help but feel pressing disappointment in him. This is good. If he can recover from one of his lowest lows, then I would be glad to continue reading.
"Son, I am disappoint, but I am willing to see you improve. So you better fucking improve, you little shit! D:<"
Footnote: "The other stallions rose their voices, quickly talking over her as they expressed their approval of the new betting chip." Raised?
2122268
Dissy helped them for two reasons:
1. He's just a nice fellow who kind've lacks real backbone, especially in the presence of people who kill like they do
2. They didn't really give him a chance to say no. He just got kind've caught up in all of it.
Also, I don't think this is at all his lowest low. He doesn't even have any real power yet. Hell, he's hardly seen anything.
2122502
Hasn't seen anything yet. Oh dear...
2122573
Yes, he's still on the west coast. The west coast is much more tame than the rest of the Outer World, due to vicinity to and trade with Equestria.
Just wait till the Animus get some more story time.
2122649
Will there be more ghost orbs/obelisks to look forward to as well? :P
2122660
Yes, they're actually very important, though only that one in particular comes in orb form.
You'll see what they are in about 3 or 4 chapters. Total Chekhov's Gun.
2122688
Sweet. Looking forward to it. (Sorry for the long delay. Was busy drawing some more art.)
2095443 Gah, my apologizes for the extensive delay. Been busy with work, daily necessities, working on a new painting, and I just had my youngest brother over for a weekend to see In Flames. Because we f
cking LOVE In Flames.
That's what I thought, but then that brings up an issue with the timeline; Moon mentions that Nyx is his quadruple-plus great grandmother (and that the black coat is hereditary because of her), so that gave me the impression that this takes place in the future, but then you said this is based off the Hearth's Warming Eve timeline, but then does that mean it takes place in the past or...
Grunt is befuddled... and me not even know what 'befuddled' mean!
Anyway, I did figure that this was a 'steel thyself' story for Dissero, and I just felt like making a Chekhov's Gun joke. Our writing gets better the more we learn, too; you just read ahead into parts we haven't polished up yet.
Okay, onto my review. I actually read this chapter a while ago, it's just that like I said, I've been busy.
I liked the little flashback at the beginning; gives some depth into Dissero's character with an appropriately timed flashback, and one that isn't dependent for the story to continue. Nice move, by the way; I usually hate it when a story relies on them. (And I mean hate.)
When you mentioned the sound of hooves, I thought you were going to go with a more exotic approach and use something like hippogriffs. A little unsure of these so-called Recusants. By the way, what was with the decision to have the watered-down profanity for the first few chapters and then throw it out the window with Outer World? Going for some juxtaposition there?
Am I reading this right; he's been stuck with them for weeks? Where the Hell is the rest of his crew? Didn't they go looking for him?
*checks on the crew of Omega*
Oh... that explains it.
*deep inhale* Mmm, I love the smell of foreshadowing in the morning.
Okay, I get it.
I do have a few other little problems with the chapter. For one, it says he's been there for weeks, but it doesn't really feel like weeks since it brushes over so quickly. And is it really appropriate to first-person narrate Dissero checking out some of these mares? Bit of an atmosphere-killer if you're going for being on-edge in a hostile and alien environment. Oh, and giving any credit to Baron with these 'at least's isn't doing him any favors in establishing him the main antagonist, especially when we didn't even see him during that entire poorly-written year that they were in slavery.
Overall, it's not badly written; much better than chapters two and three (a bit below four), but it could use some tightening in the nuts and bolts in places. It does do some things right, like presenting the bandit faction and giving some good depth and variety to the characters, from the short-tempered bastard, Blitz, to the surprisingly cordial Hunter. And oddly enough, though it doesn't outright say it, I'm left with the suspicious feeling that these equines are some of the closest beings to 'good guys' that we'll ever see out here.
But I've got to say, save for the language, this story has been relatively tame for mature standards; most we've seen so far has been Silver getting crippled, a shot-up pony, and Moon Dream getting 'killed' (still don't think he's dead; never saw a body), but it hasn't really played up to that gory benchmark like you said it would.
*gets to the last thousand words*
.
..
...
i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/353/279/e31.jpg
Holy f
ck.
Blood is now reminding me of a cross between Red Velvet, Pinkie's evil clone from the ungodly long Crisis: Equestria, and of the murderous Pinkie Pie that Red velvet was based off of from a fan fiction that I shall not do justice by calling it by name but that you now instantly know what I'm taking about... Red Velvet and Pinkie in the fic that shall not be named are two characters I don't like to be reminded of. Really puts a much more chilling retrospective thinking back to all the times that Blood was staring at Dissero and the rest of the comments from the bandits about her; nice job with the fridge horror there.
But then it drops the ball a bit with the whole 'Colonel confiding in Dissy' part. This story establishes her as tough, no-nonsense, ends justify the means when the means equals survival type character. She says it herself, she doesn't believe in good bad bad anymore. But then when she admits to Dissero that she's an old mare, filled with regret; waiting to die alone, it just seems to jar with her character... especially when she says she spends every night wishing she could take it back, or worse, kill herself. That doesn't really seem cohesive for her character design, and it especially doesn't seem feasible that someone like her would contemplate suicide... and that kind of information isn't something you just up and share with a pansy-assed softy that you've only known for a few weeks.
Maybe you're trying to play her as the anti-hero who's got more good in them than they give themselves credit for. but even if that's the case, I still feel it's overplayed... like, way, way overplayed. Hell, I feel bad for bringing this up, but I thought Grief by LunaUsesCaps dealt with the issue of a character having thoughts of suicide as a secret better than this did.
I take that back; I feel awful for bringing up Grief, because that story was f
cking awful.
And that's my review. Now I venture onwards into the dangerous territory of chapter six... and you've got another segment of an over-written, unedited swamp to slog through now.
- Christian 'Make me understand you're there for me' Harisay
2140811
I'll just be solid, here. It's in the future. Roughly 200 years, or so. Also, it's not based on the Hearth's Warming timeline, it is similar to it; to be more specific, the Hearth's Warming timeline is what all the Equestrians think is true, but the historians skipped something rather important. Oh, and when I say based on, I mean that's the backstory.
The recusants are a rather important part of the world. Their presence will be explained later. Also, feel free to look up recusant; it's a word! My co-author suggested it.
(They were originally far ponies, which in retrospect is quite stupid)
The rest of the crew... well, you'll see in chapter seven. They were considered, and it was decided that finding a pony after he falls off an airship, in the aftermath of the hardest battle (and for most of them only) they've ever fought, in an unknown land, is difficult. Especially when said pony gets picked up within a day.
The Baron, for the record, is not the main antagonist. He's abit too small scale.
You are correct in your suspicions. With the exception of a select few others, that clan of murdering, thieving bandit recusants is about as close to good as it gets. Lucky Dissy.
I am quite proud of the bit with Blood. That little scene at the end is a hint of what is to come, and a brief display of just how cruel I intend for the Outer World to get. I don't recall Colonel contemplating suicide... hang on, lemme check... oh, I see it. It's not that she's suicidal as much as she regrets her actions so much that, in retrospect, she would've let herself die instead of going through with it again.
As far as she's concerned, it's too late for her. She puts on a strong face so that she can do all the things she doesn't want her clan to have to do, such as the interrogations.
Her confiding in him, as well as her making him watch, is a warning. She recognizes his innocence and values it as something she no longer has. As the very motherly figure she is to those under her care, being one of the few good-hearted people in the Outer World, she hopes she can motivate him to get back to Equestria while he still can. At least, with his sanity.
He won't of course. Colonel is written to be a sort of living prophecy of what he himself is going to become.
Enjoy chapter six!
Golden 'Dead Space 3 is fun' Wing
Yee ha! Now we're getting somewhere! Things are getting intense!
Yeeesss!
Damn you and your mid-sentence cliffhangers. I know those are fairly common from one write, but for the love of me I can't remember his name. Oh well.
Beautiful as always. I like how Dissero isn't OP. I half expected him to be, seeing as I treated his time in the wilderness as a training montage. I'm too used to OP characters.
Anyway. You had better not have a chapter gap like that again. It was painful, man.
You won't hear me complain, this chapter delivered in spades. Also seeing this story had updated just as I got off work, even better. Now I have to go back and re- read it again.
2215150
That they are. The first driving force behind the plot has finally been introduced!
2216396
But I like mid-sentence cliffhangers.
Dissy is still rather weak by Outer World terms. He's currently at the level where wild animals usually don't kill him, but luckily he has Exe for more serious issues. I'm usually more worried about making him underpowered than overpowered when I write, because that's the direction I always lean to.
You may want to read my latest blog post. >>
2217293
Your bright Pinkie Pie smile warms my heart.
What was your favorite part? Mine was the flashback. I enjoyed writing that.
2219007
I do agree that the flashback helps flesh out Dissero in a way that lets the reader get a glimps into his inner workings and hidden mechanisms, also the feels
. As for me, I'm always a sucker for a good fight scene. You managed to get the pacing of the fight so that it felt like everything was happening in quick succession all while keeping it unencumbered with extranious detail.
There was one little tid bit that I almost missed but has caused me to stop and re- evaluate my opinion of that characters motivation: “Half off for you, old friend. Go redeem yourself,”
That right there hints at a very detailed and troubled back story which frankly I can't wait to see what it is.
Wait, The Hub?
I lol'd.
NOOOOOO. Damn cliffhangers.
Can't wait for the next chapter. ^^
I find this fic, and it's great. So I keep reading it. I get to chapter 12 on google docs, seeing as where I print from (since I tend to print these so I can read them whenever) only allows google docs, and nobody has permission to read from docs. That's fine, I'll just read chapter 12 on fimfic. What's that? Only one more chapter? Well, surely another will be out soon, and another and another until the fic is done. What's that? The author is going over the fic and revising?
That simultaneously hurts and heals me, bro. I gotta wait for the new chapters and re-read all the old ones. It's nice that things will be fleshed out to be their best, but it kinda sucks that I gotta wait a bit more for another chapter. I'm not sure how badly I'll want to read all the previous chapters again, because I'll already know what happens in the future, thus sorta ruining the joy and surprise of reading while simultaneously having all the old stuff semi-conflict-ery with the new additions.
I dunno, do your thing. I'll read it anyways. Sorry for the /rant. Still a great fic.
2257214
Do not worry, my friend. I've thought about you.
Not personally. But, like, people with your problem.
All the changes I make will be summed up in a neat-o blog post, spoiler boxes and all. That way, you won't have to go back and re-read to familiarize yourself with all the changes, if you don't want to. It's all convenient and stuff.
Glad to hear you like my fic! Thanks for mentioning that Ch. 12 is unreadable. That was not at all intentional.
Share and Enjoy.
2220282 Hey, guess what? It might seem like three weeks since my last chapter review, but it's only been several hours for me! You see, this pony showed up in a blue call booth and dragged me on an adventure to help this scrawny boy with the head of a horned owl out of a labyrinth filled with mutant twistentacles... okay, I'm just a lazy bastard.
Actually no; I've been busy. Put more work into chapter five, edited the prelude with none other than Vimbert the Unimpressive as our lead editor, and I've started touching up chapter one.
Oh, and I saw Sevendust live in concert last week, and I spent a good deal of time painting this for them:
th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/087/7/d/sevendust_nightmare_moon___black_out_the_sun_by_da__master-d5zk1ph.jpg
Also going to start filming the footage for our (Joseph and I) video review of 'The Crystal Empire' this weekend, as some sort of personal therapy for how awful it was. (Which since you mentioned not seeing what was so bad about it, we bring up plenty of reasons to hate it; like bad retroactive continuity, terrible use/misuse of the cast, several jarring plot holes, idiot balls galore, an insipidly dismal villain, and hands-down the worst thing I have seen in the entire series... for starters.) And I swear I will get to looking at your edits... eventually. I could probably look at them after this chapter, if you wanted.
Anyway, going back to your previous comment, it does take a bit of the flare from the characters knowing they've been lifted from other mediums, though since I can't directly trace them back to their origins, I suppose credit is due to you in that regard... probably more than we deserve. The main antagonist in our story admitted has a lot in common with the villain from another medium, but we have been putting a ton of thought into how to make him stand out in his own right. He's actually quite a fun character to write, but incidentally he's also the hardest one to write for.
I've gotten off topic.
I said it was a spoiler when you said Dissero isn't going to make it out of the Outer World as the same pony who went in. Granted, that is kind of obvious, as it is with other stories like Fallout: Equestria where it's clear right from the start that this adventure will change Little Pip, but, still...
Finally getting to this chapter.
You know, considering the looks Pyre and Faerie had been shooting Dissy pretty much since they first saw him, I knew something was going to go down... I just hadn't pictured it going down like that. This is a tad unrelated, but it's moments like this I realize just how incomprehensible I find female's sexual desires to be.
And that is precisely one of the reasons why I don't drink.
So going hunting with Hunter is pretty cool; gert some screen time for one of the less developed recusants, and we get to explore Outer World more. But as 'Over a Barrel' showed us, aren't dear in Equestria sentient? I know this isn't Equestria, but...
Didn't really get to think about it much, because Outer World reveals more of it's cards when f
cking velociraptors show up out of nowhere, A storm belt, real big fish, raiders, and a clan of equines with issues not selling the 'this place is dangerous' aspect enough? Well then, add f
cking velociraptors
Not enough? When then, have a wurm!
There is something that I should point out though, and that is it's not exactly clear what Dissero is fighting until Hunter kills it the only description we get is it's mouth and it's horrid stench, but other than tha- This funeral scene was nicely done; nice to see the crew of Omega after they've been gone from sight since chapter four. Seeing each of them handle coming to terms with Dissero's (supposed) death really gave each one more unique depth. Cleaver's funeral dirge was really good; painting the somber emotion in his respects really brought me in. And I should have suspected Silver would take it pretty hard. But there is one problem, thought... it's placement is the most jarring and awkwardly edited insertion of a scene that I have ever read. It's a good scene, but it just shows up out of nowhere, while Dissy is fighting a wurm, says its peace, then goes back to Dissy. Why? Just- ...t, I have no idea what he's fighting. It could've been a T=Rex for all I knew; you did mention it had scales, but other than that, not much. With Mr Fish, I knew it was a leviathan. With this... watch out for stuff like that in the future.
All in all, decent chapter. Good for adding flavor into Outer World, and it just makes me wonder what the Hell else is out there.
'Til next time... five weeks sound good to you?
- Christian 'Sarcastic & Satirical' Harisay
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I enjoy giving spoilers, of the thought-provoking variety. Like, for example, when I say that this is foreshadowing for the future, I enjoy making my readers wonder what it all means. So the obvious 'spoilers' I give out freely.
Yes, those mares are just horny is all. Fresh meat, y'know? They have fangs. Girls with fangs are always kinky.
It's interesting that you say Hunter is less developed. He's actually one of the more important recusants. It'll be something to consider for the rewrites. Also, Over A Barrel portrays buffalo as sentient, not deer; deer have been shown to be nonsentient, if you look at how Fluttershy interacts with them. (Here's a fun fact: those deer are also carnivorous)
Ah, the velociraptors. Me and my co-author spent a good time debating on what should happen on the hunt. We knew it had to go wrong, and we knew there would be a wurm involved, but how? In the end, we decided on raptors. Yay, raptors.
The reason I put the funeral scene there is because I was trying to put in some suspense to it all, and I wanted to show some way of time passing without writing him dodging attacks over and over all just merely saying "time passed." Plus, having his crew mourn him as it seems he is about to die after all seemed cool to me. If Dissy wasn't the protagonist, he might've actually died or been critically wounded right there.
I should also mention that the west coast of the Outer World (where Dissy is), is relatively tame compared to the rest of it.
Thanks for the notes; I'll be sure to refer to them when I write the 2nd edition.
- Golden 'LoL Reference' Wing
Alright, you posted this in the Writer's Group, and it took me this long to get around to it.
With regards to your question... you're missing the hook in the first chapter. The actual plot hook doesn't seem to happen until about halfway through chapter 2, and there's a good wad of exposition which could probably be scooted around to fit the hook in at the end of chapter 1. I mean, they get the package, but that's not really a hook. They're picking up a job. Something that's about to happen BECAUSE they picked up the package can be a hook.
Similar problems tend to repeat themselves throughout the story. Exposition where it isn't really needed, and a lack thereof where it could probably be used. (Namely, your merciless time-skip of slavery time. While I can understand that slavery wouldn't be much to write about, just skipping a whole year of time with "and then we did slave things for a whole year" is a bit cheap, to my mind.)
Not to mention it feels like you can't decide what kind of story this is going to be, skipping from slavery to the resucant clan, and now the city, introducing seemingly significant characters all the way. The baron is an okay sorta villain, but at such a great range and with so little personal connection to Dissero, it feels like he doesn't have much impact at all.
And then there's the general setting of the world: there isn't much worldbuilding to show how the Baron's city fits in with Equestria (And how such a pit of cruelty escapes Celestia's notice against a backdrop of love and tolerance), and Dissero's name, which is rather out of place and breaks the theme.
I dunno. It's still early days yet as far as the plot seems to be concerned, and we may see a return of all these characters you've introduced, and it's earned a follow from me, but it was a hard start.
This goes on Read Later. And unlike the other 96 stories there, it will actually get read sometime soon!
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Well, that was unexpected.
Did the synopsis catch your interest?
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Yes, that is the main reason. The other reason is the fact that this is your only story so far, and people seem to like it, so... I will read this at a time when I'm not confined to a mobile device.
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Oh, cool.
Whatever you do, don't judge the fic by the first three chapters.
They're also the first things I've ever written, and aren't nearly as good as the rest of it. I'm rewriting them now, actually.
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Oh, I don't judge a story until the fourth chapter anyway. If it doesn't catch my attention by then, I won't read the rest of it at all.
2345356 I feel obligated to clarify that when I said I'd see you again in five weeks, I swear that I was joking.
I'd give you the whole spiel about all the things I've been preoccupied with, both the relevant and the useless crap, but that would just take more time to type out. All I will say is that I found a lovely gif that describes me and my brothers just a little too well...
i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6909257984/hDB67B1D6/
Picking up from where we left off, I do agree that foreshadowing is a neat and nifty method to tie your whole story together so you not just pulling things out of your ass, and the level of which you foreshadow a given plot point can determine how much of a surprise it is. But saying that ambrosia is going to be involved in the story eventually, that tells me that it's going to have a major involvement, since consumables that perpetuate immortality is a pretty big deal, and now I can at least speculate that such items will be a goal that will be strived for, whether by the protagonists or the yet to be revealed big bad. Or both, and those two conflicting parties eventually intertwine at the end like in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, or something. Nothing definitive, but you see what I mean.
Wait; ambrosia; the sustenance of Olympians...
Food For The Gods...
FUCK YES, YOU LEAD ME STRAIGHT TO IT.
Anyway, onwards with this long overdue comment on chapter eight.
The griffon raid comes a bit out of the blue, but then I figured that it probably has ties to the griffon that Blood ripped to pieces (with a cheeriness that makes my skin crawl... I'll have you know that I learned as much about it as I could from outside sources so that way I wouldn't actually have to read the infamous Cupcakes, but there that scene is anyway...), or perhaps even the scouting party that Omega crew ran into. That, or the unexpected nature is just supposed to illustrate how unstable the Outer World is.
The interactions that Dissero has with the other recusants are good, the cut-to editing for both the disorienting flashbacks during the battle and the scene with the Omega crew again are much better, and I actually found the moment where Dissero is hiding in the rocks and afraid that the griffons have found him to be pretty tense. Though I have to wonder the wisdom of the griffon's use of eagle familiars; you've established an eagle call as a cue for the reader/protagonists to prepare for shit about to get real, but it ruins the element of surprise.
Dissero's internal dialogue here is pretty good, and demonstrates how much Outer World has changed him. By sheer irony, I've been catching up on the episodes from the last season of Survivor while I read this chapter, and being stuck with no foreseeable escape in a harsh environment, filled with cutthroats and criminals and where literally all the wildlife is out to kill you, just makes those moments where one of the weaker-willed castaways has a breakdown moment over some infinitesimal issue makes said weakling look all the more pathetic.
(By the way, I Googled "Dissero" out of curiosity; is his name supposed to mean "dire?")
And bunnies. FUCKIN' BUNNIES. God, even the cute wildlife is out if kill you. If this is the future, Fluttershy is rolling over in her grave right now.
And it's cool that we get to see the Omega crew again, and more guns (Chekhov would be proud), and I can't help but laugh that Storm pretty much invented Equestria's first prototype Wunderwaffle. But if there is one issue to be had, it's that there's more tell instead of show here. It would've been more effective to show what a hard-ass Ember has become instead of just telling us, better to give the reader some time with Silver during his moping to show how hard losing Dissero hit him, and why didn't you show us when they went into town? That could've had enough material to be a whole entire chapter by itself. And if it was going into this unnamed settlement that spurred Ember to the notion that they should make themselves hired guns, shouldn't there be a little more development than what we were given. Showing the going to town scene could've been subverted by implying that some sort of noodle incident occurred there and that's why we didn't see it, but as is it seems like an undeveloped thread.
Overall, not bad, and I'm curious to see if the mercantile life of Omega crew eventually runs into the clan life of Dissero.
2107813 Yeah, The Games We Play is still a fantastic story, even though by chapter eleven it should be obvious to anyone with a brain stem who Mare Do Well is. I've heard Absolute try to handwave this by saying that she wanted Dash and the mare playing MDW to have some intimate ground between them so their relationship can survive after the reveal, but that just means that we have to wait for Dash to learn what the rest of us figured out nine chapters ago.
IMO, the scene in chapter 11 that makes Mare-Do Well's identity a dead give-away should have been downplayed, and Dash's relationships with all her friends should have gotten some equally intimate (albeit not romantic) moments, so that way even as she's getting closer to them in some aspects, she's simultaneously getting further away because she can't tell if the two of them are actually having a moment or if they're just trying to play her. That could've made the conflict even more mind-wracking, and the reveal of who Mare Do Well actually is an even bigger mindfuck.
Which reminds me; I still need to go back and read that story again so I can leave one of my trade-mark, ass-numbing long critiques of it.
By the way, Golden, don't you still owe me a review?
- Christian 'Whoracolt' Harisay
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I am happy to say that your interpretation of my hint is almost completely wrong, but right in an indirect kind of way. Yay, mystery!
The griffon raid is, correctly, tied to the one that Blood tortured. As a matter of fact, if that griffon had given up the information, the clan would've moved away before the attack even happened.
Dissero's name is supposed to have meaning in both Italian and Latin. I used this to find it initially, by translating some English words I thought matched him into Latin and picking the coolest sounding result. The Italian meaning was a happy coincidence. If you pay attention to things, you'll actually find that I use other languages for lots of naming, and the attentive reader can get hints on things from the translations.
I think I'll probably put the town scene into the rewrite; giving the crew more screen time during these chapters is a priority of mine. I'll be sure to take those four paragraphs full of tell right before Storm introduces the lightning gun and change them into show during those new scenes.
And yes, I owe you a review, but don't worry. I started reading your third chapter yesterday, and I'm reviewing the whole thing in one go! So soon it will be you who owes me, because your chapters are worth like four of mine.
A-ha! Engarde!
-Golden 'Scatman' Wing
2581672 If it turns out that I was completely wrong about the ambrosia thing on every aspect except there being In Flames references galore to be had, I swear, if In Flames and I are ever in the same town as you, I'm dragging you to the show along with me.
... Where do you live, anyway?
Now I'm going to be dumping every word that looks foreign to the English language into Google translate in an attempt to glean any hidden information out of it.
Anyway, onward to chapter nine.
Oh hey, it's Robber Baron! Wow, we haven't seen this guy since... since... uh... damn, this really has been the first scene he's gotten in the entire story, hasn't it? I think you just pulled a overly-fashionably-late-bad-guy thing ala The Third Man style, with the lead villain not showing up until halfway through the movie. Now I'm going to imagine Baron as a pony characterized by a young Orson Wells for the rest of this story.
For some reason, I'm reminded of another FiM antagonist that didn't really show up until about halfway through the story, but to make that comparison would be just plain rude.
Just out of curiosity, I counted, and the first line of dialogue Baron has contains thirty-seven words. Sheer word-count along with the depth and character establishment that line lends, and he's already a better villain than... never mind.
Hey, wait; did I miss something in chapter four about the ship, because I don't remember them coming across anything about it that made it special... certainly not so special that Baron is inevitably going to follow the crew into Outer World to take it back. For that matter, we haven't yet really gotten what Baron's angle is yet; I'm sure it'll come up eventually, but... And how is he keeping his entire operation hidden from the likes of Celestia and Luna? That'd have to be a fuckload of officials he'd have to bribe, and are all of them really bought out so easily? Hell, for that matter, I just realized that chapters two and three never really gave us an idea of what exactly the crew's enslavement was supposed to serve. I imagine that this will tie into the Baron's ultimate goal (if he has one), but for all those chapters clued us in on what the crew was made to labor on, they might as well have been chained together and forced to march in lines for no apparent reason. Sort of like... God damn it, I'm not going to say it.
I'm not at as much a liberty to go into an extensive criticism over this, as this chapter was written before I pointed out this issue with developmental gaps, but including a scene that shows Omega crew getting their first contract might be expedient to include to the list of scenes to add, too.
This is where my Michael Crichton style of writing is really starting to show; leave no segment of the story arch unwritten. As if the research entries weren't a glaring indication of that trait as it is.
By the way, I'm going to start a chapter-by-chapter countdown until Team Omega is contracted to hit the Stygian Clan. If that wasn't them already.
It's a bit funny how you were just wailing on me for using both showing and telling in my writing, because I noticed a few instances where you did the exact same thing: Baron dealing with Apricot, Sliver going ballistic and Nix pulling the reins on him, and I'm pretty sure there was another one somewhere. Not as bad as I probably had it, but just because I've got logs in my eyes doesn't mean I can't see the wood in yours.
The scenes with Dissero are good though, so congrats on that. You capture the paranoid edge and ominous atmosphere of being out in the unfamiliar wastes of the Outer World well, which I imagine was the goal of those scenes, so well done.
Armed bears? What, has Dissero run in Beorn? Or Dovahbear?
So that's... wait; I just realized that it hasn't been at least three weeks since my last review.
This feels wrong somehow.
- Christian 'A Better Antagonist Than King Sombra' Harisay
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Gee, you're really picking up the pace, aren't you? Well, let's see here...
I figured that Nix shot the wolf out of panic, as she tends to see the gun as a "Oh shit I'm in trouble pull the trigger and everything will be okay" kind of thing. She panics even more after the bullet fails to do much because that was pretty much her last hope and it failed. Also, I wanted to show how tough those two 'raiders' were. (not really raiders but... you'll see)
Exe honestly just has shitloads of time to spare. He probably went and did something... or something. I dunno.
They are reasons for all of the unexplained things you mention here. Some of these reasons are simple and unimportant, like how the rabbits are carnivorous because they pretty much have to be, for self-defense if nothing else. Exe's slaying of that wolf pack was to show his skill and combat prowess; I also mentioned how the wolves didn't attack as one to show that they don't have much fighting experience. (those wolves are actually peasants, but why they were attacking him is something for the story to reveal)
The strange appearance and strength of the wolf/bear duo is an intentional mystery, which is actually closely tied to the lore of the Outer World as well as the mechanics of the fic's verse as a whole. At this point I'm still trying to portray the Outer World as strange, foreign, and unknown, and as such many things are left unexplained. Such as for example...
- The appearance and strength of the wolf/bear duo
- Why griffons love hunting recusants
- Why recusants are looked down upon, and indeed why they exist at all, or what they are, or how they came to be
- What the vision Dissy had at the stone (obelisk) means
- What that stone was
-Why wolves and bears can talk here, but not in Equestria
All of this stuff and more.
You'll find as you get further into the fic that things start being explained more often, and I actually have a chapter planned (I want to say... 16?) that explains many of the more important bits as well, to some extent. Right now, you just don't know much because Dissy doesn't know much, because really he hasn't had any reason to know much. He's just trying to survive here.
Don't you worry about the rules of the Outer World, now. There are plenty of those. I'd say that my co-author and I spend more time working on the Outer World than on the fic itself.
Guess I might start your next chapter soon.
-Golden 'Mystery Man' Wing
Hey, I got my first dislike.
Huh, I wonder why.
WOOT! After waiting for so long after a cliffhanger like that, Dissy finally gets back together with the gang! Looks like things aren't going too well though, haha.
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Yeah. Seriously, out of all the ships in Harmony, they had to steal the one with no guns.
Did you see the revised bits? I added a lot of stuff into the earlier parts of the fic.
Watch me try to be concise, and watch me fail miserably at it!
Yeah, you've had this one a long time coming. My apologies for another delay, I know I've been owing you a review since you left that nice comment on chapter four. But seeing as how you've rewritten the whole thing (and nullified most of my previous chapter reviews in the process...), I think it fitting to look over what you've done with your story, and see how it fares up with the first draft (Or as much of it as I can remember, that is).
I read from the prelude up to chapter four, so I'll cover that much.
The good news, is that it's a lot better. The first chapter does a much better job of introducing us to our merry mess of misadventuring mares and stallions, and Dissero is much less of a camera head. Their characters are deeper, personalities given a little extra flavor, and over all are much more relatable sympathetic, and interesting.
Best of all, most of the poor writing from the first drafts of the first two chapters are gone. The Inner City is presented much more as it should have been; as a shit cocktail that no sane or moral being would want anything to do with. The insufferable life of a slave is presented a little better (though it could still use a little work), and the ignoble depravity of the heinous acts committed by an ivory tower villain are much more fitting for one as vile as he.
Speaking of which, introducing the first big bad behind the curtain was a wholly wise move. He was still memorable enough even when he showed up so late that he could've been Orson Wells in The Third Man (Have I used that joke already?), and before he was just a big bad that we only ever heard about, and comprehended his wickedness through what he's indirectly doing to the protagonists. Even then he was still a much better villain than Sombra, and no, I am never letting that the fuck up! But this time around, not only to I get a sample of his character much earlier on, but I fucking hated him almost from the start. The longer your reader despises the antagonist, the better. And I'm not shy to admit... fuck, those superficial executions were hard to read.
On the matter of that, the desperate, ends-justify-the-means cause of the rebels in the face of the predominant monster that is the Inner City, along with the way it desensitizes our protagonists, is a much better set-up for the conflict in the Outer World, I feel.
And the mental image of Silver, drunk of his ass while flying an experimental airship was fucking hilarious.
Unfortunately, it still has problems. And quite a few.
Probably the biggest one is the prelude. So I guess we have another similarity between us now; we've both got only one, terribly under appreciated long-fic to our names, and both of those stories have a prelude the other thought was mostly pointless. Maybe this is just because I have limited perspective of the story compared to you, but I found the whole entry unnecessarily vague. Sure, it puts more pieces on the board earlier on; some pony seer, some bronze artifact thing that in my mind looks like a combination of a symbol of a compass and the glyph of Phyrexia, griffons, some thing that you didn't visually describe well (that's another demerit), some plot against Equestria, and somehow DISSERO(?!) is supposed to be the lynch pin that foils it? But even with all the blatantly obvious set-ups, all those things are just thrown out there with so little context that it's hard, if not impossible to attach more significance to them than "wait and see what they'll mean in the future."
Seriously, if it wasn't for what knowledge I do have of the story, I wouldn't have been able to piece as much together as I did... and what I did doesn't account for a whole lot. I don't even know where this is taking place; I'm assuming Outer World because of the griffons, but there's no way of knowing that for certain, and that stipulation is based of knowledge I have chapters and chapters in advance. We're not even given a clear-cut reason to care about either side; it's pretty much operating off protagonist biased that because the seer is a pony, and these griffons are in her way, she's the good guy, they're the bad guys. But at best, that's hollow writing, because in the prelude, nothing about them has been established and no connection to the audience has been made. As much as I hate to say it, it's sort of like the presumptuous good guy/bad guy line that was drawn between the crystal ponies and Sombra, and no, I will not recede, my hatred of the season three premiere is unfathomable!
Also, Moon Dream and Old Ironhide are still missing their marks with me. Maybe this is just my problem, but I'm not connecting with them enough to the point where Moon's supposed death (because I'm still not convinced he's actually dead) hits with the tragedy of loss, and thus I don't feel indignant when Nix gives us some spout of exposition that he knew about the rebels plans, but because he kept quiet, Moon is dead. And if it was even possible, his suicide seems even more baseless than it did last time around.
This is more of a meta issue, but how the Hell is Baron keeping not only his entire operation, but an entire city of slaves hidden? And you can't just say that he's bribed enough of the right people, because some of them aren't playing his game. Hasn't any one of those public servants gone to either of The Sisters and been like "This shadow figure tried to bribe me; I think you should look into it," and then this inevitably leads Celestia and Luna to Inner City, which they rip apart with the Wrath of God and personally deliver Robber Baron on a one-way trip to Hel? Makes no sense.
From there, it's just little issues in places; like the crew still referring to a hand of cards as a "hand of cards," there was one paragraph somewhere in chapter four where you missed the space bar to badly that you hit the tab key, and how... in the fuck... do you have the rebels steal an entire crate of moon stones... and yet the don't have a squad of Nidoqueens, Nidokings, Cefables, and Wigglytuffs?! Where the fuck is Nidotuff Fable party?!
Still present issues aside, the rewrite has so far been well worth it, and the story is more enjoyable as a result. Congratulations.
- Christian '1100 words is concise' Harisay
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Aww, you're gonna look at my rewrites, too? You're too kind. Really, you shouldn't have.
I'm glad that things are reading better. This was, after all, my goal. The prelude is admittedly still a problem, but honestly as long as it inspires just enough interest to get people past the (in my opinion) dull beginning of Ch. 1 and into the more gripping stuff, I'm satisfied. It seems that most of the issues in the beginning are with the prelude, which is kind've good, because it'd be way worse if they were in the story proper.
Maybe I'll write a new one... again. Or just take it out entirely.
And I've kept my eye on the whole issue of "wtf how has nobody found out about Harmony?" That is, in my opinion, the largest plot hole in my story. Luckily, you're supposed to ask that, and I've set up answers down the road that I think make sense. I even added hints about it, in the beginning of Ch. 4.
Excellent, everything is going according to plan...
I'm afraid I have nothing witty to put here for you. Oh well.
-Golden 'Witless' Wing
I haven't even read this thing yet and I like it, and by like it I mean its original and you obviously care about it. I mean come on!
And yet only 19 followers? Consider me your 20th, I might blog this thing too.
You deserve many more views!
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Well, actually though I only have 19 followers I have around 45 readers, and that's what really matters to me.
If you think it's long now...hehehe...
I'm about a sixth of the way through.
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Okay, here's my review based off of what I've been able to read.
I'm in love with this thing in every sense of the word for quite a few reasons, firstly the setting slightly reminds me of a Steampunk fiction I have in the makings called 'Morality'. While the similarities are rather small as Morality has a heavier background on divinity and redemption of sin, there are enough to make me smile. As well as how there are a large amount of things Omega shares with Last Night - are you living inside my head, dude?
The characters! Man oh man, I just love the ponies you've crafted for this. I can see the effort behind each and every personality, the carefully chosen dialogue made to fit the story and most importantly the realism. They are believable in their actions which as a fellow author really does pull me in quite a lot, I always try to make my characters seem real and I'm so glad I'm not the only one who nitpicks with this and that to achieve it.
The whole plot however remains clouded to me, while I cannot argue with how well done it is, and I'm sure it becomes clearer later on, as of now I'm at a loss for words as how you've scripted this - that's a good thing by the way. I seem to be falling in love with this bit by bit...
Consider me your new fan and friend! Because colour me guilty I really like this.
If you ever want to talk writing stuff send me a PM, or add me on skype at 'jokerisbestpony'! I love to talk about my ideas and discus those of other people, compare and swap examples ect. I just love to talk to cool people like you, really.
Cheers, and I can't wait to see how you end this.
Aww, sad ending, but awesome update nonetheless.
Ember and Exe seem like they would get along, I wonder where you're going with that.