Collab with The Abyss
Apple Bloom gets her first lesson in handling racism.
Cover art by: peachiekeenie
Thanks to Bleeding Raindrops, Sipioc, Maxima Mea Culpa and xjuggernaughtx for their help shaping this idea.
Chapters (1)
- Member Since 21st Feb, 2014
- offline last seen Saturday
RaylanKrios
It is a good and noble thing to tell a good story.
RaylanKrios
Joined 21st Feb, 2014 ·
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Um... why would Diamond Tiara, an earth pony, say a racial slur against earth ponies to another earth pony? I mean, I know she's a bully, but it seems a little silly. Probably could have used any of the other students.
Still, really good story.
Unless she's been eating worms, Apple Bloom watched with bated breath.
6470316 I would argue it's similar to why some black people use the n word, or some women use misogynist terms: they're creating an implied distinction between the slur and all members of the group.
6470321 thanks
6470331 fixed
6470352
6470316
One could also argue that Diamond Tiara was making fun of Apple Bloom because she's a farm pony.
A very sweet story I liked it,
Seems strange that DT would use "mud pony", seeing she is one herself. Maybe if she called them "hicks"?
And I don't see why she was grounded. DT more than deserved getting her teeth blasted out of her skull.
6470872 See my comment here: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/291529/strength-of-an-apple-tree#comment/6470443
6470872 As for being grounded, she hit someone else. Even if she was provoked, it was still the wrong thing to do.
6470872
I do not think Diamond Tiara understood what she said. She often has her mouth running and I bet her brain missed that one. Hopefully she does get told what she said and it is corrected fast.
One of the best stories I've ever read. Great job!
6470316
6470352
6470443
Alternatively, you could go by the interpretation that Diamond Tiara hasn't thought about whether the term applies to her because she's just really stupid.
That's my headcanon, at least.
6472225 Pfft yeah haha, that works too.
Such a great, heart-warming story. Nice job.
Short and sweet. Very nice!
6470316 My guess is, in this story, Diamond Tiara has a secret horn hidden under that Tiara. Or bully casting call in Ponyville failed to turn up any non-earth ponies, take your pick.
Well, to be honest, I'd punch Diamond Tiara too.
It's like Hermione punching Malfoy.
I'm pretty sure we all inwardly cheered.
Sometimes, a good smack is what it takes to grind the lesson in. Not always, but I've known a few people who needed it.
6473524 Possibly the best scene in the series.
frankly. Diamond Tiara should be plumbed. I personally would have claimed child abuse by spoiling way before. I hate the brat. So GO APPLEBLOOM!
6474863 Filthy Rich is by far the worst parent for spoiling his little hell hound and letting her get away with bullying and most likely bad grades.
6473223 I think the term means earth ponies with farm work.
6474968 In the 50 other times I've seen that term used in stories, its a racial slur that applies to all earth ponies.
6474972 Okay then.. Thanks for informing me.
6474978 No problem, the author could be trying to take the term in a new direction here, it's just a deviation from most other stories,
6474863 What do you mean by 'plumbed'?
A collaboration between two of my favorite authors? oh yeah I'm reading this!
6475503 beaten black and blue.
beaten into a bloody pulp.
punched repeatedly and kicked over and over till she looks like a puddle on the floor?
xD I don't like her. I've had problems with bullies all my life so yeah.
6475628 Ah, okay.
6475633 lol. not expecting such agressive response hu?
That was a really mature way of discussing racism. Very nice job. =) About the only complaint I could find was it was odd to see Big Mac talking so much, but overall, it's really refreshing to see such a mature take on a serious subject.
Great story! It is a lot harder to just send some offender on their way rather than confronting them forcefully but it sometimes works out better. I enjoyed Mac being the strong yet compassionate pony. Good work.
6471484
Yeah, that's what it looked like to me. Or maybe for whatever reason (too sheltered, never bothered to think about it, etc) didn't think of it in racial (tribal?) terms, but simply as a way to get Apple Bloom's goat. She either doesn't know or didn't really think about it. The idea that the term doesn't apply to her works just as well, but judging from her age and...Diamond's general lack of foresight, I'd bet on the former.
Either way, I doubt it's a term reserved solely for farm ponies, since it's stated early on that Apple Bloom would never call Diamond Tiara a mud pony (nice foreshadowing, by the way).
Meanwhile, Big Macintosh is wonderful in this.
Sweet story!
6470316
My impression was that she'd discovered that Applebloom was bothered by it. The specific choice meant nothing to her. She simply wanted to say whatever it was that she knew would bother Applebloom.
Kind of dislike the premise of this story. Sure, it's well written and Macintosh's characterization is likable. But basically this story is about projecting human insecurities onto ponies for whom obviously different rules apply.
The distinctions between the various pony races are clear, definite, and unquestionably have meaningful consequence. For example, if you have a human who refuses to date outside their race, a lot of people will look down on that. But imagine a pegasus who refuses to date non-pegasi. Because...you know, they can't fly. That's a real and meaningful thing. It means she can't stay over at his house in the clouds. In means visiting her on the ground. It means she can't personally relate to the thing he does every day. It means they can't share it together. Or consider a hiring discrimination scenario. Again, if a human refuses to hire someone based on race, humans tend to look down on that. But consider an earth pony heavy freight company, say...house movers, that refuses to hire pegasi. Again, because they can't do that.
It's not difficult to come up with scenarios where what we might from a human point of view call "pony racism" is probably a pretty reasonable thing if you're a pony.
Granted this story isn't going deep into that error. The pegasus in the beginning is tossing out insults for no reason that's stated. But in a world where Fantastic Racism has basically reasonable justification, I have to wonder how and why Applebloom came to have the deep emotional reaction to it that you're giving her.
Compare:
"Hi! I'm a black man and I would like to apply for this postal delivery job!"
"No. You're black. On the basis of your race, I choose to not hire you, because that's the sort of person I am."
...to:
"Hi! I'm an earth pony and I would like to apply for this postal delivery job!"
"No. You're an earth pony. On the basis of your race, I choose to not hire you, because you can't fly the delivery route."
See how these are different?
A world with such a reasonable and justifiable basis for treating people differently seems ill-suited for aesops about the human flavor of racism.
6479443 You kinda lost me.
We agree that racism is bad.
It sounds like you're saying that pony racism isn't really racism because there are actually non cosmetic differences between the ponies of equestria, whereas in humans skin color is a superficial trait.
and you might have a point, if the story was about something to the effect of
"I'd like a job on the weather team,"
"Sorry you're an earth pony and we need someone who can fly"
BUT
the story isn't about that. If we assume that members of one tribe might look down on the members of another tribe, for no other reason then they are different, then ponies can be racist and that racism would be unjustified in every way. (Also seems like a Pegasus could still be a house mover. Bulk Biceps is a Pegasus and I'd bet he'd be great at it.)
The nameless Pegasus in our story wasn't criticizing the practical effects of earth ponies lack of flight, he was calling them a slur that implied they were inherently inferior. THAT IS RACISM AND IT IS BAD!
tl;dr Don't project your own views onto other people's stories without the textual evidence to make a good point, it makes authors annoyed
6479521
Ok, let me try rephrasing this.
What if instead of earth ponies and pegasi, it was elves and dwarvesl? What if a dwarf called elf an a dirty, stunking pointy eared treehugger? It doesn't carry the same weight. Look at the Lord of the Rings movies. Watch the antagonism between Gimli and Legolas. Yes, clearly that's racism. But it doesn't carry the same stigma as if it were humans. Or, even better example: Elrond's disapproval of Aragorn's relationship with his daughter, because he was human and she was an elf. Yes, again that's definitely racism, but Elrond was clearly portrayed as a good guy in that story, he was not villified for it and everyone was basically ok with it. I don't remember anyone saying that the Lord of the Rings was a despicable tale depicting racism as acceptable and therefore bad. What if it were Kilngons vs Vulcans? What it were Star Wars droids? Remember that scene in Episode IV where the bartender says that R2D2 and C3PO have to wait outside, so they do, and that's just how it is and everybody is ok with it?
Fictional racism when non-humans are involved doesn't always carry the same weight that it seems to with humans. It can, if delivered properly. But to deliver it properly requires that the weight be properly established. Otherwise it can come across as empty.
This story is well written. I'm not complaining about that. And Macintosh is portrayed very well, and very likably. I have no complaints there.
But I come away from this story not reacting the way that I think you, the author, intended me, the reader, to react. Because the severity of the situation has not been sufficiently established. Rationale for the depth of Applebloom's reaction has not been sufficiently established. That Diamond Tiara "got what she deserved" is most definitely not sufficiently established.
You appear to be depending on "racism between humans is bad" to translate in your reader's mind that "racism between ponies is bad." And like all of the examples above, that doesn't necessarily happen on its own.
In fact, you've taken great pains to write contrary to that assumption. Mac takes what happens completely in stride. Just like Luke Skywalker asking his droids to stand outside, he's clearly not bothered by what happened. You have Mac explaining to Applebloom that "they're just words." Ok, well, of everybody in the story, Mac is the best and most likable character. if he says they're just words and they don't matter, I'm inclined to believe him. And Diamond Tiara is an earth pony too and it obviously doesn't bother her either.
Yet for reasons that are never established, for reasons that are contrary to the views of other characters in the story...you have Applebloom being horribly offended to the point of violence. "Because for humans racism is bad" is not sufficient to convey emotionally that "for ponies racism is bad" when you have everypony in the story except Applebloom acting like it's ok. Again, just like Lord of the Rings. Elrond did things that had it been humans doing them, would have been wholly acceptable. But because it was elves, it was ok. And everyone was ok with it. Even Aragorn was ok with it.
Why does Applebloom have this reaction? You haven't established that racism is bad when its ponies.
6479770 we may just fundamentally disagree.
I'm relying on the fanon trait that mud pony is a derogatory slur to establish why AB recacted the way she did, thus I don't think I need to establish its weight independently of that.
6479443
Except this story isn't about those situations at all.
This is about someone using a derogatory term to describe a group. It's not like choosing not to hire someone, it's like calling people "nigger," "spic," "chink," etc. because of their ethnicity. It's about using offensive language because of something over which the targets of such slurs have absolutely no control.
It's not an employer saying, "Sorry, I can't hire you for this job because you don't fulfill the qualifications." It's a racist jackass being a racist jackass for no reason, with no provocation, aside from a waitress spilling a drink.
6499717
I simply suggesting that the weight of racial slurs would probably not be equivalent in a world where racial dynamics are so different than they are here.
For example, imagine that somebody sneered at you and called you a 'ground pounder' referencing the fact that you can't fly. Would you be very offended by that? I'm guessing you wouldn't. But now, imagine if you called a pegasus a ground pounder. Do you see how they might be more offended?
6500888
To your first question, no, I would not be offended, but that's due to the kind of person I am. It no longer matters what someone else calls me, because it's either true and I own it, or it's false and I don't care. Kinda how desensitization works.
To your second question, the only reason a rational pegasus would take that as an insult would be if they were either too young to fly or grounded; the rest can fly, so it's a pointless and false remark.
And the idea that racist comments might not carry the same relevance in a world where there actually are multiple sapient races instead of one with a vast spectrum of colors is hilarious. The only thing that would change is which race is elite and what they call the other races. The very concept of racism is "I'm better than you because you're different."
6500888
There's a difference between referring to Apple Bloom as an Earth Pony or as a 'mud pony', or whatever other term you come up with.
One is a factual statement, derived from her actual existence.
One is a hateful slur meant to emotionally injure.
You can't get much more different.
Also, a world where there are such distinct differences between the races actually makes it more likely that there would be such hate, and such terms. Remember the stories of the pre-unification era? I could easily imagine Hurricane throwing such an insult at Puddinghead, which would probably result in a war.
Big Mac at his most sage-est. Faved.
6473524 not me. I outwardly cheered when she punched him.
I guess N word privileges don't exist in Equestria.
This is the first Fimfic I ever read, before I'd even made an account on the site. I just happened to think of it, and came here to tell you that I really liked it.
7596980 thank you