Oh dear. Jason gave it his level best, but perhaps he could've broken things to ol' Celly a bit more delicately. This doesn't bode well for him and Lyra!
It's moments like these that I wish that I had the power to reach through screens and punch stupid people. He has basically botched human history and screwed us all over big time. And I'm not saying that just because I'm an American either.
“So you have slave-keeping, land-taking nation, a nation comprised entirely of criminals, a nation whose sole purpose is to run gambling institutions, and a nation of slanted-eyed, black-haired humans?” Celestia asked, her tone awed and dismayed.
I haven't even finished the chapter yet, but that is the best summary of humanity I've ever heard .
Nice chapter! I okay with pretty much any route this story will take from here EXCEPT Celestia closing the portal but allowing Jason through but only if he becomes a pony. But unless that happens, hats off to you!
yeahhhh, thats the problem with immortal deities and alien abductors... They don't let you consult a lawyer before you unintentionally incriminate the whole race of homo sapiens...
1700825 sadly, Jason had a point though, even if it was unintentional. compared to Equestria, us humans are a bunch of warmongering, bloodthirsty jerks
Yanno, I would like to see a take where Celestia finds a way to bring Jason to equestria, 'for his own safety' while she decides what to do about the portal. Perhaps once Jason gets her some real history books or access to Wikipedia she can make an educated decision about whether to open diplomatic negotiations with Humanity or simply close the portal and keep the human for the safety of her little ponies. Wouldn't want to leave a human who knows about them behind, might find a way to open another portal and let that race who is good at blowing stuff up through! <laughs> Lots of different routes you could take with this one, and I will enjoy reading where you take us! iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/lyra_____surprise____by_sirponylancelot-d4i1evk.gif Her expression at finding out her new 'boyfriend' can last, on average, 20-30 times longer than a stallion...
1701142 True, but the sheer simplification of the worst our world has to offer makes everything seem so much worse than it might be. We may have our darker parts and history but we aren't as monstrous as we think we are.
Jason does have a point there, humans are not exactly the most innocent people of the bunch. They are capable of doing great things, great and terrible things. Probably did Equestria a favor of what they can expect from humans, for that matter
Ow, Jason's description of humans is so butchered it hurts, but you know what? I'm pretty sure that is the best this guy knows. Jason might not be too bright. Being put on the spot by an immortal ruler doesn't help at all. By the way, Celestia would you care to explain sheep in your world?
Humans are both the most cruel capricous things on our planet. But also we are the most gentle and thoughtful on this world too. Humans are so varied that one does not simply tell somebod....pony about the goods and bads of the world. Im suprised though he didnt even tell her about the holocaust. Or the massive amount of serial killers. So he did relatively good
This is why we don't let people like him negotiate. I mean, seriously, does he have a brain. He should have just small talked, or I don't know, let someone else negotiate. You don't bring those up when you're talking with someone else. He better have mentioned Ghandi. Cause he was the greatest, nicest guy ever...actually, why doesn't anyone do a fic about him?
Actually, I'm kind of afraid for our hero now. Once Mol- er, Celestia hears humans last ten times longer than a stallion (at the minimum)... well, men might start dissapearing.
Ahhh! Run for your lives! Ponies want our men! For lots of sex and those magic fingers!
Is "not having nonfiction books in your house" a thing? Seriously, even sleep deprived, I could stagger over to my bookshelves, say "read these, this, this, this, these, and that, then get back to me" and not horribly botch the first contact with the ruling deity of another plane.
Sorry. I love the story, my inner Twilight just had her jimmies rustled.
He tells Celestia about all the bad stuff we do and lacks the good things? dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/sillyfilly_Sweetie_Belle.png{Aw, come on!) No Ghandi? No Mother Theresa? No UN Charta? No Bill of Rights? No Olympic Games? Or any other good achievements of mankind? But no... instead he goes "MAN!" [youtube=sTg5Ldqm8ME]
Life lesson: Never give an improper presentation about mankind to a sun goddess in the middle of the night! You're unprepared, don't think clearly enough and give reason to start a conversion bureau!
Jason ain't the smartest of fellows, is he? I mean, he could of at least had above-basic knowledge of the world. Still, the last part of the story wasn't so bad.
Hahahah I love the tears in this thread. "Oh he's giving such a bad example of human history! He should leave out all the bad bits abloo abloo abloo."
Thank you AP for being one of the very few authors who tell human history pretty straight to the ponies. We're a bunch of right bastards and have been most of our history.
1700825 Honestly sounds like he had all the important bits.
Question: Does Jason not have a computer with internet or is he just a MASSIVE derp. I mean seriously, just go to the computer and pull up a documentary on human history or something like that! Although I'm not surprised by Celestia's reaction to the concept of religion, I share her sentiments for the most part.
I don't really get why everyone is QQing over how human history is represented...
Sure we have our optimistic moments, and only governmental action, not personal actions or beliefs, were mentioned, but...
You have to admit that we pretty much suck. And a majority of human achievement were either results of conflict or some type of oppression, or were later used to cause conflict and oppression.
History is very susceptible to individual interpretation. Looking at history one way we really are murdering, slaving, virgin-raping fools. I mean the period of time in history where we've treated each other with anything other than immediate genocide is pretty short compared to the rest of history and even then people aren't keen to help members of their own ethnic/national group out. These are huge generalizations and even with a good appreciation of history if some sort of crazy giant talking unicorn with a horn long enough to impale me woke my ass up at 3 am, even with coffee I'd probably mangle describing my species horribly as well.
Besides, "We aren't all bastards," would take a lot of time to justify in the context of history since we always put the bastards into power and they do kind of lead the rest of us to do horrible horrible things.
Getting away from any sort of in story justification now and just thinking about this. How in the hell could you possibly give a short condensed version of humankind under duress to a being that oversees a nation currently in a state of eudaimonia and not make us sound like 80% chthonic monsters without ignoring vast periods of our history I will never know. Really the situation is a giant screw and I like the idea of a guy freaking out and just telling it how it is rather than sugar-coating it like every other author does. /rant (well I never really STOP ranting...)
Well, there are some things we did right. But I see your point. Our history doesn't make us seem very nice. At all, really.
Although I would like to point out that if I was under duress by some demi-god, I'd at least point out that Americans aren't the only ones good at war. Plus, why the heck would he point out that once upon a time people were rewarded with 72 virgins...
... And NOT warn the ruler of a land that, hey, we've got weapons that can destroy your entire civilization in just a few shots! I mean, I guess that's my main complaint. You'd think that'd be important. Like saying:
"Hey, don't piss off our rulers, we've got city-busters." or something to that effect.
Heh, well said. The entire situation is a screw, I think that he's more worried about pissing her off since she can cause horrible magically induced head-aches. He doesn't really know that ponies are pretty much super benevolent, even Celestia. So maybe he thought keeping the biggest examples of our modern abilities to cause violence out of it would be the best course?
Also given how bad they seemed to derail a conversation (Yes let's talk about ORGANIZED RELIGION, this cannot in anyway backfire) maybe he was just trying to not make things worse. He of course did, but I could totally see, "Don't talk about nukes and any of the major world wars, let's not get me killed and eaten," being a thought process of our poor protagonist at that point. Perhaps not a logical or correct thought process but it could be believed self-preservation at that point. Or not giving those "godless alien commie horses," information on our super-duper-American-apple-pie-nuclear weapons.
If we really want to analyze this, Celestia should have some appreciation for the fact that we have slowly started to claw our way out from 10000+ years of barbarism; especially given that we're a predator species. That we've overcome as much as we have in the past hundred years is impressive to me but given that ponies seem to have overcome almost all violent conflict they're probably hundreds if not thousands of years ahead of us. It makes it difficult to really talk in their frame of reference. How do you explain 'unenlightened' people to those living in a utopia? It's an interesting question that someone should spend some time on but all in all, I can't blame our protagonist for not really dealing with. Were it me, I would have polished off a bottle of rum before even dealing with the fact that Celestia wasn't a really bad hallucination.
Forgot our protagonist doesn't know how benevolent ponies are. Usually that's the first thing covered in an HiE. Oops. My bad. So self-preservation makes more sense to me than it did before.
"super-duper-American-apple-pie-nuclear weapons." For the rest of my life, that's what I'm going to call nuclear weapons!
" I would have polished off a bottle of rum before even dealing with the fact that Celestia wasn't a really bad hallucination." Provided she wasn't a hallucination, (And I had the knowledge I have now from the show) I'd probably try to assassinate her. (OH NO! DANGER! OFF TOPIC PARAGRAPH AHEAD!)
I mean, she banished her sister to the moon, just because Luna wanted to be a little bit more appreciated. She didn't want endless night, just some ponies to enjoy all the effort she puts in. The stars and such. Celestia just has a big burning ball of gas that can blind you. And it also seems like she's a dictator. Maybe this is American brainwashing seeping into my head, but I'd much rather be ruled by something more democratic, like a constitutional monarchy or something. (New Lunar Republic anyone?) Plus I just think she's a tyrant. (OFF TOPIC PARAGRAPH OVER! YAY!)
1702204 Fun Fact: Telling a biased and single perspective story of human history does not in fact mean he's telling it how it is. I'll give the author credit for making a somewhat amusing, if not offensive at times, portrayal of humans that is incredibly inaccurate and biased. His character being put on the spot like that would be a difficult position. If that's what the author really believes however, then there leaves much to be desired.
I do find your views of human interactions throughout history somewhat skewed. You seem believe that before a relatively recent time genocide was the normal way groups of humans greeted other groups of humans. I'm not going to argue that genocide has not occurred throughout human history, because it has, but I will argue that your statement is incorrect. Generally speaking groups of people sought to control resources and at times dominate other people; but generally this did not lead to the systematic killing of entire peoples. You can make the argument that genocides happened, but you cannot make the argument that genocide is humanity's modus operandi.
Bonus quote for laughs from a Skype conversation with this man: Invictus
I can't even... why do people do this? Spend an entire chapter talking about everything bad about humanity? That's NOT how you introduce yourself to an alien species. That'd be like if Twilight showed up and introduced ponies by saying they have three species and one of their princesses banished her sister to the moon for 1000 years of torturous solitude because that sister turned evil and tried to kill everyone (but she's back now, yay!). Also, they made their empire by either banishing or turning to stone everything that stood against them and have sole and total rulership of their kingdom and everyone in it and are also immortal.
1701724 Well even I let my human hero tell Celestia about mankind. But not only mushroom clouds and all the atrocities of mankind. Culture, art, music... None of this is mentioned. Only the horrors of mankind. To make it clear: We're not mad he talked about our bad side. We're mad because this is the only thing he talks about. True... Americans are good at war. They conquered their land, but the Bill of Rights and the US Constituition are by far the best documents for the rights of the American people. Any man, woman or child has godgiven rights and no one may take these rights away and all this. If Jason would have told her about things like that as well, I wouldn't complain. But he didn't. dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/shrug_Derpy_Hooves.png
1700922 Possible solution for Celestia: Get rid of his headaches, take him to Equestria on Lyra's behalfdl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Lyra.png , close the rogue portal forever. Further let Lyra write down the spell for portal creation, decree controlled portal usage by law.
Also don't spread around that humans can endure longer than stallions while in Equestria. During heat season, it won't need the "Want it need it" spell to let the mares of Ponyville go crazy for such a "sexwonder" in pony terms. On the other hand.... a "manhunt" for Jason where every mare hunts after him... Been there, done that.dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Twilight_crazy.png Funny as hell!
1702773 Yes, because Equestria's history isn't pockmarked with terrible shit.
Explaining Equestria like that would be like 'so tell me about the nations of your world', 'well, there's the pegasi. They're good at flying. There's the earth ponies who grow stuff, and unicorns who can do magic '
Oh, hey, let me tell you all about ponies! For a significant chunk of their history, ponies were a bunch of aggressive, infighting racist dicks. The pegasi were war-like and clearly fought all the time, while the unicorns jealously hoarded most of the wealth and shelter brought about by their unique racial ability to do magic. The two of them very clearly used their inborn advantages to unfairly put the burden of feeding ALL ponies on the one race who has no discernable way of defending themselves (earth ponies). They fought so much and had so much hatred for each other that they actually attracted the attention of magical creatures that feed off of those emotions, which subsequently turned their previous pristine home into a frost-covered wasteland.
Through their direct actions, they actually destroyed an entire ecosystem.
But, yeah, ponies are saints.
See, you can look at literally ANY history and make it look terrible if you only take the terrible events from it. Wars and serial killers and genocides are considered atrocities precisely because they're uncommon. If they were a common fact of life, then we wouldn't make such a big fuss about them.
Here's a fact for everyone to consider. In 1990, an estimated 3.7% of all deaths in the world were violence related. This includes suicides, which were by far the largest single contributor to this count (yes, even more than war).
This is (and should be) considered unacceptably high (and has since dropped, by the latest counts).
But that means 96.3% of all deaths were actually caused by natural causes. We're not the bastards, the universe is. And the vast, vast majority of human beings go their lives without ever having to kill or be killed. Statistically speaking, we're NOT murderous monsters at all.
I read history. I have a great deal of interest in my species. I KNOW we are capable of terrible things, but we are also capable of wonderful things as well. I see humanity, both the good and the bad, but you seem to only see the bad, or at least emphasize it far more than the good. You look through history and only notice the monsters and not the saints, the atrocities and not the wonders. You see all of humanity's collective evils and point to them as proof of our terrible nature, ignoring or dismissing our collective good. So yes, you are basing your humans off of human history, but only select parts, the darkest parts.
I am not asking for a sugar-coated, overly sweet, perfect angels version of humanity. I am simply looking for a complete depiction of humanity. You said you do not want to lie about humanity, and yet by dismissing or ignoring all of the good in us that is exactly what you are doing.
BUT... this is your story and your story's comment section, not a place to start an argument about human nature, so I'll say no more. You're welcome to do what you like with your own character's views. I just find it extremely disheartening that people have somehow arrived at the conclusion that the misanthropic view is the enlightened one, when a detailed study of history, economics, science, and psychology reveals that the opposite is true.
Sorry for the long rant, and in the spirit of fairness, I'll leave you with my opinion that, while I do not agree with the views on humanity presented in your story, I think it is otherwise well-written and entertaining.
How is it inaccurate? It's one sided, and depending on perspective could be biased for sure but how is talking about our history of warfare inaccurate? Unless you're saying that they didn't happen?
Why the personal attacks on the author? We have no way to know if this is how he actually believes about humanity so why even bring it up? Even if he did it's no more valid than, "Americans are the biggest force of evil in the world," or "Everyone needs to be like <country X> because they're the best!" Our interpretations of history, its ups and (mostly in my opinion) downs are incredibly subjective and biased and garbage because we're flawed imperfect beings. This is just another normal person's biased perspective on the world around him. It's totally human for him not to be a walking history degree with years of diplomatic experience. Him totally screwing everything up, sticking his foot so far in his mouth that it emerges from the other side is so believable to me that it makes the protagonist a real character.
Sure him starting by discussing Plato and Aristotle style ethics and going from there would have been optimal but I think that would only make me inclined to believe that he was a less realistic character because that kind of knowledge, ability to speak under pressure and such really aren't incredibly common traits/skills.
Now it's on Celestia's head if she's dumb enough to simply go on what he told him, or to judge an entire species on the slightly drunken, scared ramblings of one member. But his opinion on the world, while one sided, is just as valid as any other when you're dealing with something as fallible and subjective as history. (and I'm not even going into the concepts of dissonant histories)
Plus, talking about the great things our society has done, like music, poetry, great constructions like the pyramids, the great wall of china, awesome shit like Bob Marley, peacekeeping missions and whatnot. That shit is boooooring. Hence why Jason went 'well shit, that's sums it up nicely BUT' and then scene change. He added other stuff, I just didn't feel like exposition on the subject because it would have degenerated into interesting, but ultimately boring pandering on the differences between humans and ponies.
Heh, fair enough. I also want to make it clear that I wasn't hating on you personally, nor your story... I was reacting to the words of a character within your story.
Far more than that, though, I was reacting to some of the other comments here, which made me sad. When I get sad, I post my own views on the subject, because it makes me feel better.
Again, it's a nifty story... don't let in-comment arguments dissuade you from writing it as you will.
He's human! Your average guy in his lack of appreciation and understanding of what he should have said because he's not very good at xenodiplomacy (ohh new name for a story). Heck even if we assume that Jason said a lot of things like our great move from monarchies and oligarchies to more democratic forms of government, how can we assume that's a 'good thing' to ponies. They don't seemed to have any preference to self-governance (given they have an endless monarchy that rules over them and not only that but gives them directed morals they are to aim for [harmony]), and I"m not sure a lot of the things would really impress them that much. It could go either way. In AP's writing he's written that Celestia is (seemingly) less impressed with our 'good' works and more shocked at our 'bad'. Which again seems to be just as justifiable as looking at Celestia as 'Trollestia'.
I mean hell, maybe it was the domestication of the horse that pissed her off more than the Crusades and every World War combined? "Well my own ponies did bad things in the past, you did say you put that Hitler guy down afterall. Anything else? Species defining events?" "Well we domesticated the dog. Oh and horses as well, they..." "TO THE MOON WITH THEE FOUL APE."
Well, that talk with Celestia could have gone better...
And now we have a dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Lyra.png
Oh dear. Jason gave it his level best, but perhaps he could've broken things to ol' Celly a bit more delicately. This doesn't bode well for him and Lyra!
Finally you are back to updating this! Love this story
i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/152/158/spiderman-meme-generator-im-seriously-bout-to-slap-a-bitch-351d13.png
It's moments like these that I wish that I had the power to reach through screens and punch stupid people. He has basically botched
human history and screwed us all over big time. And I'm not saying that just because I'm an American either.
good chapter hot and funny
So the difference between human and pony sex is like that of diesel and gas engines.
I can dig it.
I haven't even finished the chapter yet, but that is the best summary of humanity I've ever heard .
Nice chapter! I okay with pretty much any route this story will take from here EXCEPT Celestia closing the portal but allowing Jason through but only if he becomes a pony. But unless that happens, hats off to you!
1700907 Ingress is setting up the universe for a series of HiE/PoE fics. You know, random human on pony smut everywhere
...
... 'kay. Well, uhm. That sure happened. Uhm. I think I'll sit quietly back here. Over here.
EDIT: I couldn't help myself but really?! Just five minutes?
1700932 I was like 'who's this motherfucker and why is he trying to be my editor? '
And then I saw your name
1700825 wrong emote. I believe you meant this
lunachan.net/chat/src/134448088165.png
Oh man this is hilarious.
More please.
yeahhhh, thats the problem with immortal deities and alien abductors... They don't let you consult a lawyer before you unintentionally incriminate the whole race of homo sapiens...
1700825 sadly, Jason had a point though, even if it was unintentional. compared to Equestria, us humans are a bunch of warmongering, bloodthirsty jerks
Yanno, I would like to see a take where Celestia finds a way to bring Jason to equestria, 'for his own safety' while she decides what to do about the portal. Perhaps once Jason gets her some real history books or access to Wikipedia she can make an educated decision about whether to open diplomatic negotiations with Humanity or simply close the portal and keep the human for the safety of her little ponies. Wouldn't want to leave a human who knows about them behind, might find a way to open another portal and let that race who is good at blowing stuff up through! <laughs> Lots of different routes you could take with this one, and I will enjoy reading where you take us!
iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/lyra_____surprise____by_sirponylancelot-d4i1evk.gif
Her expression at finding out her new 'boyfriend' can last, on average, 20-30 times longer than a stallion...
1701142
True, but the sheer simplification of the worst our world has to offer makes everything seem so much worse than it might be. We may have our
darker parts and history but we aren't as monstrous as we think we are.
1700825>>1701142
Jason does have a point there, humans are not exactly the most innocent people of the bunch. They are capable of doing great things, great and terrible things. Probably did Equestria a favor of what they can expect from humans, for that matter
WRITE MORE AND TYPE MORE NAOW!!!!!!
Ow, Jason's description of humans is so butchered it hurts, but you know what? I'm pretty sure that is the best this guy knows. Jason might not be too bright. Being put on the spot by an immortal ruler doesn't help at all. By the way, Celestia would you care to explain sheep in your world?
1701228 Not to mention at 3 in the morning when his sleeping pattern was all screwed up by Lyra in the first place
Jason wins the worst explainer of all time award... Wow just wow...
Humans are both the most cruel capricous things on our planet. But also we are the most gentle and thoughtful on this world too. Humans are so varied that one does not simply tell somebod....pony about the goods and bads of the world. Im suprised though he didnt even tell her about the holocaust. Or the massive amount of serial killers. So he did relatively good
This is why we don't let people like him negotiate. I mean, seriously, does he have a brain. He should have just small talked, or I don't know, let someone else negotiate. You don't bring those up when you're talking with someone else. He better have mentioned Ghandi. Cause he was the greatest, nicest guy ever...actually, why doesn't anyone do a fic about him?
Actually, I'm kind of afraid for our hero now. Once Mol- er, Celestia hears humans last ten times longer than a stallion (at the minimum)... well, men might start dissapearing.
Ahhh! Run for your lives! Ponies want our men! For lots of sex and those magic fingers!
...uh... waitasec...
Also Im just gonna go and say it but I see humans becoming some of the best lovers in Equestria. Endurance and fingers hehehe that would be amazing.
Is "not having nonfiction books in your house" a thing? Seriously, even sleep deprived, I could stagger over to my bookshelves, say "read these, this, this, this, these, and that, then get back to me" and not horribly botch the first contact with the ruling deity of another plane.
Sorry. I love the story, my inner Twilight just had her jimmies rustled.
He tells Celestia about all the bad stuff we do and lacks the good things? dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/sillyfilly_Sweetie_Belle.png {Aw, come on!)
No Ghandi? No Mother Theresa? No UN Charta? No Bill of Rights? No Olympic Games? Or any other good achievements of mankind?
But no... instead he goes "MAN!"
[youtube=sTg5Ldqm8ME]
Life lesson:
Never give an improper presentation about mankind to a sun goddess in the middle of the night!
You're unprepared, don't think clearly enough and give reason to start a conversion bureau!
Jason ain't the smartest of fellows, is he? I mean, he could of at least had above-basic knowledge of the world.
Still, the last part of the story wasn't so bad.
Hahahah I love the tears in this thread. "Oh he's giving such a bad example of human history! He should leave out all the bad bits abloo abloo abloo."
Thank you AP for being one of the very few authors who tell human history pretty straight to the ponies. We're a bunch of right bastards and have been most of our history.
1700825 Honestly sounds like he had all the important bits.
Question: Does Jason not have a computer with internet or is he just a MASSIVE derp. I mean seriously, just go to the computer and pull up a documentary on human history or something like that! Although I'm not surprised by Celestia's reaction to the concept of religion, I share her sentiments for the most part.
I don't really get why everyone is QQing over how human history is represented...
Sure we have our optimistic moments, and only governmental action, not personal actions or beliefs, were mentioned, but...
You have to admit that we pretty much suck. And a majority of human achievement were either results of conflict or some type of oppression, or were later used to cause conflict and oppression.
You can't win 'em all.
1701724
I don't think I'd mind too much about it if he said that not all humans are murdering, slaving, virgin-raping fools.
And when it came to dangers he forgot M.A.D and the Cold War, or the Cuban Crisis. Y'know, NUCLEAR BOMBS.
But that's okay, it's not like we could destroy all of Canterlot with one or anything. /sarcasm.
1702145
History is very susceptible to individual interpretation. Looking at history one way we really are murdering, slaving, virgin-raping fools. I mean the period of time in history where we've treated each other with anything other than immediate genocide is pretty short compared to the rest of history and even then people aren't keen to help members of their own ethnic/national group out. These are huge generalizations and even with a good appreciation of history if some sort of crazy giant talking unicorn with a horn long enough to impale me woke my ass up at 3 am, even with coffee I'd probably mangle describing my species horribly as well.
Besides, "We aren't all bastards," would take a lot of time to justify in the context of history since we always put the bastards into power and they do kind of lead the rest of us to do horrible horrible things.
Getting away from any sort of in story justification now and just thinking about this. How in the hell could you possibly give a short condensed version of humankind under duress to a being that oversees a nation currently in a state of eudaimonia and not make us sound like 80% chthonic monsters without ignoring vast periods of our history I will never know. Really the situation is a giant screw and I like the idea of a guy freaking out and just telling it how it is rather than sugar-coating it like every other author does.
/rant (well I never really STOP ranting...)
1702204
Well, there are some things we did right. But I see your point. Our history doesn't make us seem very nice. At all, really.
Although I would like to point out that if I was under duress by some demi-god, I'd at least point out that Americans aren't the only ones good at war. Plus, why the heck would he point out that once upon a time people were rewarded with 72 virgins...
... And NOT warn the ruler of a land that, hey, we've got weapons that can destroy your entire civilization in just a few shots! I mean, I guess that's my main complaint. You'd think that'd be important. Like saying:
"Hey, don't piss off our rulers, we've got city-busters." or something to that effect.
1702261
Heh, well said. The entire situation is a screw, I think that he's more worried about pissing her off since she can cause horrible magically induced head-aches. He doesn't really know that ponies are pretty much super benevolent, even Celestia. So maybe he thought keeping the biggest examples of our modern abilities to cause violence out of it would be the best course?
Also given how bad they seemed to derail a conversation (Yes let's talk about ORGANIZED RELIGION, this cannot in anyway backfire) maybe he was just trying to not make things worse. He of course did, but I could totally see, "Don't talk about nukes and any of the major world wars, let's not get me killed and eaten," being a thought process of our poor protagonist at that point. Perhaps not a logical or correct thought process but it could be believed self-preservation at that point. Or not giving those "godless alien commie horses," information on our super-duper-American-apple-pie-nuclear weapons.
If we really want to analyze this, Celestia should have some appreciation for the fact that we have slowly started to claw our way out from 10000+ years of barbarism; especially given that we're a predator species. That we've overcome as much as we have in the past hundred years is impressive to me but given that ponies seem to have overcome almost all violent conflict they're probably hundreds if not thousands of years ahead of us. It makes it difficult to really talk in their frame of reference. How do you explain 'unenlightened' people to those living in a utopia? It's an interesting question that someone should spend some time on but all in all, I can't blame our protagonist for not really dealing with. Were it me, I would have polished off a bottle of rum before even dealing with the fact that Celestia wasn't a really bad hallucination.
1700922
Awesome chapter! Can't wait for the next chapter.
1702353
Forgot our protagonist doesn't know how benevolent ponies are. Usually that's the first thing covered in an HiE. Oops. My bad. So self-preservation makes more sense to me than it did before.
"super-duper-American-apple-pie-nuclear weapons." For the rest of my life, that's what I'm going to call nuclear weapons!
" I would have polished off a bottle of rum before even dealing with the fact that Celestia wasn't a really bad hallucination." Provided she wasn't a hallucination, (And I had the knowledge I have now from the show) I'd probably try to assassinate her. (OH NO! DANGER! OFF TOPIC PARAGRAPH AHEAD!)
I mean, she banished her sister to the moon, just because Luna wanted to be a little bit more appreciated. She didn't want endless night, just some ponies to enjoy all the effort she puts in. The stars and such. Celestia just has a big burning ball of gas that can blind you. And it also seems like she's a dictator. Maybe this is American brainwashing seeping into my head, but I'd much rather be ruled by something more democratic, like a constitutional monarchy or something. (New Lunar Republic anyone?) Plus I just think she's a tyrant. (OFF TOPIC PARAGRAPH OVER! YAY!)
*giggle* Nuclear pies.
1702204
Fun Fact: Telling a biased and single perspective story of human history does not in fact mean he's telling it how it is. I'll give the author credit for making a somewhat amusing, if not offensive at times, portrayal of humans that is incredibly inaccurate and biased. His character being put on the spot like that would be a difficult position. If that's what the author really believes however, then there leaves much to be desired.
I do find your views of human interactions throughout history somewhat skewed. You seem believe that before a relatively recent time genocide was the normal way groups of humans greeted other groups of humans. I'm not going to argue that genocide has not occurred throughout human history, because it has, but I will argue that your statement is incorrect. Generally speaking groups of people sought to control resources and at times dominate other people; but generally this did not lead to the systematic killing of entire peoples. You can make the argument that genocides happened, but you cannot make the argument that genocide is humanity's modus operandi.
Bonus quote for laughs from a Skype conversation with this man: Invictus
1701724
Well even I let my human hero tell Celestia about mankind. But not only mushroom clouds and all the atrocities of mankind. Culture, art, music... None of this is mentioned. Only the horrors of mankind. To make it clear: We're not mad he talked about our bad side. We're mad because this is the only thing he talks about. True... Americans are good at war. They conquered their land, but the Bill of Rights and the US Constituition are by far the best documents for the rights of the American people. Any man, woman or child has godgiven rights and no one may take these rights away and all this. If Jason would have told her about things like that as well, I wouldn't complain. But he didn't. dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/shrug_Derpy_Hooves.png
1700922
Possible solution for Celestia: Get rid of his headaches, take him to Equestria on Lyra's behalfdl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Lyra.png , close the rogue portal forever. Further let Lyra write down the spell for portal creation, decree controlled portal usage by law.
Also don't spread around that humans can endure longer than stallions while in Equestria. During heat season, it won't need the "Want it need it" spell to let the mares of Ponyville go crazy for such a "sexwonder" in pony terms. On the other hand.... a "manhunt" for Jason where every mare hunts after him... Been there, done that.dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/misc_Twilight_crazy.png Funny as hell!
1702773 Yes, because Equestria's history isn't pockmarked with terrible shit.
Explaining Equestria like that would be like 'so tell me about the nations of your world', 'well, there's the pegasi. They're good at flying. There's the earth ponies who grow stuff, and unicorns who can do magic '
Because Equestria's history isn't steeped in war.
ooooo
World building, serious stuff, feels, this story gets better and better
1702838
Oh, hey, let me tell you all about ponies! For a significant chunk of their history, ponies were a bunch of aggressive, infighting racist dicks. The pegasi were war-like and clearly fought all the time, while the unicorns jealously hoarded most of the wealth and shelter brought about by their unique racial ability to do magic. The two of them very clearly used their inborn advantages to unfairly put the burden of feeding ALL ponies on the one race who has no discernable way of defending themselves (earth ponies). They fought so much and had so much hatred for each other that they actually attracted the attention of magical creatures that feed off of those emotions, which subsequently turned their previous pristine home into a frost-covered wasteland.
Through their direct actions, they actually destroyed an entire ecosystem.
But, yeah, ponies are saints.
See, you can look at literally ANY history and make it look terrible if you only take the terrible events from it. Wars and serial killers and genocides are considered atrocities precisely because they're uncommon. If they were a common fact of life, then we wouldn't make such a big fuss about them.
Here's a fact for everyone to consider. In 1990, an estimated 3.7% of all deaths in the world were violence related. This includes suicides, which were by far the largest single contributor to this count (yes, even more than war).
This is (and should be) considered unacceptably high (and has since dropped, by the latest counts).
But that means 96.3% of all deaths were actually caused by natural causes. We're not the bastards, the universe is. And the vast, vast majority of human beings go their lives without ever having to kill or be killed. Statistically speaking, we're NOT murderous monsters at all.
BUT... this is your story and your story's comment section, not a place to start an argument about human nature, so I'll say no more. You're welcome to do what you like with your own character's views. I just find it extremely disheartening that people have somehow arrived at the conclusion that the misanthropic view is the enlightened one, when a detailed study of history, economics, science, and psychology reveals that the opposite is true.
Sorry for the long rant, and in the spirit of fairness, I'll leave you with my opinion that, while I do not agree with the views on humanity presented in your story, I think it is otherwise well-written and entertaining.
1702773
How is it inaccurate? It's one sided, and depending on perspective could be biased for sure but how is talking about our history of warfare inaccurate? Unless you're saying that they didn't happen?
Why the personal attacks on the author? We have no way to know if this is how he actually believes about humanity so why even bring it up? Even if he did it's no more valid than, "Americans are the biggest force of evil in the world," or "Everyone needs to be like <country X> because they're the best!" Our interpretations of history, its ups and (mostly in my opinion) downs are incredibly subjective and biased and garbage because we're flawed imperfect beings. This is just another normal person's biased perspective on the world around him. It's totally human for him not to be a walking history degree with years of diplomatic experience. Him totally screwing everything up, sticking his foot so far in his mouth that it emerges from the other side is so believable to me that it makes the protagonist a real character.
Sure him starting by discussing Plato and Aristotle style ethics and going from there would have been optimal but I think that would only make me inclined to believe that he was a less realistic character because that kind of knowledge, ability to speak under pressure and such really aren't incredibly common traits/skills.
Now it's on Celestia's head if she's dumb enough to simply go on what he told him, or to judge an entire species on the slightly drunken, scared ramblings of one member. But his opinion on the world, while one sided, is just as valid as any other when you're dealing with something as fallible and subjective as history. (and I'm not even going into the concepts of dissonant histories)
hay us Australians ain't all criminals!
some of us were settlers that used the criminals as slaves....
1702983
1703031
Plus, talking about the great things our society has done, like music, poetry, great constructions like the pyramids, the great wall of china, awesome shit like Bob Marley, peacekeeping missions and whatnot. That shit is boooooring. Hence why Jason went 'well shit, that's sums it up nicely BUT' and then scene change. He added other stuff, I just didn't feel like exposition on the subject because it would have degenerated into interesting, but ultimately boring pandering on the differences between humans and ponies.
1703145
Heh, fair enough. I also want to make it clear that I wasn't hating on you personally, nor your story... I was reacting to the words of a character within your story.
Far more than that, though, I was reacting to some of the other comments here, which made me sad. When I get sad, I post my own views on the subject, because it makes me feel better.
Again, it's a nifty story... don't let in-comment arguments dissuade you from writing it as you will.
1703145
He's human! Your average guy in his lack of appreciation and understanding of what he should have said because he's not very good at xenodiplomacy (ohh new name for a story). Heck even if we assume that Jason said a lot of things like our great move from monarchies and oligarchies to more democratic forms of government, how can we assume that's a 'good thing' to ponies. They don't seemed to have any preference to self-governance (given they have an endless monarchy that rules over them and not only that but gives them directed morals they are to aim for [harmony]), and I"m not sure a lot of the things would really impress them that much. It could go either way. In AP's writing he's written that Celestia is (seemingly) less impressed with our 'good' works and more shocked at our 'bad'. Which again seems to be just as justifiable as looking at Celestia as 'Trollestia'.
I mean hell, maybe it was the domestication of the horse that pissed her off more than the Crusades and every World War combined? "Well my own ponies did bad things in the past, you did say you put that Hitler guy down afterall. Anything else? Species defining events?" "Well we domesticated the dog. Oh and horses as well, they..." "TO THE MOON WITH THEE FOUL APE."
Love it!
1703344 It's not a factual statement. Jason fucked that up, not me.
And Lyra is out of character? Out of... which character exactly? The standing-ithe-background-and-never-talking character?