I read. I write. I edit. I Twidash. But above all else, I'm just a regular guy. Shoot me a PM if you have a question.
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Time has come once again for Princess Twilight Sparkle to band together with her friends and save Equestria from another threat looming on the horizon. However, when she sends for help from the Element of Harmony, she gets a response she'd never even considered before:
No.
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Ooooh, Sunbutt just got burned.
i fucking loved this! the only thing that would have been better is if all the elements were there to tell her off. is there going to be a sequel?
I like this. I really do.
But I can't help wondering...what about Celestina's side in all this? People seem to go on about how much of a manipulator Celestial is and are quick to point out her faults, but what if there is more to it than that? Why can't Celestial be the benevolent leader she's meant to be?
Hmm -- are you that certain? AU is for when things have not followed canon -- this is 100% canon. The only thing that is different is Twi finally had enough, not for herself, but for her friends.
Thing is Celestia tipped her hooves here. If it were NOT something she could deal with herself, she would have used the argument of "Smooze is destroying Manehattan and lives are being lost every moment you do not act" instead of "You are making a mistake throwing away your destiny."
Thing also is, the former argument probably would have worked with Twilight.
Celestia isn't trusting Twilight here and it is exploding in her face. Twi has some grand destiny -- TELL HER.
Does the very existence of the elements actively draw opponents to face them?
Celestia could have also used the argument -- Twilight, I am tired. Yes for 1,000 years I was able to hold things together. But you know -- I couldn't even hold off Chrysalis when the time came. I am used up. Luna is not ready to handle this level of problem and I was going to retire.
But no.
Hm. I like it, but... what now? Some new group of ponies? Do the Elements choose their bearers? Does Celestia? Could Celestia really be manipulating the Six into it, sacrificing the dreams and aspirations of six for the lives and well-being of many, protecting the kingdom at any cost?
Or is Twilight being unnecessarily grouchy?
Or, could the myths of Trollestia be true? Is this all for her sick amusement?
I dunno, but It keeps me up at night.
Weren't the Elements sacrificed to restore the Tree of Harmony? Or is it part of the AU that they weren't sacrificed?
Either way, this was an interesting take on what Twilight would do after all this time. Kind of a fun when you think about the old "if you truly love something, you have to set it free" angle. Makes you wonder how much Celestia really loves Twilight
...Huh, so even her basic decencies will not allow her to try to save the others. She won't even TELL the others? Won't let them make their choices? Now who's taking other freedom of choice, Twilight Sparkle?
It's funny, I never thought Twilight saving Equestria was doing it because it was an order from Celestia, just because she wanted, you know, to help. Like when Discord showed up and messed up the weather, she didn't wait until after Celestia had told her to look into it. And really? Tirek? Twilight was bothered that Discord was asked to take care of it instead of her. And the others all suddenly have aspirations to move out of Ponyville but can't. What's with that? Applejack wants to see the world? Huh... okay, I guess? Rainbow Dash refuses opportunities for the Wonderbolts but not the whole academy training deal? Fluttershy isn't already a veterinarian? Pinkie Pie wants to move out of Ponyville away from all her friends?! What?!
Incidentally, I have no trouble buying the Rarity thing.It just seems... shoed-in.I get it, alternate universe, but even then it doesn't sell it. The whole thing is just a two thousand words accusation thrown at Celestia with no real weight to me. Sorry, Author.
This I like
I really, really loved this. Any chance of a sequal? I feel like there's a lot to explore here.
I can see why this was written, and I enjoyed it for that reason. I'm getting tired of Celestia doing absolutely nothing useful in protecting HER country. I might actually like to see her do so for once, just like Twilight pointed out.
And then King Sombra destroyed the world. The end.
Celestia took care of Equestria alone for 1000 years. I'd say she doesn't pass off her responsibilities lightly
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I quit."
"Well, fuck."
Is it wrong that I'm laughing" I feel like I shouldn't be laughing.
Not bad, an epilogue would seal the deal for me though
Thand seems a bit ridiculous, I'm not quite sure what to think in all honesty.
I'm really tired of all the hate Celestia recieves for these kinds of reasons, and I also feel that a story should never exist that's based on a negative feeling like this for a fictional character, just to hate on them, even if it IS a "what if" deal.
Now, if you had explored Celestia's side of the story, and made a determination of who is more so in the right because of that, it would be a different story.
Other than that, I feel like this piece isn't that great, I'm sorry. I really do normally enjoy your stuff.
ok. nice first chapter. still missing a prologue and an actual story. (Ok, maybe it doesn't need to be quite as long as the one airstream wrote on this subject...)
IIIIIIIIIIII like it!
4890946
4890957
4891353
I'm not writing a part about Celestia's side of the story. I purposely left her reasoning blank to encourage this kind of thinking about why she does what she does when her actions are cast under the light of this story. it's up for you to decide who was in the right.
4891038
Applejack's reasoning for wanting to travel is explained when Twilight talks about how they'll be remembered. Rainbow Dash joined the academy, but that was only for what, a week or two? And she wasn't even that far away. if she were int eh actual flight squad she'd be doing shows all over Equestria, and possibly even in other countries. You remember when Fluttershy stole Philomena? I think it's pretty clear she's not actually a vet. Pinkie Pie can make friends with anyone anywhere she goes, and she wants to spread happiness and joy, not just inside Ponyville.
As for Twilight now taking away the choices for her friends, that was entirely intentional. I wrote it this way, without Celestia really getting any solid arguments in, to provoke thought about what her reasoning is, and who's doing the right thing, if either of them are. I also like to think that, despite this, Twilight still trusts Celestia, and believes that even without her and her friends Celestia will be able to save lives. It's not supposed to carry weight, the weight is supposed to come from the reader wondering who was right and thinking about it. It's the first tie I've written anything like this, so it's entirely possible I just screwed it up.
4891017
No, the Elements were still sacrificed. I just refer to the group as the Elements because even without the actual necklaces they still represent the Elements, and it makes more sense than calling them the Mane 6.
4891164
4891440
4890877
Sorry guys; as of right now there's no sequel even intended for this. I want to leave it as it is for a little while. I may revisit this one day, but it probably won't be with the sequel everyone wants.
Suck it up Celestia you only beamed Chrysalis a bit. Pony up and stop depending on Deus ex Machinas to do your job.
I swear to god fics like these are the reason i hate bronies portraying her as goddess her and her sister.
4891533
Fair enough. I can understand that, and I wasn't trying to imply that you absolutely should write Celestia's side; those were just my feelings on the matter. I'm using a phone to type so I'm not as articulate as I normally like.
This could sound a bit contradictory, but should also say that I did enjoy enjoy the idea itself, of that conflict of mentor and pupil, the latter feeling herself used, and I can't ultimately dislike it. I just wasn't a fan of the execution.
4891533 But the way you write it only makes the Mane Six come across as friends PURELY because the Elements are needed, and if not for that, they would go their separate ways without looking back. That's what so strange and contrived about all six itching to leave Ponyville to accomplish whatever dreams of greatness they have. It sends me the opposite message of what the show is about, especially what the season four premiere meant (that it was NOT the Elements that bound them together).
Look, their dreams were thrown at us with no build-up and with little basis in canon. Applejack wants to write an encyclopedia? Really, writing a book about crops, THAT'S AJ's dream? Fluttershy wants to be the greatest veterinarian mind to ever live? She wants to be a famed vet? Even saying that Pinkie wants to be friend with everyone, at least the previous two are really a stretch, I just don't buy it. I've never had the feeling that either AJ or Fluttershy had that kind of ambition, ever.
I felt none of your sentiments on how Twilight might still respect Celestia. No trust, no affection for her whatsoever, just a bitter ball of resentment, half of which looks written out of nowhere.
One minute ago, Twilight was saying that Celestia had worked for a thousand years for the good of the country, but NOW it's her being a lazy bitch? What???
Except continuing to be the Elements of Harmony for the good of everyone else IS a choice in itself, and she denies it times and times again. It reeks of hypocrisy. I'm not thought provoked in who is right or wrong, I feel that this story portrays Twilight herself as a bitter, resentful, ungrateful and selfish mare.
I'm afraid the execution was not up to par with the idea.
4891730
Not person trust, rather a trust to do what she's already been doing without the Elements. She says that she thinks Celestia should be able to handle it. She says that Celestia should be able to stop anypony from getting hurt or dying.
And whether or not you got the feeling they had these dreams in the show is not any kind of proof - aside from Dash, the show never once goes into any kind of detail about any of their aspirations in life. Why can't AJ want to write a book about farming? I mean, it's her life; it's what she does every day. What's so unbelievable about it? Is it because she's the stereotypical farmer who doesn't have enough brain cells to read? What about her time in Manehattan? "Because I don't think they would" is not a logical argument. I'll be the first to admit I don't think any of them would have these dreams in the show, but int he show none of them really even have dreams, again aside from Dash. And you also have to remember that when Twilight said these things, it was Twilight saying them. I doubt highly Fluttershy would claim to be the greatest vet or that AJ would call it an encyclopedia. Ask yourself why AJ went to Manehattan when she was young. Ask yourself why Pinkie left the rock farm. They've already left places and been to places, is it so hard to believe they might want to do so again? AJ left for Manehattan to see the city, and that could easily evolve to seeing the world. Pinkie left the rock farm why? Well it's never explained, but I like to think it was to spread her usual brand of un-controllable joy.
No, I don't make it sound like they'll stop being friends when they start achieving their dreams. i make it sound like that's what they think will happen, and it's an incredibly common fear when anything like this happens. When you put physical distance between yourself and others it's only natural to feel you'll also grow emotionally distant.
You should have caffeine more often. This was good!
4891849
And in the end all of Equestria was reduced to a millenia of misery at the hands of an insane eldritch abomination, and Twilight was forced to into to escape the fate which befell the other Princesses, which was for the best, as every intelligent being in the land, including her own friends, hated her and cursed her name for allowing Equestria to fall.
Horribly out of character. Also, pretty silly considering that Celestia told Twilight "you'll play your part" in direct response to Twilight complaining about not having anything important to do.
As for Celestia constantly foisting responsibility for disasters off on Twilight, yeah, she often does that. But she doesn't do it because she's horrible or lazy; she does it because she knows that she can't be everywhere at once, and she can't do everything herself. By carefully guiding, shepherding, and encouraging the growth of outstanding young ponies, she raises champions and fosters sentiments of strength and self-reliance that no amount of babysitting from an all-powerful immortal alicorn could ever achieve.
Twilight comes off as a petulant, whiny teenager here, going straight to the self-righteous fit before even attempting to have a rational discussion. No, apparently Celestia did not know about the Elements' aspirations, and fears regarding the importance of their roles - did you ever wonder if maybe, that's because you never bothered to tell her?
4892078 I'm not looking for a debate/argument, as I just wanted to point out, and make sure that you knew, that it (the story) WAS tagged AU.
4891533 I'm glad I read the comments before writing saying that I would be interested reading more in this universe. But it did what I think it was that you wanted it to do: provoke thought!
A bit too.... angry, I think. Even if Twilight had this sort of doubts, and even if they are valid points, that doesn't change the fact that she holds Celestia in enormous respect. Plus, she's not the type to suddenly snap and fly into a rant like this. She has never displayed even a little resentment over being Celestia's chosen champion, but if she felt that way I think she would have brought it up in a more collected and civil manner in the hopes of coming to reasonable solution.
Basically, this doesn't sound like Twilight talking to Celestia. It sounds like you ranting at Celestia through Twilight.
For that matter, even if Celestia may be slightly mischievous or even manipulative, she has never been portrayed as unreasonable or dominating. For all we know she may have a very good reason for entrusting the fate of Equestria to Twilight and her friends.
In fact, that's probably why this story rubs me the wrong way so much: You don't even give Celestia a chance to defend herself and justify her actions. That she is wrong and Twilight is right is a foregone conclusion to you, with nothing in the story to back that up.
4892111
AU doesn't work that way. An AU story is where you explore an alternative continuity as a central theme. It is not a carte blanche for ignoring canon and misenterpreting established characterization.
Alright, I have been going through this in my mind for a bit so here: What twilight did was a grave choice. Celestias guard cannot do shit! She basically said: 'No, I'm not going to be your nuke anymore, use your damn other playthings instead...' Celestia doesn't have the resources to do so. Equestria is under attack again and she says to use her horrible army? This is all about how Celestia is a manipulator, but I'm seeing this politically. Without the elements they have the GREATEST chance to actually lose this time. She doesn't have time to send out messages for neighboring countries because the'll most likely decline because they might simply not like the ponies. Luna may be of help but the are only two gods, what if they come out to THE WHOLE PLANET wanting to downgrade the ponies? Twilight doesn't even know what their up against! Tirek, Sombra and The Changelings might be back too! And you know what? The thing that saved them all straight up said no.
Celestia even said that PONIES WERE DYING FOR GODS SAKE! I really hope there will be a squeal because I would SOOO want for Celestia to say this instead of the sappy 'You can do this!' manure. Again, Ponies are dying. whoever or whatever is attacking isn't playing. Discord was mere jokes, Changlings only captured, so did Sombra, Tirek only took away magic. but never, EVER, did they kill. So far as I know anyway, even if Twilight does have a choice of this matter, She could ultimately cost her whole of a species and die.
Make more of this... It just got sad in here...
Very similar in vein to my own "Parting Words." Of course it eventually panned out that my version of Celestia was not the omniscient chessmaster she seemed, nor had she controlled Twilight's life so much as she'd taken out plans for every possible contingency... and that her REAL plan, in part, was to make Princesshood moot so that they could ALL pursue their destinies.
To those who say "But twilight was going to let ponies DIE"--- that seems more what CELESTIA was doing, isn't it? Despite being vastly more powerful and experienced than Twilight, she was continually dumping the fate of the world on her student's mortal shoulders, rather than getting off her cake-fed arse and dealing with it herself. Even to the point of using one terrible crisis as some sort of finishing exam!
4892549 I had a feeling you'd be weighing in on this one, RealityCheck. I upvoted it, given my own distaste for Celestia's seemingly endless manipulations, but it looks like a lot of downvotes may be headed its way...or so the comments imply.
4892403
Funny story, actually. I know a lot of people here will assume I wrote it so Twilight was in the right, and that in my mind she is in the right, but to be perfectly honest it's completely the other way around. Twilight is so clearly in the wrong here it's not even funny. However, this is a discussion that, in my mind, needs to happen between the two of them. For the reasons highlighted in this fic. They need to sit down and figure out how much responsibility should be put on their shoulders, and how much they should be sacrificing for this.
4892549
I confess to having not read... anything from you. However I have to admit I'm planning something eerily similar to what you're describing here, with a couple big differences. Public demand and the response I've gotten on this have made me decide to change this to incomplete and add another chapter or two to it.
4892632
Let the down votes come. I expected them, what with the topic I did this on and the way I wrote it.
4892860
Hm... I don't think this is completely OOC for Twilight. We know when she gets flustered she can become unpredictable and loud, just look at Feeling Pinkie Keen and Lesson Zero. It seemed to me that she was trying to remain civil in the beginning by being snippy, but the pressure of telling Celestia "no" wore her down until she was a screaming mess.
I don't think Twilight's wrong, though neither is she right. She's prioritized her life in a way that's disappointing to other people, but they're her priorities to make.
But I'm not saying this is a flawless story, it's a bit hamfisted and preachy, and I resent the simplicity of Twilight's perspective. It'd be more interesting if she did feel guilty about ditching her former subjects, or if this were a longer story and we later saw Twilight ruminating her actions and her broken friendship with Celestia.
Thing is, I don't think this is...too out of character. I mean, yes, this would never happen in the show, but the feeling I get from the story is that this is something that has been festering inside Twilight for months, probably longer given that she's known her friends were giving up their dreams for ages, and no one has helped her get over it because she hasn't told them. She probably would regret this eventually, but at the moment, I see this more as the first screaming match in an argument that should have happened sooner.
Her arguments contain just enough logic that her anger and betrayal fuel mind can twist it into being the only possible outcome, and we've seen Twilight do similar leaps in logic before.
Personally, I think she'd regret it the moment there is any actual proof that there is a danger. Think about it. Right now, all she has is Celestia saying there is a danger, its all theoretical and considering Celestia is the focus of her ire, disregarding what she has to say makes sense when your really emotional. The second it becomes real, I doubt Twilight would remain on the sidelines.
4893186
Hey! Someone finally got what I was trying to convey with this! You get a gold star!
(Insert a picture of a gold star here because I'm too lazy to find one)
Recent developments have made it so that this story will be continued, and what you're saying ehre plays a big part in the coming chapter.
There should be a comma after 'Celestia', not a period.
I suggest that you put the letters in italics. It's common for authors to put letters in italics, and it also looks better, although that might just be my opinion:
Also, I would recommend using something more descriptive than 'Equestria has a problem' in the letter to Twilight, such as:
No means no, huh? Sounds like somepony's tired of being a doormat!
Iron Will's Assertiveness Training worked for Princess Twilight...imagine what it will do for you!
As an introductory gift, Iron Will will throw in an E-Z Bake Oven! Call now, goats are standing by!
I'm sorry but this chapter ruins the story, the first chapter leaves it shrouded in mystery on what they were need for not to mention they don't have the elements, they would be helpless against a dragon attack, not to mention how many plot holes it makes
4893601
The point of this fic was not the mystery I lef the first chapter in, but rahter the discussion on who was int he right in the first chapter. That is not at all ruined by this chapter.
No, they don't have the actual Elements anymore, but they have that rainbow-power whatever they got from that box-seed-thing, and last time there was a dragon the M6 were sent to deal with it.
One who makes claims without evidence has no ground to stand on. What plot holes? I'm fairly certain I was careful about that.
4893610 for example magic does not effect the flames, can't they just levitate a lake ABOVE the fire and release the spell or use a spell AROUND it to cut off oxygen?
Look I still like the first chapter and I'm staying faved for it so you don't need to delete the chapter but I personally don't like it.
4893622
Umm.. if you don't mind me asking, how is that a plot hole? Did I ever say that that couldn't happen? That being said, it can't; the fire is too big for a field to contain it and cut off the O2, since it can be seen all the way from Ponyville, and how strong would that unicorn have to be to lift all that water? Not to mention that much water would end up causing a lot of damage, and risking the lives of anypony in the area.
4893622 Or the pegasus could start a rainstorm over the fire. Also, I sorta agree with what you said about the chapter being a bit disappointing in comparison to the first. For me, though, it was more due to Twilight taking all the blame for the attack, and that mostly for one reason, when the paper said 'where were our heroes' I ended up thinking 'yeah, but where was your super powerful sun, or moon, alicorn that could easily defeat a random dragon' and then Celestia teleports in and essentially says 'you know all those people that died, yeah, that is ALL because you refused to do something I asked you to do' while completely ignoring the point raised in the previous chapter of 'why didn't you do anything' in order to avoid responsibility and continue to use Twilight as a pawn.
In the end, I suppose that the feeling this story gave me ended up being that Twilight can never stop being Celestia's pawn, which is kinda in opposition to the story I thought I would be reading based on the title, summary, and first chapter.
4893610 By the way, in the first chapter you wrote gimps when I believe you meant glimps. Just a minor mistake so figured you would want to know.
4893656
Fires can survive rain. It's not that hard, big fires to it all the time in real life.
But more importantly
Crap.
This is the wrong version of the chapter. I added something after this that says Celestia had teleported from the city, leaving Luna in charge of organizing the rescue operation and such.
I gotta go fix that real quick.
I wasn't sure about the first chapter... But the second? Yeah, that pulled it right back. A very harsh lesson to learn... but when you consider your feeling to be more important than other people's lives... that is when evil florishes. Because, at the end of the day, that is what evil IS: selfishness guised in some form, where you are placed above all others (you, your ideals, your goal... whatever).
Especially worth noting, since it made this more than the usual "teh authority figure tellin' me what to iz alwayz wrong/no-one tells me what to do" schick you often see (that annoys the CRAP out of me), into something far more genuine. Not something you see often, when you see the protagonist actually frack it up REALLY good and proper and actually seethe results of her actions. (I'm harping on Twilight here, since while I agree Celestia could handle things a bit better sometimes - and ESPECIALLY here (why in her own name did she just not say "giant dragon attack?"), I thought Twilight was more egregiously wrong.)
Excellent job.
Not what I was expecting - I was more expecting some sort of humour - but worth it anyway. (Actually, I was expecting pretty much exactly how the events played out in the end, only I had expected them to be played for laughs).
4893663 I'd been thinking more along the lines of the rain being started before the dragon got a chance to breathe fire, since Celestia knew about it in advance, and then keeping the rain going to reduce the chances of a fire starting/spreading as much as it would without it. Mixed with other firefighting tactics the collateral damage would be minimal, especially considering Celestia knew about it before hand and could convince civilians to evacuate. The attack seems like it was very poorly countered or prepared for considering how dangerous a single dragon would be to those trained to fight as well as an extremely powerful alicorn, a large number of dragons working together would be more understandable since they could have some occupy Celestia and the guards while the others attacked the town. I suppose I just don't like the tone for the ending when it feels like there was so much that could have been done that wasn't though that is, admittedly, just me and how I look at things. It is a well written and thought out story but it just wasn't for me, I guess. Sorry.
4893656 or jam a poison syringe down its throat while under a protection from fire spell, just because you can not magic directly on it doesn't mean you can't use magic at all against it
4893663 also why didn't celestia didn't send a letter to her asking her to help join the civilians in putting out the fire instead of wasting time talking to her while that fire is stil going?
4893637 that ALICORN could raise the sun, I think a pond would be easy, and it would still do less collateral damage then fire
Changeling invasion.
If they don't instantly forgive her when everything is explained and everyone has had a change to cool off, then they're jerks.
Also, in retrospect...a dragon attack? Really? Excusing Fluttershy, considering the Elements had been given back, what did Celestia expect the mane 6 to do (well, I guess that depends on how the author interprets the rainbow powers). Only Fluttershy and Twilight could have been of any real use, and Twilight no more than either Celestia or Luna. And if that's the case, Celestia should have just left and gotten Fluttershy. No need for Twilight.
I found this very interesting. I'd love to see what would happen if this ever came up in the show.