Great, now Spitfire is losing it. There's only three ways this can end, and two of them end up with someone dead. You were not kidding when you said this story was going to get dark.
2734132 Well, since Spitfire is going crazy from jealousy, she's likely going to try and kill Rainbow Dash. This will either end with her being successful, Rainbow Dash or someone else dealing a death blow to Spitfire, or Spitfire confesses to what's his name(don't remember) and he accepts her love and he starts getting his own little harem. Although there are many other routes you can go with this.
Even without all the rape this story is interesting in a militaristic fashion. Although no one believes it to be the "correct" thing to do Luna was still right to slaughter the refugees. The risk was too high and saving one pony doesn't mean that they are on the ponies side. I can't wait for Luna to find out about the traitor in Ponyville. Also, comparing Luna to Ray? How many griffons has she raped again? Zero? Accurate statement there Soarin'. Doing the "right" thing isn't the same as doing the "moral" or "ethical" thing.
2734930 What Luna did was a war crime, take from a real life soldier. You only engage armed enemy combatants, otherwise it is murder and punished like so. If anything it is punished more harshly than civilians. Nothing Luna or her guards did was right, in fact in the US the guards are also guilty of the crimes because they followed an illegal order. The only legal decision made by Luna in this entire story was her HVT kill/cap order.
2735179 If this was the real world then, yes, you would be correct. However this is Equestria. I've yet to see any written rules of engagement or anything similar to the Geneva Convention. In order for there to be a war crime, there first has to rules to break. Even then what would be the point of following the rules when the griffons clearly aren't abiding by the rules. The only reason Equestria would follow the rules would be to cast the griffons in an even worse light to possibly convince some neutral parties to support Equestria.
2737052 Just as you can say that "There is no proof that Equestria does have the same legal system as the US", I can say "There is no proof that Equestria doesn't have...", only difference is that the characters' responses have all been the same if this act where committed in the real world, indicating that there are a lot of similarities.
Ignoring that, it's self-evident that Equestria would never condone any of the actions that Luna took. You don't go kill innocent children for the crimes of their parents. Even removing the military element of this, it qualifies as mass murder in the first degree. Given that it was committed against foreign nationals, that makes it an international crime (the civilian equivalent to a war crime). No matter how you slice it, what Luna did was so completely wrong that trying to defend it is insane. If anything, Luna should know this better than anyone. Just trying to bring night-eternal got her a 1,000 year prison sentence on the moon. This is significantly worse.
In the real world, Luna would be facing the death penalty in a military tribunal (even if this wasn't committed in a time of war), as would every pony that followed her order to murder the innocent (life in prison when not in a war-time setting).
As for whether to follow the rules or not, we are living the result of that debate right now. The AQ and Taliban don't follow the Geneva Convention now, but Coalition forces do, and look at the results in the quality of the warriors. We hold ourselves to a higher standard, and punish those who don't follow that standard. The reason: discipline. That is something that the AQ and Taliban lack. If they are retreating, they leave their wounded behind (and cite that it was Allah's will that they died), which is something that no warrior in the Coalition would allow. That's why Coalition forces don't run when faced with heavy resistance, why those infantrymen don't have to be higher than a kite to go into battle, and not all run into the same building after contact has been made (see: Alpha Whiskey Romeo, Allah's Waiting Room tactic). All the while, the Coalition has done significantly more damage to AQ and the Taliban than the reverse.
Summing the above paragraph: A well disciplined military has rules and regulations that it must follow. That discipline allows it to operate in a chaotic environment where there is no clear black and white answer to situations by giving the individual a strict set of guidelines to operate within so that he or she doesn't have to think too hard or long about a course of action (which on the battlefield is measured in lives lost). Even if there isn't a Geneva Convention, there are military rules and regs that even Luna would have to follow that would prohibit her actions with the Griffon civilians.
While not exactly like US laws, Equestria does have similar rules when it comes to engagements in warfare. However, very few ponies, if any (besides Celestia and Luna) can remember the last time war broke out in Equestria. Their royal guards double as the main military force, and while it is large enough to protect Canterlot with a few squads to spare, there is not enough to protect every city and town, let alone mount an attack force.
The griffons, while not completely barbaric, are not quite as civilized as the ponies (due to living in the far North in extreme weather, thus having to struggle harder for survival). Their military is structured almost identical to the ponies, but they focus more on stealth, sabatoge, and guerrilla warfare.
For the purpose of settling the argument here, there are (at least for now) no set rules of warfare, mainly because this is the first time Equestria has found itself in such a position. The same goes for the griffons. Celestia is of course trying her best to maintain peace and not have to resort to any military action, while Luna wants to protect her subjects at any cost.
Now to be honest; I'm glad you two are having this argument. That was exactly what I was striving for; conflict of emotions.
YES!!! I just knew he was alive after his 'friend' attacked him. Vengeance shall be his! Oohh, Spitfire, now we should make a herd with Dash, Spitfire, and anonymous courier stallion. Can't wait to see what else comes from this.
the issue here is Luna was again pushed to an extreme. Celestia failed her ponies by not heighting securty and tell them they are at war. Luna did wrong but the blame also lies with Celestia for failing to protect her ponies.
Great, now Spitfire is losing it. There's only three ways this can end, and two of them end up with someone dead. You were not kidding when you said this story was going to get dark.
2734122
Just curious, what are the three ways? I think I may surprise you...
2734132 Well, since Spitfire is going crazy from jealousy, she's likely going to try and kill Rainbow Dash. This will either end with her being successful, Rainbow Dash or someone else dealing a death blow to Spitfire, or Spitfire confesses to what's his name(don't remember) and he accepts her love and he starts getting his own little harem. Although there are many other routes you can go with this.
Hmmm fight to the death between Rainbow Dash and Spitfire. I like it
Even without all the rape this story is interesting in a militaristic fashion. Although no one believes it to be the "correct" thing to do Luna was still right to slaughter the refugees. The risk was too high and saving one pony doesn't mean that they are on the ponies side. I can't wait for Luna to find out about the traitor in Ponyville. Also, comparing Luna to Ray? How many griffons has she raped again? Zero? Accurate statement there Soarin'. Doing the "right" thing isn't the same as doing the "moral" or "ethical" thing.
2734930
What Luna did was a war crime, take from a real life soldier. You only engage armed enemy combatants, otherwise it is murder and punished like so. If anything it is punished more harshly than civilians. Nothing Luna or her guards did was right, in fact in the US the guards are also guilty of the crimes because they followed an illegal order. The only legal decision made by Luna in this entire story was her HVT kill/cap order.
2734191
All good guesses, but not quite. My plan is much more needlessly complicated.
2734122
GOING to get dark?! I believe you missed all the rape, torture and murder.
I LIIIIIIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
2735179
If this was the real world then, yes, you would be correct. However this is Equestria. I've yet to see any written rules of engagement or anything similar to the Geneva Convention. In order for there to be a war crime, there first has to rules to break. Even then what would be the point of following the rules when the griffons clearly aren't abiding by the rules. The only reason Equestria would follow the rules would be to cast the griffons in an even worse light to possibly convince some neutral parties to support Equestria.
You´ll get him kill! Yay for SpitfirexSoarin!
2737052
Just as you can say that "There is no proof that Equestria does have the same legal system as the US", I can say "There is no proof that Equestria doesn't have...", only difference is that the characters' responses have all been the same if this act where committed in the real world, indicating that there are a lot of similarities.
Ignoring that, it's self-evident that Equestria would never condone any of the actions that Luna took. You don't go kill innocent children for the crimes of their parents. Even removing the military element of this, it qualifies as mass murder in the first degree. Given that it was committed against foreign nationals, that makes it an international crime (the civilian equivalent to a war crime). No matter how you slice it, what Luna did was so completely wrong that trying to defend it is insane. If anything, Luna should know this better than anyone. Just trying to bring night-eternal got her a 1,000 year prison sentence on the moon. This is significantly worse.
In the real world, Luna would be facing the death penalty in a military tribunal (even if this wasn't committed in a time of war), as would every pony that followed her order to murder the innocent (life in prison when not in a war-time setting).
As for whether to follow the rules or not, we are living the result of that debate right now. The AQ and Taliban don't follow the Geneva Convention now, but Coalition forces do, and look at the results in the quality of the warriors. We hold ourselves to a higher standard, and punish those who don't follow that standard. The reason: discipline. That is something that the AQ and Taliban lack. If they are retreating, they leave their wounded behind (and cite that it was Allah's will that they died), which is something that no warrior in the Coalition would allow. That's why Coalition forces don't run when faced with heavy resistance, why those infantrymen don't have to be higher than a kite to go into battle, and not all run into the same building after contact has been made (see: Alpha Whiskey Romeo, Allah's Waiting Room tactic). All the while, the Coalition has done significantly more damage to AQ and the Taliban than the reverse.
Summing the above paragraph: A well disciplined military has rules and regulations that it must follow. That discipline allows it to operate in a chaotic environment where there is no clear black and white answer to situations by giving the individual a strict set of guidelines to operate within so that he or she doesn't have to think too hard or long about a course of action (which on the battlefield is measured in lives lost). Even if there isn't a Geneva Convention, there are military rules and regs that even Luna would have to follow that would prohibit her actions with the Griffon civilians.
2737026
Could be the one missing Wonderbolt... but probably not.
2737728 this is a RAPE FIC! why are discussing laws and ethics?
2742042
Because he made an extremely incorrect statement regarding military/war crimes, and it needed to be corrected.
2737052>>2737728
While not exactly like US laws, Equestria does have similar rules when it comes to engagements in warfare. However, very few ponies, if any (besides Celestia and Luna) can remember the last time war broke out in Equestria. Their royal guards double as the main military force, and while it is large enough to protect Canterlot with a few squads to spare, there is not enough to protect every city and town, let alone mount an attack force.
The griffons, while not completely barbaric, are not quite as civilized as the ponies (due to living in the far North in extreme weather, thus having to struggle harder for survival). Their military is structured almost identical to the ponies, but they focus more on stealth, sabatoge, and guerrilla warfare.
For the purpose of settling the argument here, there are (at least for now) no set rules of warfare, mainly because this is the first time Equestria has found itself in such a position. The same goes for the griffons. Celestia is of course trying her best to maintain peace and not have to resort to any military action, while Luna wants to protect her subjects at any cost.
Now to be honest; I'm glad you two are having this argument. That was exactly what I was striving for; conflict of emotions.
2742113 ok, thats a fair point
Luna is such a bitch. TheCamel, Tell Luna she is a filthy,dirty,disgusting,skanky,brutal,bottom feeding trash bag ho.
2736140
Chapter 9... I made things worse.
2753747
If you think that about Luna, I can't wait to see what you think of what Spitfire does...
Ah what?! No Spitfire Soarin pairing. Awwwww. She kissed him!
Hmm, yandere Spitfire.. I wonder what's going to happen now? (Insert sarcasm)
I hope that treacherous little fuck Iron burns for what he did to Dash, and especially for what he did to Tank. NO. MERCY. PLZ.
YES!!! I just knew he was alive after his 'friend' attacked him. Vengeance shall be his! Oohh, Spitfire, now we should make a herd with Dash, Spitfire, and anonymous courier stallion. Can't wait to see what else comes from this.
~SolidFire
the issue here is Luna was again pushed to an extreme. Celestia failed her ponies by not heighting securty and tell them they are at war. Luna did wrong but the blame also lies with Celestia for failing to protect her ponies.