Hoooly shit. I would say "Fluttershy, get to Discord quickly" but I'm kinda scared about what his reaction will be. I can't wait to see how all this horrifying craziness is resolved (if it's resolved at all? At this point, I'm wondering if this will have a happy ending! Either way, it's captivating.)
Oh wow, you weren't kidding when you said there would be feels. And Evil Fluttershy is so fucking brutal. GOD DAMMIT I HATE THAT MONKEY FUCK. I haven't ever felt real, true hatred for a fictional being like this.
Alara please, for the love of god, don't kill Discord. Twilight better be able to get rid of that Crystal thing. I can handle him being tortured and raped, but horribly killed? After all that has happened, I wouldn't be able to take it. God, Discord is breaking my heart here.
I had a feeling he was using a sly Trickster tongue when he was talking to Twilight.
But this shattered my heart:
"Oh, what's the point? They both are," Discord said bitterly. "Yes, all right, I admit it, I've been calling her Fluttercruel in my head to try not to mix her up with my friend. My dear, sweet, lovely friend, who I reformed for, who I came here to create chaos for rather than staying home just so she wouldn't get mad at me. My friend who was lying to me to control me, the whole time. They're both Fluttercruel."
Nooo, Discord! She does care about you! Oh man, he's so far gone and warped. I shudder to think what his reaction to the real Fluttershy will be. (By which I mean I want to read mooooore)
My ideas regarding what they are are influenced by Jordan179, by Egyptian mythology, and by the work of Charles Stross in his Laundry series, itself based on Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos. Also, windigos.
I was very much influenced in creating my version of the Shadows by H. P. Lovecraft, and I guess in retrospect probably by Stross and others who were influenced by Lovecraft as well. But Stross' influence is obvious in making them essentially inter-universal vampires, creatures from an old near-dead continuum who regard young living Universes like ours as prey. I was also influenced by some of the best Golden Age science fiction, such as John W. Campbell's Arcot, Wade and Morey stories, E. E. "Doc" Smith's Skylark and Lensman novels, and Edmond Hamilton's work.
And, of course, J. R. R. Tolkien -- a Shadow-ridden Pony radiates the same sort of Fear Aura and for similar reasons (a "wrongness against Nature") as do his more powerful creatures, such as the Barrow-Wight, the Nazgul and the Balrogs. Tolkien was I think inspired by American pulp science fiction and fantasy, as he read it and almost certainly would have encountered the stories of Lovecraft and the others of his circle. There are some very Lovecraftian scenes in Lord of the Rings and even The Silmarillion.
Opposition Twilight's abusiveness and contempt towards Spike is painful to see, especially because Spike is probably one of the things keeping her even slightly sane and decent -- he's her Morality Chain, though a much stretched one now, with many of the links close to failure. I think that one of them may turn on the other at some point if those goes on.
Twilight probably imagines himself to still be rational and good, but it looks more to me as if she's slipping toward utter madness through loss of normal emotional affect -- the likely path of any Twilight toward Nightmare. She only sort of loves Spike, she can barely tolerate her friends, and while she isn't herself a murderer or rapist, she sees nothing wrong with helping her friends behave horribly as a means of appeasing them.
I see that Spike is by far the sanest and most decent of the Opposition Six, which makes sense because he's actually just their friend. This is ironic given that he's the one who killed the alternate Discord, but
Spike made a sound halfway between a sigh and a moan. "I told you, Twilight. I told all of you. I'm going to live a long, long time, and turning him to stone wasn't going to be permanent – he got out once, he could do it again. And I'm just a dragon. You saw what he did to that poor red dragon Fluttershy talked out of sleeping near Ponyville." The dragon had made the mistake of challenging Discord because Discord's antics had woken him, and though old, he wasn't a thousand years old – he'd had no idea what he was dealing with. Discord had thrown him into space, without wings. He might even still be alive up there, somewhere. "I'll be powerful when I'm grown, but I won't be any match for Discord even then, and I ... I just couldn't bear having that hanging over my head. Knowing that he could break out and ruin all our lives again any time, and there would be nothing I could do about it."
I get the impression that on some levels Spike is now rather sorry that he killed his world's original Discord. Certainly, the killing is against Spike's normal idealism, but then Spike's idealism must have been partly broken by Discord's reign of terror.
"Oh... right, about the... yes. I remember." She got to a kneeling position, legs still folded under her. "You'll be okay here at Twilight's for a little while without me, won't you, sweetie?" she said to Discord, nuzzling his neck. Sickening.
It is "sickening," but pretty much for the opposite reason Opposition Twilight believes. What's sickening is that Opposition Fluttershy tortures and rapes him; the fact that she has come to love him (even in a perverted sort of way) is because there's still some good in her. Of course, she expresses this love ... poorly.
"So you think she's still there." Fluttershy's eyes narrowed. "The version of me that Discord claimed to love."
Jealousy! Because, deep down, she knows that Discord hates her, but loves her alternate?
Twilight's first reaction was to reject Fluttershy's emotionalism in exasperation. Discord had been ordered to lie, and had responded with a claim that he loved Fluttershy. Why Fluttershy insisted on interpreting this as a true statement that applied to the other one rather than a lie that applied to her, Twilight wasn't sure... no, strike that, of course she knew why. Becoming cruel had turned Fluttershy into a jealous monster. And if turning her jealousy on her other self made her more effective... in this case, perhaps Fluttershy's senseless and overblown emotions would work toward Twilight's goals. So she pushed aside her first impulse and said, "Yes."
Because Twilight has lost her original ability to love, she doesn't intuitively understand Fluttershy's motivation. There are several horrible aspects of this. Opposition Fluttershy knows Discord could really love the other Fluttershy because Opposition Fluttershy still feels love and can recognize the emotion in Discord (and realize it's not directed at her self, but rather at her alternate). Because Opposition Fluttershy is twisted, she is no longer capable of unselfish love, so this makes her hate her alternate all the more. Opposition Twilight is becoming more autistic, but as you said about the main Twilight, compensating with her superior intellect to reason out how others might feel. And Opposition Twilight is perfectly willing to turn Opposition Fluttershy into even MORE of a monster, just because this is convenient to her own plans.
But then, Opposition Twilight sees nothing wrong with killing the alternates of herself and her friends, just because this is safer for her plans. Which means she's gone pretty far down the path of evil herself -- farther than she would like to admit to herself.
And then once Princess Celestia had healed... they would rule together. Instead of two sisters, they would be more akin to mother and daughter, but they would still be family ruling together, as it had been for Princess Celestia when Luna was alive. Twilight swallowed at the thought. Becoming an alicorn herself had never been an option she imagined, but now that she knew it was possible, she wanted it more than she'd thought possible. To be Celestia's fellow princess... to have the power to protect her, carry her burdens when she faltered, be there through the centuries for her...
This is one of the last surviving manifestations of Opposition Twilight's good side, isn't it? Yes, it's an ambitious goal, but it's notable that she's focusing more on being there to love and help and protect Celestia than she is on the exercise of power. She still loves Celestia, and mostly in an unselfish way.
"Ah, I see. You're willing to let her rape me, but you don't want me to talk about it because it makes you uncomfortable. Well, trust me, having a mare shove her hoof up your nethers is a lot more uncomfortable, and no one lets me walk away."
That was not a mental image Twilight needed. Ever. "Is there a reason why you've suddenly decided to be crude and repulsive?"
Opposition Twilight doesn't like to think too hard about the details of the horrid crimes she helps her aides commit. Or even the details of the horrid crimes she is committing, when she isn't in the actual process of committing them. She still has her gentility -- but not really her restraining morality, not any more.
"At the cost of everything Twilight Sparkle was," Discord said. "There's nothing left of you but Matrisse now, running on a pony brain, and you don't even know it. The fragments of Twilight left in you are just enough to confuse you into thinking you're still her, but you're not. You may be more than a pony, but you're far, far less than Twilight Sparkle."
Oh, crap.
So the controlling motivation and personality is really that of Matrisse, with the bits that were Twilight just being used as Matrisse's interface with the normal world. That explains a lot -- and implies that it may be impossible for Twilight to ever come back. That's not good, either for her or for anyone else.
"Implying? I'm outright stating it. You use my blood to activate the ritual, and while I'm still alive you feed me to entities outside this reality. They siphon entropy through me, feeding on it, decreasing the available entropy in your world. Shifting the burden to another reality, as I said. And as you might imagine, just as consuming energy increases entropy, consuming entropy increases energy. What comes back from the ritual will be a surge of energy so powerful that you could use it to remake the world. I'd thought you'd need to use the Elements, but if you have the Diadem of Order, that's actually all you'd need."
I think that the original Twilight Sparkle would have immediately seen the logical flaws in this plan, namely that the entities might be hungrier than she'd like and that the energy surge might be uncontrollable. But long before that she'd have rejected it on the simple basis that sacrificing sapient beings to gain power is immoral -- a neat illustration of how a moral code promotes Positive-Sum behavior even when the entity possessing the code may not be sure why.
And now I see where the Shadows come in.
Discord sighed. "There's no such thing. The control structures you have to put on chaos to make it harmonic get their magical energy from somewhere. A lossless conversion isn't possible no matter how many times you torture me."
(*nods*) Indeed, the Laws of Thermodynamics would directly imply this.
"Do you seriously think this is the only world I've visited where my cognate is dead?" Discord retorted. "I know because I've seen a world where the ritual was performed successfully."
"And did it give those who performed the ritual what they wanted?"
"I have no idea what they wanted. A world with much of the disorder stripped out is deeply unpleasant to me, as you might imagine. I stayed only long enough to study the ritual itself and memorize it, because generally speaking, I like to know everything I can possibly know about anything that might kill me. Though admittedly, usually because I'm avoiding it rather than seeking it out."
Ah, Twilight's missing the key question:
"Why couldn't you have just asked one of them what they wanted?"
The likely reason, of course, is that they were all long DEAD, and because they performed the ritual.
Wait, discord said he could hear twilight wishing she was an alicorn. Wouldn't that be a tip off that she knew that alicorn twilight existed, and that she was coming for him?
Also, I know these elements are evil and all but why not just ASK discord to help celestia? If they had any intelligence they would know that he was a different discord from the damn get go, and this they would at least attempt it.
Ps if this ends with discord dying I will be piiiiissed. Not Like there's much way fOr him to make it out now - wait, if the collar was removed, wouldn't he have his magic back and just magic away the vine shit?
This is one of the last surviving manifestations of Opposition Twilight's good side, isn't it? Yes, it's an ambitious goal, but it's notable that she's focusing more on being there to love and help and protect Celestia than she is on the exercise of power. She still loves Celestia, and mostly in an unselfish way.
Oh, crap. So the controlling motivation and personality is really that of Matrisse, with the bits that were Twilight just being used as Matrisse's interface with the normal world. That explains a lot -- and implies that it may be impossible for Twilight to ever come back. That's not good, either for her or for anyone else.
Discord isn't completely right about Twilight and Matrisse, and the above is why. Matrisse would have no love for Celestia, being essentially a supercomputer and incapable of love. Some of Twilight is still in there, more than Discord estimates, because Discord is unaware of Twilight's love for Celestia -- he sees how she treats him, how she behaves toward Spike, and bits and pieces of her behavior toward her friends, also her tacit permission for her friends to commit the horrible acts they've been committing, so he overestimates the degree to which Matrisse has overwritten her mind.
6145069 No, he said he could hear what Twilight was dictating to Spike during her experiments. It hasn't occurred to Twilight until just now, after meeting her other self, that she could be an alicorn. What she has been working toward is making ponykind immortal.
And they don't trust Discord. Like, at all. Even knowing that he's not the same one, they have no reason to believe he's fundamentally different than that one. So no, just asking was never going to be on the table.
And no, Discord will not be able to magic the crystals away, because they absorb chaos magic. Using his magic directly on them would just make them grow faster. However, the fact that he threw them up indicates that they'll behave like anything else a person eats that they can't absorb into their bodies -- sooner or later he'll poop them out and then he'll be safe. :-) Or reasonably safe, anyway. If some of the crystals cling to his intestines he might end up with perforated intestines, but that's a thing surgery and then his magic could fix. The whole "kill in half an hour" thing only applies if the entire dosage is still inside his body, and he can't digest crystals, so eventually they'll all be out.
Oh god. I'm really scared that no matter what, Discord is going to die horribly. Maybe if the harmony mane 6 get the collar off they can kill him quickly and merciful.
Even if I got away it'd be in my mind for the rest of time! I'd have nightmares, I'd have flashbacks, I'd keep living it over and over just like I did with that damn statue even if it was over, and it would never really be over because it'd be engraved in my mind and I don't want that, all right? I don't want to be free to just go relive everything the six of you have done to me, over and over. I want it to stop. I want to stop feeling, stop remembering, stop being afraid, just stop. I want to die. Just let it end forever.
I'm really scared that the most merciful thing to do is let him die. I'm afraid that even if they rescue him and there is a "happy" ending, he'll commit suicide, not even caring about his successor like the Discord from 'no escape' is worried about. I'm selfish, and I don't want him to die, but honestly, dying may be the kindest thing possible no matter the outcome. However, I'm sure he wouldn't go through suicide plan #1 if he knew his ponies were here. I'm pretty sure that he still cares a lot about Fluttershy, or he wouldn't have been so heartbroken about her faking friendship. He may be broken and furious, but I still think he would do anything to keep her alive. He is too physiological dependent and emotionally invested on her to be the cause of her death no matter what he believes
Of course since scientifically time is the direction of entropy the opposite of entropy is impossible to fully comprehend meaning the only possible way for entropy to not exist is if nothing existed.
6145116 I don't believe that suicide is an appropriate response to having suffered trauma in the past, once the traumatic situation is over and not going to recur. Discord is still a prisoner right now and sees no hope for his future, so his mindset is in a very dark place. Everything he said to Twilight is true in that it's how he genuinely feels right now, and he doesn't expect to have time for it to change because he's trying to engineer his own death (as well as everyone else's). But that doesn't mean the situation might not change if he was rescued. Particularly since part of his suicidal desires is the belief that he doesn't genuinely have any friends, that literally no one in two universes cares about him aside from Fluttercruel, who treats him as a possession and torments him. If he were to learn that his friends came to this world and have risked their lives to save him, his mindset might change.
So no, as of right now, the most merciful thing wouldn't be to let Discord die. I don't promise that that will or will not always be the case, but I do say that right this minute, most of the reasons he wants to die would not apply if he were rescued. Also, the crystal poison isn't permanent; if it's never activated, it will eventually pass out of his body like anything else a person can't digest. So if he was rescued, but the collar wasn't removed for a day or two, he'd be fine, or at the very least he'd survive it. It's only while it's still in his body that it's dangerous.
6145483 I guess I'm channeling Discord's depression. Also, you just love suicidal Discord. When was the last time you wrote a non-angsty Discord? honestly, I love your stories but they usually make me sad
Hmm, it seems like Discord should be able to get rid of the crystals by some kind of indirect application of magic - teleporting himself but not the crystals, or something.
Although it hardly matters, given that he couldn't even hope to do that unless somehow freed, and I doubt he'd be up to thinking of anything tricky like that at that point...
6145443 it's still beyond comprehension and potentially paradoxical. Twilight will destroy herself in the pursuit of a concept she can't understand that is supposed to be scientifically impossible.
6145503 Because she gave it to him after she had nearly made her mind up to kill him, so the fact that it would cease to be effective in a couple of days isn't a problem. She's worried that there's something she can't see in the plan he proposed to her that would free him. (She's right that there's something she can't see in it, wrong about it being something to free him.) The only way he gets to use his magic is if the collar is not working. So if the ritual disrupts the Elements and undoes the spells on him, that undoes the collar and lets the crystals feed on his chaos magic and kill him. If the ritual damages or destroys his collar, same thing. And if the collar holds, then she goes through with the ritual and he dies.
If she had implemented it as a secondary measure of protection while he was a prisoner, she'd have been feeding it to him daily, and since he can't disobey an order, he'd have no choice but to take the daily dose. Since she's not employing it until now, when she plans to kill him, it won't be an issue.
6145539 Put it this way. Part of Twilight can understand it, or rather, part of who Twilight has become... but that part actively thinks that perfect stasis would be a good idea, and that part is also not particularly accessible to Twilight's conscious mind.
The entire entity, Matrisse, would not have thought stasis was a good idea any more than Discord thinks breaking all the fundamental laws of physics that life depends on is a good idea. Matrisse wanted to end magic, not entropy. But the Diadem is only a piece of Matrisse, and much less complex. It is programmed with a rather simplistic concept of Order Good, Disorder Bad. And entropy is disorder (as well as being loss of energy, heat transfer, equilibration, and a necessary component of time, which is why I dislike it being directly conflated with chaos, but it is a type of disorder.)
Opposition Twilight is smarter than "our" Twilight in many ways, but she has blind spots imposed on her by the fact that she got her enhanced intellect from a thing that has its own agendas, so she will be unable to see anything the Diadem doesn't want her to see, or doesn't see itself, unless she divests herself of it.
6145567 Which she would never do because she thinks it's just a magical amplifier that makes her smarter and not a parasite with no comprehension of the need for balance.
Opposition Twilight's abusiveness and contempt towards Spike is painful to see, especially because Spike is probably one of the things keeping her even slightly sane and decent -- he's her Morality Chain, though a much stretched one now, with many of the links close to failure. I think that one of them may turn on the other at some point if those goes on.
My money has long been on opposition spike defecting and providing a critical assist to the harmony team. Especially if one of them mentions their plan to reharmonize the tree. I imagine Spike would leap at a perceived opportunity to return Twilight (and the rest of her friends) to how they used to be.
6145101 (in response to answer number three) but you're not going to let that happen. Those crystals won't just go away - you threw that shit in there for a reason, or else Czechov's gun.
God dammit, no. Just no. This story is just too painfully good - too painfully REAL - to have Discord die at the end of it. Yes, if he dies it will be sad. It will be heart-wrenching. It will be a tragic ending worthy of greek myth. But hell in a handbasket, to go through all this shit just to see Discord be killed off by a deus ex machina will set my rage levels off the fucking charts.
It's like painting a painfully vivid canvas, only to at the last minute scribble out a chunk of the painting. It would otherwise be beautiful, but that chunk, that damned chunk, is what sets it apart from perfection.
This story will have a happy ending. it WILL. Discord's been through fucking enough - for him to die at the end would just be outright depressing, in the worst possible way. Break the norm of tragic endings, fuck czhechov's gun - Have Discord live, or else...
Or else nothing. I can't back up my threats - i don't know where you live or anything like that. But remember this: if you give this story a depressing ending, everyone who reads it will cry themselves to sleep at night. If that's what you want, do it - but you'll be breaking a fuckton of hearts.
6146848 Chekov's gun does not always have to be fired by the end of the third act. Chekov's gun could be there to trick you into thinking it was the hunting lodge owner when in fact the butler did it. It could be there to establish that Chekov is a dude who likes guns. :-) It could be there to make you expect it to be fired, and at the last second it will jam. Or Chekov might clock some dude in the head with it rather than shooting it. Maybe it's there to get Chekov arrested because he doesn't have a gun permit.
Just because you can see a clear way that a story device might be used, that doesn't necessarily mean the author intends to use it that way. Of course it also doesn't mean the author doesn't intend to use it that, but it doesn't guarantee anything. For instance (and I'm not actually going to do this, which is why I'm using it as an example), the endgame could turn into a blackly humorous fetch quest where Pinkie and Rainbow Dash are risking their lives to sneak back into Ponyville to steal laxatives because they have Discord holed up in the Everfree, unable to escape until the crystals are out of his body. I mean, poop humor would be really, really jarring in a story like this, but technically speaking, the crystals could be setting something like that up.
I'll give you this much: I don't believe in futility stories. Even if rocks fall, not everyone will die. If Discord does die, it won't be because of a deus ex machina or a shock-value accident. (And if he doesn't die, it won't be because of a deus ex machina or shock value accident, either.)
6146887 Okay, sorry to doubt you. The thought just occured to me and it was so terrifying I had to speak of it. To be fair, that's a mark of a good story - I'm legitimately scared for the characters.
Oh this is amazing. I love the plan of Discord's. Yet again I've always been if I'm dieing I'm taking all the bastards with me. I feel like I took in a nice breathful of spite from Discord. Wanting to destroy all with himself. So good.
6150524 Personally I feel that Discord's plan is overkill (literally); annihilating an entire planet because six individuals on that planet have been torturing you seems way overboard to me. But he's Discord. He goes way overboard.
I didn't go into this, but I'd imagine that Opposition Spike is also terribly hurt by the changes in his Rarity. In the scene where the Harmony Six fought the Opposition Six, I notice that Opposition Rarity was contemptuous toward and dismissive toward Harmony Spike, and that Harmony Rarity immediately spoke up in his defense (totally in line with her canon behavior; Rarity does not like anyone being cruel to Spike). I seriously doubt that a selfish, cruel Rarity would be able to care about Spike: her desire for approval from others and the potential embarrassment of being seen as a xenophile (which I think she actually is) would overcome her attraction to him (if she did love Spike, she'd keep it completely secret rather than do things like speak up publicly in his defense which would reveal her feelings to others -- and, actually it would probably just be more like "lust after" Spike, anyway). Opposition Spike is bereft of the normal emotional support from his adoptive big sister and his other best friend/love interest, and he must be feeling pretty lonely.
6150620 Overkill yes. But hey there's no kill like overkill. That is why I love it. Yet again I'm a crazy bastard in games that literally dived head first into the opposing team killing three as they killed me. Then doing this tactic on repeat till they lost. Since when they saw me all they could do was go kill him or he will kill us.
From near the beginning I was mostly worried about what happens when Discord gets free on a mostly-innocent world, now he doesn't even have to be freed to doom the planet.
I can't wait to see Princess Twilight's confrontation with drunk Celestia.
Love this story. I really hope Fluttershy can get to Discord and save him. Despite what the alternate Discord did, Harmony-Discord (feels a bit weird typing that) didn't deserve what they did to them and I can hardly feel sympathy for them.
I have to keep reminding myself that killing the Opposition Six isn't a viable option.
1. They can probably still be returned to normal. 2. They'll probably be needed to fix their world. 3. Minimum five of them can't be held accountable for what they're doing.
Any chance Discord might be able to find a world where Celestia died, and left behind an emotionally distraught Luna? I think Opposition World could really use a spare Luna.
My guess is Dischord won't respond in the way we want, and that Fluttershy will beat Fluttercruel thanks to Angel Bunny or Harry. Or by simply not being able to be corrupted. Fluttershy needed to be manuelly changed by dischord in the canonverse, and the corrupted one probably needed the same push. I could see Fluttershy being able to reach through Fluttercruel and break her by simply reminding her the positives of how she used to be and throwing the animals hatred of her in her face in the kindest way possible. Do I think she'll forgive her? Maybe. Forgiveness confuses the most cruel people, but I don't see Fluttershy doing it without being able to reach past the corrupted exterior. Either that or a pot will fall on Fluttercruel's head.
My other guess, Celestia won't kill the other four. She'll instead attempt to sober up and talk to them. Celestia is depressed from her loss of Luna but she still rules the country and pushes away Chryasislis showing she's still sane and aware enough to act as a leader when she needs to. Alicorn Twilight will lead her to asking questions, because corrupted twilight was probably going to ascend if she hadn't taken on the diadem.
And for the third, Opposition Spike is going to be instrumental in defeating Oppostion Twilight. I believe he's going to take on the mantel of Chaos Avatar. We know that in the past Dischord had to shadder Matisse in order for the world to continue to survive, making small bits of order scatter themselves. But with a true avatar Matisse once places the world back in danger, and will need a powerful advesary to prevent it from destroying the world. Since Opposition Twilight is pretty much dead (if Dischord's understanding of Matisse is correct) it would be a very poetic end to Opposition Twilight's death arc. The one who destroyed chaos (Spike) wielding it with the knowledge to not go overboard and the understanding of Twilight's mannerisms to give him the edge he'll need until he comes into understanding all of his power. And unlike Harmony Spike, he's been scared by order which will allow him to be chaotic enough to take on the mantel.
Awesome, SO glad to see even more of this, it's absolutely insane.. But in all the right ways. Looking forward to more, this has me on the edge of my seat!
Oh you Son of a whore motherf@cking b@tch slapping antelope Discord! I love it when these immortal creatures are brilliant. I know Twilight is smart but she has got nothing on Discord, Luna, and Celestia. I hope Luna just says screw it and teleports in and just f@cks sh@t up.
Discord! You magnificant basterd! That's brilliant! The final fuck you to twilight! Lol Part of me what's that to happen while the other part of me wants him to live like live on with ptsd or something. Ether way I can't wait for the next chapter!
I hate to be impatient, but is the next chapter coming anytime soon? I look forward to another dose of the pants-shitting fear this story instills in me. Take your time, though - you can't rush stories.
6482852 Maybe. I haven't been able to write in two months, but I've been able to get back into it as of last weekend. Not going to risk jumping into Elements of Opposition right away, though. Baby steps.
Well Discord got an endgame. A pretty horrible but brilliant endgame. Hopefully Fluttershy can talk some sense in him. Not only will innocent ponies of that world will die, but our ponies will die too.
Well this presents a problem for Fluttershy and Rainbow. They are probably going to need to free Discord to save the others before they get executed, but if they take the collar off he's dead. If they wait too long their other friends will be dead.
Though that does bring the question up. Will Celestia go through with it. We know she's a mess and has no compassion for Discord, but could she really kill her faithful student? Even if it's an alternate Twilight? Would Twilight being an Alicorn give her memories of her sister? I'm honestly not sure.
Hoooly shit. I would say "Fluttershy, get to Discord quickly" but I'm kinda scared about what his reaction will be. I can't wait to see how all this horrifying craziness is resolved (if it's resolved at all? At this point, I'm wondering if this will have a happy ending! Either way, it's captivating.)
Oh wow, you weren't kidding when you said there would be feels. And Evil Fluttershy is so fucking brutal. GOD DAMMIT I HATE THAT MONKEY FUCK. I haven't ever felt real, true hatred for a fictional being like this.
Alara please, for the love of god, don't kill Discord. Twilight better be able to get rid of that Crystal thing. I can handle him being tortured and raped, but horribly killed? After all that has happened, I wouldn't be able to take it. God, Discord is breaking my heart here.
I had a feeling he was using a sly Trickster tongue when he was talking to Twilight.
But this shattered my heart:
Nooo, Discord! She does care about you! Oh man, he's so far gone and warped. I shudder to think what his reaction to the real Fluttershy will be. (By which I mean I want to read mooooore)
Jesus Christ, this is dark.
I was very much influenced in creating my version of the Shadows by H. P. Lovecraft, and I guess in retrospect probably by Stross and others who were influenced by Lovecraft as well. But Stross' influence is obvious in making them essentially inter-universal vampires, creatures from an old near-dead continuum who regard young living Universes like ours as prey. I was also influenced by some of the best Golden Age science fiction, such as John W. Campbell's Arcot, Wade and Morey stories, E. E. "Doc" Smith's Skylark and Lensman novels, and Edmond Hamilton's work.
And, of course, J. R. R. Tolkien -- a Shadow-ridden Pony radiates the same sort of Fear Aura and for similar reasons (a "wrongness against Nature") as do his more powerful creatures, such as the Barrow-Wight, the Nazgul and the Balrogs. Tolkien was I think inspired by American pulp science fiction and fantasy, as he read it and almost certainly would have encountered the stories of Lovecraft and the others of his circle. There are some very Lovecraftian scenes in Lord of the Rings and even The Silmarillion.
Opposition Twilight's abusiveness and contempt towards Spike is painful to see, especially because Spike is probably one of the things keeping her even slightly sane and decent -- he's her Morality Chain, though a much stretched one now, with many of the links close to failure. I think that one of them may turn on the other at some point if those goes on.
Twilight probably imagines himself to still be rational and good, but it looks more to me as if she's slipping toward utter madness through loss of normal emotional affect -- the likely path of any Twilight toward Nightmare. She only sort of loves Spike, she can barely tolerate her friends, and while she isn't herself a murderer or rapist, she sees nothing wrong with helping her friends behave horribly as a means of appeasing them.
I see that Spike is by far the sanest and most decent of the Opposition Six, which makes sense because he's actually just their friend. This is ironic given that he's the one who killed the alternate Discord, but
I get the impression that on some levels Spike is now rather sorry that he killed his world's original Discord. Certainly, the killing is against Spike's normal idealism, but then Spike's idealism must have been partly broken by Discord's reign of terror.
It is "sickening," but pretty much for the opposite reason Opposition Twilight believes. What's sickening is that Opposition Fluttershy tortures and rapes him; the fact that she has come to love him (even in a perverted sort of way) is because there's still some good in her. Of course, she expresses this love ... poorly.
Jealousy! Because, deep down, she knows that Discord hates her, but loves her alternate?
Because Twilight has lost her original ability to love, she doesn't intuitively understand Fluttershy's motivation. There are several horrible aspects of this. Opposition Fluttershy knows Discord could really love the other Fluttershy because Opposition Fluttershy still feels love and can recognize the emotion in Discord (and realize it's not directed at her self, but rather at her alternate). Because Opposition Fluttershy is twisted, she is no longer capable of unselfish love, so this makes her hate her alternate all the more. Opposition Twilight is becoming more autistic, but as you said about the main Twilight, compensating with her superior intellect to reason out how others might feel. And Opposition Twilight is perfectly willing to turn Opposition Fluttershy into even MORE of a monster, just because this is convenient to her own plans.
But then, Opposition Twilight sees nothing wrong with killing the alternates of herself and her friends, just because this is safer for her plans. Which means she's gone pretty far down the path of evil herself -- farther than she would like to admit to herself.
This is one of the last surviving manifestations of Opposition Twilight's good side, isn't it? Yes, it's an ambitious goal, but it's notable that she's focusing more on being there to love and help and protect Celestia than she is on the exercise of power. She still loves Celestia, and mostly in an unselfish way.
Opposition Twilight doesn't like to think too hard about the details of the horrid crimes she helps her aides commit. Or even the details of the horrid crimes she is committing, when she isn't in the actual process of committing them. She still has her gentility -- but not really her restraining morality, not any more.
Oh, crap.
So the controlling motivation and personality is really that of Matrisse, with the bits that were Twilight just being used as Matrisse's interface with the normal world. That explains a lot -- and implies that it may be impossible for Twilight to ever come back. That's not good, either for her or for anyone else.
I think that the original Twilight Sparkle would have immediately seen the logical flaws in this plan, namely that the entities might be hungrier than she'd like and that the energy surge might be uncontrollable. But long before that she'd have rejected it on the simple basis that sacrificing sapient beings to gain power is immoral -- a neat illustration of how a moral code promotes Positive-Sum behavior even when the entity possessing the code may not be sure why.
And now I see where the Shadows come in.
(*nods*) Indeed, the Laws of Thermodynamics would directly imply this.
Ah, Twilight's missing the key question:
"Why couldn't you have just asked one of them what they wanted?"
The likely reason, of course, is that they were all long DEAD, and because they performed the ritual.
(*reads further*)
Called it!
And you're brilliant.
Wait, discord said he could hear twilight wishing she was an alicorn. Wouldn't that be a tip off that she knew that alicorn twilight existed, and that she was coming for him?
Also, I know these elements are evil and all but why not just ASK discord to help celestia? If they had any intelligence they would know that he was a different discord from the damn get go, and this they would at least attempt it.
Ps if this ends with discord dying I will be piiiiissed. Not Like there's much way fOr him to make it out now - wait, if the collar was removed, wouldn't he have his magic back and just magic away the vine shit?
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Discord isn't completely right about Twilight and Matrisse, and the above is why. Matrisse would have no love for Celestia, being essentially a supercomputer and incapable of love. Some of Twilight is still in there, more than Discord estimates, because Discord is unaware of Twilight's love for Celestia -- he sees how she treats him, how she behaves toward Spike, and bits and pieces of her behavior toward her friends, also her tacit permission for her friends to commit the horrible acts they've been committing, so he overestimates the degree to which Matrisse has overwritten her mind.
6145069
No, he said he could hear what Twilight was dictating to Spike during her experiments. It hasn't occurred to Twilight until just now, after meeting her other self, that she could be an alicorn. What she has been working toward is making ponykind immortal.
And they don't trust Discord. Like, at all. Even knowing that he's not the same one, they have no reason to believe he's fundamentally different than that one. So no, just asking was never going to be on the table.
And no, Discord will not be able to magic the crystals away, because they absorb chaos magic. Using his magic directly on them would just make them grow faster. However, the fact that he threw them up indicates that they'll behave like anything else a person eats that they can't absorb into their bodies -- sooner or later he'll poop them out and then he'll be safe. :-) Or reasonably safe, anyway. If some of the crystals cling to his intestines he might end up with perforated intestines, but that's a thing surgery and then his magic could fix. The whole "kill in half an hour" thing only applies if the entire dosage is still inside his body, and he can't digest crystals, so eventually they'll all be out.
Oh god. I'm really scared that no matter what, Discord is going to die horribly. Maybe if the harmony mane 6 get the collar off they can kill him quickly and merciful.
I'm really scared that the most merciful thing to do is let him die. I'm afraid that even if they rescue him and there is a "happy" ending, he'll commit suicide, not even caring about his successor like the Discord from 'no escape' is worried about. I'm selfish, and I don't want him to die, but honestly, dying may be the kindest thing possible no matter the outcome.
However, I'm sure he wouldn't go through suicide plan #1 if he knew his ponies were here. I'm pretty sure that he still cares a lot about Fluttershy, or he wouldn't have been so heartbroken about her faking friendship. He may be broken and furious, but I still think he would do anything to keep her alive. He is too physiological dependent and emotionally invested on her to be the cause of her death no matter what he believes
Oh man, I love me some Eldritch Abominations!
Of course since scientifically time is the direction of entropy the opposite of entropy is impossible to fully comprehend meaning the only possible way for entropy to not exist is if nothing existed.
WHOA, AN UPDATE SO SOOOOON? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
6145316 Or if time no longer moved.
6145116
I don't believe that suicide is an appropriate response to having suffered trauma in the past, once the traumatic situation is over and not going to recur. Discord is still a prisoner right now and sees no hope for his future, so his mindset is in a very dark place. Everything he said to Twilight is true in that it's how he genuinely feels right now, and he doesn't expect to have time for it to change because he's trying to engineer his own death (as well as everyone else's). But that doesn't mean the situation might not change if he was rescued. Particularly since part of his suicidal desires is the belief that he doesn't genuinely have any friends, that literally no one in two universes cares about him aside from Fluttercruel, who treats him as a possession and torments him. If he were to learn that his friends came to this world and have risked their lives to save him, his mindset might change.
So no, as of right now, the most merciful thing wouldn't be to let Discord die. I don't promise that that will or will not always be the case, but I do say that right this minute, most of the reasons he wants to die would not apply if he were rescued. Also, the crystal poison isn't permanent; if it's never activated, it will eventually pass out of his body like anything else a person can't digest. So if he was rescued, but the collar wasn't removed for a day or two, he'd be fine, or at the very least he'd survive it. It's only while it's still in his body that it's dangerous.
6145483 I guess I'm channeling Discord's depression. Also, you just love suicidal Discord. When was the last time you wrote a non-angsty Discord?
honestly, I love your stories but they usually make me sad
Hmm, it seems like Discord should be able to get rid of the crystals by some kind of indirect application of magic - teleporting himself but not the crystals, or something.
Although it hardly matters, given that he couldn't even hope to do that unless somehow freed, and I doubt he'd be up to thinking of anything tricky like that at that point...
6145483
Last thing, how come twilight didn't think about the crystal loophole?
6145443 It's still beyond comprehension and potentially paradoxical.
6145500
He was pretty cheerful at the end of the last chapter of Not the Hero, and definitely not suicidal. :-)
6145443 it's still beyond comprehension and potentially paradoxical. Twilight will destroy herself in the pursuit of a concept she can't understand that is supposed to be scientifically impossible.
6145503 She doesn't see the logic in it or doesn't think discord is capable of that planning in his current state of mind.
6145503
Because she gave it to him after she had nearly made her mind up to kill him, so the fact that it would cease to be effective in a couple of days isn't a problem. She's worried that there's something she can't see in the plan he proposed to her that would free him. (She's right that there's something she can't see in it, wrong about it being something to free him.) The only way he gets to use his magic is if the collar is not working. So if the ritual disrupts the Elements and undoes the spells on him, that undoes the collar and lets the crystals feed on his chaos magic and kill him. If the ritual damages or destroys his collar, same thing. And if the collar holds, then she goes through with the ritual and he dies.
If she had implemented it as a secondary measure of protection while he was a prisoner, she'd have been feeding it to him daily, and since he can't disobey an order, he'd have no choice but to take the daily dose. Since she's not employing it until now, when she plans to kill him, it won't be an issue.
6145539
Put it this way. Part of Twilight can understand it, or rather, part of who Twilight has become... but that part actively thinks that perfect stasis would be a good idea, and that part is also not particularly accessible to Twilight's conscious mind.
The entire entity, Matrisse, would not have thought stasis was a good idea any more than Discord thinks breaking all the fundamental laws of physics that life depends on is a good idea. Matrisse wanted to end magic, not entropy. But the Diadem is only a piece of Matrisse, and much less complex. It is programmed with a rather simplistic concept of Order Good, Disorder Bad. And entropy is disorder (as well as being loss of energy, heat transfer, equilibration, and a necessary component of time, which is why I dislike it being directly conflated with chaos, but it is a type of disorder.)
Opposition Twilight is smarter than "our" Twilight in many ways, but she has blind spots imposed on her by the fact that she got her enhanced intellect from a thing that has its own agendas, so she will be unable to see anything the Diadem doesn't want her to see, or doesn't see itself, unless she divests herself of it.
6145567 Which she would never do because she thinks it's just a magical amplifier that makes her smarter and not a parasite with no comprehension of the need for balance.
6145532
Knowing you, he'll probably become suicidal in that story too.
6145875
Naah. He has too many people trying to kill him in that story for me to let him turn suicidal. :-)
6144944
My money has long been on opposition spike defecting and providing a critical assist to the harmony team. Especially if one of them mentions their plan to reharmonize the tree. I imagine Spike would leap at a perceived opportunity to return Twilight (and the rest of her friends) to how they used to be.
I love Discord's plan so much. It's so good that an ending where it happens is only slightly worse in my mind then him getting saved.
6145101 (in response to answer number three) but you're not going to let that happen. Those crystals won't just go away - you threw that shit in there for a reason, or else Czechov's gun.
God dammit, no. Just no. This story is just too painfully good - too painfully REAL - to have Discord die at the end of it. Yes, if he dies it will be sad. It will be heart-wrenching. It will be a tragic ending worthy of greek myth. But hell in a handbasket, to go through all this shit just to see Discord be killed off by a deus ex machina will set my rage levels off the fucking charts.
It's like painting a painfully vivid canvas, only to at the last minute scribble out a chunk of the painting. It would otherwise be beautiful, but that chunk, that damned chunk, is what sets it apart from perfection.
This story will have a happy ending. it WILL. Discord's been through fucking enough - for him to die at the end would just be outright depressing, in the worst possible way. Break the norm of tragic endings, fuck czhechov's gun - Have Discord live, or else...
Or else nothing. I can't back up my threats - i don't know where you live or anything like that. But remember this: if you give this story a depressing ending, everyone who reads it will cry themselves to sleep at night. If that's what you want, do it - but you'll be breaking a fuckton of hearts.
6146848
Chekov's gun does not always have to be fired by the end of the third act. Chekov's gun could be there to trick you into thinking it was the hunting lodge owner when in fact the butler did it. It could be there to establish that Chekov is a dude who likes guns. :-) It could be there to make you expect it to be fired, and at the last second it will jam. Or Chekov might clock some dude in the head with it rather than shooting it. Maybe it's there to get Chekov arrested because he doesn't have a gun permit.
Just because you can see a clear way that a story device might be used, that doesn't necessarily mean the author intends to use it that way. Of course it also doesn't mean the author doesn't intend to use it that, but it doesn't guarantee anything. For instance (and I'm not actually going to do this, which is why I'm using it as an example), the endgame could turn into a blackly humorous fetch quest where Pinkie and Rainbow Dash are risking their lives to sneak back into Ponyville to steal laxatives because they have Discord holed up in the Everfree, unable to escape until the crystals are out of his body. I mean, poop humor would be really, really jarring in a story like this, but technically speaking, the crystals could be setting something like that up.
I'll give you this much: I don't believe in futility stories. Even if rocks fall, not everyone will die. If Discord does die, it won't be because of a deus ex machina or a shock-value accident. (And if he doesn't die, it won't be because of a deus ex machina or shock value accident, either.)
6146887 Okay, sorry to doubt you. The thought just occured to me and it was so terrifying I had to speak of it. To be fair, that's a mark of a good story - I'm legitimately scared for the characters.
Ah, this is interesting. Broken but cunning Discord, setting his trap against Twilight's. This is going to be amazing!
Do it!
Kill all of your characters in the finale like R.R. Martins XD
(or not, because i would really like to see a story that happen after the events of EoO)
Oh this is amazing. I love the plan of Discord's. Yet again I've always been if I'm dieing I'm taking all the bastards with me. I feel like I took in a nice breathful of spite from Discord. Wanting to destroy all with himself. So good.
6150524
Personally I feel that Discord's plan is overkill (literally); annihilating an entire planet because six individuals on that planet have been torturing you seems way overboard to me. But he's Discord. He goes way overboard.
6145944
I didn't go into this, but I'd imagine that Opposition Spike is also terribly hurt by the changes in his Rarity. In the scene where the Harmony Six fought the Opposition Six, I notice that Opposition Rarity was contemptuous toward and dismissive toward Harmony Spike, and that Harmony Rarity immediately spoke up in his defense (totally in line with her canon behavior; Rarity does not like anyone being cruel to Spike). I seriously doubt that a selfish, cruel Rarity would be able to care about Spike: her desire for approval from others and the potential embarrassment of being seen as a xenophile (which I think she actually is) would overcome her attraction to him (if she did love Spike, she'd keep it completely secret rather than do things like speak up publicly in his defense which would reveal her feelings to others -- and, actually it would probably just be more like "lust after" Spike, anyway). Opposition Spike is bereft of the normal emotional support from his adoptive big sister and his other best friend/love interest, and he must be feeling pretty lonely.
holly shit so epic
the end gets closer
DAMN i cant image AT ALL how all of this is going to work out haha
you must be a genius . . . for real haha
6150620 Overkill yes. But hey there's no kill like overkill. That is why I love it. Yet again I'm a crazy bastard in games that literally dived head first into the opposing team killing three as they killed me. Then doing this tactic on repeat till they lost. Since when they saw me all they could do was go kill him or he will kill us.
From near the beginning I was mostly worried about what happens when Discord gets free on a mostly-innocent world, now he doesn't even have to be freed to doom the planet.
I can't wait to see Princess Twilight's confrontation with drunk Celestia.
Love this story. I really hope Fluttershy can get to Discord and save him. Despite what the alternate Discord did, Harmony-Discord (feels a bit weird typing that) didn't deserve what they did to them and I can hardly feel sympathy for them.
I have to keep reminding myself that killing the Opposition Six isn't a viable option.
1. They can probably still be returned to normal.
2. They'll probably be needed to fix their world.
3. Minimum five of them can't be held accountable for what they're doing.
Any chance Discord might be able to find a world where Celestia died, and left behind an emotionally distraught Luna? I think Opposition World could really use a spare Luna.
My guess is Dischord won't respond in the way we want, and that Fluttershy will beat Fluttercruel thanks to Angel Bunny or Harry. Or by simply not being able to be corrupted. Fluttershy needed to be manuelly changed by dischord in the canonverse, and the corrupted one probably needed the same push. I could see Fluttershy being able to reach through Fluttercruel and break her by simply reminding her the positives of how she used to be and throwing the animals hatred of her in her face in the kindest way possible. Do I think she'll forgive her? Maybe. Forgiveness confuses the most cruel people, but I don't see Fluttershy doing it without being able to reach past the corrupted exterior. Either that or a pot will fall on Fluttercruel's head.
My other guess, Celestia won't kill the other four. She'll instead attempt to sober up and talk to them. Celestia is depressed from her loss of Luna but she still rules the country and pushes away Chryasislis showing she's still sane and aware enough to act as a leader when she needs to. Alicorn Twilight will lead her to asking questions, because corrupted twilight was probably going to ascend if she hadn't taken on the diadem.
And for the third, Opposition Spike is going to be instrumental in defeating Oppostion Twilight. I believe he's going to take on the mantel of Chaos Avatar. We know that in the past Dischord had to shadder Matisse in order for the world to continue to survive, making small bits of order scatter themselves. But with a true avatar Matisse once places the world back in danger, and will need a powerful advesary to prevent it from destroying the world. Since Opposition Twilight is pretty much dead (if Dischord's understanding of Matisse is correct) it would be a very poetic end to Opposition Twilight's death arc. The one who destroyed chaos (Spike) wielding it with the knowledge to not go overboard and the understanding of Twilight's mannerisms to give him the edge he'll need until he comes into understanding all of his power. And unlike Harmony Spike, he's been scared by order which will allow him to be chaotic enough to take on the mantel.
Awesome, SO glad to see even more of this, it's absolutely insane.. But in all the right ways. Looking forward to more, this has me on the edge of my seat!
Oh you Son of a whore motherf@cking b@tch slapping antelope Discord! I love it when these immortal creatures are brilliant. I know Twilight is smart but she has got nothing on Discord, Luna, and Celestia.
I hope Luna just says screw it and teleports in and just f@cks sh@t up.
Discord! You magnificant basterd! That's brilliant! The final fuck you to twilight! Lol
Part of me what's that to happen while the other part of me wants him to live like live on with ptsd or something.
Ether way I can't wait for the next chapter!
I hate to be impatient, but is the next chapter coming anytime soon? I look forward to another dose of the pants-shitting fear this story instills in me. Take your time, though - you can't rush stories.
6482852
Maybe. I haven't been able to write in two months, but I've been able to get back into it as of last weekend. Not going to risk jumping into Elements of Opposition right away, though. Baby steps.
Um.......*running around like a mad chicken* Help Fluttershy?
Well Discord got an endgame. A pretty horrible but brilliant endgame. Hopefully Fluttershy can talk some sense in him. Not only will innocent ponies of that world will die, but our ponies will die too.
Well this presents a problem for Fluttershy and Rainbow. They are probably going to need to free Discord to save the others before they get executed, but if they take the collar off he's dead. If they wait too long their other friends will be dead.
Though that does bring the question up. Will Celestia go through with it. We know she's a mess and has no compassion for Discord, but could she really kill her faithful student? Even if it's an alternate Twilight? Would Twilight being an Alicorn give her memories of her sister? I'm honestly not sure.