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otherwise we need to become one with our robot overlords to truly make our emotions irrelevant, haha.

That's kind of what I was implying. If emotions can be harmful, why not put them on the sidetrack? Pretend they aren't there. Do things as a robot would do them.

Depression is only harmful if you let it affect you, perhaps? If it bears no influence, it's as good as curred?

If you want to think of depression like crime, a well policed neighbourhood suffers no crime throughout the year, but there is always the (albeit minute) risk of crime - does that make sense? In that way, crime is "as good as gone", but it's not gone. In the same way, depression can be "as good as cured", but it never is.

I was going more along the lines of, there is no police, and everyone is a criminal. But if you put on your armor, you can walk the streets and pretend there are no criminals around you. You can do everything you could otherwise do if there was no crime. So why even deal with the crime if it doesn't affect you?

Perhaps humans can become more than they are?

There are some physical flaws that can't be cured. But when it comes to our personalities and decision making processes, I'd like to think humans can grow. And if there are flaws in the thinking process, I'd like to think they could be eliminated.

If I feel like I want to die, and you say "but fundamentally you're one of the most precious things in the universe" that doesn't make me want to live. No matter how true, a fact like that isn't inherently enough for most people to go "you know what, this whole suicide business is old hat" and go on to live a regular life.

And that is something I don't understand. Why react to emotions instead of objective facts? Emotions can be wrong. Facts are never wrong.

I still can't tell what the difference is between the two.

Self worth and self confidence are two sides of the same coin, and both of them feed your ego.

Shouldn't we try to starve our egos?

For people without an ego, however, these examples would merely be small achievements that continue to validate and motivate them.

Do you know anyone without an ego?

That was very kind of you. I thoroughly enjoyed your comment. I'll be reading your story soon enough, life has me preoccupied currently.

I know how that is. I sometimes wish the whole world would just erupt in flames so I'd be free from my self-imposed obligations to it.

I used to think that developing my sense of obligations and demolishing my need for fun would make me a more productive person. I didn't know that I'd be putting a vinegar on all potential fun for the rest of my life. And the sad part is, I don't think there's an undo button for this.

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Why can't emotions be like that—Irrelevant?

Well, because they can't under normal circumstances. I'm sure you could do something to dull your emotions, either to numb yourself or to find "inner peace" or somesuch. It might be possible, I'm not sure. If it's something you're interested in, I bet you could look it up - otherwise we need to become one with our robot overlords to truly make our emotions irrelevant, haha.

Depression is only harmful if you let it affect you, perhaps? If it bears no influence, it's as good as curred?

Essentially yes. That's what I've been saying, although it might not be very clear. If you want to think of depression like crime, a well policed neighbourhood suffers no crime throughout the year, but there is always the (albeit minute) risk of crime - does that make sense? In that way, crime is "as good as gone", but it's not gone. In the same way, depression can be "as good as cured", but it never is.

Perhaps humans can become more than they are?

As said before, I think with enough mental training it could be possible to overcome your inherent flaws, but they would still be a part of you. If you are born crippled, but through determination and effort become able to walk, that's fantastic. On the outside, you can walk, so isn't that the same as walking for anyone else? Not at all, because fundamentally, what makes up your body is inherently flawed. That sounds kind of eugenic-y, so I'd just like to clarify that I say that with no ill intent or malice. When it comes to people with disabilities gaining movement, I think it's no less valid than anyone else moving around, but that being said *genetically* they have impaired movement. The mind is the same way, if you're born with dyslexia but become good with words through sheer effort, you will still have some inkling of that problem in some cases. Does that make sense?

What if there is an objective reason? What if life is the only worthwhile thing this Universe has to show for itself?

Maybe there is an objective reason, but things like depression and emotion don't really take objectivity into account. If I feel like I want to die, and you say "but fundamentally you're one of the most precious things in the universe" that doesn't make me want to live. No matter how true, a fact like that isn't inherently enough for most people to go "you know what, this whole suicide business is old hat" and go on to live a regular life.

I still can't tell what the difference is between the two.

Self worth and self confidence are two sides of the same coin, and both of them feed your ego. However, they are not your ego in of itself, merely building blocks that can facilitate it. Inflated self worth, overconfidence, a series of successes, being coddled, etc can all lead to developing an ego. An ego is not a healthy, objective view of yourself (self worth) and your capabilities (self confidence), it is a narcissistic view of these things, often backed up by examples of your own "brilliance." For people without an ego, however, these examples would merely be small achievements that continue to validate and motivate them.

I'm on a reading and writing hiatus, but I made an exception for your story.

Don't feel obliged to do the same, though. Only read it if you're curious.

That was very kind of you. I thoroughly enjoyed your comment. I'll be reading your story soon enough, life has me preoccupied currently.

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You can't ignore emotions. When you're happy, can you turn a switch and not be happy anymore?

Perhaps you could make it irrelevant?

Like how you can talk whether your hands are in your pockets or outside of your pockets. It's irrelevant. Why can't emotions be like that—Irrelevant?

So yes, sometimes you'd be happy and sometimes you'd be sad, but it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't be an issue. Depression wouldn't be an issue.

Depression is only harmful if you let it affect you, perhaps? If it bears no influence, it's as good as curred?

You can have self determination and agency while still having inherent parts of who you are.

A toaster is still a toaster in my eyes, even if it can make somewhat random patterns of crust. It will always be just a toaster. Even if the randomness of the patterns increases with time, I won't see it as an evolution of the toaster. But humans... Perhaps humans can rise above the limits that the toaster has. Perhaps humans can influence their nature. Perhaps humans can become more than they are?

Your sense of self worth is what keeps you alive. If you don't value yourself, why even exist?

What if there is an objective reason? What if life is the only worthwhile thing this Universe has to show for itself? If I were to grant myself the freedom to take away my life, I'd automatically be giving the same right to all other living beings. We can't have double standards, you know? And if all creatures exercise this right, in theory, the Universe could find itself lifeless. The one thing it had going for itself—lost. We can't have that. Life in the Universe should be preserved. And that, for good or bad, includes my own life.

I think describing self worth as ego is a bad idea, purely because in of itself self worth is valuable and necessary for a healthy life, but an ego is not - even if it stems from the same place.

I still can't tell what the difference is between the two.

I'll take a look at that story soon.

I'm on a reading and writing hiatus, but I made an exception for your story.

Don't feel obliged to do the same, though. Only read it if you're curious.

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You can't ignore emotions. When you're happy, can you turn a switch and not be happy anymore? Not unless you impose upon yourself something to change your emotions. "Think happy thoughts" is a very hollow piece of advice for someone who's suffering. If it were that simple, depression wouldn't be an issue 😉

I can't really comment on your opinions on social interaction. While they're not the norm, I've definitely known people who act in a similar manner to you. Some people are just wired differently, and prefer that kind of isolation. Personally, I don't think talking about your problems is weak so much as it is a healthy part of human interaction: but again, I know people who feel that way already, so I can respect your opinion. You can have self determination and agency while still having inherent parts of who you are. You can "beat" depression and move on from it, but it's a constant battle. That's just a fact of life. Nothing about that stops you from improving yourself, or changing parts of who you are.

Your sense of self worth is what keeps you alive. If you don't value yourself, why even exist? That was a point I was at when I was at my lowest point. I was essentially on suicide watch, because I felt like my life was so utterly worthless, while there was so much beauty in the world, that I simply shouldn't exist. Self worth can also give you a sense of purpose. If you want to improve yourself, either correcting flaws or improving skills, they're obviously going to give you more self worth and self confidence, right? I think describing self worth as ego is a bad idea, purely because in of itself self worth is valuable and necessary for a healthy life, but an ego is not - even if it stems from the same place.

I'll take a look at that story soon.

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If you could somehow overcome the feelings your own body is forcing upon you by sheer willpower alone, I'd be incredibly impressed.

Can depression have a hold on you if you ignore it and act as if it wasn't there?

Typically, most people will go and speak to someone about it.

I find it easier to write it to myself or to others than to talk about it. Also, I view things a bit more globally. From outside in. Anything that could happen to me in my life would always be insignificant compared to the big picture. There's no point in talking about insignificant things.

I think the fact that we lean on others for support is a given.

I respect people who are self-sustainable and don't need others. I'd like to be like them. Opening up to others would go against that goal. By seeking support from others, you're giving credence to your own weakness. I, for one, do not want to be weak.

people with a genetic predisposition to low moods can't ever be "healed" because that seed of depression is, in essence, baked into them. It's a core part of their mind.

I always liked to think that I can become any person I wish to be. I hate the notion of having to 'heal' and play games with your brain. If there's something wrong with the current persona, I'd rather have the option to just turn into a person who isn't broken. If we can't even change ourselves, do we even have any agency at all?

depression can be waves at the shoreline, or a tidal wave.

Do you have an action plan for when a tidal wave comes?

Ultimately, my feeling of self worth has come from both myself and others.

Isn't self-wort just another word for ego? Why couldn't a person function without self-worth?

having someone be so interested in my lived experiences is a nice change of pace.

I'm searching for something. I'm not sure what it is, but I know I won't find it in the same old - same old common stuff. There was a 'different' vibe to you, and that's what spiked my interest.

I'd be glad if you read at least one of my stories, Shiver, to see what you make of it.

I just might. On that note, there's a story I didn't want to publish on my own account because it was too personal. If you wish to read it, you can find it here:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/214958/for-the-study-of-parasprites