Spike, Apple Bloom, and the Best Toy Ship. · 3:41am Oct 7th, 2014
First, some miscellany to get out of the way.
I’m doing another round of Ask a Pony, in case you missed my last post. You can read about it here, or if you’re already familiar and have a question you want to ask, here’s a link to the form.
Since a few people have asked, human-baby-Trixie is doing fine. She’s a big girl (already wearing 6 month clothing) and she’s very smart. Her father taught her to stick her tongue out at people, and that it’s the funniest thing in the world, so she sticks her tongue out and then starts grinning and laughing (with her tongue out.) It’s adorable. This is a partial performance, she can stick it out more than this, but I don’t have a picture:
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Now for the actual post.
For a few blog posts I’ve been talking about some common ships and how I think they work. I wanted to change things up and talk a little less about shipping, while at the same time suggesting a less common ship that I happen to really love: Spike x Apple Bloom, or SpikeBloom.
First, let’s start with how old Spike is. Now, I don’t want to get into numbers here, because the only thing that’s really important is how old the characters are relitive to one another.
The bases of my theory here actually doesn’t involve anything Spike has said or done, besides being hatched. He was hatched when Twilight got her cutie mark. At the same time, Applejack was in Manehattan.
When Applejack leaves for Manehattan and returns, Granny and Big Mac are there to greet her, but no other ponies. Specifically, no parents, and no Apple Bloom. Now, it’s possible that her parents were someplace else and Apple Bloom wasn’t born yet. And it’s also possible that her parents were inside, attending to a baby Apple Bloom. But equally likely is that baby Apple Bloom was inside asleep, and her parents had already died.
I feel like the trip itself is circumstantial evidence of the last option. Applejack doesn’t seem the type to really want to leave her family, and obviously she wasn’t, but if she’d recently lost her parents I feel like it makes more sense for her to want to be someplace else for a while, someplace with fewer sad memories. That might make Manehattan more tempting to her, and it would explain why they weren’t there to see her off or greet her.
In either case, two of the three options involve Apple Bloom having been a baby when AJ went to Manehattan (and the two most likely-- if they weren’t taking care of a baby, it seems odd that AJ’s parents wouldn’t have been there to wave good-bye to their (then) only daughter.)
If Apple Bloom was a baby when AJ went to Manehattan, then Spike is younger than Apple Bloom.
Now, that’s pretty tenuous, but this is borne out by the way Twilight treats him. One can argue that for a dragon the term “baby dragon” could apply for a long time, but the fact is that Twilight occasionally treats Spike like a kid-- telling him to go to bed, scolding him for things, questioning his responsibility… to me this is another indicator that Spike is significantly younger than the mane six.
But Spike doesn’t act as young as the CMC. He’s allowed even more freedom and responsibility. The mane six treat him as an equal when the episode remembers to. How does that make sense if he’s even younger than Apple Bloom, who can’t even stay for the day by herself?
Because he’s more mature. Specifically, he grew up with not only no other dragons around, but the only ponies he was around were Twilight’s age, or Twilight herself. And not just any older ponies, either, older ponies who had all been accepted to Princess Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns, so they're presumably smart and/or talented. In order to be friends with them, including Twilight, Spike would have learned to push himself to act like one of those ponies.
Not only that, but Twilight’s a kind of inconsistent parental figure-- she’s prone to freak outs where Spike actually needs to be the one to support her. I suspect she doesn’t realize that she is his parental figure, she thinks of herself more as a big sister, and Celestia as a mother figure like she was for Twilight. But Celestia is obviously more hooves off with Spike, leaving him to Twilight to raise the rest of the way in a situation that requires them both to push themselves to be responsible and take care of each other.
So the end result is that Spike is a kid who acts like an adult. Not all of the time, of course, even the most mature kid is going to be childish on occasion and have different fears and ways of seeing the world than an adult would. We can see that in various episodes, Spike is worried because he’s sometimes left out, because he might be abandoned by Twilight and feels like he doesn’t really have a role anywhere or connection to his other friends if he is, or because not as useful as the rest of his friends. All of these things make sense if he’s a lot younger and worries that his older, more experienced friends will decide he’s not worth hanging out with.
There’s nothing really wrong with this, people/ponies/dragons should be friends with people they’re comfortable around, and Spike wouldn’t really be comfortable around other kids. Despite the fact that Spike himself is essentially looking for his cutie mark in episodes like Dragon Quest, and Power Ponies, and through things like his dragon code, for him it’s a more mature and subtle search than it is for the CMC, because he thinks of himself as more grown up.
But when it comes to shipping, the age difference is a thing at the time in canon. Just because he’s mentally more mature doesn’t mean he’s grown-up enough for a real relationship at this time. Even if a very mature 13-year-old sometimes acts more mature than a 20-year-old, they shouldn’t be in a relationship because the 13-year-old is still going to be a kid in many ways, and more importantly they should be a kid in many ways, while the 20-year-old shouldn’t be trying to still be a kid.
Aged up shipping is a thing, and it’s fine, I have a soft spot for aged-up Sparity myself based mostly on my love of happily ever afters. But it isn’t the only option. Because during the time he’d be growing to the point of being old enough for a real relationship, other foals around him will be maturing too, and they’ll be ready for relationships on the same level that he is.
Which brings me to…
Apple Bloom is not mini-Applejack. Aside from clearly having more non-farming related interests, including some vaguely academic ones like potion making and being talented at construction (which requires at least basic geometry, which would be advanced for somepony Apple Bloom’s age) she’s also not as comfortable or stable as Applejack is. And unlike (arguably) Sweetie and Scoots, Apple Bloom isn’t particularly interested in being like her older sister. This makes sense because Applejack’s role in her life is neither as cool friend nor distant role model, it’s as the pony who’s responsible for keeping her safe, making sure she gets her homework done, giving her advice and comforting her when things go wrong… so, her mom, more or less. Apple Bloom doesn’t need to be like AJ, she just wants to be seen as grown-up and mature by AJ and everypony else.
Apple Bloom is the kind of pony who constantly worries, and is prone to absolutely freak out about just about anything that catches her imagination. Despite that, she’s still the most level-headed of the CMC, in terms of being able to address specific situations logically. Combine this with an apparent interest in a research intensive and scientific form of semi-magical study, and in many ways Apple Bloom is closer to being mini-Twilight.
I can’t think of a better pairing, without being aged up, for either of them than SpikeBloom.
For Apple Bloom, Spike is someone near her own age who’s actually mature and treated as a grown up, something she values deeply. He’s also someone who’s totally comfortable dealing with neurotic ponies, and he has a lifetime of experience in helping a pony studying in fields like the one Apple Bloom seems interested in. If he agreed to help her with it, it would be easy for a crush to form.
From Spike's perspective… well, everything about Spike would actually impress Apple Bloom. The regular things he does, not things he’d have to do specifically to impress her, or manual labor. What’s more, when he saw that she was smart and neurotic, I think it would combine with that into the thing that Spike would be more attracted to than any other quality in a girl: She needs him. He can be important to her.
It’s like his relationship with Twilight, but without creepy age or incest vibes. That’s not as weird as it sounds, because many people end up dating people who share traits with their parents. You can go all Freudian on that, or it might just be because those are traits that they find comfortable. In Spike’s case, it’s clear from how he acts with Rarity that he equates being needed and being loved, so a pony who was actually, genuinely impressed by that would probably be a clear sign of romance to him.
Now, as a toy ship (a ship of underaged characters) it doesn’t need to address deep problems between them-- if your middle school romance has deep flaws that you’re addressing, you probably need a different one. However, I could easily see some light problems because Spike is generally more romantic than Apple Bloom is likely to be, so it’s likely that even if Apple Bloom did like him a lot she wouldn’t act as in love as he expects, and he would act more in love than she expects which she might find embarrassing. But those are the types of things you learn about in teenaged relationships, they’re for trying out being in love as much as spending time with someone.
There really aren’t many good SpikeBloom fics out there. I have one among my infiniate collection of WIPs, but who knows if it’ll get done. But I’d love to read more, and maybe I got you thinking on it, and maybe one or two of you will write one.
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One of my friends has noted that it would be funny for Twilight to encourage Spike to hang out with the CMC a bit, and for Spike to complain about them being "kids" and Twilight pointing out that Apple Bloom is older than he is.
Thing is, it is absolutely the case that Spike isn't really much like the CMC, and acts much older than them, even if he isn't (though it is hard to say for sure whether or not he IS their age; the possibility that AJ's parents were alive at that point does exist, as you noted).
I do tend to agree that it is a reasonable enough toy ship though.
antiquetoyworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2011_02_ships_01.jpg
I'll get behind this blogpost 100%, actually. Sparity's top choice for the boy in aged up and/or serious fics, but if you're talking fresh out of the box, SpikeBloom is 2cute4me.
So, uh, congrats. Probably the one time I won't sperg out with a wildly differentiating viewpoint on your blogpost.
Concur with this post, wish I would see more writers take a stab at this, and less trying to ship spike with any of the Mane 6. Also the equation of Applebloom = mini Twilight is perfect and should be more explored in stories shipping or no.
SpikeBloom is my OTP, and you pretty much sum up my thoughts about the ship very well. I think two traits of Apple Bloom's that would make her compatible with Spike are her ambition and her adventurousness.
Apple Bloom's one desire, above all else, is to grow up more quickly, whether this manifests itself in crusading for her cutie mark or craving more independence. Thus, it'd make sense that she might pursue someone a bit more worldly and mature, like Spike. You also get a sense that Apple Bloom really wants to make a name for herself, and has the attitude of someone who'd like to be a leader. As you said, this aspect of her character would draw Spike's admiration because he'd see a bit of Twilight in her. Plus, Spike's seeming desire to be a "number one assistant" would mesh well with Apple Bloom's ambitions, should they get together.
Apple Bloom's adventurousness, however, could be a crucial aspect to the ship. In Bridle Gossip, Apple Bloom is the one pony in the entire town willing to give Zecora a chance. To the extent that any social prejudices exist against dragons or against interspecies relationships, Apple Bloom would be the least likely to care about them and would have no qualms about entering into a relationship with Spike.
Finally, they'd also be able to relate to one another pretty well on their upbringing. Both are in the somewhat unusual situation where their mother figures are their older sisters. One could totally see them commiserating together over the behavior of their crazy older sisters.
It'd also have to agree with you that it's a shame there aren't more good SpikeBloom fics out there. Perhaps one day, I'll find the time to get my own SpikeBloom fic idea down onto paper.
100% this.
Sometimes. Occasionally Sweetie Belle has this. But poor Scoots never does.
(Not that she's dumb of course.)
Although I wouldn't exactly agree that Bloom is similar to Twilight. She's a lot more practical and hands on, and her leadership aspect has somewhat shifted over the seasons to the point where the CMC just seem like a council or something.
Furthermore, she hasn't shown much interest in crafting aside from when it's needed to be done. Unlike Sweetie, who is shown to enjoy singing, and Scoots, who scooters about nearly all the time. Twilight on the other hand, has a passionate drive for her interests. Maybe it'd change after she gets her cutie mark though.
Granted, I could see SpikeBloom working pretty well. In some ways better than SweetieSpike.
I'd argue Sweetie is a bit more like Twilight there. Very clever analytically, but practically she's sort of hopeless. Much like Twilight herself in the early episodes. She freaks out easy and needs her fellow crusaders to ground her.
Only problem with SweetieSpike is that I can't see Spike settling for second best. As in, he'd probably have trouble getting comfortable with the idea that he was dating Rarity's sister as opposed to Rarity herself. Sweetie would probably have a lot of work to do to get his attention, if she was even interested in Spike.
So yeah, SpikeBloom probably feels a lot more organic in nature.
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Crafting, no. Potion making, though, she's shown an interest with Zecora from Bridle Gossip and The Cutie Pox, and she's been working on it with Twilight in Twilight Time. That indicates a pretty continued interest to me. (You could also throw in her interest in making zap apple jam, a pretty magical process.)
I totally disagree with this. Sweetie's most focused character traits are a tendency to scheme and play ponies, and a petulance when she feels wronged that you never see in Twilight. (Sisterhooves Social, Hearts and Hooves Day, Ponyville Confidential, Sleepless in Ponyville, Twilight Time, and For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils.) When Sweetie is leading the CMC, something
badunderhanded is going on. For example, working at the newspaper is Apple Bloom's idea. Publishing Rarity's diary as Gabby Gums is Sweetie Belle.2513775
Point.
True, yet bear in mind you're comparing child characters to fully fledged adult ones. You compare Bloom's interest in potions to Twilight, yet it's more than suggested that Sweetie Belle does some reading in her spare time. How else would she know (and more importantly, know how to use) such complex words that neither the other crusaders know at all?
But at the end of the day, they're still children. They've yet to grow and mold into the characters they will one day be. To say:
Isn't fair. It's merely foalish innocence. Furthermore, Sisterhooves wasn't scheming as much as just trying to make Rarity feel jealous. Hardly Sherlocking there. It's only a childish statement at work.
Hearts and Hooves Day is actually something Twilight would likely do herself. Twilight's used spells before to try and solve problems that could've been solved through talking. Sweetie Belle used a potion to a similar effect. Again, it was done out of childhood innocence to cause good, not bad.
Ponyville Confidential started out with good intentions, but peer pressure from Tiara made that go downhill. And at one point I do believe Sweetie questions what they're doing and whether it's right, but they go on regardless.
Sleepless in Ponyville: don't think she schemed here at all. Unless you think giving Rarity's bags to Scootaloo was that? Hey, can't blame her for wanting to take a break from that back breaking work (bear in mind how long she had to do it for).
Twilight Time is scheming, yeah. Yet it's to do with the childhood idea that being popular = good.
For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils is again, another childish attempt to get back at her sister. Lots of siblings do this and so has Apple Bloom (Somepony to Watch Over Me).
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First off, scheming isn't a bad thing. I did edit that, though you might have seen it before I did. It's just a method of confronting problems indirectly rather than directly, which is contrary to how Twilight usually faces problems. Twilight certianly would make a great schemer, but she's naturally a very open pony. Rarity and Rainbow Dash are far more likely to scheme to get what they want, also with the best of intentions.
And I will agree that all of Sweetie's scheming is due to childishness, but it's not fair to act like it doesn't say something about her that this is her reaction. Apple Bloom and Scoots are both childish in entirely different ways.
No, that's petulance and playing ponies.
It's not so much the use of the potion that's scheming here, as that she's the one who gets the idea that Cheerilee needs to be hooked up in the first place.
.
I saw the episode. Once again, Sweetie could have responded in many different ways, but she's the one who threw into Gabby Gums full force:
And she does question it. Then when the other crusaders agree with her...
She played Rarity to get her to agree to come.
Once again, scheming =/= bad. But it's not something Twilight does.
Apple Bloom never tried to get back at Applejack, she went to try to do something good (take care of Applejack's chore) to prove Applejack wrong.
Once again, I'm not saying that Sweetie is bad, just that she's nothing like Twilight. She actually is very much a mini-Rarity, or her aspirations to be like her sister are paying off.
Well..I like SpikeBloom now.
That's a good analysis of Apple Bloom. :O But you forget to mention the elephant in the room, keeping Spike and Apple Bloom from being an item forever and ever, amen:
poni should not dragon
Checkmate, atheists. :V
See me, I'd want a fic where Spike tries dating Sweetie but ends up with Apple Bloom. It would be a great way to explore middle-school relationships, good and bad, and the part they play in growing up.
Ahhh, SpikeBloom and ScootaBelle.
I seem to remember Warren Hutch's Earth & Sky having SpikeBloom... I feel like I've read a fair bit. But I think that about a lot of ships, and it's always a lie.
Any case, an excellent thesis statement on a lovely ship! SpikeBloom is by far the best ship for both of them.
2514221 Earth & Sky is PipBloom, actually.
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Ah! You're right. It's been far too long since I've read that story. Really wonderful.
Counterpoint: Spike and Sweetie Belle are 100% cute and totes belong together, so there.
2514086
Obviously, this calls for the reckless and ill-considered use of a transformation spell!
"That's your answer for everything, Twilight."
"Only because it solves everything!"
Now I can't decide between SpikeLoo and SpikeBloom. :V
2514572
Well sure, if you actually want things to happen. :V
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Fair enough.
I'm pretty much defeated at this point and accept I'll never be good enough to win any debate.