A thousand year absence from the world would be disorienting for anyone, but when your job is Head of State, understanding how society has changed during your interregnum is vital. Princess Luna, banished in the age of the longboat and the longbow, has returned just in time for the launch of the tablet computer. With the help of her sister, she undertakes to understand the history she's missed and the people she finds herself among, in order to resume the duties of her title.
This story takes the form of a series of conversations between Celestia and Luna that take place months and years apart. It is openly concerned with political ideas and how societies are organised, and not at all concerned with monsters and magic beyond the conceit of immortal monarchs. The Alternate Universe tag is there because I will be ignoring every single one of the thousand year catastrophes that occur in the show after the Nightmare Moon crisis, the retirement of the Princesses, probably the presence of any other Princesses, and anything else in the show I feel like ignoring, because I find them irrelevant to the themes I want to cover.
In short, if you wanted The Audience with ponies, I got you covered.
This story can be considered canon to my comic works such as The Sunjackers, and my other associated worldbuilding projects, and uses the same date system as them (ie. roughly matching our own, with the return of Nightmare Moon happening the same year as the episode aired, 2010). May also be your jam if you like Equestria At War, but not affiliated at all.
That is certainly a curious examination
And yeah, ponies totally would've evolved into democracy. Maybe even the best there is in fiction
Ah, just imagine
I've thought along the lines of republic state myself, it is definitely interesting to mull over, and consider why it would or wouldn't work
Ah, Celestia playing politics with her court.
Interesting start
First comment AND first like! And first time politics actually made sense to me, very well done!!
Me and the boys writing a dozen or so pamphlets in a single sitting propagating Lunar Republicanism.
Damn, this realities Robespierre was probably just a successful lawyer who eventually wound up in a mental institution.
Interesting concept. But I imagine that every step of this process, surely the ponies of their time each thought that the system of right now was much better than the systems which preceded it. Which has obvious implications for the system of the current "right now." It's probably not the best, regardless of which system it is.
Also, this seems a bit grounded in the real world. I imagine that having an immortal monarch would vastly change a political landscape. The British love their monarch. Or at least, they loved Elizabeth. who was Queen long enough that people not only grew up their entire lives with the same ruler, people grew up with the same ruler that their grandparents grew up with. It's a stark contrast with the US system for example, where the head of state potentially changes every four years.
Now try to imagine a country with the same ruler for over a thousand years...that's going to have consequences for which there's no real world equivalent. Now toss in the notion that the immortal ruler going back for as long as anyone alive can remember also happens to sustain all life on the planet. What does that do to foreign policy, for example? It maty be tempting to compare this to nuclear weapons, but it goes so much beyond that. Yes, the United States could theoretically drop nukes on Sri Lanka and there would be absolutely nothing anyone could do to stop it.
But in the case of Equestria, the nukes are on a dead man's switch. The princess doesn't have to push a button to destroy a civilization. It takes her pushing a button every day to stop civilization from being destroyed. Suppose she becomes so weary of the scheming nobles and their nonsense that she merely decides to sleep in one day. What then? Even if some few are so single-minded that they continue their selfishness in the face of global annihilation, would Celestia even need to do anything? Or would all the other ponies immediately take action to "deal with" the ponies causing the problems?
It's fascinating to use ponies as a vehicle for examining real world governance. But imagine using ants for this. Does it make sense to imagine ants going to their queen to make demands for political change? Without the queen, no new ants will be born and the entire colony will die. Imagine talking to sea horses about female abortion rights. Imagine telling a praying mantis that women are oppressed.
The basic rules under which ponies operate are different enough that their social and political systems would likely not resemble those of humans.
I love this story. Please right more ASAP.
It's not often that something I read spurs me to look something up to better understand it, but I for the life of me couldn't figure out what "parliament" had to do with owls, so I looked it up. A quick look on Wikipedia tells me about what I already knew: Its a legislative body, but no owls. I check the etymology section, maybe the owls show up in the words origin, but no, the words origins only deal with discourse and debates and negotiations, but still no owls.
Then it hits me: New Lunar Republic. The ponies who conceived of the idea of democracy, inspired by Nightmare Moon, named their ideas after her Night. So when deciding on what to call a representative legislative body, they named it after a group of Night's followers: owls. An old definition of "parliament" in this universe, the one Luna is familiar with, is a group of owls.
I think this is the most bizarre, backwards way I've ever discovered a neat world building detail. Brilliant.
God damn, this is great. Can't wait for the next chapter, i am already curious what they are going to talk about next!
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I don't know if you found it in your research but a parliament is the official name for a group of owls in our world as well. Obviously in our world it comes from the association of owls with wisdom and thus to name a group of them a parliament was after the legislative body but it being the other way round there is interesting.
Ah, I see you are a man of culture political science as well...
As a compulsive worldbuilder and head-canon artillerist, I loved this story and hope you do more of it. But more than that, as someone who's had similar thoughts about how Equestria's monarchy (eventually, dyarchy) evolved, it seems we may be thinking alike on a lot of the details. (Not surprising, since you and I were looking at the same stuff, mine was basically drawn from The Queen, which was based in large part off The Audience.)
And this part?
*Chef's kiss.* That's S-Tier constitutional thinking!
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My research went the way all proper google searches do: I scoured the top 1 link for all of 2 full seconds. I had looked up "parliament" thinking that this specifically might be true, but didn't find that! That is good to know, thank you. I just looked again, and even if I'd checked a dictionary site, I wouldn't have found much better. But being smart enough to search "parliament owl" quickly got me this definition however (on Wikipedia, no less). Guess I should've tried looking harder, so I guess I was actually just ranting some crap out my butt then, I don't know
11553077
Collective nouns can be fun, getting you an unkindness of ravens, a murder of crows, towers or journeys of giraffes¹, skulks of foxes, etc.
Some local variations can be odd however. For instance, in parts of southern Ontario a group of Blue Jays is called a "team".
1: Depending on if they are moving or standing still.
While I'm not necessarily a fan of pony worlds having an identical calendar system to our Earth, this is an interesting concept that I haven't seen before.
Looking forward to future chapters!
One of the more notable (but understandable because kid-show) missed world building opportunities of FIM is the question of how does Equestria's political system work. Maybe it's just my autistic little brain, but I always love reading about these kinds of things. So naturally I was hooked fro the description alone.
And I have to say well done! This fun little retelling of English political history. And I love the way you portrayed Celestia here, ruthlessly clever, and yet benevolent and wise enough to simply step aside when necessary. It seems a lot of people just like to make Equestria into some sort of dystopia (albeit with varying degrees of seriousness), so this was a nice change of pace.
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I've also looked into that.
I found there are even such words describing gatherings of many mythical creatures, too.
Oddly, though, there's no such word describing a gathering of dragons.
Ryuu pointed that one out to me, and professional authors can't seem to agree on a term, either. Peter Dickenson used a "flight", Anne McCaffery used a "wing", and Milla Vane is using just the generic "gathering". Even Ryuu has his several of character (many of the same ones we're collaborating with on in our story) of using the term "squadron of firelizards" very late in their timeline, where they visited McCaffery's Pern.
But while working with him, he came across a Youtube channel where someone had been compiling an awesome selection of epic genre tunes, and he said he realized that "DragonStorm" should be it. (sadly, DragonStorm seems to have shut down all his YT channels)
"Considering how much damage just one dragon, like Smaug, could do, just imagine what effect a cluster of dragons would have on the landscape?" he said. "A 'storm' fits that description perfectly!"
Can openers count, too.
According to Wikipedia, the "Royal We" (in English) dates back to Henry II (12th century) & refers to "God & I". It gradually came to be understood to mean "when a monarch is speaking for the state".
The ponies seem to at least arguably be a theocracy (with at least Celestia being considered divine. However, Celestia at least doesn't seem to use it. Nor does she use The Canterlot Royal Voice.
11553257
Checked my memory & according to Wikipedia, a group of dragons = "a thunder of dragons".
I always figured McCaffrey used "wing" because her groups were primarily military.
One point. There doesn't seem to have been a Magna Carta. (I suppose no battle of Runnemede because Celestia controls the sun.)
Also, the USA has a collective written constitution that all laws must conform to. England does NOT. They just have a bunch of laws.
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I had repeatedly looked at Wikipedia for it, too.
I can only find references of dragons being the cause of thunderstorms, but nothing to indicate that the term "Thunder" applied to a group or collection of dragons. Maybe the ancient people were just too terrified to contemplate the implications.
Still, either "storm" or "thunder" would be appropriate.
I was not expecting to see a discussion of political history on this site. A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
For reasons, not the least of which, Celie doesn't want to break Luna's mind when she stumbles across Rule34.
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Well, the thing to remember: Equestria is neither the USA nor the UK.
Different set of physics laws & different set of political rules.
Doesn't mean similarities can't exist--they're just--different.
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So, BIG question. Does EQ have a specific written constitution that all other laws must confirm to or just a bunch of laws?
Also, the Federal government does not have recall, referendum, or line item veto for bills.
The government in Glen Cook's world lets anyone who wants to coin their own money (as long as the coins meet certain standards. Many nobles do for vanity). Plus each state used to have its own money. (IDK if it's illegal or they just stopped.)
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As I said, there might be similarities, but there are bound to be differences, too.
Some of which could have a profound effect improving the stability of a nation.
Authors here can float all kinds of ideas for those differences, such as rather than allowing legislators to give themselves pay raises whenever they wish (as it is currently allowed in the American Constitution), that such approval instead requires a voter referendum--even going so far as giving the voters three choices of 1) approving, 2) keep their pay unchanged, or 3) even cutting their pay by the same amount they're wanting to raise it by.
Had such a requirement existed in the US Constitution, it could have prevented a certain former senator from making the false claim that he had been the "lowest paid senator when he was first came into office" since there is no "seniority pay" for members of Congress. His unrelenting greed and incompetence could have been checked at the door right from the start. Although, nothing is currently being helped by the fact that a complicit news media refuses to report on what he admitted.
As for the money, funny thing about that. The Constitution requires that only Congress has the power to print money. That's never been changed. However, Congress has NEVER printed a single dollar in America's entire existence.
You're right, it was the states (actually banks within those states) that printed their money, up until about 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. That was when Congress finally awarded ONE bank the delegated authority to print our money.
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Here in Arizona, you do (or did, IDK) have to get a referendum for a raise. They used the argument "You don't get George Washington for $25,000/yr.".
I wrote a letter to the editor "Historically, yes you do. That was Washington's first salary. "
IDK if it still needs a referendum because it's been awhile since I've seen a raise on the ballot.
11553691
Awesome! Good for them--at least for as long as the people could get away with it.
And good for you for at least trying to hold them to account.
But somehow, I doubt the editor ever published your letter.
looks very interesting
11553714
ICR who said "Freedom of the press is important only if you're rich enough to afford a press.".
Over the last 30 years, the internet has changed that. In essence, now EVERYONE has a printing press.
SCOTUS case, New York Times v Sullivan you can sue the author for libel, but the publisher can only be sued if they "knowingly & maliciously" published false information. Poor fact checking isn't enough & stating it as an opinion (not a fact) is usually enough to save you.
Both Fox News & YouTube are in trouble over this (Editors are held to a higher standard).
Oh, & can't wait for Luna to encounter telemarketers.
What a joyous little take on Equestrian history. The left right dialog took a bit to get used to but I enjoyed the characterizations and very historical content.
Truth be told though, I'm a sucker for anything that makes celly look this good.
This was really good!
I'm going to be keeping my eyes on this one, good work.
The back and forth style at the top of the chapter, was that intentional or just a weird glitch? it took me a bit to figure out how to read it.
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The alternating alignment is intentional. Because this story is like 99% dialogue and only contains two characters, I thought this way a little more elegant than endless "said Luna" and "said Celestia".
Equestria as a vast empire that the princess can barely control because it's too big?
Don't see that often.
I'm enjoying this a lot. I don't remember the last time I saw this particular bit of world building - though I'm sure someone somewhere must've. I also like the back and forth style between the characters.
And I didn't think I'd like the alignment style, but the more I read the more it feels like it really works!
You've done a few neat things here and I can't wait to see more.
Wait...
Only 5 players for a game of Risk?
Who the hell does that!?
...is this story supposed to be a metaphorical airing of British national guilt for historical colonialism?
Shetland Islands...absolution of debt...the Falkland islands? Is Sylvania suppose to be...India, I think?
11555346
I think you're being too specific in your analogues. In chapter 1 I was bearing in mind elements of the English civil war, French revolution, American revolution, and the revolutions of 1848. For chapter 2's discussion of colonialism, I had in mind specifics related to Ireland, Scotland, California, Puerto Rico, and yes, India. The idea isn't that the cases discussed in the story are specifically analogous to any given real world events, but more studying the historical processes using a fictional substrate to get the reader to maybe see past their biases a little bit - and also use the fantasy elements to emphasise emotional truths that are otherwise difficult to articulate.
I mentioned this on Discord but for posterity: what are the logistics of Luna being a citizen and being able to vote here lol?
She wasn't even arguably a resident of Equestria when the constitution was ratified (the Everfree forest wasn't even a part of Equestria at the time) and she's definitely not been back long enough to naturalize. It feels like Celestia might just be assuming she can vote but in reality there's an excellent setup for a comedy titled "Luna Registers To Vote" where she's roadblocked multiple times along the way lmao
11555738
The simplest answer is that she has legal status by virtue of being a pony.
11555765
That feels simple but then you have to ask about non-pony citizens. If say, a gryphon escaped from the Void(TM) after a thousand years and were native to Gryphonstone, would they be a citizen?
To say nothing of the potential legal ramifications of Luna showing up and Celestia going, "Yeah so this is my sister who is immortal also and is my equal. She will have as much power as me." This feels like a crisis that you can't really talk yourself out of without an amendment of some sort or a tremendous amount of foresight by the authors of Equestria's Constitution.
11555830
They're not mutually exclusive and there's no reason for this to be an issue at all. Consider the US, for example. If a child is born to two US citizens, that child is automatically conferred US citizenship. Residency and naturalization and so forth are completely irrelevant: they're a citizen by virtue of birth to their parents. It's no great stretch to imagine a similar law in Equestria stating that any child of two pony parents is automatically a citizen. Ergo, all ponies are automatically citizens by law. Sure, "in the real world" there's some paperwork involved, but in a world populated by a bunch of different species' it's probably a lot simpler because you can immediately just look at somebody and see that their parents were ponies...because they're a pony.
In the case of a gryphon it's probably more complicated because you can't do that. With their parents presumably dead and no longer able to sign an affadavit, it might be difficult to prove that they're a citizen, even if the law states that they would be. But for a pony, the biology would make it obvious.
This fic seems to have established that Equestria is a constitutional diarchy with a parliamentary system. All of your assumptions as (presumably) an american living in a democratic republic are immediately out the window. The two princesses are joint heads of state who wield supreme power as a matter of fact regardless of any legal fiction on paper, and in Luna's absence, Celestia has delegated authority to a number of ministers to handle the affairs of government. The diarchy predates parliament. Parliament derives its power from the diarchy.
It would therefore be entirely legal and proper for Luna to walk in and dissolve the entire government in a heartbeat, if she felt so inclined.
@hahatimesforponies
Do I correctly understand the arrangement here?
11555950
Now why would I pass up the opportunity to walk through a really funny bureaucratic mishap as a springboard to talk about jus solis and jus sanguis citizenship law?
I am absolutely loving this.
I wonder if this is inspired by the Irish Easter Rising of 1916. Perhaps it's just me, but I see that Sylvania seems to have parallels with Irish nationalism back in the days of British influence and rule.
That was... a lot more violent than I thought...
Oh boy, immigration. Things are getting even more spicy!
I've said it once and I'll say it a million more. Ponies can be awfully human at times (yes humanity is now a term of insult).
Who made the coverart?
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I did it myself.