The Interview
Author, Twilight Sparkle.
So I realize this is going to be a strange interview to write about, and it’s probably going to make a number of male and female readers uncomfortable, but… well I wanted to research this. I had questions and the answers… well…
(***)
The subject I had set out to understand was why stallions seem to cry so little. Yes, I understand many ponies can be accused of crying FAR too much, and that I’m speaking in generalities here, but I have always believed that stallions tend to show too little emotion at critical stages.
I care about all the ponies in Equestria, as a co-ruler, so I felt driven to find answers… even if that meant doing something I would normally consider a little unethical. I deliberately sought out someone grieving to ask him questions I knew would be upsetting. I was honest about my intentions, but I’d be lying if I said what I was doing didn’t make me feel uncomfortable. Questions like “what right do you have to question him?” came to my mind several times. But I pushed them aside, for the sake of the stallions in this kingdom, I needed answers.
(***)
The subject of the interview was Cloud Fall, a weather pony whose daughter Starshine had passed away one week ago. Rainbow had given him a week off to mourn, but neither she nor any of his other friends reported seeing him cry more than once even during that week. Rainbow herself was getting worried… true Rainbow recently adopted a child so maybe she’s getting a little softer, but still, normally this isn’t something she thinks about.
Cloud entered my library in the castle having a very hard time looking me in the eyes. We sat silent for a few minutes, neither sure how to start talking.
Finally I started, “So you know why we’re here?”
“So you can issue me a citation for too few tears?” Cloud said with a glare.
“You can leave at any time,” I said calmly. “You’re not being accused or judged, I’m just wanting answers.”
His wings started to raise in agitation. “Not being judged? Isn’t that the whole point of this? To judge if I and my whole gender is okay? At least on the issue of shedding tears. For buck sake be honest. Don’t think I’m not gonna be, I don’t have much of a filter right now.”
I nodded, trying to maintain a nonthreatening look best I could. I knew I was moving near open wounds, anyone would snap. “Fair enough, I suppose there are judgements being made, not about good or evil though, I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.”
The stallion sighed, his wings relaxing again. “Fair enough.” He bit his lip, but then proceeded. “So ask your questions.”
“You haven’t cried about her except when you first heard about what happened, why not? Everyone can see it in your eyes, you’re hurting, so why are you holding it in? You’re not fooling anyone.” … Not gonna say I’m happy with how I put every single word…
Cloud stomped sending an echo through the library causing me to remember, even as an alicorn I was talking to someone FAR bigger than I was. I backed up a little. “FOOLING!?! My daughter is dead, if you can’t figure out I’m hurt it’s because you’re a bucking moron, you need me to cry to figure it out then you’ve got to be the stupidest-“
“Calm down- I said that wrong okay?” I held my head a little lower to show guilt. He grunted, but visibly relaxed again. “Look I get that you’re on edge and I’m not gonna lie, I would be too, but there’s probably not many ways for me to not say something that will be upsetting.”
“Granted.”
“Okay, so I guess you expected ponies to already know you were hurt then right?”
Cloud looked at me, eyes seeming to go blank. I didn’t know what that meant but I made me nervous. Like there was a warning in those eyes, like this wasn’t territory I was meant to explore.
“You just said you expected them to know right?”
He just nodded.
“So I don’t understand. No one wasn’t expecting you to hurt, why didn’t you share that hurt?”
“What makes you think they would have cared?”
I almost cried right there. But I clenched my teeth. I didn’t want him to go on at all after that, but I waved for him to continue.
“Two years ago my dog passed away. I broke down in the street when my wife called. Stallions, mares- everyone just walked past… well, until a small group of teens stopped to laugh at me, and then walk on as well.”
I wanted to hug him, tell him things would be alright, but that wasn’t the point of this. “But that can’t be the only experience you’ve had crying… when you did when you were little, your mom came running- your dad too I’m sure, I’m not saying anything about stallions I swear.”
“I am saying something about stallions though. My mom ran to me when I cried when I was little, and until about ten, so did my dad.”
“Ten?” I asked, kinda shocked.
“He was trying to teach me what was coming next. Mares seem to ask about us not crying pretty often, and I’ve heard a number of stallions try to tell them, simply put, it doesn’t do anything. So I’ve got a question, when we answer, why don’t you listen?”
“Because… I would have stopped had I seen you like that, all my friends would have too. I know it.”
“Are you sure? You’ve never seen a stallion cry and walked on by?”
I thought, I thought hard. Had I? I actually wasn’t sure, I hadn’t seen many stallions cry anyway… well maybe… no, I wouldn’t just keep walking, Maybe when I was younger, but not now that I was mature. “Maybe when I was a filly. Can’t always account for little Twily ya know?” I tried to joke.
He just kept up that blank look. “Even as a filly, would you have just kept walking had you seen a mare in the same situation?”
I slowly shrugged, “I really don’t know.”
He sighed. “Look, studies have been done, and you’re well read, so you’re probably aware. Stallions do cry, but it doesn’t release the same chemicals in the same amount so it doesn’t get the same result.”
“So just do it more often…”
“I don’t think you seem to understand how experience works. You break down enough times and folks ignore it or laugh at it enough times, you stop. You don’t just do it more. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of madness. Do you really want to help us?”
I nodded.
“Then I don’t understand. I had a whole week off, and of all my friends, only my boss Rainbow came to visit. Where were you exactly?”
“Well I don’t know you that well personally.” I shook my head. “Look this is a big town, I don’t go to every mare who’s got reason to cry either, just my friends.”
“So where were mine?”
“So you think others don’t care about you because you’re a stallion?”
He shook his head. “It’s not that simple. I mean what you just said a few seconds ago, that explained a lot more than you know. No one goes to every pony in need. No one. In reality, the world neither loves nor hates you, it just doesn’t care. Cry, don’t cry, it’s up to you, you’re rolling the dice either way. You mares have a little help from biology so… typically, I know this isn’t always true… you had more positive results with it in the past. So as you get older, it has a cathartic feeling attached I would guess. For me, it hasn’t helped since I was little, so all it is, is just some robotic reaction when the pain overwhelms me. I only cry when I can’t help myself.”
“But if your friends saw you cry-“
He cut the air with his hoof. “No, if they weren’t going to come around when I wasn’t crying, they probably wouldn’t have come if I did. My friends aren’t stupid, they knew I needed them,” he gave a smile, “Maybe we stallions have an advantage over you mares. I figured out how many real friends I have. Rainbow and my wife I guess.”
“Crying is how we tell someone is breaking, how was anyone supposed to know you weren’t doing okay?”
“They have functioning brains don’t they? When your daughter gets her wing clipped and crashes so that the next time you see her after work she’s a mangled corpse-“ he finally started crying. I quickly flew over to him.
“It’s okay, that’s it-“
“IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED?!!” he shouted, wings up and eyes burning with rage. I quickly backed away. “I stomped and yelled and exposed my soul to you, but you waited to say “it’s okay” until you saw what you wanted? BUCK YOU!” The tears were flowing freely now, mine too.
“I don’t think I deserved that…”
He turned to the door. “I’m sorry, if this is about you then I’m gone. I’m the one whose daughter died, but did I hurt your fragile feelings? I’m so bucking sorry.” He started to leave.
“Wait, look… this whole conversation isn’t going how I planned okay?...” He stopped and looked back. I nodded. “Okay so it’s not fair for me to expect you to have a filter right now. I wanted to know how you feel so I can’t be upset if that’s what I get.” I sighed and sat down a few feet away. “Maybe you have a point. Maybe folks shouldn’t wait to see someone break before they do something. Yea… that’s probably a pretty profound statement… I’ll have to think on that one. I guess I was thinking I would teach you better,” I gave a weak chuckle, “So I’ve got lessons to learn too… no surprise there.”
“But you’re not learning are you?” I cocked my head to the side confused. “Why are you standing over there right now instead of next to me? Wouldn’t you be standing next to Fluttershy if she were in this condition?”
“You shouted…”
“You would have backed away from her then?”
“You’re bigger than me, that’s not fair.”
“Nothing about how the genders are set up is fair kiddo. We have souls of equal value but biology has clearly decided whose more important. I mean I get it. Thousands of years ago, if half the stallion population died so what, our race could easily repopulate anyway, but we couldn’t lose you mares or we would have been done.”
“Look that’s not how things are anymore. Thousand years ago I would pretty much be a baby factory, and you a meat shield I guess, but now well…”
“We’ve changed so much have we?”
“I think we have.”
“You’re still keeping your distance from me out of fear. You’re a bucking alicorn, you have power that eclipses mine a thousand times over, but still my size holds you in place because of your instincts. I’m bigger, I get it, I’m not blaming you… well maybe I am. I shouted and stomped and my wife didn’t run, because even without your power, she wasn’t afraid. She knows me, she knows I would never hurt her.”
“What do you do when she hurts?”
“Whatever I can. If she needs a shoulder to cry on, mine belongs to her, if she needs to be held, I’ll hold her for hours. When she needs to yell, I’ll listen, when she tells herself it’s all her fault, I’m there to fight her demons. When she stomps, I never run. We belong to each other. Nothing in our instincts makes us do it, we made our own instincts, our own habits.”
I sighed, got up and started to walk towards him. He stomped the ground, an echo shooting out again and I felt a jolt to retreat again- but not this time. I moved towards him. He couldn’t have hurt me if he wanted. I’m a grown mare, I shouldn’t be afraid of someone who’s broken. I sat down next to him and put a wing on his back. “Look, I’m not gonna be like her, but I think you have a point. Maybe we’re not as advanced as we think, maybe we’ve got a long way to go. But I for one am wiling to try to get there. I’m right here, I’m not going anywhere.”
He looked at me, “I’m not going to cry again.”
“You don’t need to…” I looked around. “How about we just talk?”
“More about crying?”
“No, about Star Shine.”
“If I said I wasn’t ready to do that?”
“Then I’ll just say… look, you’re not a close friend, yet, but if you need me, just come and talk to me okay? It’s not about how many tears you shed.”
“You realize crying isn’t better than not right?”
“You’re right, it’s not. It has its advantages, which is why it bugs me that you guys do it so little, but you’re right, crying isn’t the only way we can tell someone needs help. When your friends heard you daughter passed away, they should have come around, I’m sorry that didn’t happen.”
“I wouldn’t have cried even if they did.”
“It wouldn’t have changed anything, I get it.”
He paused for a bit. I felt a little uncomfortable, but I waited with him. I finally looked over at his face. He looked back. “She looked up to you you know? Starshine. You and Pinkie were her biggest heroes.”
We sat quietly for a bit after that.
You ever had a moment when you said the WRONG thing? Rarity came into the library after some time, just there to visit I suppose. “Twilight darling Cloud is a married stallion, you should be careful how things look I-“ she spoke and I started going numb. Suddenly the door to the library slammed. Cloud was gone. “Um… I was just-“
“Rarity he wasn’t cheating… what did you just do?”
“I didn’t say he was, I wouldn’t say something like- I was just talking about being proper, what’s going on?”
“His daughter died and I was consoling him.”
“He wasn’t crying…”
“What the buck does that matter?!... Look, stay here, I’ve got make sure he’s okay.” I ran out the door fast as I could.
“I’m so sorry Twilight, you have to know that!” I heard Rarity shout.
“We’ll talk later- you’re daughter didn’t die, you’re not the priority!” I yelled back.
I shot into the air, following a speck of blue I saw in the distance, hoping it was Cloud. Rarity is a good pony, but boy does she speak before she thinks sometimes.
Finally the figure dropped to the ground. “Don’t, don’t, don’t!” I shouted. I tore after him.
I arrived at the edge of a local pond to see Cloud, so relieved my fears were unfounded about what he was doing. He was running, that was all.
Cloud stood there, looking in the water, breathing hard in and out, seething with anger and fear. I approached slowly. “Aren’t you afraid of me?!” he shouted.
“Why?” I asked. “You’re the one who ran away. You’re big, that doesn’t mean you’re dangerous.”
“I love Full Bright, I love her more than my own life, I would never hurt my wife- she’s the only thing keeping me sane- alive even. I belong to her and her to me.”
“I know Cloud- and Rarity didn’t mean to say you were cheating, she didn’t know what was going on. You just heard her wrong. I’m not going to blame either of you. You weren’t crying so she didn’t understand the context, it’s a weakness of how you deal with things. You have to admit that.”
“Of course I admit that. And when someone cries too much, you get fatigued and don’t take them seriously, what’s your point?”
“That we all need to think. That’s my point. I was concentrating too much on one thing, crying, when that alone is meaningless. Your mind was lost in your own pain so you didn’t understand what Rarity was saying because you have so few outlets for your emotions- look if crying doesn’t work we have to find another way… I don’t know. But there are ponies crying doesn’t help. I can see that now. I guess… I guess thought would be a big part of the solution, ya know?” he sat down, closing his eyes. I wasn’t sure if that meant he was listening but I went on. “If your friends thought to offer help, maybe you wouldn’t feel so alone. Maybe you should have asked- did you?”
“No… I guess I didn’t.”
“I get that it’s hard to think when you’re hurt, I don’t blame you, but maybe we both learned something here.”
“What would you know about this kind of pain?”
“We all know about it Cloud, we all experience it. We all experience death. I had a little brother once. Once.”
I flew over to him and put my wing on his back again. He opened his eyes and just stared into the water. Finally he smiled.
“What are you thinking about?”
“I lectured you, yelled at you, scared you, basically called you an idiot-“
“Not really-“
“Kind of. I didn’t give you what you wanted at all. And yet, here you are. Trying to help someone you only kinda know, just because you know he needs you. If Starshine were still alive, I would want her to grow up to be like you.”
I gave a weak chuckle. “You love your wife with all your soul, you clearly felt the same for your little girl, you’re big, but you’re good. I wouldn’t mind if Sunset had turned out like you.”
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nice Far Cry 3 reference
7779205 Have to admit I don't know how I referenced that.
...It legit makes me sad that there aren't more views on this story...
7795616
Not a lot of ways to market it and without more chapters, that's how it goes. I am planning a new full story about a conflict surrounding the gender rights debate, but that's gonna be very different from this one. Stay tuned I guess.
7786380
The definition of insanity is used in Far Cry 3. It’s not actually from that game, of course, it’s just a well-known time it was quoted.
This story makes me think of Inside Out, specifically a fact about human psychology that the film references. The value of sadness to the human animal, essentially, is that expressions of sorrow trigger sympathy in other people, and that encourages them to go to someone in pain, to help them. Crying is usually seen as the most obvious social signal that someone’s sad and needs help. But in Cloud’s case, crying never achieved that effect for him; he just got laughed at for it. ‘Boys don’t cry’, and all that bullshit. That’s a natural human instinct, comforting a fellow human in pain, that’s not working as it ought to.
He naturally turns to other ways of expressing pain, which for him sometimes means lashing out. And of course, that gets fear instead of sympathy from Twilight and just makes it worse. You’re not as likely to get the help you need when your expression of sadness scares people, but he doesn’t seem to have a choice, does he? What I get from this is a) It’s harmful to mock a man for crying instead of helping him, and b) it’s important to remember that someone might be trying to express their pain or ask for help, even if it doesn’t look that way.
You can see those points being made in the show, too. When AJ goes missing, Big Mac tears up, and it isn’t treated as a joke. In fact, I think almost every male character has had a crying moment that was treated seriously. They skirt the line with Shining Armor, he’s had a crying joke at his expense a couple of times, but at least they were always supposed to be happy tears; he was never mocked for hurting. I always appreciated that. Or take Dungeons and Discords: Discord is in pain over being lonely without his one friend, and he reacts by being a jerk to Spike and Big Mac all night. This of course makes them mad and results in them kicking him out, which has taken the problem of his loneliness and just made it worse. It takes the two of them realizing ‘Okay, he’s being an antisocial jerk ... but he’s being a jerk because he actually really needs friends right now’ and setting aside their anger to reconcile with him.
I like this story. They talk in circles a bit, and the writing could be hard to follow, but the story itself is good. Very poignant, and very pony.
8220047
You’re sort of getting it. You’re making a mistake many people not born male make. What’s wrong with men isn’t that they’re not women. Let’s see, how many dogs can cry for longer than about a minute? Yet people comfort their animals when they see a change in behavior that suggests sadness. Hell, animals do so for each other and again, many of them, if they cry at all, only do so for short periods of time. Crying isn’t the only expression of sadness. How about hanging your head, going silent, drastic changes in behavior, becoming grumpy, or even, like in Cloud’s case, saying out loud “my daughter is dead” so you know what’s going on? He said it a few times, if someone didn’t care when he wasn’t crying, they wouldn’t spontaneously care if he did. His experience with his dog was an example of how he knew that was true. Studies have been done, when a child or a woman cries, a natural draw occurs that doesn’t happen for men, at least, not on the same level. I’m going to say something that needs to be said that a LOT of non born men need to hear and I hope you think about it. “This is how I was born, and I wasn’t born wrong.”
His friends didn’t care- which his admits, probably means they’re not really his friends and his only real friends are Rainbow Dash and his wife. Rarity, however unintentionally, made a different point. While the way men deal with pain is often just part of what they are, it IS harder for those not involved in their lives to tell when something is wrong and that IS a weakness in how they deal. Look up “rumination”, it's a very serious problem that can come from how women deal with grief and yet, I’m not gonna say, “a woman’s problem is that she’s too focused on feelings”. How you grieve is part of what you are and many psychologist will tell you, it’s not something you can just change.
I really liked this one.
I’ve always found that not crying frequently nuked a lot of self-expression for me, in a sense. Especially when other signs of frequent grief and depression (which certainly has got to do something about the not crying thing) were in full force, and no one really cared, or very few people did.
It also ended up being one of the more masculine qualities I have, especially as a kid. I honestly think a lot of it stemmed from the really bad stigma of “boys don’t cry” and that it’s something I must have internalized more and more to the degree that it’s one of the more obvious ways I feel fucked up. Somehow people being more willing to show disgust at “the weird girl who doesn’t cry” was a very bad way of trying to untangle some of the old gender dysphoria for young me. Definitely not a good thing.
I love the point you make about just how much the other obvious signs of sadness are ignored, though. It’s something applicable to anyone of different ages, sexes, genders, or sensitivity.
Loss is...
the most cruel teacher..
Our experiences shape us, our expectations rule us but our phantasy is where we gain our freedom..
and I wont let anything but me rule myself.
J