The last thing Cozy Glow knew, she was about to be stoned; suddenly, she's in a mountain cabin, with Twilight Velvet asking her to color. What's the meaning of this?! Is Cozy Glow going to be ... redeemed? Or punished?!
Twilight Velvet knows one thing that her daughter Princess Twilight Sparkle has forgotten; that Cozy Glow might be a wannabe despot, a power-hungry pegasus who allied herself with Chrysalis and Tirek, but in the end ... she was only a filly. Twilight Velvet is determined to see just what kind of filly Cozy Glow really is, at her core. But can she be saved? Or is Cozy Glow truly irredeemable?
Written for the 2021 Cozy Glow Short Story Contest, for the prompt of "Cozy makes an unusual friend."
Chapters (1)
Please continue. I must know what happens next.
And what's that supposed to mean?
10983605
Twilight don't like it when somepony trying to do what "Princess of Friendship" can't do:Reform a filly
Needs sequel
This is a very good story. Velvet was great, although I do wonder what Night Light would say about this. Her interactions with Cozy were very cute and I do like this pairing. I wouldn't mind a sequel if you are ever willing. There is certainly room for it.
10983628
But it's her own dang mother!!!! And I doubt that Twilight of all ponies will talk back to her parent like that.
Oh man THIS THIS THIS should have been the end of "School Raze" and Cozy's story. What idiot FiM Writer ever came up with the idea that turning a FILLY to stone is okay? What message does THAT send to little girls / little children? OBEY the ADULTS or you will suffer the worst fate imaginable?!
10983771
She's not. That's the mailmare talking to Velvet, not Twilight .
10983808
The message could also be that some crimes are serious enough so that your young age will not let you evade very serious punishment.
To me, it was also a good thing that the show finally had villains who would not just apologize and be forgiven/reformed after they were defeated. A bit more realistic that way...
Would you consider writing a sequel? This is honestly good and nobody expected Velvet of all ponies to help redeem Cozy, but it fits. A mother would be the best one to help a mentally damaged filly.
10983973
The problems with those thoughts though are that Cozy's crimes really aren't that much worse than most of the reformed villains, almost everything she's done is something they also did or is at least comparable to something they did. The other problem is that most of the reformed villains didn't apologize on their own, except for the ones that got rainbow lasered into being remorseful, most of them were reasoned with or given help of some kind that helped change their mind, something which Cozy didn't get. Literally the most she got was Twilight asking her "Why?" and then when Cozy gives her "Friendship is Power" reasoning, everybody just takes it at face value and gives up. No attempts to reason with her or change her mind, no attempts to dig deeper and see if there's anything more than that, nope straight to Tartarus, and then later into a statue she goes.
I would never have thought of this combination, but you make it work. And it makes sense. Wonderful work.
An interesting story that’s for sure, I can’t really see it as being what Canon Cozy would act like, she’s young yes but not this young or naive, she understands right and wrong.
Also kinda feels weird that Velvet’s angry at Twi for stoning Cozy when it wasn’t even Twi who did that.
More over that she teleported both of them into an isolated environment with a pony who moments before was shown to happily attempt to kill two members of her family. I get that that’s a bit if a nitpick but I was actually expecting Cozy to bring it up, that Velvet was still happy to help despite those things.
It’s a nicely written story over all and do like your portrayal Velvet, her argument were an excellent way to trap cozy’s logic. But I think you tone downed Cozy a lot to fit the story, which is fine, a lot of other stories do that.
10983989
I gotta disagree, while what other villains did were on pare with what she did. All the others that were reformed had a reason behind it, not all of them were solid (Starlight’s backstory was kinda weak) but not only did they have a reason, most saw as what they were doing as a good thing.
Sombra, Tirek, Chrysalis and indeed Cozy Glow actively knew what they were doing was bad.
Twilight asked why and got her answer, cos Cozy did it for power and then tried to run away. That’s it.
All the other villains had to see what they were doing was wrong in order to reform, so they could then redeem themselves. Cozy didn’t want to, so best thing to do is to put her in Tartarus as punishment, for her to hopefully learn her lessons over time. We never got that because of Grogar/discord but that’s another matter.
I need to know what happens next! Something like this is what should've happened to Cozy Glow, an actual attempt to understand why she is the way she is instead of just resorting to the nuclear option in both cases.
I like the story. It doesn't feel complete though. It really could use a follow-up/sequel.
10984244
Discord basically did everything he did for fun. Yeah, he's the "Spirit of Chaos and Disharmony" and needs it to survive, but he clearly never needed to go as overboard as he did, and he was (And still kind of is) a total sadist to boot, he clearly enjoyed twisting the Mane Six's minds the way he did. Starlight's entire philosophy was basically just an excuse to have control over others and have "Friends" who wouldn't be able to leave her. Tempest wanted her horn back and was just willing to selfishly destroy others lives to get it. Yes, they had reasons for what they did but that doesn't excuse their actions.
Also, why does Cozy want power? What for? Is her motivation really that simple or is there a deeper reason? She's a manipulative liar, if there's any deeper reasoning she's probably not going to reveal it outright, why would Twilight just take what she says at face value? Why just believe her? And even if her reasoning is really that simple, why not try and help her anyway? I mean, Discord's reasoning is basically "Chaos is fun and I just want to do what I want lol" but they were still able to reach him.
Discord originally didn't reform because he was shown what he was doing was wrong, he was reformed because Fluttershy gave him nigh-unconditional friendship and he realized it was something he wanted badly enough that he'd be willing to restrain himself for it. Remorse only started to come later on, and even then he's only remorseful for certain things, not all of it. As late as Season 6 he would still happily reminisce over things like "Trapping best pony friends in hedge mazes and turning them against each other".
Also, when has the "Lock them away and hope they learn their lesson" tactic ever worked in this show? It didn't work on Discord, it didn't work on Nightmare Moon/Luna, it didn't work on Tirek, it didn't work on Sombra. It has not worked on a single villain in the show's entire run, and why even would it? They aren't getting any help in those situations, they're either in stasis and thus unaffected or they're just rotting in boredom and loneliness, which if anything would only make them worse. If it hasn't worked on any of the others, why would it work on Cozy? Why not try the more successful method of actually trying to reach out and befriend her or show her a better way? That's how Discord was reformed, that's how Twilight got through to Starlight. Even Tempest only reformed because Twilight straight up saved her life, and sacrificed a chance to grab the Staff of Sacanas in the process, and thus putting all of Equestria at risk for her "Because this is what friends do". They were all shown a better way, or a way to get what they want without being so evil, that's why they changed.
10983989
It's also the way the show handled the concept of "Friendship is Magic".
On one hand, "friendship" is a good way to live, something applicable to the real life. However, for Twilight, her friendship with 5 other ponies gives her the ability to shoot rainbow lasers, so, it is literally power.
Cozy Glow and Neighsay both took that interpretation (Neighsay did not want Twilight to teach "friendship" to the citizens of other countries because, to him, it sounded almost like "nuclear weapon building school" would sound in real life"). Cozy, of course, wanted the power for herself.
Trying to persuade Cozy that friendship is not power would have logical contradictions, so she was pretty much treated like someone who learned a bit about nuclear physics, decided to build a bomb and was caught seconds before detonation.
I probably am biased here. I like to watch detective shows and a lot of the times, when there is a criminal who is a kid, he gets off lightly for a serious crime (usually murder), so seeing a kid getting actually punished for her crimes was refreshing to me.
10984268
Discord is indeed the strange one. Being the creature of chaos he didn’t know anything before fluttershy, mainly cos no one to stand up to his power long enough to give him reason to care. It takes Tirek portraying him to realise what he truly lost. That said he should have been punished for trying to mess up Twilight’s coronation, that was a line too far that needed punishments.
Tempest not only lost her horn but also
Became completely isolated from her friends believing friendship was worthless and became completely selfish because of it. Getting her horn was her only motive. Honestly she’d probably still be evil if Storm king hadn’t betrayed her.
Starlight created a cult that couldn’t help but stay as friends, while she clearly thought equality was a good way to live it was mainly to find away her abandonment issues.
It not about excusing their actions, but they both had a mindset that once given a chance could reform.
I’d cozy’s motivation that simple, according to the show yeah. Could there be a different motivator, sure and it’s a great idea for fan content. It as is Cozy’s just wants pose and control same as Chrysalis. Feel like people demanding for cozy to be reformed are just more annoyed that we didn’t get a solid backstory for her (but that’s another topic and my personal opinion).
I agree with the last points, locking them away hasn’t worked but at least in this position that can then later be brought back into a position to where reformation is possible, like discord was.
Luna/nightmare is a little messy cos I doubt Celestia actually had control over how long we was sending her away for, but it at least gave her time to prepare.
But Twilight did reach out to Cozy, she asked why. And Cosy said it was for power and ran away. Cozy can’t be reformed cos she doesn’t want to be. It’s not Twilight’s fault that Cozy saw friendship as an opportunity to gain that power rather then friendship.
10984307
The goal shouldn't be to try and convince her that Friendship isn't power, because it clearly is. Even Twilight outright agrees with Cozy that friendship is powerful. The point should be to try and show her that there's more to it than just that, that there's value in friendship beyond just the power it holds, that it's worth it to care for others rather than just using them, to share that power rather than trying to greedily take it all for herself.
The problem is that Cozy's punishment doesn't exist in a vacuum, it still exists within the context of the rest of the show, where we've seen other similarly awful villains do horrible things but still be helped and given further chances. Cozy's treatment contradicts previous lessons and ends up making all the heroes look like total hypocrites, especially so due to her being a child. I'm pretty sure the treatment of Cozy was decided on by the writers to be "Subversive" and do something refreshing like you say, but there was seemingly very little thought given to how to do that while still keeping it in-character and in the spirit of the show.
10984318
No, I'm annoyed that when faced with a little pegasus filly, with no special powers or abilities beyond being manipulative, rather than trying to reach out and reform her like they had so many villains in the past, they just gave up on her when she didn't immediately fall down and beg for forgiveness. I'm personally not bothered as much as others by Cozy's lack of backstory, I wouldn't have minded one, but I also kind of like the mystery of it. I'm annoyed by how the heroes treated her, because I feel it was hypocritical and immoral.
But why lock her up in the first place? She's not super dangerous, she relies on manipulation, magical artifacts and other villains to do most of what she does. Just look at what happened with Rusty Bucket, he didn't know who Cozy was and even wanted to be her friend, but he was still able to reduce her to nothing more than a whiny little brat just by saying "No". She's just not dangerous enough on her own to warrant being locked away rather than trying to help her. I get it with someone like Tirek who can drain magic, so if you don't have some way to stop that he's super dangerous, but Cozy is physically just a filly.
Plus, locking her away is stupid, because the longer she goes with her current mindset and the older she get's with it the harder it's going to be to change her mind. It'd be best to try and change her now while she's young and her brain is more malleable. If they want to change her then putting it off will only make it more difficult.
Just asking why isn't a reformation attempt though, it's barely anything. It's the equivalent of signing your name at the top of a test and then going "Welp, I'm done!". Saying Cozy can't be reformed because she doesn't want to be is ridiculous because neither did Discord, he didn't want to reform and laughed at the concept, but he got a whole 22 minute episode of Flutershy devotedly trying to change his mind anyway. Why not try something like that with Cozy? Why not try to change her mind? Why not actually put some effort in instead of giving up at literally the first obstacle?
10984323
Thinking of other villains - the ones who got reformed without the use of rainbow lasers AFAIR were Starlight and Discord.
Starlight was probably only reformed because the alternate future turned out to be a wasteland and it was shown to her. Only then she confessed that she wanted friends (not power).
Discord's reformation is interesting, though it can probably be said that Discord was never truly evil, he just did not know how to have fun without hurting others.
Cozy was really evil. She wanted friendship, but only for its power (unlike Starlight) and went to great lengths to achieve her goal (draining all magic from Equestria, probably dooming everyone). Also, being manipulative makes her extremely dangerous, probably more dangerous than someone with more power, but not as manipulative would be. It also makes her untrustworthy, since she would quickly learn what to do and say to be considered "reformed" (I would love to read a fic where someone tries to reform Cozy, only to be betrayed by her).
Though yeah, the show could have had an episode where they try to reform Cozy and fail, having to lock her up (locking someone up serves two functions - it is punishment, but also a way to protect the society from the criminal).
10984364
Tempest Shadow too, since the movie is canon to the show and serves as the set up for Season 8. Stygian as well, though arguably he was never evil, since his original motivation was just that he wanted to be able to fight alongside the pillars and the Pony of Shadows actually seems to be a separate entity possessing him.
Starlight wanted friends, yes, but she also wanted control. She was a cult leader who ruled through fear and intimidation, even using brainwashing tactics on her followers When they turned on her she tried to attack some of them with magic which Twilight blocked. She has other instances of violence too, like encasing Twilight and Spike in a crystal falling to their deaths or even shooting filly Rainbow Dash with a laser beam, so she wasn't even above harming children. Plus, even after seeing that wasteland timeline she almost rips the time spell apart anyway just to spite Twilight. Sure, she was trying to justify it that Twilight could have faked that, but she's clearly not certain of that, but was willing to take the chance. Yes, she had a deeper reasoning behind it all, but she was still controlling, selfish and violent and almost ended the world because of it.
Discord also absolutely was evil and even outright sadistic. He showed he could brainwash people just by touching them like he did with Fluttershy, but instead went out of his way to purposely mess with the Mane Six's heads and turn them against their Elements without that, seemingly just for the pleasure of doing so. He was pretty cruel.
Yes, she was genuinely evil but so was Starlight no matter how she tries to justify it, and so was Discord, and so was Tempest. She might have doomed everyone, but so did Starlight almost. Plus, you're acting like she was the only manipulative villain we saw, but again so was Starlight. Starlight was a cult leader, she was clearly shown to be both manipulative and charismatic. I could totally buy she could fake a reform if she wanted to. Discord too, like I mentioned can even brainwash people with a touch if he so feels. Cozy's not unique in this regard, the possibility of getting betrayed is one you take when you reform villains in general, it's not unique to Cozy. It's even one they've faced before with Discord, they still forgave him anyway.
See, if they'd actually tried to reform her and failed I'd be a lot less bothered. I'm not sure how well a truly irredeemable child villain fits in a show like FiM, feels out of place, but at least it wouldn't make the heroes look so bad. I feel they failed to live up to their own morals and values with the way they treated her.
I've always felt punishment should serve a purpose of some kind. Whether it be to teach a lesson or to protect others like you said. Locking her in Tartarus probably won't do the first because it hasn't for anyone else, and for protection it's just excessive. A normal jail could serve her just as well, we know they exist since Troubleshoes got put in one. Same thing with her getting stoned. Her punishments kind of just feel vindictive, punishment purely for punishment's sake which I don't see much value in.
10983973
I agree, this is a good thing, having adults that are unapologetic, won't be redeemed; that's not what I'm talking about. What grinds my gears is that this same severe punishment, the highest one Equestria has, was used upon a child, a filly, effectively the cartoon analogue of the same children who watch the show. Cozy should have been the final redemption, is what I'm saying--I agree with @Princessbase74--but they didn't try to help Cozy. No look into her past, why she is the way she is, no Twilight rounding on Celestia, "Hey, NO, I'm going to have to step up and assert my own Princess-rank here, why are we applying this punishment to a foal?"
When it comes to Cozy turning to stone, I'm more disappointed in Discord than Twilight. He broke his unspoken rule about not turning ponies into stone.
I really liked this story. And it's only a guess, but this feels inspired by none other than Mr. Rogers, right down to a visit from a friendly mail carrier. Even if I'm wrong and it wasn't a direct influence, it's such a good way of writing a reformation story for Cozy Glow. I never personally minded the way the story ended or Cozy being a straight up unrepentant villain on the show. However, devious and clever as she was, this story highlights the importance of someone teaching you to understand and love, while loving you just the way you are.
It's a lovely story.
10984364
10984323
Discord intentionally brought Sombra back from the dead just to get him killed again. He intentionally then let all of the Crystal Empire be enslaved. Sorry, but that is Dracula level evil actions. The argument could be made that there are a few characters that hold his interest and everyone else is completely expendable. There is a good video on how the Ending of the End pretty much destroyed his character:
MLP:FiM Finale - The Grogar Twist And How It Ruined Discord - YouTube
Was she? She seemed to make a deliberate effort to not seriously harm her opponents. For example the royal guard unicorns were dropped in the shallow moat rather than off the cliff. If she wanted to kill Twilight why did she not die at the end of Ending of the End part 1 (she lasered Twilight with no defenses)? Only possible answer is she elected not to. It is clear she can show regret for her actions (Marks for the Effort).
Btw - the only reason Cozy Glow was able to drain the power from Equestria was because she was able to have a pen pal relationship with Tirek. So who was delivering the messages?! You eliminate normal mail (not possible in Tartarus), the alicorns (unlikely to allow with a filly and, even if they did, they would certainly be read) that leaves only one creature capable of delivering them. Discord.
This is an interesting statement. Twilight is saying friendship is powerful but Cozy Glow replies that certain aspects of friendship are useless. It would be more precise to say Twilight believes in actual friendship and Cozy Glow version of "friendship" is merely in cooperation.
The whole Cozy Glow part of the show is just weird. No apparent parents living in a town (alone?) and going to a special school. The most logical is she is living in a dorm at the school. The show made a serious point in the episode "Growing Up is Hard to Do" that a filly her age still needs adult supervision but kind of ignore that rule in her case.
All of Cozy Glows actions were quite preventable (Twilight leaving dangerous artifacts around, Discord breaking out Cozy, someone allowing a penpal relationship with Tirek, etc.). I ran into a quote that seems on point here:
- Frank Herbert (Dune)
10984412
In my honest opinion I feel like the show was setting up the evil three to be redeemed and have Grogar be the final villain (probably drain the other villains and have them work together with the pones to beat him) but decided to go with a "twist" with discord and his character assassination for an unnecessary wtf moment. So to make up for that, they had the three villain's evil characteristics ramped up in the finale to justify that decision. They were evil but they honestly felt pretty ooc during the two parter. I can't place my finger on why though...
10984412
"Why are we giving this punishment to a foal?"
Proceed to list off the crimes she willingly/knowingly committed and then ask that again.
10984403
From what I remember about Tempest was that she was betrayed by her employer (Storm King) and switched her allegiance to the heroes. Something that happens in the movies not too infrequently. I don't really think Tempest was reformed at all, just that she decided it's better to work with Equestria. As for why she hasn't been sent to prison for her crimes, well, maybe she was, that's why she has not appeared in the show.
Stygian was possessed, so not really evil, even his intentions were not evil, the others just misunderstood them. The same can probably be said about Luna (the Elements either killed/drove away the entity that possessed her or brainwashed her into being good, the former is more likely).
Starlight started on the road paved with good intentions and followed it straight to hell :) The first few residents of her village were probably volunteers , believing the propaganda (cutie marks are what makes us different and hate each other, get rid of them and we'll be happy). Then someone changed his mind and this was perceived as "no longer wanting to be friends, being enemy of the people" and since such pony is clearly misguided, he only needs some re-education :) And then things got worse over time. I do not think that Starlight started "Our Town" with the intention of controlling everyone and forcing them to be her friends.
Then, after everything as taken away from her (as she now believed) and she, being prone to over-complicated plans, decided to use time travel to prevent it.
10984412
As I said, I have been watching far too many detective/police shows and seeing a child not get away with a serious crime was refreshing to me. I think that some crimes require too much deliberate action and thought that it demonstrates that the perpetrator is mentally older than their age. Cozy's plan to take over the school and drain the magic was something like that. I don't think the CMCs, for example, could have done it (if they wanted to).
But yeah, seeing them try to reform her and fail (especially if that involved some bad consequences) would have been even better for me.
10984656
Sombra could have chosen teamwork, but, I guess, he never learned from his mistakes.
I do not like the entire Discord/Grogar plan. I think the show went downhill with it. This was supposed to show Twilight that she was capable of replacing Celestia. I guess Twilight believed it, but this in no way does that. For one, being able to beat others up does not make you good at negotiations with other countries, fixing the tax laws and such. And second, in the entire show Celestia never beat anyone up, she always sent Twilight as a one-pony Spetsnaz team.
So, a better test would have been to tell Twilight that she cannot fight at all, and only send the student 6 or the CMCs to fight :)
As for why Cozy did not try to kill anyone - I think that it's because this is a show for children. IIRC only Sombra gets killed in the entire show, everyone else gets reformed, arrested, stoned, etc.
As for who was delivering letters to Tartarus - maybe its prisoners have communication privileges, just like prisoners in real life prisons.
The way I understand it, Cozy did not take "friendship" to mean "cooperation", but instead she went straight to "friendship" -> rainbow lasers. She thought that friendship is a separate form of magic, so, by eliminating regular magic and taking over the school, she would force everyone to be her friends and use them as fuel for laser attacks with others being unable to defend themselves because of no magic.
And yes, leaving dangerous artifacts lying around is a stupid idea. Then again, maybe we are overthinking a TV show for children :). I do not completely agree with the quote though, at least depending on what he means by "trouble", because in a society that is less restrictive than the one depicted in 1984 an insane person would be able to kill some people before getting caught.
10984811
First she was betrayed, then Twilight saved her life from the storm the Storm King had made, even giving up a chance to grab the staff containing the Alicorn magic to do so. That's why Tempest changed, and we know she wasn't sent to prison for her crimes because Twilight talks about her in the Season 8 premiere, saying she invited Tempest to come to Ponyville but she declined because she wanted to spread the word of the Storm King's defeat. She also appears in the Season 9 finale, both helping in the battle against the trio and at Twilight's coronation. So nope, she basically got off free.
Pretty much agreed on Stygian, but in the show Luna never treats Nightmare Moon as a separate entity, she always views it as herself. My best guess as to what the Elements did is to peel back the negative emotions consuming her and allow her the mental clarity to see what she was doing. In this case I guess I'd compare her being in the Nightmare Moon state almost to a mental illness of some kind, with the Elements basically acting as one big, fast-acting dose of medication. Not really brainwashing, not forcing her to think differently, just letting her think more clearly.
Eh, I'm dubious on Starlight having started out with "Good intentions". I think her philosophy was always basically just a way for her to try and enact control and make "Friends" who wouldn't leave her. She was lying to them from the start about giving up her own Cutie Mark after all. I do imagine that many of them initially joined voluntary, but that wouldn't excuse how she treated them after. Plus, she struggles with enforcing her will on others in Season 6 quite a lot, so it's clearly something she's made quite a habit of for a while.
10983808
And Discord helped, despite his earlier assertion that he doesn't turn ponies to stone.
10983808
Wasn't that the plot of the first episode?
10984739
Not the person you asked, but since Coranth hasn't responded yet I guess I'll humor you.
School Raze: Attempted to drain all magic from Equestria, attempted to trap the Mane Six and Spike in Tartarus, trapped Starlight Glimmer in the magic she was draining and nearly sent her to another dimension, attempted to also get six other students thrown into the magic draining vortex, almost caused students to fall out of the sky to their deaths.
The Ending of the End: Assaulted three Princesses and drained two of their magic, helped break up Equestria's Harmony and bring back the Windigoes, attempted murder of the Mane Six and Spike.
Those are the big ones, there's a bunch of other small stuff I don't remember the specifics of but I don't think would change much since I feel I've listed all the major crimes that people would argue makes her irredeemable or whatever. Now that I'm looking at the list, I have to admit...my opinion remains totally unchanged. They still should have tried to reach out and help her at some point, considering that some of the other reformed villains they've helped have also done similar things before. Starlight Glimmer for instance ran a cult, brainwashing her villagers, at least attempted assault on 5 of them, stalked a Princess and broke into her home, messed with the timeline, assaulted a minor, attempted murder on Twilight and Spike too, and of course the big one of nearly causing the apocalypse and ending the world, unintentionally at first but even after seeing the wasteland timeline, she still nearly tore up the time scroll anyway, which would have made it permanent. All of this while Starlight is an adult, Cozy is a child.
Yes, Starlight was remorseful and stood down...but only after Twilight reached out and reasoned with her, showing her the consequences of her actions, asking about and listening to her backstory, then continuing to reach out a hoof of friendship and offering to help her. With Cozy she only asked "Why?" and did nothing more than that when Cozy didn't immediately offer up some sob story or something. Not to mention I could bring up the whole reformation program Discord went through despite being totally remorseless and like a billion times older than Cozy and way more dangerous considering his level of power.
10984827
I still think Starlight started with reasonably good, if misguided, intentions and ended up where she did. Basically something like the "Animal Farm". All the little justifications she did for herself ("I have to keep my cutie mark because without it I cannot remove the cutie marks of others", "Well, someone has to be in charge") that piled up and we first meet her after all of that, when she has become used to having power.
Then again, this is only my thoughts, there's not much proof in the show, since her backstory was not really elaborated upon. But I still think about how she went from a fairly normal kid who just lost a friend to a small-scale dictator.
10985217
Yeah, I would have loved to see them try and get betrayed for once (instead of always succeeding). The list of crimes is pretty serious, probably the most serious stuff they could put in a TV show for kids (MLP is not going to show ponies getting murdered).
The show being made for kids is one thing that makes discussions like this more difficult. Ponies cannot be shown as really violent or brutal, the various crimes the villains commit probably have to be ranked on a much different scale than they would be in real life as well (hurting a main character is probably a more serious offense than hurting a redshirt).
10985248
We'll just agree to disagree on Starlight then, I suppose it could go either way and it's just a matter of interpretation and whether she started out good or not she was evil by the time she appeared in the show anyway. I don't have a problem with Starlight keeping her cutie mark, because that is necessary. She does need her magic to remove others marks, so even in a scenario where she was totally benevolent and ran her village in a moral manner she'd still need it. I just take issue with her lying about it and keeping it hidden, making up a fake story about some magical staff that does it instead.
I would have liked to have seen the first scenario too, a "Failed reformation" arc could have been pretty interesting and it's a shame the show never touched on such a thing. I wouldn't use Cozy for it though, having an irredeemable child villain in this show doesn't feel like the best fit to me.
Agreed that the crimes have to be ranked on a different scale then in reality, all of the reformed villains likely wouldn't have gotten away with their crimes in reality so easily, MLP is the kind of show where someone can be forgiven for nearly ending the world which wouldn't fly in real life.
I wouldn't go with the idea that hurting a main character is more serious than a redshirt. Hurting a main character is certainly going to have more of an emotional impact on the audience but morally it doesn't matter whether the bad guy punches Applejack or Apple Fritter, they've still hurt someone. I feel like that's the kind of logic that leads to a situation like with Discord in Season 9, where he manipulates and abuses the villains and causes a lot of harm to innocents with his absurd plan but because the main cast all come out of it relatively unscathed it's easily forgiven, which is something I hated about it.
10985217
To be fair to Twilight, in the season 5 finale, she only reached out to Starlight so hard because she had no choice. Starlight and the upper hand/hoof: Twilight couldn't stop her plan with force (which was her default action), so she had to basically beg Starlight to stop, which included reaching out to her. She also didn't really "ask" Starlight what her backstory was, either. She did tell Starlight that she didn't know what happened to her to make her act the way she was, but Starlight choose to show Twi what happened. If Twilight had been able to defeat Starlight in battle beforehand, I don't see anything else other than Starlight being thrown in Tartarus happening, unless she broke down and gave her reasons before Tirek got company in Tartarus.
A point you brought up was that Discord had a whole episode with Fluttershy putting out the stops to reform him. However, Princess Celestia noly asked the mane 6 to reform him because she thought his magic could be useful to Equestria; otherwise, he would have remained a stone. Although this might open up its own can of worms.
All that said, I do think it was a bad call for the show to not reform Cozy. If she had to be inedeemable then, like you, I would have preferred if there was an harder attempt to reform her, but have her keep shutting it down. That way, it will have been clear that she will not reform, and you can't force someone, even a kid, to change if they just don't want to, at least without literally brainwashing them or something.
10985339
True, but Starlight is still also only one example of Twilight's mercy. There's also the time where she called Discord a friend and demanded his release from Tirek even after he'd betrayed her and all her friends and done nothing to earn such forgiveness. He didn't even show any remorse to Twilight until after she did this, only to Fluttershy. This moment is such a significant point for her character, it's what earned her her Rainbow key and also what led to her getting her big crystal
playsetcastle and even her title as Princess of Friendship. There's also the time she risked all of Equestria by choosing to save Tempest Shadow instead of the Staff of Sacanas, all in the name of friendship. Not to mention every other time Twilight has failed to be forgiving or failed to reach out, in episodes like "No Second Prances" with Trixie or "Shadow Play" with the Pony of Shadows/Stygian it was always shown to be a failure on her part that she had to learn from.So there was a character arc here of Twilight and the other cast members increasingly trending towards forgiveness and redemption, and yet no real offer or attempt is ever made with Cozy Glow, an actual child. It's a character arc that basically grounds to a screeching halt and then reverses itself. Twilight and company should know by now that villains, even initially remorseless ones can be reached and helped if they try.
Oh, it opens a big can of worms. If the justification for why they didn't try to reform Cozy but did Discord is usefulness then arguably the show is actually validating Cozy's beliefs. After all if they only reform and put in the effort to try and help people who can be useful to it's not that far away from how she thinks.
10985364
At least to a degree, I kinda have to agree, but I hate to admit it. It's more or less "truth in television" -- people that brings more to the table tends to get chances more easily -- but still.
10985280
I would have loved if they tried to reform Cozy and she turned out to be irredeemable. It would go against the tropes of "child criminal gets away with it" and "children are always basically good" that I have seen on multiple detective stories. But again, that's just my personal preference.
As for hurting main character is more serious - it is like this in a lot of stories, probably because it has the emotional impact on the audience. What's worse than hurting a main character (in fiction)? Hurting an animal (for example a dog). This does not really apply in the real world (maybe a bit), but it seems to apply in fiction and it's only one thing how fictional worlds are different. Unless the fictional story is very grounded in reality (like a detective story, based on somewhat real laws etc).
This is what makes crimes in fantasy worlds, especially in a kids show a bit difficult to compare - also because a lot of the crimes are shown to be easily reversible. For example - Chrysalis abducted Cadance and kept her in the dungeon for days at least, while she replaced her and mind controlled Shining Armor. However, this was shown only briefly (also with a good song) and feels like it was over very fast.
On the other hand, Discord mind-screwing the main 6 is shown for more time on screen, so it feels like it was longer, but it probably did not last long at all.
In both cases, the victims were good as new after the villain was defeated.
Starlight kept her village brainwashed for years, but everyone just forgave her (maybe they are still brainwashed).
Anyway, maybe we should rate the crimes based on how close to the "end of the world" they came?
It's good to finally see a story of where cozy is starting to change into hopefully a better person (or pony in this case). And i like the way velvet is going about it
I loved this story and it's portrayal of Cozy Glow. I think her lack of experience with adults who respect her, makes a fair amount of sense, given her emotional issues in the show.
It's also a neat choice pairing Velvet and Cozy together, and it expands on Velvet's character in a really neat way. It will be interesting to see how this affects her relationship with Twilight going forward.
I will definitely be looking forward to a sequel, if it manifests.
10985576
If we do that, then first place becomes a competition between Starlight in the Season 5 finale and Cozy in Season 8 and it's hard to tell exactly who claims it because a lot is vague and left to interpretation here. Cozy's plan was to drain magic from the world, this seems to affect all Unicorn and Alicorn magic, most creature's magical abilities, and magical artifacts. Though it doesn't seem to affect Pegasi magic since RD can still fly and move clouds even on the final day, which would make sense since Cozy is a pegasus herself and wouldn't want to cripple her own abilities.
Now, the natural assumption is that this would lead to the Sun and Moon no longer being able to be moved and thus half the world burning while the other half freezes, essentially destroying most of the world. The problem is this doesn't match Cozy's goals. Her stated desire is to rule as the "Empress of Friendship" something which wouldn't last very long or go very well if everyone is dead and so is she. So either she doesn't understand the ramifications of her plan, she has some kind of way to get around this, or the sun and moon being stopped isn't as apocalyptic as we thought. There's definitely some evidence to the latter, as in the Nightmare Moon alternate timeline of Season 5 where she's supposedly ruling in Eternal Night and has been for years the world looks pretty fine.
So, I think there's a chance Cozy's plan wouldn't be an "End of the world" scenario. Oh, it would probably destroy Equestrian civilization as we know it and would make life way more difficult, but based on the way it was written it seems the writers didn't intend for this to be an outright end of the world event, Cozy herself doesn't seem to intend it as one either.
On the other hand, the final timeline of "The Cutie Re-Mark" is depicted from what little we see of it as a dead world. No life of any kind, no structures except the remaining friendship map, just grey and dusty and desolate with a dark sky. We don't see very much of it so we can't be certain of it, but that seems to be the intention, as each timeline is stated to be "Worse than the last" and it's the final one. We don't know exactly what within that timeline actually caused this, it's kind of an interesting little mystery, but it's the result of Glimmy screwing with time like she is.
Now, Starlight didn't intend for any of it. She just wanted revenge on Twilight and didn't do her research, she didn't understand how important her and her friends were, but she still caused it. On top of that, even after seeing this she goes into denial and almost tears the time spell apart anyway, claiming that she "Only saw what Twilight wanted her to see". She's clearly not certain of this however, as she showed doubt in her plans when seeing the wasteland, meaning she knows there's a chance it could be real but is so determined to spite Twilight here and get her revenge that she's about to risk it anyway. Of course, Twilight manages to talk her down from here.
So, I'd say Starlight beats out Cozy due to there being evidence that Cozy's plan, while severely damaging wouldn't necessarily have to be the end of things, while all we saw in the brief glimpse of Glimmer's final timeline was seemingly just a dead world. If Cozy's plan was apocalyptic though, somebody probably should have mentioned it to her because she apparently might not have realized that.
10983605
Likely Ditzy making fun of the situation.
Cozy IS still an enemy to Equestria, so she's joking that with the spat between Twilights, Velvet is one as well.
I highly doubt she's considered one, or it wouldn't be Ditzy out there alone.
10985364
Now that you mentioned Trixie and spoke of stopped and reversed character arcs, Twilight actually forgave the Great and Powerful pony back after their magic duel involving the Alicorn Amulet. They helped each other provide a show for some visiting royalty at the end and made amends if I recall correctly.
However, with No Second Prances, Twilight and Trixie hadn’t seen each other for a LOT of seasons, and when they do in the episode, they’re instantly terse and snippy. They try to justify it later in the episode with their own suspicions and hang-ups but it just felt really odd seeing the writers have them backpedal so much, so fast, after that long period of time and what seemed to be a nice reconciliation.
I love MLP but it felt like a lot of characterization and arcs the ponies had, took a backseat a lot of times in the later seasons. I can only speculate that it was because of the usual time limit an episode (or two if it’s a longer season finale) holds while still keeping room for all the new elements to the world and closing the story off relatively nicely while returning to a certain status quo.
More?
10985884
With Twilight I always kinda saw her extra dislike of Trixie in that episode to be due to the involvement of both Starlight and Celestia. Starlight's her first real student and she's being overly-protective by trying to keep potential bad influences away, and with Celestia you know how overboard Twilight can get trying to impress her. Meanwhile Trixie is...Trixie, I guess. It's definitely a backtrack but it's a more forgivable one and at least it's actually acknowledged as wrong for both of them and they make amends again by the end. The situation with Cozy is a major plot of two seasons and instead of fixing it they just doubled down on it in the end.
10985932
Yeah that’s true, it just felt sort of left-field considering the last time they interacted before that episode was 4(?) seasons ago with it ending on a nice note and that they got frigid with each other fast in No Second Prances. I’m not opposed to Twi and Trix having these missteps and hangups but I guess I felt a bit more buildup prior somehow, was necessary to me to make the problem more satisfying to see them struggle through.
And gosh I forgot how long Cosy really was around for. It’s sort of shocking there really was no expansion on who she was beyond “manipulative, power-hungry child.” I always felt a good few antagonists of FiM could have benefited from more expansions of their characters, histories, and motives instead of being villains just because they’re either careless, cruel, craving power, or have crap reasons (looking at you Glim Glam, I love you but just try mailing next time). Cosy Glow, though, really is just... lacking literally everything - I feel like I should see her facing off against a superhero in one of those much older cartoons and comics, being a villain only because that’s what she was written as and having nothing else to justify her role and existence.
Gosh, wasn’t Cosy even sent to Tartarus once or am I remembering things wrong?? She just feels like such an odd entity in FiM, having so much potential character-wise yet giving her barely any character at all, restraining her to a fate of unexplained villainy and having no chance of forgiveness despite the irony and hypocrisy of that. Other villains feel like they fit in the world in their own ways but Cosy just feels like she was made to be a living obstacle to be overcome. Man, Rip Cosy lol.
10986009
Nope, you're not misremembering anything. Her first punishment was being sentenced straight to Tartarus, no attempts at reformation or even any lighter punishments taken first. Just straight there, in a little cage plunked right next to Tirek of all people. Nobody even noticed she and Tirek were gone for all of Season 9 either, so it's not even like anyone was checking on her or anything, she just got left to rot.